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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on June 11, 2021, 05:37:50 PM

Title: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 11, 2021, 05:37:50 PM
So people who had no weapons, had no way of taking over and controlling the federal government, who may have been let in the Capitol by the police, were insurrectionists?  Based on what I have seen so far, there were rioters and trespassers who should be prosecuted (unless they were invited in), but not insurrectionists.  But as we saw with the Russian Manchurian Candidate nonsense, Spygate, impeachment, "assault weapons," "gun violence," etc. we don't let pesky things like actual definitions and facts get in the way of a political narrative. 

New Video Shows Capitol Police Letting Jan. 6 Rioters Inside — And Sen. Ron Johnson Is Demanding Answers
JUNE 11, 2021 By Jordan Davidson

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson is pressuring Capitol law enforcement officials to answer questions about Jan. 6 and why Capitol Police were not prepared to stop people from entering the building.

In a letter to Acting Chief of U.S. Capitol Police Yogananda Pittman, Johnson explained that his team’s review of the video footage from the Capitol riot raised some questions about how law enforcement chose to handle the situation.

First, Johnson explained that more than 300 people appeared to enter the building through the upper west terrace door after it was left ajar by a group exiting the building under the supervision of a Capitol Police officer. Just one minute later, Johnson said the footage shows that the officer, “who was in the vicinity of this door one minute earlier, walked into another hallway away from this door and out of the view of the security camera” while people poured in.

“At 2:35 p.m., five police officers who were not wearing riot gear or carrying any protective equipment, such as shields, arrived at this doorway,” Johnson said, noting that these officers were “blocking people from continuing to enter the building at this location.” “About a minute later, four unauthorized individuals, including two people wearing helmets, pushed past the officers’ line and a surge of people entered the building walking past the officers. These police officers did not appear to take any further action to stop or block people entering the building until a few minutes later.”

Minutes later, the officers formed another line and then engaged in discussion with the group near the door. This conversation was not recorded because the security system did not pick up audio, but Johnson said no one in the group appeared “aggressive or violent.” The officers, however, eventually began to “slowly retreat from the doorway, allowing a surge of people to, once again, enter the building.”

“Security footage then showed an increase of law enforcement officers outside of the building directly in front of this doorway. At 2:47 p.m., law enforcement closed these doors. Over the span of this 14-minute period, it appeared that approximately 309 unauthorized individuals entered the Capitol through the upper west terrace doors. USCP estimated at least 800 unauthorized individuals entered the Capitol on January 6. If that estimate is accurate, it appears this doorway was the entry point for as much as 38 percent of that total,” Johnson wrote.

Not only did Johnson ask if Pittman believes her office’s assessment of the events at those particular doors is correct, but he demanded that Capitol Police answer questions about their actions during the short time period.

“In order to fully understand what happened at the upper west terrace doorway, it is important to hear from the officers that were present at that location. Have these officers filed detailed reports of this incident? Has USCP conducted transcribed interviews with them? If so, I request copies of these reports and transcribed interviews. If not, I respectfully ask for the opportunity to interview these officers,” Johnson said.

He also asked if Capitol police know why the left door to the entrance didn’t appear to be working at first but eventually opened later. “Does USCP know why at approximately 2:26 p.m. an individual could not open the left door at the upper west terrace entrance, but seven minutes later, at 2:33 p.m., another individual could open that same door?” Johnson asked. “Does USCP have any indication that this door was locked at 2:26 p.m. and then unlocked by 2:33 p.m.?”

Lastly, Johnson requested the “security footage of the interior and exterior cameras located near the upper west terrace doors from 2:20 p.m. to 2:50 p.m.” to better assess the situation.

“The American people deserve an accurate and complete understanding of what happened on January 6. To provide that historical record, it is important that all aspects of that day — from the peaceful protests on the Ellipse to the acts of violence in and around the Capitol — are fully and fairly examined,” Johnson explained.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/11/new-video-shows-capitol-police-letting-jan-6-rioters-inside-and-sen-ron-johnson-is-demanding-answers/
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 11, 2021, 09:52:46 PM
This thread is quiet...
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Body-Buildah on June 12, 2021, 02:02:27 AM
It was an Insurrection almost as much as the COVE is a worldwide deadly plaque. LOL.

Libturdz  ::)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Walter Sobchak on June 12, 2021, 07:01:52 AM
Joe Biden is a RAPIST, not a President.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IroNat on June 12, 2021, 07:51:11 AM
Where is Straw?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 12, 2021, 09:43:40 AM
Where is Straw?

With lurker
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 12, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
With lurker

Both in your head it appears.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: ThisisOverload on June 12, 2021, 03:16:20 PM
Imagine if they were all jihadists.

Do you feel the outcome would have been different? ;D
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 12, 2021, 06:15:50 PM
Both in your head it appears.
Not as deep as Trump is in yours.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 13, 2021, 08:15:02 AM
Not as deep as Trump is in yours.

Is that as deep as your head is in Trumpy's ass?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 13, 2021, 08:26:30 AM
Where is Straw?

it's the fucking weekend
don't you have anything better to do ?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 13, 2021, 08:40:00 AM
So people who had no weapons, had no way of taking over and controlling the federal government, who may have been let in the Capitol by the police, were insurrectionists?  Based on what I have seen so far, there were rioters and trespassers who should be prosecuted (unless they were invited in), but not insurrectionists.  But as we saw with the Russian Manchurian Candidate nonsense, Spygate, impeachment, "assault weapons," "gun violence," etc. we don't let pesky things like actual definitions and facts get in the way of a political narrative. 

New Video Shows Capitol Police Letting Jan. 6 Rioters Inside — And Sen. Ron Johnson Is Demanding Answers
JUNE 11, 2021 By Jordan Davidson

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson is pressuring Capitol law enforcement officials to answer questions about Jan. 6 and why Capitol Police were not prepared to stop people from entering the building.

In a letter to Acting Chief of U.S. Capitol Police Yogananda Pittman, Johnson explained that his team’s review of the video footage from the Capitol riot raised some questions about how law enforcement chose to handle the situation.

First, Johnson explained that more than 300 people appeared to enter the building through the upper west terrace door after it was left ajar by a group exiting the building under the supervision of a Capitol Police officer. Just one minute later, Johnson said the footage shows that the officer, “who was in the vicinity of this door one minute earlier, walked into another hallway away from this door and out of the view of the security camera” while people poured in.

“At 2:35 p.m., five police officers who were not wearing riot gear or carrying any protective equipment, such as shields, arrived at this doorway,” Johnson said, noting that these officers were “blocking people from continuing to enter the building at this location.” “About a minute later, four unauthorized individuals, including two people wearing helmets, pushed past the officers’ line and a surge of people entered the building walking past the officers. These police officers did not appear to take any further action to stop or block people entering the building until a few minutes later.”

Minutes later, the officers formed another line and then engaged in discussion with the group near the door. This conversation was not recorded because the security system did not pick up audio, but Johnson said no one in the group appeared “aggressive or violent.” The officers, however, eventually began to “slowly retreat from the doorway, allowing a surge of people to, once again, enter the building.”

“Security footage then showed an increase of law enforcement officers outside of the building directly in front of this doorway. At 2:47 p.m., law enforcement closed these doors. Over the span of this 14-minute period, it appeared that approximately 309 unauthorized individuals entered the Capitol through the upper west terrace doors. USCP estimated at least 800 unauthorized individuals entered the Capitol on January 6. If that estimate is accurate, it appears this doorway was the entry point for as much as 38 percent of that total,” Johnson wrote.

Not only did Johnson ask if Pittman believes her office’s assessment of the events at those particular doors is correct, but he demanded that Capitol Police answer questions about their actions during the short time period.

“In order to fully understand what happened at the upper west terrace doorway, it is important to hear from the officers that were present at that location. Have these officers filed detailed reports of this incident? Has USCP conducted transcribed interviews with them? If so, I request copies of these reports and transcribed interviews. If not, I respectfully ask for the opportunity to interview these officers,” Johnson said.

He also asked if Capitol police know why the left door to the entrance didn’t appear to be working at first but eventually opened later. “Does USCP know why at approximately 2:26 p.m. an individual could not open the left door at the upper west terrace entrance, but seven minutes later, at 2:33 p.m., another individual could open that same door?” Johnson asked. “Does USCP have any indication that this door was locked at 2:26 p.m. and then unlocked by 2:33 p.m.?”

Lastly, Johnson requested the “security footage of the interior and exterior cameras located near the upper west terrace doors from 2:20 p.m. to 2:50 p.m.” to better assess the situation.

“The American people deserve an accurate and complete understanding of what happened on January 6. To provide that historical record, it is important that all aspects of that day — from the peaceful protests on the Ellipse to the acts of violence in and around the Capitol — are fully and fairly examined,” Johnson explained.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/11/new-video-shows-capitol-police-letting-jan-6-rioters-inside-and-sen-ron-johnson-is-demanding-answers/

more LIES and spinning in an attempt to downplay a VIOLENT MOB that attacked OUR CAPITOL in an attempt to subvert OUR DEMOCRACY

Here are some actual facts - you have no fucking clue how many members of the mob had firearms because no crowd member submitted to security screenings or weapons checks by Capitol Police or other authorized security officials. Most of the people who stormed the Capitol were not arrested during the riot itself.   We also know this is a crowd that loves firearms

We can also see WITH OUR OWN EYES that this crowd had many forms or "weapons" and/or used items like flag poles, bats, bear spray, stun guns, etc..

Let's not forget that someone also  planted pipe bombs near the DNC and RNC headquarter
Let's also not forget that one police officer died from a stroke after being sprayed with bear spray and engaging in hand to hand combat and two other officer committed suicide the next day.   

Quote
“I don’t know how you can watch my body-worn camera footage and deny that Jan. 6 was anything other than violent and brutal," Officer Michael Fanone said.

The Capitol assault resulted in one of the worst days of injuries for law enforcement in the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. About 140 officers — 73 from the Capitol Police and 65 from the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington — were injured, the departments have said. They ranged from bruises and lacerations to more serious damage such as concussions, rib fractures, burns and even a mild heart attack.




To make the claim that this mob was unarmed is patently false.  It's a FUCKING LIE by people who want to downplay the amount of violence on this day. 

Attempting to downplay the violence of this day is PATHETIC and DISGUSTING  and ANTI-AMERICAN.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/us/politics/capitol-riot-police-officer-injuries.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-police-letter-january-6-commission-republicans/
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 13, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Where is Straw?


In England @ the G7 Summit  ;D
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 13, 2021, 02:36:45 PM
Is that as deep as your head is in Trumpy's ass?
Apparently deeper since Trump consumes your every thought.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 13, 2021, 05:41:18 PM
Apparently deeper since Trump consumes your every thought.

Apparently not since defending his bullshit is your top priority.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 13, 2021, 10:33:53 PM
more LIES and spinning in an attempt to downplay a VIOLENT MOB that attacked OUR CAPITOL in an attempt to subvert OUR DEMOCRACY

Here are some actual facts - you have no fucking clue how many members of the mob had firearms because no crowd member submitted to security screenings or weapons checks by Capitol Police or other authorized security officials. Most of the people who stormed the Capitol were not arrested during the riot itself.   We also know this is a crowd that loves firearms

We can also see WITH OUR OWN EYES that this crowd had many forms or "weapons" and/or used items like flag poles, bats, bear spray, stun guns, etc..

Let's not forget that someone also  planted pipe bombs near the DNC and RNC headquarter
Let's also not forget that one police officer died from a stroke after being sprayed with bear spray and engaging in hand to hand combat and two other officer committed suicide the next day.   



To make the claim that this mob was unarmed is patently false.  It's a FUCKING LIE by people who want to downplay the amount of violence on this day. 

Attempting to downplay the violence of this day is PATHETIC and DISGUSTING  and ANTI-AMERICAN.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/us/politics/capitol-riot-police-officer-injuries.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-police-letter-january-6-commission-republicans/

No you asshole. I told you months ago and as recently as this week this was what happened.

Fucking “NY Times, CBS, NPR” 😂
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: bhank on June 14, 2021, 07:05:37 AM
It was about as much of an insurrection as fans charging a football field after a game is a violent overthrow of the University. No one was setting up foxholes and digging in with machine guns to hold the capital.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on June 14, 2021, 08:28:19 AM
Where is Straw?
Hopefully, cleaning his yard.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 09:11:01 AM
It was about as much of an insurrection as fans charging a football field after a game is a violent overthrow of the University. No one was setting up foxholes and digging in with machine guns to hold the capital.

swing and miss

this wasn't fans charging a football field (i.e. this weren't random unassociated people in a spontaneous act of violence in reaction to a sporting event)

This was a pre-planned attack by a group of individuals attempting to stop the legal and democratic process of counting electoral votes in an attempt to help THE TRAITOR STEAL AN ELECTION.

They planned ahead of time.  They built a fucking gallows and after they over ran the police and stormed the building they were chanting HANG MIKE PENCE. 

If this had been BLM every single one of them would be sitting in jail right now on charges of attempted assassination

~ 140 police officer were injured, 5 people died and two other officer committed suicide the next day

oh, yeah and someone planted two pipe bombs ...you know just like they do when people storm the field after a football game







Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 09:24:27 AM
No you asshole. I told you months ago and as recently as this week this was what happened.

Fucking “NY Times, CBS, NPR” 😂

LOL - why in the world would you think that I give a rats ass about anything you say

I've told you a thousand times and I'll tell you again.. ..YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON

I wouldn't trust you to walk my dog much less consider your opinion on anything

BTW - you're also a TRAITOR and fucking liar

Since you were so desperate to get me banned why don't you just ignore my posts
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 14, 2021, 09:31:21 AM
LOL - why in the world would you think that I give a rats ass about anything you say

I've told you a thousand times and I'll tell you again.. ..YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON

I wouldn't trust you to walk my dog much less consider your opinion on anything

BTW - you're also a TRAITOR and fucking liar

Since you were so desperate to get me banned why don't you just ignore my posts

Because I’m never wrong cupcake

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 09:44:44 AM
Because I’m never wrong cupcake

you're ALWAYS WRONG and because you're a fucking moron you're too stupid to know it

you are the literal embodiment of the dunning-kruger effect

you're also a phony coach
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 14, 2021, 10:41:37 AM
you're ALWAYS WRONG and because you're a fucking moron you're too stupid to know it

you are the literal embodiment of the dunning-kruger effect

you're also a phony coach

lol....sure cupcake
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: bhank on June 14, 2021, 10:49:24 AM
swing and miss

this wasn't fans charging a football field (i.e. this weren't random unassociated people in a spontaneous act of violence in reaction to a sporting event)

This was a pre-planned attack by a group of individuals attempting to stop the legal and democratic process of counting electoral votes in an attempt to help THE TRAITOR STEAL AN ELECTION.

They planned ahead of time.  They built a fucking gallows and after they over ran the police and stormed the building they were chanting HANG MIKE PENCE. 

If this had been BLM every single one of them would be sitting in jail right now on charges of attempted assassination

~ 140 police officer were injured, 5 people died and two other officer committed suicide the next day

oh, yeah and someone planted two pipe bombs ...you know just like they do when people storm the field after a football game









Most of them walked in carrying flags through open doors. Police were taking selfies with them. I mean seriously we are to believe a man in  buffalo helmet with a spear overran the government?? They didn't bring machine guns they didn't set up sandbags they didn't get into a long protracted fire fight with the government the capital was not under seige none of that happened they literally walked in took some selfies and left. Also fuck Mike Pence his religious right and his controlling mother wife
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
Most of them walked in carrying flags through open doors. Police were taking selfies with them. I mean seriously we are to believe a man in  buffalo helmet with a spear overran the government?? They didn't bring machine guns they didn't set up sandbags they didn't get into a long protracted fire fight with the government the capital was not under seige none of that happened they literally walked in took some selfies and left. Also fuck Mike Pence his religious right and his controlling mother wife

Some Capitol police officer were stupid (most likely they were Trumptards)
You have no idea what weapons they had because almost none were searched or arrested on the day of the event

Anyone who entered the building is being arrested (if identified).  They didn't walk through an open door.  The doors were broken down as police retreated

Also, the bombs, the gallows, the 140 injured officer, the 5 dead people

And of course lets not forget why they were there. 

They were there to stop the legal and democratic process of counting electoral votes in the attempt to stop the election of Joe Biden

That's an insurrection

Luckily for the country most Trumptards are fucking morons but their ineptitude is not a defense or an excuse for their actions.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 11:09:58 AM
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 11:12:10 AM
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.

While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 11:25:43 AM
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

Can you remind us of the BLM riot last summer where 140 cops were injured and 5 people died and they also planted pipe bombs and the next day two of the cops involved committed suicide
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 11:30:20 AM
Can you remind us of the BLM riot last summer where 140 cops were injured and 5 people died and they also planted pipe bombs and the next day two of the cops involved committed suicide

Is that the minimum requirement for a riot?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 11:34:56 AM
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

Media aside, (which is difficult), Was there people in that mob with the intention of setting a new government?  YES!  Did they break in?  YES! Can what they did be constituted as insurrection?  That's for a court of law to decide.  But at the very least some should be charged as so. 

Media aside, (which is difficult), In my mind, these BLM riots are a different animal.  Those people should be charged if they damaged property or broke any laws.

What the media has to say about both incidents is moot.  If they are guilty of anything, sort it out in a court of law.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 11:35:43 AM
Is that the minimum requirement for a riot?

nope
you just said that there were "much more violent BLM incidents over the summer" so obviously you were the one attempting to make the comparison to the events on January 6th

so which BLM was it that was "much more violent" ?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 11:40:12 AM
nope
you just said that there were "much more violent BLM incidents over the summer" so obviously you were the one attempting to make the comparison to the events on January 6th

so which BLM was it that was "much more violent" ?

Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 11:47:31 AM
Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.

I have friends in Portland, OR where they had opened a new retail store in the area in April 2020.  In May, during those first riots, people broke in and stole product and destroyed some displays.  It cost them about $5000 in damages and inventory replacement.  I saw the whole incident on video from the security cameras.  These are independent business owners trying to make a living.  It's crap like this that hurt the core BLM cause opening up to demonization. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 11:49:23 AM
Media aside, (which is difficult), Was there people in that mob with the intention of setting a new government?  YES!  Did they break in?  YES! Can what they did be constituted as insurrection?  That's for a court of law to decide.  But at the very least some should be charged as so. 

Media aside, (which is difficult), In my mind, these BLM riots are a different animal.  Those people should be charged if they damaged property or broke any laws.

What the media has to say about both incidents is moot.  If they are guilty of anything, sort it out in a court of law.

IMO, what the media says about both incidents is not moot, as I believe a dishonest media is more damaging to us overall than the Jan 6th, or the BLM stuff combined.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.

it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 14, 2021, 11:59:18 AM
it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)

Oh wait..you didn’t know about this? Your MSM saviors keeping things from you?



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 14, 2021, 12:01:48 PM
Do statues that BLM/Antifa tore down count?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 14, 2021, 12:04:41 PM
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 12:05:21 PM
It was about as much of an insurrection as fans charging a football field after a game is a violent overthrow of the University. No one was setting up foxholes and digging in with machine guns to hold the capital.

Right?  Someone had teargas and a bat.  Yeah they were really going to takeover the United States government.  lol 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 12:07:09 PM
Oh wait..you didn’t know about this? Your MSM saviors keeping things from you?





you forgot to mention a few things

how many cops were injured
how many people died
how much in property damage (the estimate for the damages to the Capitol are over 30 million and there is no insurance coverage)

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 12:10:52 PM
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.

The only thing that's silly is calling this an insurrection:  "an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence."  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insurrection

Nobody was taking over the United States government.  This is as crazy as the Russian Manchurian Candidate crap.
This was a handful of idiots who broke the law, and some of whom were (according to the story at the start of this thread) let in by the police.   

Anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted.  But it's lunacy to claim someone with pepper spray was going to defeat the United States government, which includes the military, and take over running of the federal government in DC.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 12:11:22 PM
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

"Mostly peaceful" protests. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 12:12:41 PM
I have friends in Portland, OR where they had opened a new retail store in the area in April 2020.  In May, during those first riots, people broke in and stole product and destroyed some displays.  It cost them about $5000 in damages and inventory replacement.  I saw the whole incident on video from the security cameras.  These are independent business owners trying to make a living.  It's crap like this that hurt the core BLM cause opening up to demonization.

Portland, Oregon, where they have been engaging in riots for almost an entire year, with a plethora of violent attacks on a federal courthouse and law enforcement.  Not even a blip on the radar. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 12:12:45 PM
Right?  Someone had teargas and a bat.  Yeah they were really going to takeover the United States government.  lol

and pipe bombs and bear spray and many other forms of weapons

and AGAIN you have no clue how many firearms were there because almost no one was searched or arrested that day but we do know that the people in that crowd love their guns

and yet AGAIN stupidity and ineptitude is not an excuse

you of all people should know that by now







Why did this guy place pipe bombs on the evening in January 5th

It's almost like he knew there was going to be an attack the next day

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 12:31:14 PM
it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)

Of the 5 people that passed, only one was proven to be due to violence, and that was an officer shooting a civilian.

The officer who passed, while tragic, has still not had the details released, although many false claims have been refuted.

Kenosha is an example that appeared to have more violence:

By late August 2020, police jailed 175 people after rioters descended on the city, burned down buildings, vandalized property, and attacked uniformed officers. They seized 20 guns, and drugs were recovered while the city was under a state of emergency.

Quote
The crimes included "arson, burglary, conspiracy to commit theft of narcotics, possession of firearm/ammunition by a convicted felon, battery, criminal damage, and disorderly conduct," the department said Friday.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 12:51:06 PM
Of the 5 people that passed, only one was proven to be due to violence, and that was an officer shooting a civilian.

The officer who passed, while tragic, has still not had the details released, although many false claims have been refuted.

Kenosha is an example that appeared to have more violence:

By late August 2020, police jailed 175 people after rioters descended on the city, burned down buildings, vandalized property, and attacked uniformed officers. They seized 20 guns, and drugs were recovered while the city was under a state of emergency.

175 jailed vs 521 (and counting) charged from the events of  January 6th

the only two people killed in Kenosha were murdered by a kid who had no business being there and was illegally armed and of course is charged with murder

there is 30 + million dollars in damage to the Capitol

what point do you think you're trying to make again?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 01:04:32 PM
175 jailed vs 521 (and counting) charged from the events of  January 6th

the only two people killed in Kenosha were murdered by a kid who had no business being there and was illegally armed and of course is charged with murder

there is 30 + million dollars in damage to the Capitol

what point do you think you're trying to make again?

30 million?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12698554/george-floyd-protests-2billion-damage/

Quote
BLACK Lives Matter protests and "riots" after the death of George Floyd did as much as $2billion worth of damage.

The costs have amounted to the costliest period of civil unrest in insurance history

The point I know I am making is that the media is dishonest, and treated the Jan 6th incident much more differently than the BLM incidents.

This is true, regardless of you attempting to set the criteria that defines it.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 01:27:31 PM
30 million?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12698554/george-floyd-protests-2billion-damage/

The point I know I am making is that the media is dishonest, and treated the Jan 6th incident much more differently than the BLM incidents.

This is true, regardless of you attempting to set the criteria that defines it.

I see, now you want to change your premise and roll a bunch of events together and then compare them to January 6th

BTW - how many cops were injured in all those events that happened over many months

Let's compare that to one FOUR HOUR PERIOD on January 6th

I have a feeling if everything was the same on January 6th except the insurgents were BLM you'd have no problem at all calling it an insurrection

Call it whatever you want

Here is an indisputable fact.  The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.  Those are facts.  We all saw it and we can all watch the videos

Tell me which part of that sentence you dispute ...if any.

Here it is one more time

The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 01:37:07 PM
I see, now you want to change your premise and roll a bunch of events together and then compare them to January 6th

BTW - how many cops were injured in all those events that happened over many months

Let's compare that to one FOUR HOUR PERIOD on January 6th

I have a feeling if everything was the same on January 6th except the insurgents were BLM you'd have no problem at all calling it an insurrection

Call it whatever you want

Here is an indisputable fact.  The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.  Those are facts.  We all saw it and we can all watch the videos

Tell me which part of that sentence you dispute ...if any.

Here it is one more time

The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.

I was using the term riot, and comparing Jan 6th to BLM movements.

All were riots.

BLM's caused far more damage. 

You are attempting to refute it for some reason by taking the event, defining time vs $ damage, vs arrests, etc then trying to find one BLM event that was worse vs your stats.  It's stupid, and doesn't refute the point.

They were both riots, but the media treated them much differently.



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 01:58:31 PM
I was using the term riot, and comparing Jan 6th to BLM movements.

All were riots.

BLM's caused far more damage. 

You are attempting to refute it for some reason by taking the event, defining time vs $ damage, vs arrests, etc then trying to find one BLM event that was worse vs your stats.  It's stupid, and doesn't refute the point.

They were both riots, but the media treated them much differently.

if they were treated differently (from your perspective) maybe it's because they were different

The events of January 6th have never happened before

The sitting POTUS directed a mob to attack the Capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent the winner of the election from being confirmed.  That is a short and concise and factual statement.

The violence that occurred after the George Floyd MURDER is the kind of violence we've seen many many times in this country in response to police violence against mostly unarmed and mostly black men




Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
if they were treated differently (from your perspective) maybe it's because they were different

The events of January 6th have never happened before

The sitting POTUS directed a mob to attack the Capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent the winner of the election from being confirmed.  That is a short and concise and factual statement.

The violence that occurred after the George Floyd MURDER is the kind of violence we've seen many many times in this country in response to police violence against mostly unarmed and mostly black men

They were different for sure......but were still riots.  Just like baseball and football are both sports.

The media did everything they could to give BLM a pass.  They Firey but Peaceful chyron was probably the epitome of the dishonesty.

As for the mob trying to stop the election, I don't really know if they actually thought they could do that.  What was the plan, to sit around indefinitely?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2021, 02:05:31 PM
They were different for sure......but were still riots.  Just like baseball and football are both sports.

The media did everything they could to give BLM a pass.  They Firey but Peaceful chyron was probably the epitome of the dishonesty.

As for the mob trying to stop the election, I don't really know if they actually thought they could do that.  What was the plan, to sit around indefinitely?

why did the mob storm the Capitol?

why did they erect a gallows

why did they have zip ties and stun guns?



Many of them are on record explaining why so I'm sure you can find out if you don't know by now

tell us why they were there
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 03:05:20 PM
The only thing that's silly is calling this an insurrection:  "an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence."  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insurrection

Nobody was taking over the United States government.  This is as crazy as the Russian Manchurian Candidate crap.
This was a handful of idiots who broke the law, and some of whom were (according to the story at the start of this thread) let in by the police.   

Anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted.  But it's lunacy to claim someone with pepper spray was going to defeat the United States government, which includes the military, and take over running of the federal government in DC.

It doesn't matter if the possibility was remote.  Intention plus action is what matters.  Both are present here.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 03:08:49 PM
Portland, Oregon, where they have been engaging in riots for almost an entire year, with a plethora of violent attacks on a federal courthouse and law enforcement.  Not even a blip on the radar.

What, the media not reporting what you think is important?

Imagine that...

I agree with you about our media overall.  It's crap.

Did FOX follow suit and not report it either?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 03:09:42 PM
why did the mob storm the Capitol?

why did they erect a gallows

why did they have zip ties and stun guns?



Many of them are on record explaining why so I'm sure you can find out if you don't know by now

tell us why they were there

They may have had zip ties to prevent the police from using them:

Quote
The fire extinguisher tale was far from the only false or dubious claim that the media caused to circulate about the events that day. In some cases, they continue to circulate them.

In the days after the protest, numerous viral tweets pointed to a photograph of Eric Munchel with zip-ties. The photo was used continually to suggest that he took those zip-ties into the Capitol because of a premeditated plot to detain lawmakers and hold them hostage. Politico described Munchel as “the man who allegedly entered the Senate chamber during the Capitol riot while carrying a taser and zip-tie handcuffs.”

The Washington Post used the images to refer to “chatters in far-right forums explicitly discussing how to storm the building, handcuff lawmakers with zip ties.” That the zip-tie photo of Munchel made the Capitol riot far more than a mere riot carried out by a band of disorganized misfits, but rather a nefarious and well-coordinated plot to kidnap members of Congress, became almost as widespread as the fire extinguisher story. Yet again, it was The New York Times that led the way in consecrating maximalist claims. “FBI Arrests Man Who Carried Zip Ties Into Capitol,” blared the paper’s headline on January 10, featuring the now-iconic photo of Munchel at the top.


But on January 21, the “zip-tie man’s” own prosecutors admitted none of that was true. He did not take zip-ties with him from home or carry them into the Capitol. Instead, he found them on a table, and took them to prevent their use by the police:

Eric Munchel, a pro-Trump rioter who stormed the Capitol building while holding plastic handcuffs, took the restraints from a table inside the Capitol building, prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday.

Munchel, who broke into the building with his mom, was labeled "zip-tie guy" after he was photographed barreling down the Senate chamber holding the restraints. His appearance raised questions about whether the insurrectionists who sought to stop Congress from counting Electoral College votes on January 6 also intended to take lawmakers hostage.

But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building - apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists - rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building.

(A second man whose photo with zip-ties later surfaced similarly told Ronan Farrow that he found them on the floor, and the FBI has acknowledged it has no evidence to the contrary).

Why does this matter? For the same reason media outlets so excitedly seized on this claim. If Munchel had brought zip-ties with him, that would be suggestive of a premeditated plot to detain people: quite terrorizing, as it suggests malicious and well-planned intent. But he instead just found them on a table by happenstance and, according to his own prosecutors, grabbed them with benign intent.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 03:11:38 PM
IMO, what the media says about both incidents is not moot, as I believe a dishonest media is more damaging to us overall than the Jan 6th, or the BLM stuff combined.

I agree a dishonest media is very damaging.  But my point about the media being moot is in the context of proving guilt in a court of law.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
I agree a dishonest media is very damaging.  But my point about the media being moot is in the context of proving guilt in a court of law.

Yes, that is correct in that context.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 03:28:51 PM
It doesn't matter if the possibility was remote.  Intention plus action is what matters.  Both are present here.

Of course it matters.  Nothing was present.  It was literally impossible for some dofus wearing a viking hat (or some idiot with pepper spray) to take down the United States military.  And their action did absolutely nothing to take over the United States government and control the military.  To quote our president:  Come on man.   :)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 04:07:10 PM
What, the media not reporting what you think is important?

Imagine that...

I agree with you about our media overall.  It's crap.

Did FOX follow suit and not report it either?

The media not reporting ongoing domestic terrorism.  Yeah that's kind of a problem. 

I haven't watched Fox (or any other network) since the day before the election, so I don't know what they are reporting, but I know Tucker Carlson and Mark Levin were all over it. 

Remember when a group of BLM/ANTIFA folks took over an entire portion of Seattle and established their own city called Chop?  That was closer to an insurrection than what happened in DC.  But the media is so horrible that I've talked to numerous people who don't even remember what happened in Seattle. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 04:18:29 PM


Remember when a group of BLM/ANTIFA folks took over an entire portion of Seattle and established their own city called Chop?  That was closer to an insurrection than what happened in DC.  But the media is so horrible that I've talked to numerous people who don't even remember what happened in Seattle.

That is a great point.  City blocks were commandeered, barriers constructed, etc.

No big deal.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 14, 2021, 04:20:13 PM
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.
I believe we covered this in another thread here, only one confirmed death that day was that Ashly chick shot and killed by a Capitol Police hiding safely behind a door in a hallway. Your second point about installing a new government is bullshit as we all know that's as likely as a peaceful blm rally. ::)

I assume you then support FBI, CIA, DEA and every other alphabet agency searching and scanning video and pics to fully charge and prosecute the thousands of antifa and blm looters and rioters that have assaulted, stolen and destroyed for the last year and a half in the name of "equality"?

it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)
Your stats are repeated media lies and make believe bullshit, cnn puppet.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Media aside, (which is difficult), Was there people in that mob with the intention of setting a new government?  YES! 
Can you provide a link where more than one or two people said this? I seriously doubt there was any large scale group of people with that intention. You're repeating media bullshit.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 14, 2021, 04:25:54 PM
It doesn't matter if the possibility was remote.  Intention plus action is what matters.  Both are present here.
You keep saying this very straw man like but you haven't provided any sort of link or evidence to show that there was any type of organized attack to take over the government on Jan 6th. Just because you repeat a lie often enough, doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 04:32:42 PM
That is a great point.  City blocks were commandeered, barriers constructed, etc.

No big deal.

Bruh I talked to a highly educated friend from California who didn't know anything about this.  He is deeply immersed in politics, but gets his info from the NY Times, CNN, etc. 

Real journalism is dead.  That's how stupid stuff (like Trump is a Russian agent, insurrection, etc.) gets life, while stories that at a minimum should be investigated get buried (the Wuhan lab leak, Hunter Biden, etc.).  It's quite disturbing.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 14, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Bruh I talked to a highly educated friend from California who didn't know anything about this.  He is deeply immersed in politics, but gets his info from the NY Times, CNN, etc. 

Real journalism is dead.  That's how stupid stuff (like Trump is a Russian agent, insurrection, etc.) gets life, while stories that at a minimum should be investigated get buried (the Wuhan lab leak, Hunter Biden, etc.).  It's quite disturbing.   

The lack of Biden coverage actually changed an election.  There are polls that indicate it.

Trump was doing what he could during Covid to mess it up, and the Democrats were ready to hand it back.

The media and big tech ensured it didn't happen.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 04:47:17 PM
The lack of Biden coverage actually changed an election.  There are polls that indicate it.

Trump was doing what he could during Covid to mess it up, and the Democrats were ready to hand it back.

The media and big tech ensured it didn't happen.

Yes.  I heard about a poll regarding Hunter Biden that found if the story about his Ukraine and China business deals had been covered it would have changed the outcome of enough votes to impact the election. 

I cannot tell you how many "ends justifies the means" discussions I had with people the past four years.  They didn't care if stories were true or false, if individual liberties were being violated, etc., so long as the end result was to harm and eventually get rid of Trump. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 05:18:43 PM
Can you provide a link where more than one or two people said this? I seriously doubt there was any large scale group of people with that intention. You're repeating media bullshit.

I did before back in January.  It was on video, people talking about setting up a new government.  I will dig it up if I have time tomorrow.

"large scale" is a qualifier and subjective. 

People broke in there and had that intention based on their words and actions.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 05:21:23 PM
Of course it matters.  Nothing was present.  It was literally impossible for some dofus wearing a viking hat (or some idiot with pepper spray) to take down the United States military.  And their action did absolutely nothing to take over the United States government and control the military.  To quote our president:  Come on man.   :)

If we are talking intention alone, sure.  But actions say otherwise and what they said indicated intention.  Add the 2 together and I believe we have a legit charge.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
I believe we covered this in another thread here, only one confirmed death that day was that Ashly chick shot and killed by a Capitol Police hiding safely behind a door in a hallway. Your second point about installing a new government is bullshit as we all know that's as likely as a peaceful blm rally. ::)

I assume you then support FBI, CIA, DEA and every other alphabet agency searching and scanning video and pics to fully charge and prosecute the thousands of antifa and blm looters and rioters that have assaulted, stolen and destroyed for the last year and a half in the name of "equality"?

It's weak if you have to cite BLM Antifa and the summer riots to counter my points.

They are 2 different instances.  the January 6th incident is what we talking about here.

If you want to talk about the crimes of rioting, looting and vandalism, we will just agree over and over.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 14, 2021, 05:30:29 PM
The media not reporting ongoing domestic terrorism.  Yeah that's kind of a problem. 

I haven't watched Fox (or any other network) since the day before the election, so I don't know what they are reporting, but I know Tucker Carlson and Mark Levin were all over it. 

Remember when a group of BLM/ANTIFA folks took over an entire portion of Seattle and established their own city called Chop?  That was closer to an insurrection than what happened in DC.  But the media is so horrible that I've talked to numerous people who don't even remember what happened in Seattle.

Are we discussing media coverage and how bias it is?  Or are we discussing whether or not FOX leans left?  Or whether what happened in Seattle is an insurrection? Or how people don't remember Seattle and should?

I think we are discussing whether or not the people involved in storming the capital building on January 6th should be charged with insurrection.

I say some of them should.

Of course they should have a fair trial...
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 14, 2021, 07:27:19 PM
It's weak if you have to cite BLM Antifa and the summer riots to counter my points.

They are 2 different instances.  the January 6th incident is what we talking about here.

If you want to talk about the crimes of rioting, looting and vandalism, we will just agree over and over.
What are your points? Nobody is denying it happened, you have your opinion that there was some sort of "insurrection" that we can disagree on. As far as the number of people actually killed, I believe Grape Apes link clears up most of your confusion.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
Are we discussing media coverage and how bias it is?  Or are we discussing whether or not FOX leans left?  Or whether what happened in Seattle is an insurrection? Or how people don't remember Seattle and should?

I think we are discussing whether or not the people involved in storming the capital building on January 6th should be charged with insurrection.

I say some of them should.

Of course they should have a fair trial...

We should be talking about the story I posted at the start of this thread:  how police apparently let some of those "insurrectionists" in the door.

And we should be talking about whether or not the people who were there unlawfully were trying to overthrow the United States government, and our military, take control of, and run the country.  That's what an insurreciton is.

Here is a link showing who has been arrested and charged so far.  I did an F2 search and it looks like not a single person has been charged with insurrection.  Why is that? 

https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: ThisisOverload on June 14, 2021, 10:57:00 PM
I did before back in January.  It was on video, people talking about setting up a new government.  I will dig it up if I have time tomorrow.

"large scale" is a qualifier and subjective. 

People broke in there and had that intention based on their words and actions.

How would they setup a new government?

You realize this is crazy talk, right?

Who would implement it?

They raided congress to make a statement.

You cannot overthrow the government in that manner.

At least not in America, yet.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 06:44:52 AM
How would they setup a new government?

You realize this is crazy talk, right?

Who would implement it?

They raided congress to make a statement.

You cannot overthrow the government in that manner.

At least not in America, yet.

I agree it was crazy talk.  Just like any crazytalk you might hear at a rally or bar or festival or convention.  But the difference here is there were actions involved. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 06:47:15 AM
We should be talking about the story I posted at the start of this thread:  how police apparently let some of those "insurrectionists" in the door.

And we should be talking about whether or not the people who were there unlawfully were trying to overthrow the United States government, and our military, take control of, and run the country.  That's what an insurreciton is.

Here is a link showing who has been arrested and charged so far.  I did an F2 search and it looks like not a single person has been charged with insurrection.  Why is that? 

https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/

Some of them were let in... so what?  Others broke in.

Is the investigation still ongoing?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 06:48:32 AM
What are your points? Nobody is denying it happened, you have your opinion that there was some sort of "insurrection" that we can disagree on. As far as the number of people actually killed, I believe Grape Apes link clears up most of your confusion.

I made my points plainly.

I don't have any confusion about the number of people actually killed.  I think you might have me mixed up with another poster.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 15, 2021, 08:23:14 AM
https://townhall.com/columnists/stephenmoore/2021/06/15/the-insurrection-in-chicago-n2590997
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Body-Buildah on June 15, 2021, 09:23:24 AM
Pffft, that was mostly peaceful Joe, nothing to see here!!  ::)

--

Thankfully, four reporters at the Chicago Tribune have investigated what really happened in the once great "city that works" and the devastating effects that still are felt. It's harrowing and Pulitzer-worthy material.

Written and reported by Todd Lighty, Gary Marx, Christy Gutowski and William Lee, we urge a full reading, but here are the lowlights:

In just a few days, there were 15 homicides and 53 shooting victims. More than 2,100 businesses were looted, 71 buildings were set on fire and looters stole more than 700,000 prescription pills from drug stores.

Businesses suffered more than $165 million in damages, "though the true cost is certainly much higher."

Mayor Lori Lightfoot had no clue what was coming, and her response was indefensibly feeble. She did not want the National Guard, even as the city burned.


The city's inspector general issued a scathing report, which portrays Lightfoot as woefully unprepared, as were other mayors. Downtown businesses were destroyed.

"I thought, 'I'm a Black-owned business. They're not going to bother me,'" said Howard Bolling, owner of the Roseland Pharmacy at 11254 S. Michigan Ave.

No such luck.

The riots even forced families at the Ronald McDonald House, where parents' sick children are cared for, to flee for their safety. Protesters used hammers to smash windows and doors.

The Ronald McDonald House is a cancer facility.

Here is what is most infuriating. Throughout that first wave of rioting, looting, arson and murder, only about 170 rioters were charged with felonies. It should have been 1,000 or more. Why hasn't Chicago law enforcement looked through the videos and tracked down these violent criminals?

Based on the property damage, the homicides, the injuries and the financial losses to the residents, this insurrection was many times worse than the indefensible actions at the U.S. capital by pro-Trump protesters on Jan. 6.

Why is no one paying attention to and amplifying the Tribune story of what happened in Chicago? Why is no one writing similar accounts of the carnage in Minneapolis, Milwaukee, New York, Kenosha, Portland and Los Angeles? Why isn't the local law enforcement and the FBI hunting down the perpetrators and putting them behind bars? We have video evidence of who they are and what they did. President Joe Biden seems only interested in putting the pro-Trump protesters behind bars.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 15, 2021, 09:50:10 AM
Oh snap.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 11:20:19 AM
Some of them were let in... so what?  Others broke in.

Is the investigation still ongoing?

The ones who were let in should not be charged with trespassing.

I just gave you a link showing everyone who has been charged and not a single person has been charged with insurrection.  Pretty telling. 

If we're being logical, and it's "silly" not to call this an insurrection, then at least some of the hundreds of people charged should be charged with insurrection. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 11:21:42 AM
Pffft, that was mostly peaceful Joe, nothing to see here!!  ::)

--

Thankfully, four reporters at the Chicago Tribune have investigated what really happened in the once great "city that works" and the devastating effects that still are felt. It's harrowing and Pulitzer-worthy material.

Written and reported by Todd Lighty, Gary Marx, Christy Gutowski and William Lee, we urge a full reading, but here are the lowlights:

In just a few days, there were 15 homicides and 53 shooting victims. More than 2,100 businesses were looted, 71 buildings were set on fire and looters stole more than 700,000 prescription pills from drug stores.

Businesses suffered more than $165 million in damages, "though the true cost is certainly much higher."

Mayor Lori Lightfoot had no clue what was coming, and her response was indefensibly feeble. She did not want the National Guard, even as the city burned.


The city's inspector general issued a scathing report, which portrays Lightfoot as woefully unprepared, as were other mayors. Downtown businesses were destroyed.

"I thought, 'I'm a Black-owned business. They're not going to bother me,'" said Howard Bolling, owner of the Roseland Pharmacy at 11254 S. Michigan Ave.

No such luck.

The riots even forced families at the Ronald McDonald House, where parents' sick children are cared for, to flee for their safety. Protesters used hammers to smash windows and doors.

The Ronald McDonald House is a cancer facility.

Here is what is most infuriating. Throughout that first wave of rioting, looting, arson and murder, only about 170 rioters were charged with felonies. It should have been 1,000 or more. Why hasn't Chicago law enforcement looked through the videos and tracked down these violent criminals?

Based on the property damage, the homicides, the injuries and the financial losses to the residents, this insurrection was many times worse than the indefensible actions at the U.S. capital by pro-Trump protesters on Jan. 6.

Why is no one paying attention to and amplifying the Tribune story of what happened in Chicago? Why is no one writing similar accounts of the carnage in Minneapolis, Milwaukee, New York, Kenosha, Portland and Los Angeles? Why isn't the local law enforcement and the FBI hunting down the perpetrators and putting them behind bars? We have video evidence of who they are and what they did. President Joe Biden seems only interested in putting the pro-Trump protesters behind bars.

And that's just one city. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
The ones who were let in should not be charged with trespassing.

I just gave you a link showing everyone who has been charged and not a single person has been charged with insurrection.  Pretty telling. 

If we're being logical, and it's "silly" not to call this an insurrection, then at least some of the hundreds of people charged should be charged with insurrection.

Pretty telling if the investigation is over and everyone who is going to be charged is charged and the charges are final.  Is that the case or no?

If they don't end up being charged with insurrection, I have no problem with that because I am assuming the evidence was measured against what the laws say.

But what I see, behind this computer, in my fake ivory tower, my 64GB of RAM, and my Get Big law degree, is some of those people had pre-meditated intent (based on their comments) and actions that match it.

Should these people be put in prison for the rest of their lives... treated like traitors...  Lined up and shot....?   I don't think so.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 02:07:04 PM
Pretty telling if the investigation is over and everyone who is going to be charged is charged and the charges are final.  Is that the case or no?

If they don't end up being charged with insurrection, I have no problem with that because I am assuming the evidence was measured against what the laws say.

But what I see, behind this computer, in my fake ivory tower, my 64GB of RAM, and my Get Big law degree, is some of those people had pre-meditated intent (based on their comments) and actions that match it.

Should these people be put in prison for the rest of their lives... treated like traitors...  Lined up and shot....?   I don't think so.

I think if there was evidence of an actual insurrection that at least some of the hundreds of people who have been charged would have been charged with insurrection instead of:  "Conspiracy; obstructing an official proceeding; unlawful entry on restricted building or grounds; tampering with documents or proceedings."

Anyone who broke the law should be held accountable.  But calling this an insurrection is on the 9/11 Troofer, Obama was born in Kenya, Trump was a Russian Manchurian Candidate level. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 02:26:26 PM
I think if there was evidence of an actual insurrection that at least some of the hundreds of people who have been charged would have been charged with insurrection instead of:  "Conspiracy; obstructing an official proceeding; unlawful entry on restricted building or grounds; tampering with documents or proceedings."

Anyone who broke the law should be held accountable.  But calling this an insurrection is on the 9/11 Troofer, Obama was born in Kenya, Trump was a Russian Manchurian Candidate level.

lol

Some of those people came in with the intent to set up a new government and actions that matched it. 

Now your argument that the possibility of it being successful is so remote that it's silly to charge them with insurrection and they didn't attack with firearms etc. doesn't take away from the fact that some of did go in there (action) with the intent to establish a new government.     

Not sure about the Trump Russia thing.  Honestly, I  thought it was too stupid to begin with and nothing was going to come of it and as a result never really followed it.

You know how deep I got with birthers and truthers.  Not even close in comparison. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 02:48:34 PM
lol

Some of those people came in with the intent to set up a new government and actions that matched it. 

Now your argument that the possibility of it being successful is so remote that it's silly to charge them with insurrection and they didn't attack with firearms etc. doesn't take away from the fact that some of did go in there (action) with the intent to establish a new government.     

Not sure about the Trump Russia thing.  Honestly, I  thought it was too stupid to begin with and nothing was going to come of it and as a result never really followed it.

You know how deep I got with birthers and truthers.  Not even close in comparison.

I don't see a difference.  What you're saying isn't logical.  Some unspecified person, made some unspecified plan to overthrow and run the federal government and our military, using pepper spray.  I bet you cannot even say that out loud with a straight face. 

Here is the insurrection statute:

"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

No one has been charged with violating this.  Bruh this is tinfoil hat stuff.  Don't get caught up in the narrative.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 15, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
I don't see a difference.  What you're saying isn't logical.  Some unspecified person, made some unspecified plan to overthrow and run the federal government and our military, using pepper spray.  I bet you cannot even say that out loud with a straight face. 

Here is the insurrection statute:

"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

No one has been charged with violating this.  Bruh this is tinfoil hat stuff.  Don't get caught up in the narrative.   

A specified person(s), made comments suggesting premeditation (on video), illegally entered the capital building (along with a mob, which some broke in) making comments that they were there to establish a new government.

Like I said, I am willing to concede this based on a determination of the evidence applied to the law. 

You and I do not have all the evidence for us to review.  I am not a lawyer.  Not sure about you. 

That's why I asked a few times now:

Pretty telling if the investigation is over and everyone who is going to be charged is charged and the charges are final.  Is that the case or no?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 03:22:03 PM
A specified person(s), made comments suggesting premeditation (on video), illegally entered the capital building (along with a mob, which some broke in) making comments that they were there to establish a new government.

Like I said, I am willing to concede this based on a determination of the evidence applied to the law. 

You and I do not have all the evidence for us to review.  I am not a lawyer.  Not sure about you. 

That's why I asked a few times now:

Pretty telling if the investigation is over and everyone who is going to be charged is charged and the charges are final.  Is that the case or no?

I have no idea how many people they are going to charge.  What I do know is it has been six months and they have charged hundreds of people.  We know exactly who those people are and what they have been charged with (I posted the link). 

Tell me the names of these people so we can see exactly what they have been charged with:  "A specified person(s), made comments suggesting premeditation (on video), illegally entered the capital building (along with a mob, which some broke in) making comments that they were there to establish a new government."
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 15, 2021, 03:45:25 PM
It's the same back and forth with Ozmo as with straw/lurker/funk just without the name calling. Only the media and leftists are calling that an insurrection, like Dos said, not a single insurrection charge, but the media has people convinced that's what it was. What can you do?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 15, 2021, 07:21:19 PM
It's the same back and forth with Ozmo as with straw/lurker/funk just without the name calling. Only the media and leftists are calling that an insurrection, like Dos said, not a single insurrection charge, but the media has people convinced that's what it was. What can you do?

There have been so many falsehoods proven to be as such - very fine, bleach, clearing out for chuch, russiagate, calling troops losers, find the fraud, etc........

People should learn by now.

But Ozmo is good people, willing to have legit discussion.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 15, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
But Ozmo is good people, willing to have legit discussion.
Sort of. He doesn't resort to the name calling but he does seem to have drank the msm koolaid. :)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 15, 2021, 11:44:51 PM
It's the same back and forth with Ozmo as with straw/lurker/funk just without the name calling. Only the media and leftists are calling that an insurrection, like Dos said, not a single insurrection charge, but the media has people convinced that's what it was. What can you do?


But Ozmo is good people, willing to have legit discussion.

Sort of. He doesn't resort to the name calling but he does seem to have drank the msm koolaid. :)

I definitely would not mention Ozmo in the same breath as the Village Idiot.  I think he's either just not thinking this through or bored and feels like arguing.  lol
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 16, 2021, 09:17:00 AM
There have been so many falsehoods proven to be as such - very fine, bleach, clearing out for chuch, russiagate, calling troops losers, find the fraud, etc........

People should learn by now.

But Ozmo is good people, willing to have legit discussion.

I definitely would not mention Ozmo in the same breath as the Village Idiot.  I think he's either just not thinking this through or bored and feels like arguing.  lol

I appreciate the comments.  I like to have a discussion over name-calling for sure.  Sometimes I argue points here just to test an argument.  There are posters here, you two included, whose viewpoints I respect even if I don't always agree with them.  Sometimes you bring up points I didn't consider.  I am always willing to change my viewpoint based on these arguments, input, points, etc.   

Concerning this charge of insurrection.  It's a hard charge to prove.  I still believe what some of the protesters did satisfies the requirements for a charge of insurrection based on the comments that suggest premeditation and breaking into the Captial building.  For a prosecutor to make the charge and prove guilt is another story.  That may be why no one has been charged with insurrection.  Also, are the charges final?  Is the investigation still going on?  Until its final, who is to say.

Quote
https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-2383.html

18 U.S.C. § 2383 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2383. Rebellion or insurrection:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;  and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/rebellion-or-insurrection.html

The first is that, since insurrection and rebellion is a crime, private citizens do not have standing to file charges against someone. Only the government itself, acting through the Office of the Attorney General, can bring charges.

The second reason that rebellion and insurrection are rarely charged is because of the strength of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech. A certain amount of hyperbole is tolerated, where there aren't accompanying overt acts. The general language of the crime also lends itself to interpretation, making prosecutions a chancier proposition.

Comment:  "While we are here we might as well set up a government". Time: 4:09. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270F8s5TEKY&t=251s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270F8s5TEKY&t=251s)

Overt Acts:  Unlawfully going into the capital building, Challenging the authority of the US Government while in a democratic process, associated violence of the mob.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 16, 2021, 09:45:53 AM


Concerning this charge of insurrection.  It's a hard charge to prove.  I still believe what some of the protesters did satisfies the requirements for a charge of insurrection based on the comments that suggest premeditation and breaking into the Captial building.  For a prosecutor to make the charge and prove guilt is another story.  That may be why no one has been charged with insurrection.  Also, are the charges final?  Is the investigation still going on?  Until its final, who is to say.



Exactly.  We'll find out.

The left will do everything they can though, as they want this to be the worstest thing ever, to overshadow that passes they gave to the other events of the past year.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 16, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
This idiot seemed to know exactly why THE TRAITOR summoned him to DC on January 6th and knew exactly what THE TRAITOR wanted him to do

He knew he was there to participate in an INSURRECTION and had no problem saying so and putting it in writing as well.

Quote
California man organized ‘armed fighters’ for Capitol riot, new court filing says

A Ladera Ranch entrepreneur is suspected of “organizing and fomenting” a group of “armed fighters” to stop Congress’ certification of the presidential election, according to a court filing by federal prosecutors on Tuesday expanding on his alleged role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

Russell Taylor armed himself with a knife, joined a “mob of protesters” that clashed with officers attempting to keep them out of the Capitol building, celebrated “at the sight of the chaos,” and later messaged a friend that the next step would be “insurrection,” federal prosecutors allege in the new court filing.

The filing comes as prosecutors are attempting to keep Taylor, 40, locked up pending trial. Taylor and former La Habra police chief Alan Hostetter – who teamed up together to organize Orange County Stop the Steal and anti-coronavirus pandemic restriction rallies – were criminally charged last week for their role in the Capitol insurrection, along with four other men accused of being involved in the Three Percenters militia.

Taylor’s attorney, Dyke Huish, has previously denied that Taylor is a militant, indicating that his actions were misunderstood.

But federal prosecutors in the new filing explicitly accuse Taylor of setting up a chat group on the messaging app Telegram in order to “organize a group of ‘fighters’ to travel to D.C. with weapons for Jan. 6, 2021 to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.”

Taylor and Hostetter are leaders of the American Phoenix project, which federal prosecutors identify as being founded to “advocate for violence against individuals and groups who supported the 2020 presidential election results.” Prosecutors cite public speeches by Hostetter in which he allegedly referred to “execution” as a “just punishment” for those unwilling to overturn the election results.

Prosecutors say that in a late December message to Hostetter, Taylor wrote, “I truly believe that we were meant to come together to be engaged in this war at this time and as I have said before it is an honor to be shoulder to shoulder with you.”

In a later group message that prosecutors cite as being evidence of Taylor’s “intentions for violence,” Taylor allegedly wrote  regarding the trip to the Capitol that “I personally want to be on the front steps and be one of the first ones to breach the doors!”

The day before the Capitol riot, prosecutors wrote, Taylor gave a public speech outside the Supreme Court in which he said “we will fight and we will bleed before we allow our freedoms to be taken from us.” Later that evening, prosecutors allege, he sent a photo of a tactical vest, knife, hatchets, stone baton, gloves, scarf and backpack with the caption “now getting ready for tomorrow.”

Prosecutors allege that Hostetter drove across the country with a backpack belonging to Taylor that was “full of weapons.” Their other co-defendants – Derek Kinnison, Erik Warner, Ronald Mele and Felipe Martinez – drove cross-country “in an SUV loaded with weapons including firearms, knives and bear spray as well as tactical gear,” according to the new court filing.

On Jan. 6, Taylor and the others marched to the Capitol, where Taylor is alleged to have been “among an initial group of rioters who clashed with a line of law enforcement officers on the Lower West Terrace of the Capitol building.” In the midst of the chaos, Taylor filed a “selfie” video in which he “urged on other rioters who were fighting with officers,” according to prosecutors, reportedly shouting, “Move forward Americans!”

Prosecutors allege that in a chat message later that evening, Taylor wrote, “I was pushing through traitors all day today. WE STORMED THE CAPITOL! Freedom was fully demonstrated today!” Asked by a friend what would happen next, Taylor allegedly responded “Insurrection!”

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/06/16/ladera-ranch-man-organized-armed-fighters-for-capitol-riot-new-court-filing-says/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/accused-capitol-rioter-russell-taylor-in-bid-to-be-released-from-detention
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 12:09:21 PM
I appreciate the comments.  I like to have a discussion over name-calling for sure.  Sometimes I argue points here just to test an argument.  There are posters here, you two included, whose viewpoints I respect even if I don't always agree with them.  Sometimes you bring up points I didn't consider.  I am always willing to change my viewpoint based on these arguments, input, points, etc.   

Concerning this charge of insurrection.  It's a hard charge to prove.  I still believe what some of the protesters did satisfies the requirements for a charge of insurrection based on the comments that suggest premeditation and breaking into the Captial building.  For a prosecutor to make the charge and prove guilt is another story.  That may be why no one has been charged with insurrection.  Also, are the charges final?  Is the investigation still going on?  Until its final, who is to say.

18 U.S.C. § 2383 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2383. Rebellion or insurrection:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;  and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/rebellion-or-insurrection.html

The first is that, since insurrection and rebellion is a crime, private citizens do not have standing to file charges against someone. Only the government itself, acting through the Office of the Attorney General, can bring charges.

The second reason that rebellion and insurrection are rarely charged is because of the strength of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech. A certain amount of hyperbole is tolerated, where there aren't accompanying overt acts. The general language of the crime also lends itself to interpretation, making prosecutions a chancier proposition.

Comment:  "While we are here we might as well set up a government". Time: 4:09. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270F8s5TEKY&t=251s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270F8s5TEKY&t=251s)

Overt Acts:  Unlawfully going into the capital building, Challenging the authority of the US Government while in a democratic process, associated violence of the mob.

Which specific people are you talking about here?  We can check their names with the list in the link I provided showing who has been arrested and what they have been charged with. 

A specified person(s), made comments suggesting premeditation (on video), illegally entered the capital building (along with a mob, which some broke in) making comments that they were there to establish a new government.


I heard a soundbite from the FBI Director who said he is unaware of anyone being charged with insurrection. 

Also, there were no weapons recovered/confiscated on the Capitol Grounds that day and no one at the Capitol has been charged with weapons crimes.  Worst insurrection ever.  lol

FBI Official Says No Guns Were Recovered During Capitol Riot Arrests
Trump Supporters Hold "Stop The Steal" Rally In DC Amid Ratification Of Presidential Election
CHUCK ROSS
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER
March 03, 2021
https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/03/fbi-guns-capitol-riots/

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 16, 2021, 01:08:29 PM
Which specific people are you talking about here?  We can check their names with the list in the link I provided showing who has been arrested and what they have been charged with. 

I heard a soundbite from the FBI Director who said he is unaware of anyone being charged with insurrection. 

Also, there were no weapons recovered/confiscated on the Capitol Grounds that day and no one at the Capitol has been charged with weapons crimes.  Worst insurrection ever.  lol

FBI Official Says No Guns Were Recovered During Capitol Riot Arrests
Trump Supporters Hold "Stop The Steal" Rally In DC Amid Ratification Of Presidential Election
CHUCK ROSS
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER
March 03, 2021
https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/03/fbi-guns-capitol-riots/

How would I know the name of the person?

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
How would I know the name of the person?

I assumed you did.  I pointed out a gaping hole in your view on this by highlighting you're not even talking about specific people:

I don't see a difference.  What you're saying isn't logical.  Some unspecified person, made some unspecified plan to overthrow and run the federal government and our military, using pepper spray.  I bet you cannot even say that out loud with a straight face. 


You responded as if you know who those specific people are:

A specified person(s), made comments suggesting premeditation (on video), illegally entered the capital building (along with a mob, which some broke in) making comments that they were there to establish a new government.


Who are these "specified persons(s)"?  The reason I'm asking is we have a list of everyone who has been charged.  I want to see exactly whether these "specified person(s)" were charged and if so what they were charged with. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 16, 2021, 02:15:09 PM
I assumed you did.  I pointed out a gaping hole in your view on this by highlighting you're not even talking about specific people:

You responded as if you know who those specific people are:

Who are these "specified persons(s)"?  The reason I'm asking is we have a list of everyone who has been charged.  I want to see exactly whether these "specified person(s)" were charged and if so what they were charged with.

Why would you assume I had the name of the person?

Do you think I am involved in the investigation?

Even if I was I couldn't release details about it.

I said specified because it's on video.   Are you suggesting they don't know that person's name?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
Why would you assume I had the name of the person?

Do you think I am involved in the investigation?

Even if I was I couldn't release details about it.

I said specified because it's on video.   Are you suggesting they don't know that person's name?

Because YOU said "specified person(s)."  So what you're really saying is someone was on a video, saying something about overthrowing and running the United States government, but you don't know who that specific person is or whether they have been charged with a crime. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 16, 2021, 02:46:24 PM
Because YOU said "specified person(s)."  So what you're really saying is someone was on a video, saying something about overthrowing and running the United States government, but you don't who that specific person is or whether they have been charged with a crime.

So?

How would I know that person's name if I am not involved in the investigation?

And what does me knowing that person's name have to do with that person being part of the capitol riot mob that broke into the capital building and talked about setting up a government all caught on video?

I said specified because it shows that person on video saying it.  It's not unspecified suggesting hearsay or anonymous.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 02:56:56 PM
So?

How would I know that person's name if I am not involved in the investigation?

And what does me knowing that person's name have to do with that person being part of the capitol riot mob that broke into the capital building and talked about setting up a government all caught on video?

I said specified because it shows that person on video saying it.  It's not unspecified suggesting hearsay or anonymous.

We're kind of going in circles.  I tried to make the point that you're not even talking about specific people who allegedly tried to overthrow the government and our military (with their pepper spray).  You claimed there are specific people, but now you say you have no idea who those specific people are.  That was my point. 

Here, again, is the link to everyone who has been charged related to the January 6 incident:  https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/

This link identifies the person, their specific charges, and has pictures of many of them. 

If you know of a specific person who you contend was involved in an insurrection, you can find that person in that link (if they have been charged).
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2021, 03:08:01 PM
It was about as much of an insurrection as fans charging a football field after a game is a violent overthrow of the University. No one was setting up foxholes and digging in with machine guns to hold the capital.

The difference is where it takes place. Fans charging a football field can get extremely violent, but it isn't about politics or government and it isn't in a  government building such as the nation's capitol. Football teams aren't overthrown, but governments are. Your analogy doesn't work.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 16, 2021, 03:11:51 PM
We're kind of going in circles.

yep lol

Quote
I tried to make the point that you're not even talking about specific people who allegedly tried to overthrow the government and our military (with their pepper spray).  You claimed there are specific people, but now you say you have no idea who those specific people are.  That was my point.

I was...., specifically the one on the video.  I haven't seen all the videos from all the sources.  But that's one I saw that specifically shows a person with the intent to set up a government after they illegally broke into the capitol and participated in the disruption of our democratic process.

It doesn't matter if they had a ray gun or whipped cream.  Point is, they had intent combined with an overt act.

BTW, feel free to match up 400 faces to the person in the video.  lol

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2021, 03:12:21 PM
We're kind of going in circles.  I tried to make the point that you're not even talking about specific people who allegedly tried to overthrow the government and our military (with their pepper spray).  You claimed there are specific people, but now you say you have no idea who those specific people are.  That was my point. 

Here, again, is the link to everyone who has been charged related to the January 6 incident:  https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/

This link identifies the person, their specific charges, and has pictures of many of them. 

If you know of a specific person who you contend was involved in an insurrection, you can find that person in that link (if they have been charged).

Thanks for this post. Very interesting. I have not looked through the entire list but I am curious to check it to see if I recognize any of these folks....seems unlikely, but one never knows.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 03:26:34 PM
yep lol

I was...., specifically the one on the video.  I haven't seen all the videos from all the sources.  But that's one I saw that specifically shows a person with the intent to set up a government after they illegally broke into the capitol and participated in the disruption of our democratic process.

It doesn't matter if they had a ray gun or whipped cream.  Point is, they had intent combined with an overt act.

BTW, feel free to match up 400 faces to the person in the video.  lol

To be specific, they didn't have a ray gun or whipped cream.  They had nothing.  No weapons. 

I'm not asking you setup questions.  I thought you actually had a specific person in mind.  Do you have a link to the video you're talking about? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 03:29:10 PM
Thanks for this post. Very interesting. I have not looked through the entire list but I am curious to check it to see if I recognize any of these folks....seems unlikely, but one never knows.

If you happen to know that idiot in the Viking hat and costume can you please punch him in the face for making me look at that crap?  Thank you. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2021, 03:33:23 PM
To be specific, they didn't have a ray gun or whipped cream.  They had nothing.  No weapons. 

I'm not asking you setup questions.  I thought you actually had a specific person in mind.  Do you have a link to the video you're talking about?

Definition of the word weapon: a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

A review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 03:41:54 PM
Definition of the word weapon: a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

A review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.

FBI Official Says No Guns Were Recovered During Capitol Riot Arrests
Trump Supporters Hold "Stop The Steal" Rally In DC Amid Ratification Of Presidential Election
CHUCK ROSS
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER
March 03, 2021

A top FBI counterterrorism official testified on Wednesday that no firearms were recovered during arrests of rioters who breached the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

“How many firearms were confiscated in the Capitol or on Capitol grounds during that day?” Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson asked Jill Sanborn, the FBI official, during a Senate Homeland Security hearing.

“To my knowledge, we have not recovered any on that day from any other arrests at the scene at this point,” replied Sanborn, who serves as FBI assistant director for counterterrorism.

“I don’t want to speak on behalf of Metro and Capitol police, but, to my knowledge, none,” she added.


Sanborn also said that no shots were fired at the Capitol, save for the one fired by a police officer that killed Ashli Babbitt, an Air Force veteran from California. (RELATED: FBI Director Christopher Wray Refuses To Disclose Brian Sicknick’s Cause Of Death)

“I believe that the only shots that were fired were the ones that resulted in the death of the lady,” Sanborn testified, referring to Babbitt.

Babbitt was shot while attempting to enter a restricted area of the Capitol.

Johnson noted that more than 300 people have been charged in connection with the riots, 40 of which have been charged with assault.

Sanborn said that nobody at the Capitol has faced weapons charges, though a firearm was recovered from a van containing Molotov cocktails that was found near the Capitol.

Though no firearms were recovered, dozens of police officers were injured during the Capitol attack. Videos posted online show rioters using a variety of other weapons during confrontations with police officers.

One Capitol police officer, Brian Sicknick, died during the melee, though the cause of death has not been officially released.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/03/fbi-guns-capitol-riots/
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2021, 03:59:15 PM
There seems to be some disagreement on the definition of what is a weapon.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

https://www.allsides.com/news/2021-03-19-0725/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

A small number of Capitol riot defendants — at least three charged in the federal criminal investigation — have been accused of carrying firearms. But guns weren't the only threat. According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding "deadly or dangerous" weapons that weren't firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/

The Metropolitan Police Department reported its officers, while trying to clear the Capitol grounds about 7 p.m. on Jan. 6, arrested and charged a 33-year-old Maryland man with the federal offense of carrying a fully loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds. The suspect, Christopher Michael Alberts, also was carrying a second magazine.

In legal terms, “armed” means being in possession of any weapon, not just a firearm. While there are laws that specifically address firearms, weapons can include virtually any object used to threaten or cause harm.

Thomas Webster, a retired New York Police Department officer, was charged with attacking a Metropolitan Police Department officer with a metal flagpole. The federal complaint says he struck at the officer “with the flagpole numerous times.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 16, 2021, 04:04:35 PM
There seems to be some disagreement on the definition of what is a weapon.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

https://www.allsides.com/news/2021-03-19-0725/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used

A small number of Capitol riot defendants — at least three charged in the federal criminal investigation — have been accused of carrying firearms. But guns weren't the only threat. According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding "deadly or dangerous" weapons that weren't firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-weapons-deadly-dangerous/

The Metropolitan Police Department reported its officers, while trying to clear the Capitol grounds about 7 p.m. on Jan. 6, arrested and charged a 33-year-old Maryland man with the federal offense of carrying a fully loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds. The suspect, Christopher Michael Alberts, also was carrying a second magazine.

In legal terms, “armed” means being in possession of any weapon, not just a firearm. While there are laws that specifically address firearms, weapons can include virtually any object used to threaten or cause harm.

Thomas Webster, a retired New York Police Department officer, was charged with attacking a Metropolitan Police Department officer with a metal flagpole. The federal complaint says he struck at the officer “with the flagpole numerous times.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/capitol-protesters-were-armed-with-variety-of-weapons/

Let me see.  Do I roll with the "Trump was a Russian Manchurian Candidate" media or the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress along with a link showing the actual charges.  Tough decision. . . .
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 16, 2021, 04:14:26 PM
yep lol

I was...., specifically the one on the video.  I haven't seen all the videos from all the sources.  But that's one I saw that specifically shows a person with the intent to set up a government after they illegally broke into the capitol and participated in the disruption of our democratic process.

It doesn't matter if they had a ray gun or whipped cream.  Point is, they had intent combined with an overt act.

You keep saying they, how many does it take for an insurrection? Is one guys saying he want so to overthrow the government enough to claim that the entire crowd is insurrectionists? Is it 5 people claiming they want to overthrow the government? What's the number of people that need to say it for there to be charges because nobody has been charged with insurrection despite what the media keeps yammering on about.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2021, 06:39:52 PM
Let me see.  Do I roll with the "Trump was a Russian Manchurian Candidate" media or the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress along with a link showing the actual charges.  Tough decision. . . .

Let me see if I have this right. You say there were no weapons involved in the Capitol Riot because you believe weapons means firearms and nothing else. Is this correct?

It is my conclusion most people's definition of weapon is much broader than yours.

So, I read though the link you posted which was a link to a March 3, 2021 article in the Daily Caller. Everyday, more people have been charged and arrested for crimes relating to the Capitol riots. Information from two and a half months ago my no longer be correct.

Sanborn said that nobody at the Capitol has faced weapons charges, though a firearm was recovered from a van containing Molotov cocktails that was found near the Capitol.

Though no firearms were recovered, dozens of police officers were injured during the Capitol attack. Videos posted online show rioters using a variety of other weapons during confrontations with police officers.


In the article when asked about firearms, Sandborn is quoted as saying, “To my knowledge, we have not recovered any on that day from any other arrests at the scene at this point” and “I don’t want to speak on behalf of Metro and Capitol police, but, to my knowledge, none.”

As of June 13, 2021 there 465 people arrested in Capitol riot case, including at least 50 who have served in the military. Here's is what I found going through about 25% of the total list of folks who have currently been charged. Most of these were weapons charges and a few were firearms charges. Note: when someone was charged multiple times for the same thing, I omitted subsequent charges.


ALAM, Zachary Jordan; charged with Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

ALBERTS, Christopher Michael; Unlawful Possession of a Firearm on Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Carrying a Pistol without a License Outside Home or Place of Business; Possession of a Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device

ASHLOCK, Ryan; charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BARNETT, Richard; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BLACK, Joshua Matthew; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Impeding Ingress and Egress in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon and Aiding and Abetting; ; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

BLAIR, David Alan; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

CALDWELL, Daniel Ray; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

CHRESTMAN, William;  Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

COFFMAN, Lonnie Leroy; Charged with Possession of an unregistered firearm (destructive device) and carrying a pistol without a license.

CUA, Bruno Joseph; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FAIRLAMB, Scott Kevin; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FOY, Michael Joseph; Charged with Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GIESWEIN, Robert; charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GOSSJANKOWSKI, Vitali; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a
Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

HARKRIDER, Alex Kirk; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 06:37:31 AM
To be specific, they didn't have a ray gun or whipped cream.  They had nothing.  No weapons. 

I'm not asking you setup questions.  I thought you actually had a specific person in mind.  Do you have a link to the video you're talking about?

18 U.S.C. § 2383 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2383. Rebellion or insurrection:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;  and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/rebellion-or-insurrection.html

The first is that, since insurrection and rebellion is a crime, private citizens do not have standing to file charges against someone. Only the government itself, acting through the Office of the Attorney General, can bring charges.

The second reason that rebellion and insurrection are rarely charged is because of the strength of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech. A certain amount of hyperbole is tolerated, where there aren't accompanying overt acts. The general language of the crime also lends itself to interpretation, making prosecutions a chancier proposition.

Comment:  "While we are here we might as well set up a government". Time: 4:09.
&t=251s

Overt Acts:  Unlawfully going into the capital building, Challenging the authority of the US Government while in a democratic process, associated violence of the mob.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 06:39:57 AM
You keep saying they, how many does it take for an insurrection? Is one guys saying he want so to overthrow the government enough to claim that the entire crowd is insurrectionists? Is it 5 people claiming they want to overthrow the government? What's the number of people that need to say it for there to be charges because nobody has been charged with insurrection despite what the media keeps yammering on about.

Where am I saying the entire crowd should be charge with insurrection?

Is the investigation over?

18 U.S.C. § 2383 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2383. Rebellion or insurrection:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;  and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/rebellion-or-insurrection.html

The first is that, since insurrection and rebellion is a crime, private citizens do not have standing to file charges against someone. Only the government itself, acting through the Office of the Attorney General, can bring charges.

The second reason that rebellion and insurrection are rarely charged is because of the strength of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech. A certain amount of hyperbole is tolerated, where there aren't accompanying overt acts. The general language of the crime also lends itself to interpretation, making prosecutions a chancier proposition.

Comment:  "While we are here we might as well set up a government". Time: 4:09.
&t=251s

Overt Acts:  Unlawfully going into the capital building, Challenging the authority of the US Government while in a democratic process, associated violence of the mob.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 06:43:02 AM
Let me see if I have this right. You say there were no weapons involved in the Capitol Riot because you believe weapons means firearms and nothing else. Is this correct?

It is my conclusion most people's definition of weapon is much broader than yours.

So, I read though the link you posted which was a link to a March 3, 2021 article in the Daily Caller. Everyday, more people have been charged and arrested for crimes relating to the Capitol riots. Information from two and a half months ago my no longer be correct.

Sanborn said that nobody at the Capitol has faced weapons charges, though a firearm was recovered from a van containing Molotov cocktails that was found near the Capitol.

Though no firearms were recovered, dozens of police officers were injured during the Capitol attack. Videos posted online show rioters using a variety of other weapons during confrontations with police officers.


In the article when asked about firearms, Sandborn is quoted as saying, “To my knowledge, we have not recovered any on that day from any other arrests at the scene at this point” and “I don’t want to speak on behalf of Metro and Capitol police, but, to my knowledge, none.”

As of June 13, 2021 there 465 people arrested in Capitol riot case, including at least 50 who have served in the military. Here's is what I found going through about 25% of the total list of folks who have currently been charged. Most of these were weapons charges and a few were firearms charges. Note: when someone was charged multiple times for the same thing, I omitted subsequent charges.


ALAM, Zachary Jordan; charged with Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

ALBERTS, Christopher Michael; Unlawful Possession of a Firearm on Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Carrying a Pistol without a License Outside Home or Place of Business; Possession of a Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device

ASHLOCK, Ryan; charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BARNETT, Richard; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BLACK, Joshua Matthew; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Impeding Ingress and Egress in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon and Aiding and Abetting; ; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

BLAIR, David Alan; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

CALDWELL, Daniel Ray; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

CHRESTMAN, William;  Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

COFFMAN, Lonnie Leroy; Charged with Possession of an unregistered firearm (destructive device) and carrying a pistol without a license.

CUA, Bruno Joseph; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FAIRLAMB, Scott Kevin; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FOY, Michael Joseph; Charged with Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GIESWEIN, Robert; charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GOSSJANKOWSKI, Vitali; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a
Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

HARKRIDER, Alex Kirk; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

Beach?

Are those weapons?

Or are the authorities in the CT?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 11:19:57 AM
Maybe Sedition should be added?

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/01/08/a-civilian-s-guide-to-insurrection-legalese (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/01/08/a-civilian-s-guide-to-insurrection-legalese)

Today, the U.S. criminal code defines sedition as part of a broad category that includes treason. The actual crime is called “seditious conspiracy.” This involves using—or planning to use—physical force against the U.S. government, as well as efforts to “seize, take, or possess” government property, or “delay the execution of any law of the United States” by force. The punishment can be up to 20 years in prison.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 17, 2021, 11:58:05 AM
Lol ... oh brother
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:16:45 PM
Let me see if I have this right. You say there were no weapons involved in the Capitol Riot because you believe weapons means firearms and nothing else. Is this correct?

It is my conclusion most people's definition of weapon is much broader than yours.

So, I read though the link you posted which was a link to a March 3, 2021 article in the Daily Caller. Everyday, more people have been charged and arrested for crimes relating to the Capitol riots. Information from two and a half months ago my no longer be correct.

Sanborn said that nobody at the Capitol has faced weapons charges, though a firearm was recovered from a van containing Molotov cocktails that was found near the Capitol.

Though no firearms were recovered, dozens of police officers were injured during the Capitol attack. Videos posted online show rioters using a variety of other weapons during confrontations with police officers.


In the article when asked about firearms, Sandborn is quoted as saying, “To my knowledge, we have not recovered any on that day from any other arrests at the scene at this point” and “I don’t want to speak on behalf of Metro and Capitol police, but, to my knowledge, none.”

As of June 13, 2021 there 465 people arrested in Capitol riot case, including at least 50 who have served in the military. Here's is what I found going through about 25% of the total list of folks who have currently been charged. Most of these were weapons charges and a few were firearms charges. Note: when someone was charged multiple times for the same thing, I omitted subsequent charges.


ALAM, Zachary Jordan; charged with Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

ALBERTS, Christopher Michael; Unlawful Possession of a Firearm on Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Carrying a Pistol without a License Outside Home or Place of Business; Possession of a Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device

ASHLOCK, Ryan; charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BARNETT, Richard; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

BLACK, Joshua Matthew; Charged with Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Impeding Ingress and Egress in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon and Aiding and Abetting; ; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

BLAIR, David Alan; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

CALDWELL, Daniel Ray; Charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

CHRESTMAN, William;  Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds and Carrying a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

COFFMAN, Lonnie Leroy; Charged with Possession of an unregistered firearm (destructive device) and carrying a pistol without a license.

CUA, Bruno Joseph; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FAIRLAMB, Scott Kevin; Charged with Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

FOY, Michael Joseph; Charged with Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GIESWEIN, Robert; charged with Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

GOSSJANKOWSKI, Vitali; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a
Deadly or Dangerous Weapon;

HARKRIDER, Alex Kirk; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings;

I ran the first three names through the link I previously provided:  https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/

The first guy, Zachary Jordan Alam, did not have a weapon.  The only weapon I see identified in the story is a helmet.

The second guy, Christopher Alberts, had a gun that he never brandished, which law enforcement discovered after they arrested him. 

The third guy, Joshua M. Black, carried a knife but never used it. 

I stopped there.  Swing and a miss.  None of these people were using weapons to try and overthrow the United States government and its military. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:19:07 PM
18 U.S.C. § 2383 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2383. Rebellion or insurrection:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;  and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/rebellion-or-insurrection.html

The first is that, since insurrection and rebellion is a crime, private citizens do not have standing to file charges against someone. Only the government itself, acting through the Office of the Attorney General, can bring charges.

The second reason that rebellion and insurrection are rarely charged is because of the strength of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech. A certain amount of hyperbole is tolerated, where there aren't accompanying overt acts. The general language of the crime also lends itself to interpretation, making prosecutions a chancier proposition.

Comment:  "While we are here we might as well set up a government". Time: 4:09.
&t=251s

Overt Acts:  Unlawfully going into the capital building, Challenging the authority of the US Government while in a democratic process, associated violence of the mob.

Thanks.  I listened to the coment at 4:09.  So you think this unidentified person was actually trying to overthrow the United States government and its military? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:21:57 PM
You keep saying they, how many does it take for an insurrection? Is one guys saying he want so to overthrow the government enough to claim that the entire crowd is insurrectionists? Is it 5 people claiming they want to overthrow the government? What's the number of people that need to say it for there to be charges because nobody has been charged with insurrection despite what the media keeps yammering on about.

Apparently it takes one unknown person making a dumb comment and a handful of random people armed to the teeth with pepper spray, a funky looking helmet, a gun that was never drawn, a knife that was never shown, etc. 

I doubt those dummies would have made much progress against the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, National Guard, etc.  lol
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:24:10 PM
Beach?

Are those weapons?

Or are the authorities in the CT?

So a guy had a helmet, one had a gun that was never drawn and was only discovered after he was arrested, and one had a knife that was never used and discovered after he was arrested.  I stopped evaluating after that, because it's a waste of my time. 

Are those "weapons"?  Yes.  Were they used as part of an insurrection to overthrow the United States government and its military?  No.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 12:31:51 PM
Thanks.  I listened to the coment at 4:09.  So you think this unidentified person was actually trying to overthrow the United States government and its military?

nope.

(set up question lol)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
So a guy had a helmet, one had a gun that was never drawn and was only discovered after he was arrested, and one had a knife that was never used and discovered after he was arrested.  I stopped evaluating after that, because it's a waste of my time. 

Are those "weapons"?  Yes.  Were they used as part of an insurrection to overthrow the United States government and its military?  No.

You are the one that was saying they had no weapons. 

They stormed the capital during the certification of the election, they had WEAPONS, one was caught talking about installing a government, they occupied the building, the chambers, etc.

Looks like a duck acts like a duck smells like a duck....  Its a fucking duck
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:42:40 PM
nope.

(set up question lol)

Yeah cause that would be pretty absurd.   :)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
You are the one that was saying they had no weapons. 

They stormed the capital during the certification of the election, they had WEAPONS, one was caught talking about installing a government, they occupied the building, the chambers, etc.

Looks like a duck acts like a duck smells like a duck....  Its a fucking duck

Seriously?  There were no weapons used as part of this riot.  That's a fact.  No one came in and brandished a gun or knife.  No, pepper spray wasn't used as a weapon to try and overthrow the United States government and our military. 

One person is on video making a dumb comment about installing a government, but you don't think that person was actually involved in an insurrection.

I don't know why you would die on this hill, but this is some crazy stuff.  One these days when your grandkids are old, and you're an old man, you're going to tell them the story about the January 6 "insurrection."  Only it will be a comedy.   :)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 17, 2021, 12:53:31 PM
So a guy had a helmet, one had a gun that was never drawn and was only discovered after he was arrested, and one had a knife that was never used and discovered after he was arrested.  I stopped evaluating after that, because it's a waste of my time. 

Are those "weapons"?  Yes.  Were they used as part of an insurrection to overthrow the United States government and its military?  No.

Did those with guns and knives in their possession while on federal property break the law? Yes.

It is your opinion that weapons were not used as part of the insurrection. The courts will determine  this. It is their legal opinion that counts. Not your personal opinion.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 01:08:41 PM
Seriously?  There were no weapons used as part of this riot.  That's a fact.  No one came in and brandished a gun or knife.  No, pepper spray wasn't used as a weapon to try and overthrow the United States government and our military. 

One person is on video making a dumb comment about installing a government, but you don't think that person was actually involved in an insurrection.

I don't know why you would die on this hill, but this is some crazy stuff.  One these days when your grandkids are old, and you're an old man, you're going to tell them the story about the January 6 "insurrection."  Only it will be a comedy.   :)

Yet, people are getting charged with unlawful possession, entry into a restricted building with a deadly or dangerous weapon and you have been saying "NO WEAPONS!!!"

And apologists like yourself are doing everything they can to minimize what was attempted on January 6th.

Shameful.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Did those with guns and knives in their possession while on federal property break the law? Yes.

It is your opinion that weapons were not used as part of the insurrection. The courts will determine  this. It is their legal opinion that counts. Not your personal opinion.

It's not my opinion.  It's the statement of fact from the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 17, 2021, 01:22:40 PM
Yet, people are getting charged with unlawful possession, entry into a restricted building with a deadly or dangerous weapon and you have been saying "NO WEAPONS!!!"

And apologists like yourself are doing everything they can to minimize what was attempted on January 6th.

Shameful.

Apparently Tucker Carlson suggested during last Tuesday night's broadcast that the Capitol insurrection was a 'false flag' operation carried out by members of the FBI.  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 01:27:29 PM
Yet, people are getting charged with unlawful possession, entry into a restricted building with a deadly or dangerous weapon and you have been saying "NO WEAPONS!!!"

And apologists like yourself are doing everything they can to minimize what was attempted on January 6th.

Shameful.

None of those charges involved people using weapons to overthrow the government and United States military.  So I'm rolling with the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress.

You sound confused.  What exactly am I apologizing for? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Body-Buildah on June 17, 2021, 01:33:04 PM
Apparently Tucker Carlson suggested during last Tuesday night's broadcast that the Capitol insurrection was a 'false flag' operation carried out by members of the FBI.  ::) ::) ::)

Might be fake news, like CNN, MSNBC, etc. Cant believe any of em... Especially since MSM is 99% Libturd run media.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 17, 2021, 01:36:59 PM
Might be fake news, like CNN, MSNBC, etc. Cant believe any of em... Especially since MSM is 99% Libturd run media.

Seems like that would be easy enough to check. The broadcast was Tuesday night June 15, 2021

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6259091865001#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 17, 2021, 02:18:21 PM
Let’s can this right now....not one of the 500 arrested has been charged with an “insurrection” and Trump was vindicated after a fake, unconstitutional Impeachment. Just like he was vindicated after being accused of using the military to clear Lafayette Park.

Sorry your feelings were hurt by his mean tweets and you can’t let it go
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: OzmO on June 17, 2021, 02:34:10 PM
None of those charges involved people using weapons to overthrow the government and United States military.  So I'm rolling with the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress.

You sound confused.  What exactly am I apologizing for?

I think you are the one confused. 

First, you claim there were no weapons.  It was shown conclusively there was.

Second, you seem to connect the act of insurrection with overthrowing the military which doesn't fall into the definition of insurrection.  And...Considering the percentage of Trump supporters in the military they would have surely fallen for the "the election was invalid" BS.

Third, you don't know the definition of the word apologist.   To save you time, here it is:

a·pol·o·gist
/əˈpäləjəst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.
"critics said he was an apologist for colonialism"   

Hope this clears it up for you.   ;)

And when my grandkids are old enough, I will tell them about the attempted insurrection by a bunch of mentally challenged Trumptards (truly special people) who thought they could go storm the capitol, armed with bats and knives and a buffalo helmet, disrupt our democratic processes, install a new government, etc.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 17, 2021, 02:40:46 PM
It's not my opinion.  It's the statement of fact from the FBI assistant director for counterterrorism's testimony under oath before Congress.

and that statement misses a lot of context
I'd like to know how many people the FBI actually searched on January 6th (my guess would be very few or none)

Quote
The claim that the FBI’s assistant director over the counterterrorism division told a Senate committee that the bureau did not recover any guns at the Jan. 6 Capitol riot is MISSING CONTEXT. While Jill Sanborn did say the FBI had recovered no firearms at the riot, outlets quoting her have removed the first part of her quote when she notes that she cannot speak for other law enforcement agencies that were present at the riot. The U.S. Department of Justice has levied gun charges against two men law enforcement officials say were at the Capitol riot and a third who arrived too late.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/04/fact-check-fbi-says-bureau-didnt-recover-guns-capitol-riot/4578286001/



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 17, 2021, 02:45:14 PM
Let’s can this right now....not one of the 500 arrested has been charged with an “insurrection” and Trump was vindicated after a fake, unconstitutional Impeachment. Just like he was vindicated after being accused of using the military to clear Lafayette Park.

Sorry your feelings were hurt by his mean tweets and you can’t let it go

Still hurt feelings?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 17, 2021, 02:45:36 PM
Anyone claiming there was no weapons is an idiot.  Or just trying to ignore the knives, bats, spears, bombs, axe handles, chemical sprays, hatchets, etc... that was brought to the scene.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 03:08:50 PM
I think you are the one confused. 

First, you claim there were no weapons.  It was shown conclusively there was.

Second, you seem to connect the act of insurrection with overthrowing the military which doesn't fall into the definition of insurrection.  And...Considering the percentage of Trump supporters in the military they would have surely fallen for the "the election was invalid" BS.

Third, you don't know the definition of the word apologist.   To save you time, here it is:

a·pol·o·gist
/əˈpäləjəst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.
"critics said he was an apologist for colonialism"   

Hope this clears it up for you.   ;)

And when my grandkids are old enough, I will tell them about the attempted insurrection by a bunch of mentally challenged Trumptards (truly special people) who thought they could go storm the capitol, armed with bats and knives and a buffalo helmet, disrupt our democratic processes, install a new government, etc.

Just so we are dealing with facts here:

1.  Hundreds of people have been charged.  No one has been charged with insurrection.  And don't give me that "they are still investigating" crap. 

2.  No one used a weapon to try and overthrow the government and our military.  I could care less if someone was arrested with a gun, a helmet, knife, etc. that was not used in the commission of any alleged insurrection. 

3.  You cannot identify a single person who engaged in an insurrection (which is particularly hard when no one has been charged with insurrection).  When I asked about specific persons, you gave me link to a video with a faceless person saying they should set up a government while they are there.  I then asked you:   "So you think this unidentified person was actually trying to overthrow the United States government and its military?"  You responded:  "nope." 

4.  You are definitely confused.  You are telling me that I'm an apologist for people YOU believe engaged in an insurrection.  (I literally laugh every time I type that word.)  I'm saying anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted.  I'm also saying none of those involved on 6 January were trying to overthrow and run the United States and our military.  It's an absolutely ridiculous contention.   

5.  When you tell your grandkids about the attempted insurrection (lol), ensure you are wearing your tinfoil hat.   :)   
 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 17, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
Just so we are dealing with facts here:

1.  Hundreds of people have been charged.  No one has been charged with insurrection.  And don't give me that "they are still investigating" crap. 

2.  No one used a weapon to try and overthrow the government and our military.  I could care less if someone was arrested with a gun, a helmet, knife, etc. that was not used in the commission of any alleged insurrection. 

3.  You cannot identify a single person who engaged in an insurrection (which is particularly hard when no one has been charged with insurrection).  When I asked about specific persons, you gave me link to a video with a faceless person saying they should set up a government while they are there.  I then asked you:   "So you think this unidentified person was actually trying to overthrow the United States government and its military?"  You responded:  "nope." 

4.  You are definitely confused.  You are telling me that I'm an apologist for people YOU believe engaged in an insurrection.  (I literally laugh every time I type that word.)  I'm saying anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted.  I'm also say none of those involved on 6 January were trying to overthrow and run the United States and our military.  It's an absolutely ridiculous contention.   

5.  When you tell your grandkids about the attempted insurrection (lol), ensure you are wearing your tinfoil hat.   :)   
 

1. Plenty of "weapons" were used on that day.  We can see it with our own eyes.  Also pipe bombs were placed near the RNC and DNC (last time I checked bombs were considered to be weapons)

2. Some of the Traitors who were there that day are on the record saying they were there to participate in an insurrection (see my prior posts)

3.  They created a gallows and were chanting Hang Mike Pence.  I'm going to take them at their word that they wanted to execute the Vice President. Why ?- because Trump repeatedly told his fellow TRAITORS that Pence could have stopped the counting of the electoral votes (which was a lie) and he even tweeted  his displeasure with Pence after the mob had started attacking The Capitol

4.  They attacked the Capitol on that specific day an an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in the hope that they could help THE TRAITOR over throw our democratic process.

5.  No one will have to tell their grandchildren anything.  They can just show them the videos

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 17, 2021, 04:32:57 PM
When the Capitol was stormed by a mob on January 6, 2021 was it a riot, an insurrection, a siege, a violent assault, sedition, domestic terrorism or a coup attempt? The definition of that event depends on who is talking about it. The left leaning media most often refers to it as an insurrection or an attempted insurrection. The right leaning media, Tucker Carlson for example calls it the Capitol riot. Sometimes, FOX News uses the terms Capitol protest.

Sen. Ron Johnson calls it a 'peaceful protest'. Marjorie Taylor Geene goes a step further when she say in regards to the "insurrection" that "Democrats must be held accountable for the political violence inspired by their rhetoric." She insists capitol rioters weren't Trump supporters.

In May, Mitt Romney said it was 'an insurrection against the Constitution'.

The Justice department uses the term 'Capitol Attack' when referring to the event at the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

What do you call what happened at the Capitol that day?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 17, 2021, 05:03:18 PM
Just like virtually everyone else this guy was not searched or arrested on January 6th

He was turned in by his family (who he threatened to kill if they turned him in)


Quote
January 6 rioter charged with bringing gun to Capitol grounds, undercutting GOP claims that the pro-Trump mob was unarmed

The Justice Department on Thursday charged a US Capitol rioter with bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds -- two days after a hearing where Republican lawmakers downplayed the deadly attack and claimed the pro-Trump rioters were unarmed.

The new charge was filed against Guy Reffitt, a Texan whose case received national attention after his own family members told the FBI that he threatened to kill them if they turned him in.  Prosecutors said in the new indictment that Reffitt carried a "deadly and dangerous weapon," specifically a "semi-automatic handgun," while he was unlawfully on Capitol grounds. He isn't accused of entering the building itself. But it's still against the law to breach the perimeter of the Capitol complex and storm past fences and barricades, which Reffitt was photographed doing.
 
This undermines Republican efforts to whitewash the January 6 insurrection. GOP lawmakers have pushed false-flag theories that the FBI, antifa or Black Lives Matter were behind the attack. They also claimed the mob was "unarmed," even though rioters are accused of bringing guns and knives to the Capitol and using bear spray, flagpoles and baseball bats to attack police.

Reffitt is charged with five crimes, including felony obstruction of Congress. He hasn't entered a plea to the new indictment, but he previously pleaded not guilty to some of the same charges.  According to court documents from earlier in the case, Reffitt allegedly told his son and other family members that he "brought his gun with him" when he was storming the Capitol area.
]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/17/politics/capitol-riot-guns-armed-insurrection/index.html
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Body-Buildah on June 17, 2021, 05:12:27 PM
A nice feller he isnt..
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 05:13:31 PM
When the Capitol was stormed by a mob on January 6, 2021 was it a riot, an insurrection, a siege, a violent assault, sedition, domestic terrorism or a coup attempt? The definition of that event depends on who is talking about it. The left leaning media most often refers to it as an insurrection or an attempted insurrection. The right leaning media, Tucker Carlson for example calls it the Capitol riot. Sometimes, FOX News uses the terms Capitol protest.

Sen. Ron Johnson calls it a 'peaceful protest'. Marjorie Taylor Geene goes a step further when she say in regards to the "insurrection" that "Democrats must be held accountable for the political violence inspired by their rhetoric." She insists capitol rioters weren't Trump supporters.

In May, Mitt Romney said it was 'an insurrection against the Constitution'.

The Justice department uses the term 'Capitol Attack' when referring to the event at the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

What do you call what happened at the Capitol that day?

Not an insurrection.  It's an asinine political talking point.

If it needs label:  protest, riot, trespass, a bunch of idiots, some of whom broke the law.  None of whom were there to overthrow the government and its military and run the country.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 17, 2021, 05:15:54 PM
Anyone claiming there was no weapons is an idiot.  Or just trying to ignore the knives, bats, spears, bombs, axe handles, chemical sprays, hatchets, etc... that was brought to the scene.



Hey BoB2,

 Italians,Japs,Brits,Canadians,French & Germans really love all those billions of American taxpayers dollars  :D ;D

 Senile Joe was 'great' @ G7 Summit  :-*
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 17, 2021, 05:52:10 PM


Hey BoB2,

 Italians,Japs,Brits,Canadians,French & Germans really love all those billions of American taxpayers dollars  :D ;D

 Senile Joe was 'great' @ G7 Summit  :-*

Hey Tetonic Knight 2,

Nobody gives a fuck what you think.

Sincerely,
Reality.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 17, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Not an insurrection.  It's an asinine political talking point.

If it needs label:  protest, riot, trespass, a bunch of idiots, some of whom broke the law.  None of whom were there to overthrow the government and its military and run the country.

Fair enough

What is your best definition for an attack on our Capitol with the intent to assassinate the Vice President and The Speaker of the House and to prevent the counting of electoral votes and peaceful transfer of power?

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 17, 2021, 06:07:52 PM
Hey Tetonic Knight 2,

Nobody gives a fuck what you think.

Sincerely,
Reality.

O, dear  ::) Robertino is upset (again)  :'( :'( :'(

Tetonic  ::)  ???





Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 17, 2021, 06:15:24 PM
Not an insurrection.  It's an asinine political talking point.

If it needs label:  protest, riot, trespass, a bunch of idiots, some of whom broke the law.  None of whom were there to overthrow the government and its military and run the country.

In your opinion, were they (at least some of them) there to stop Congress from certifying and thereby confirming Joe Biden's Presidential win? Why did some folks erect a noose and chant hang Mike Pence? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 17, 2021, 06:19:39 PM
Where am I saying the entire crowd should be charge with insurrection?

Did I say you said that ???

Has any law enforcement involved in this investigation called it an "insurrection"?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 17, 2021, 06:23:55 PM
In your opinion, were they (at least some of them) there to stop Congress from certifying and thereby confirming Joe Biden's Presidential win? Why did some folks erect a noose and chant hang Mike Pence?

I'm sure some of them were trying to stop the certification.  I don't view them much differently than the idiots who tried to get through Senate doors to stop Supreme Court confirmation votes.  If they trespassed that is definitely a crime.  But remember we're talking about a purported attempt to take control of and run the United States and its military.  And the story I posted at the start of this thread said some of them were let in by the building. 

I have no idea why some lunatics chanted they wanted to hang Mike Pence.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on June 18, 2021, 10:25:11 AM
Not an insurrection.  It's an asinine political talking point.

If it needs label:  protest, riot, trespass, a bunch of idiots, some of whom broke the law.  None of whom were there to overthrow the government and its military and run the country.
^ This.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 18, 2021, 10:58:22 AM
I'm sure some of them were trying to stop the certification.  I don't view them much differently than the idiots who tried to get through Senate doors to stop Supreme Court confirmation votes.  If they trespassed that is definitely a crime.  But remember we're talking about a purported attempt to take control of and run the United States and its military.  And the story I posted at the start of this thread said some of them were let in by the building. 

I have no idea why some lunatics chanted they wanted to hang Mike Pence.   

Perhaps they wanted to hang Pence because he refused Trump’s demand that he try to block the confirmation of Joe Biden’s election as the next president of the United States.

Pence said in a letter that he did not believe that a vice president has power to reject Electoral College votes.

This also may have inspired some to take action against Pence. Trump reiterated his call that the vice president undo Biden’s election when speaking at his rally outside the White House on January 6th.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 18, 2021, 12:55:20 PM


Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 18, 2021, 01:00:44 PM
Just because the mob erected a gallows and stormed the building chanting HANG MIKE PENCE you can't blame that on Trump

The mob got that idea all on their own

Right?

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 18, 2021, 02:09:10 PM
I'm sure some of them were trying to stop the certification.  I don't view them much differently than the idiots who tried to get through Senate doors to stop Supreme Court confirmation votes.  If they trespassed that is definitely a crime.  But remember we're talking about a purported attempt to take control of and run the United States and its military.  And the story I posted at the start of this thread said some of them were let in by the building. 

I have no idea why some lunatics chanted they wanted to hang Mike Pence.   

If you have no idea why some people wanted to assassinate the VP just scroll up and watch the video of Trump saying over and over how disappointed he was with Mike Pence.   Maybe that will give you a few clues as to why they wanted to kill him.

who said they purported to take control of and run the United States and it's military

their goal was to ILLEGALLY KEEP THE TRAITOR IN OFFICE

He would be the person "running the United States and the military"

Just because they were totally inept and had no chance of success doesn't change what they intended to do

If I attempt to rob a bank with a squirt gun and it's obvious that I only have a squirt gun I'm still going to be charged with attempted bank robbery

Ineptitude is not a defense.....no matter how many times you keep trying to make it one.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 18, 2021, 02:13:44 PM
If you have no idea why some people wanted to assassinate the VP just go to the next page and watch the video of Trump saying over and over how disappointed he was with Mike Pence.   Maybe that will help you form an idea of why they wanted to kill him.

who said they purported to take control of and run the United States and it's military

their goal was to ILLEGALLY KEEP THE TRAITOR IN OFFICE

He would be the person "running the United States and his military"

Just because they were totally inept and had no chance of success doesn't change what they intended to do

If I attempt to rob a bank with a squirt gun and it's obvious that I only have a squirt gun I'm still going to be charged with attempted bank robbery

Ineptitude is not a defense.....no matter how many times you keep trying to make it one.

Great analogy.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 18, 2021, 05:24:56 PM
Great analogy.
No it's not. **facepalm**
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 18, 2021, 07:14:43 PM
Perhaps they wanted to hang Pence because he refused Trump’s demand that he try to block the confirmation of Joe Biden’s election as the next president of the United States.

Pence said in a letter that he did not believe that a vice president has power to reject Electoral College votes.

This also may have inspired some to take action against Pence. Trump reiterated his call that the vice president undo Biden’s election when speaking at his rally outside the White House on January 6th.

I don't know and don't care.  What does this have to do with whether or not a handful of dummies were trying to overthrow and control the United States and our military? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 18, 2021, 09:05:52 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/tucker-carlson-fbi-agents-helped-plan-capitol-siege
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 19, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
I don't know and don't care. What does this have to do with whether or not a handful of dummies were trying to overthrow and control the United States and our military?


Of course you don't....that's no surprise.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 19, 2021, 07:21:42 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/tucker-carlson-fbi-agents-helped-plan-capitol-siege

complete and utter nonsense

but since you idiots believe it I assume you're in favor of a full blown investigation into the events of January 6th so we can find out what really happened

And since Republican shot that down I'm sure you're 100% in favor of Pelosi creating a Select Committee like the one John Boehner had for Benghazi

She has to do it on her own since Republican for some reason want to part of it

Agreed?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 19, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
Jailed since January. Political prisoners. No one charged. Funny, no one charged or imprisoned after DC and other cities burned right after Trumps inauguration in 2016. They know (however we don’t) who organized it..but still, no arrests made
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on June 19, 2021, 08:00:02 PM
Let them have an investigation.

Will show how woefully underprepared they were.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 20, 2021, 05:44:15 PM
Jailed since January. Political prisoners. No one charged. Funny, no one charged or imprisoned after DC and other cities burned right after Trumps inauguration in 2016. They know (however we don’t) who organized it..but still, no arrests made

hahahahhaa.... charges, multiple charges have been filed against all of them you idiot.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 20, 2021, 08:35:48 PM
hahahahhaa.... charges, multiple charges have been filed against all of them you idiot.

Ignorance is bliss....specially in Coaches case.

521 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 21, 2021, 08:05:28 AM
Ignorance is bliss....specially in Coaches case.

521 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far.

I thought the dumbest statement on here so far was "there was no weapons",...   but leave it to Coach to out stupid the current level of stupidity.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 21, 2021, 10:59:48 AM

Of course you don't....that's no surprise.

 ::)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 21, 2021, 03:29:32 PM
Ignorance is bliss....specially in Coaches case.

521 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far.
521 insurrections charges??
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 21, 2021, 06:13:03 PM
521 insurrections charges??

Don't try and confuse him with the facts.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 21, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
Don't try and confuse him with the facts.

521 insurrections charges??

you two are the ones that are confused

Go back and read Prime's statement again

He never said anyone was charged with insurrection

BTW - it's being reported today that the FBI had knowledge that the Trump TRAITORS had been discussing a revolution on line

That dumb kunt who got shot was a full on QTard who was expecting "the storm" and I'm sure she wasn't the only one in that crowd of traitors who thought that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/fbi-agent-acknowledges-court-filing-trump-backers-discussed-revolution-jan-n1271305

Quote
But according to a document entered into court records last week, an FBI agent acknowledged in a February investigative report that angry Trump supporters were talking openly in the days before the riot about bringing guns to the Capitol to start a "revolution."

"A review of open source and social media posts leading up to and during the event indicates that individuals participating on the 'Stop the Steal,' rally were angered about the results of the 2020 presidential election and felt that Joseph Biden had unlawfully been declared 'President-Elect,'" said the report by FBI Special Agent Patricia Norden. "Users in multiple online groups and platforms discussed traveling to the Capitol armed or making plans to start a 'revolution' on that day."

January 6th was a colossal law enforcement failure

Anyone without their head up their ass was expecting this mob of Trumptards to commit some form of violence that day.   Hell, even I was writing about it on this board on that day BEFORE it happened.   The Capitol police had prior warning and now we see that the FBI had good reason to suspect this was going to happen as well

We need a comprehensive investigation to find out what happened

Republicans have opted out (while at the same time floating idiotic theories about the FBI and Antifa) so the Dems should do it all on their own.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 21, 2021, 07:53:08 PM
521 insurrections charges??

Well, try reading it again. That's not what that post says. Remember me? I am the Google king, those are not my words. The media you don't subscribe to calls that event an insurrection. Those 500 plus people where not charged with insurrection. Coach thinks they weren't charged at all. He is wrong about that. All of them were.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 21, 2021, 07:57:36 PM
Don't try and confuse him with the facts.

You mean in as in charged with verses charge in an insurrection. Quel différence?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 21, 2021, 08:32:55 PM
You mean in as in charged with verses charge in an insurrection. Quel différence?

You don't understand your own words?

Ignorance is bliss....specially in Coaches case.

521 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far.

521 (or whatever the actual number is) have been charged.  ZERO have been charged with insurrection.  There was no insurrection.  You're tripping over your own ridiculous political talking point. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 22, 2021, 08:09:05 AM
Well, try reading it again. That's not what that post says. Remember me? I am the Google king, those are not my words. The media you don't subscribe to calls that event an insurrection. Those 500 plus people where not charged with insurrection. Coach thinks they weren't charged at all. He is wrong about that. All of them were.

Now they will start trying to split hairs in order to save from backpedaling.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 22, 2021, 05:54:20 PM
Well, try reading it again. That's not what that post says. Remember me? I am the Google king, those are not my words. The media you don't subscribe to calls that event an insurrection. Those 500 plus people where not charged with insurrection. Coach thinks they weren't charged at all. He is wrong about that. All of them were.
It's a question Senilemuscle, can you answer the question?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 22, 2021, 05:58:03 PM
You don't understand your own words?

521 (or whatever the actual number is) have been charged.  ZERO have been charged with insurrection.  There was no insurrection.  You're tripping over your own ridiculous political talking point.

where did Prime say anyone was charged with insurrection

BTW - it's awesome how Pence will have to be on the lookout from angry insurrectionists for the rest of his miserable life



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 22, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
where did Prime say anyone was charged with insurrection

BTW - it's awesome how Pence will have to be on the lookout from angry insurrectionists for the rest of his miserable life

He didn't say any were charged with insurrection.  That's just hair splitting and word play to spin the narrative. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on June 22, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
He didn't say any were charged with insurrection.  That's just hair splitting and word play to spin the narrative.

I'm fairly certain that if everything were the same on January 6th except that the domestic terrorists were BLM instead of a bunch of brain dead Trumptards and Qtards that the right wing in this country would be calling for mass public executions.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: WeightPSHR on June 22, 2021, 09:58:42 PM
Just because the mob erected a gallows and stormed the building chanting HANG MIKE PENCE you can't blame that on Trump

The mob got that idea all on their own

Right?



They most likely heard a lot of the 'feud' with Pence from CNN. Just like how Trump and Fraudci were fighting....all the while Fraudci is defending Trump in his leaked emails.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 23, 2021, 03:53:58 PM
I'm fairly certain that if everything were the same on January 6th except that the domestic terrorists were BLM instead of a bunch of brain dead Trumptards and Qtards that the right wing in this country would be calling for mass public executions.
I'm fairly certain you're a hypocrite and a liar. How can you look at your lawn and not cry?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 24, 2021, 11:08:48 AM
Oh look... another +2 to the ranks of the "political prisoners" who are being held in jail with no charges against them right?

Lock 'Em Up... Lock 'Em Up.... Lock 'Em Up.....   

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/famous-qanon-couple-featured-documentaries-173150047.html
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 24, 2021, 02:21:36 PM
He didn't say any were charged with insurrection.  That's just hair splitting and word play to spin the narrative.


How is life , BoB 2 !.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 24, 2021, 02:22:49 PM
I'm fairly certain that if everything were the same on January 6th except that the domestic terrorists were BLM instead of a bunch of brain dead Trumptards and Qtards that the right wing in this country would be calling for mass public executions.


How is life, BoB 1 !.  :D
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 24, 2021, 02:53:27 PM

How is life , BoB 2 !.

Better than yours apparently.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: IRON CROSS on June 24, 2021, 07:00:59 PM
Better than yours apparently.

BS, I text & drive + live for free on the beach  8)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: AbrahamG on June 25, 2021, 12:51:41 AM
I'm fairly certain that if everything were the same on January 6th except that the domestic terrorists were BLM instead of a bunch of brain dead Trumptards and Qtards that the right wing in this country would be calling for mass public executions.

I'm fairly certain that if BLM were scaling capital walls, hanging banners, breaking down doors, assaulting police, etc that the capital would have been a sea of dead, black bodies.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on June 25, 2021, 02:51:35 AM
I'm fairly certain that if BLM were scaling capital walls, hanging banners, breaking down doors, assaulting police, etc that the capital would have been a sea of dead, black bodies.
No they wouldn't have.  They set a church on fire across from the White House and you don't even hear about it.  The media has blown up the "insurrection" because they are totally in the tank for democrats.  When BLM and Antifa were burning buildings, looting businesses and attacking people in cities across America the media said they were "mostly peaceful" protests. ::)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 25, 2021, 07:16:24 AM
BS, I text & drive + live for free on the beach  8)

Anyone who is a Titty Knight gimmick is worse off than they think.

Hope this helps.  Though it probably won't.  But continue your usual babble.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: ThisisOverload on June 25, 2021, 01:17:51 PM
No they wouldn't have.  They set a church on fire across from the White House and you don't even hear about it.  The media has blown up the "insurrection" because they are totally in the tank for democrats.  When BLM and Antifa were burning buildings, looting businesses and attacking people in cities across America the media said they were "mostly peaceful" protests. ::)

They also smashed in windows of Texas Children's Hospital in Houston.

Every single spook in that crowd of thugs should have been put down.

Thankfully HPD actually did their job and ran them off.

Who attacks a children's hospital?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 25, 2021, 03:57:37 PM
I'm fairly certain that if BLM were scaling capital walls, hanging banners, breaking down doors, assaulting police, etc that the capital would have been a sea of dead, black bodies.
I'm fairly certain this is one of, if not the, dumbest post you've ever made. I'm beginning to think shizzo is using the AbrahamG account. :-\
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 25, 2021, 04:01:18 PM
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

It's not so much about who has committed the most violent acts as it is about where it took place.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: AbrahamG on June 25, 2021, 04:09:55 PM
I'm fairly certain this is one of, if not the, dumbest post you've ever made. I'm beginning to think shizzo is using the AbrahamG account. :-\

LOL @ you calling anyone dumb.  That being said you are being patently dishonest.  If thousands of angry black men were hanging banners, scaling walls, chanting hang Mike Pence, Trump would have ordered the street sweepers.  Deny it all you want.  Those pussies got off easy because they were white.  Except for Ashley Bobbit.  Wonder if John Wayne Bobbit attended her funeral?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 25, 2021, 05:18:42 PM
LOL @ you calling anyone dumb.  That being said you are being patently dishonest.  If thousands of angry black men were hanging banners, scaling walls, chanting hang Mike Pence, Trump would have ordered the street sweepers.  Deny it all you want.  Those pussies got off easy because they were white.  Except for Ashley Bobbit.  Wonder if John Wayne Bobbit attended her funeral?

Ex-husband of Lorena Bobbitt John Wayne Bobbitt sent his dick to Ashli Babbitt's funeral since he could not afford to go because he is presently out of work. He is a Trump fan, as was Ashli, so they had that in common.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 25, 2021, 05:24:39 PM
LOL @ you calling anyone dumb.  That being said you are being patently dishonest.  If thousands of angry black men were hanging banners, scaling walls, chanting hang Mike Pence, Trump would have ordered the street sweepers.  Deny it all you want.  Those pussies got off easy because they were white.  Except for Ashley Bobbit.  Wonder if John Wayne Bobbit attended her funeral?
LMAO@ You thinking with strawman stupidity. You and I both know that's an idiotic, moronic and just plain stupid statement you have made.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 25, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
John Wayne Bobbit sent his dick to Ashli Babbit's funeral since he could not afford to go because he is presently out of work. He is a Trump fan, as was Ashli so they had that incommon.
The fuck is wrong with you? Have one of your kids remind you to take your meds.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 25, 2021, 05:27:45 PM
The fuck is wrong with you? Have one of your kids remind you to take your meds.

My meds are fine. You apparently are out of your 'happy pills' though.....would you like me to send you some?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 25, 2021, 05:34:21 PM
My meds are fine. You apparently are out of your 'happy pills' though.....would you like me to send you some?
Where did I say I was unhappy ???
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: AbrahamG on June 25, 2021, 05:36:15 PM
LMAO@ You thinking with strawman stupidity. You and I both know that's an idiotic, moronic and just plain stupid statement you have made.

No, we actually don't both know that.  You are in denial.  Although I'm sure there are some peaceful gatherings where instead of singing kumbaya, they sing Hang Mike Pence.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 25, 2021, 05:43:07 PM
No, we actually don't both know that.  You are in denial.  Although I'm sure there are some peaceful gatherings where instead of singing kumbaya, they sing Hang Mike Pence.
What point over the last year of "peaceful protests", where dozens have been killed and beaten for no reason by black mobs, have the authorities opened fire on them? Actually, out of all of these out of control mobs over the last year where they have actually taken over neighborhoods have authorities gone and sent in the "street sweepers"?
You're becoming brainwashed and unreasonable, like strawman. :D
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on June 26, 2021, 02:34:15 PM
No, we actually don't both know that.  You are in denial.  Although I'm sure there are some peaceful gatherings where instead of singing kumbaya, they sing Hang Mike Pence.
You would have cheered them on if they had.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: WeightPSHR on June 26, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Some Capitol police officer were stupid (most likely they were Trumptards)
You have no idea what weapons they had because almost none were searched or arrested on the day of the event

Anyone who entered the building is being arrested (if identified).  They didn't walk through an open door.  The doors were broken down as police retreated

Also, the bombs, the gallows, the 140 injured officer, the 5 dead people

And of course lets not forget why they were there. 

They were there to stop the legal and democratic process of counting electoral votes in the attempt to stop the election of Joe Biden

That's an insurrection

Luckily for the country most Trumptards are fucking morons but their ineptitude is not a defense or an excuse for their actions.

You listen to Pelosi wayyyyyyyyy too much. Just about everything you stated is an opinion st best. Zero facts.

Orange man bad and rents all the available space in your brain. Pathetic.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 26, 2021, 06:35:58 PM
You listen to Pelosi wayyyyyyyyy too much. Just about everything you stated is an opinion st best. Zero facts.

Orange man bad and rents all the available space in your brain. Pathetic.

If what Straw man posted was actually verbatim for what Pelosi said....then he's right to listen to her, because what he posted is what happened. You are refuting it because because it does fit your agenda. Plain and simple.

Opinion verses fact:

1. Almost no one was searched or arrested on the day of the event....fact 

2. Anyone who illegally entered the building and has been identified is being arrested....fact.

3. They literally broke into the Capitol....fact.

4. The bombs, the gallows, 140 police officers, 5 dead people....all facts.
Bombs outside the Capitol....fact; https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot

Gallows….fact; (https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/4b4ba52/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fae%2F5b%2Fdc9a67e34d1b8265190330abc970%2F210115newsfiling-editorial.jpg)

140 officers injured....fact;  https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/

Five people died...fact; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/


Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 26, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
You listen to Pelosi wayyyyyyyyy too much. Just about everything you stated is an opinion st best. Zero facts.

Orange man bad and rents all the available space in your brain. Pathetic.

If what Straw man posted was actually verbatim for what Pelosi said....then he's right to listen to her, because what he posted is what happened. You are refuting it because because it does fit your agenda. Plain and simple.

Opinion verses fact:

1. Almost no one was searched or arrested on the day of the event....fact 

2. Anyone who illegally entered the building and has been identified is being arrested....fact.

3. They literally broke into the Capitol....fact.

4. The bombs, the gallows, 140 police officers, 5 dead people....all facts.
Bombs outside the Capitol....fact; https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot (https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot)

Gallows….fact; (https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/4b4ba52/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fae%2F5b%2Fdc9a67e34d1b8265190330abc970%2F210115newsfiling-editorial.jpg)

140 officers injured....fact;  https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/  (https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/)

Five people died...fact; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/  (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: WeightPSHR on June 26, 2021, 06:56:52 PM
If what Straw man posted was actually verbatim for what Pelosi said....then he's right to listen to her, because what he posted is what happened. You are refuting it because because it does fit your agenda. Plain and simple.

Opinion verses fact:

1. Almost no one was searched or arrested on the day of the event....fact 

2. Anyone who illegally entered the building and has been identified is being arrested....fact.

3. They literally broke into the Capitol....fact.

4. The bombs, the gallows, 140 police officers, 5 dead people....all facts.
Bombs outside the Capitol....fact; https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot (https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot)

Gallows….fact; (https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/4b4ba52/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fae%2F5b%2Fdc9a67e34d1b8265190330abc970%2F210115newsfiling-editorial.jpg)

140 officers injured....fact;  https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/  (https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/)

Five people died...fact; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/  (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/)

If this only fits my agenda, then why hasn't anything come from the investigation thus far other than minor penalties to those who participated.

Libby's tried to get Trump impeached with a heavily edited video during his trial.

The only one referring to this as an insurection are the Libby's who have allowed Trump to confirm them.

We can deabte all day about this, but nothing will come of this. You'll see.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 26, 2021, 07:31:11 PM
If this only fits my agenda, then why hasn't anything come from the investigation thus far other than minor penalties to those who participated.

Libby's tried to get Trump impeached with a heavily edited video during his trial.

The only one referring to this as an insurection are the Libby's who have allowed Trump to confirm them.

We can deabte all day about this, but nothing will come of this. You'll see.

Graydon Young of Florida, pleaded guilty in exchange for having the number of charges against him reduced and yet he is looking at between 5 and 6 years behind bars. I don't know about you but 6 years locked up in prison seemed like more than a minor penalty.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 26, 2021, 11:52:21 PM
https://rumble.com/viod3j-twitter-proves-tucker-correct-while-attempting-to-fact-check-him.html
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 27, 2021, 07:37:11 AM
Graydon Young of Florida, pleaded guilty in exchange for having the number of charges against him reduced and yet he is looking at between 5 and 6 years behind bars. I don't know about you but 6 years locked up in prison seemed like more than a minor penalty.

Un/Im/Non/possible.   Retard Coach here said all the people in jail for Jan 6th are political prisoners with no charges filed against them.  Reality sure says different huh?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 27, 2021, 08:52:30 AM
https://rumble.com/viod3j-twitter-proves-tucker-correct-while-attempting-to-fact-check-him.html


Goes to prove that desperate people, like Carlson will repeat and invent utter nonsense to feed their audience what it wants to hear and believe. Tell me, what would the FBI have to gain by instigating or even fueling the January 6th siege on the Capitol when the obvious goal of the mob was to thwart Biden's confirmation?   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 27, 2021, 08:54:43 AM

Goes to prove that desperate people, like Carlson will repeat and invent utter nonsense to feed their audience what it wants to hear and believe. Tell me, what would the FBI have to gain by instigating or even fueling the January 6th siege on the Capitol when the obvious goal of the mob was to thwart Biden's confirmation?   
The hypocrisy with you people is astounding.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 27, 2021, 08:57:41 AM
The hypocrisy with you people is astounding.

"You people"...who would those folks be?
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 27, 2021, 08:59:29 AM
"You people"...who would those folks be?
Brainwashed liberals.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 27, 2021, 09:08:30 AM
Brainwashed liberals.

It is not possible to be both brainwashed and hypocritical at the same time.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 27, 2021, 09:17:57 AM
It is not possible to be both brainwashed and hypocritical at the same time.

BURN!!!
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on June 27, 2021, 12:31:05 PM
It is not possible to be both brainwashed and hypocritical at the same time.
You people are shining examples of brainwashed hypocrisy.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 28, 2021, 02:48:52 PM
If what Straw man posted was actually verbatim for what Pelosi said....then he's right to listen to her, because what he posted is what happened. You are refuting it because because it does fit your agenda. Plain and simple.

Opinion verses fact:

1. Almost no one was searched or arrested on the day of the event....fact 

2. Anyone who illegally entered the building and has been identified is being arrested....fact.

3. They literally broke into the Capitol....fact.

4. The bombs, the gallows, 140 police officers, 5 dead people....all facts.
Bombs outside the Capitol....fact; https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot (https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986457987/what-we-know-about-the-suspect-who-planted-bombs-before-the-capitol-riot)

Gallows….fact; (https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/4b4ba52/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fae%2F5b%2Fdc9a67e34d1b8265190330abc970%2F210115newsfiling-editorial.jpg)

140 officers injured....fact;  https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/  (https://www.wci360.com/more-than-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-riot-chiefs-testify/)

Five people died...fact; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/  (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/)

It's not a fact that everyone broke into the Capitol.  Some were apparently let in.

The "5 people dead" is an incredibly misleading fact.  The only person killed was Ashli Babbitt.  Others were not killed, including Officer Brian Sicknick, who died of a stroke and not from being hit in the head by a fire extinguisher as falsely claimed by the media and some politicians.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 28, 2021, 03:53:08 PM
You people are shining examples of brainwashed hypocrisy.

True story.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 28, 2021, 04:19:22 PM
It's not a fact that everyone broke into the Capitol.  Some were apparently let in.

The "5 people dead" is an incredibly misleading fact.  The only person killed was Ashli Babbitt.  Others were not killed, including Officer Brian Sicknick, who died of a stroke and not from being hit in the head by a fire extinguisher as falsely claimed by the media and some politicians.

Why were they let in? One possibility is that at least a few of the Capitol police and a couple members of Congress were Trump mob sympathizers. Another possibility is they felt threatened to the point of fearing for their lives. They may have been directed to avoid the use of fire arms.

Ask yourself, would have all five of those people have died had the event never happened? It's unlikely that their deaths were just an unfortunate coincidence. Would Brian have had a stroke had he not been subjected to the stress the Capitol police were under that day....we'll never know for sure. But, if this was his first stroke....it seems pretty clear the events of that day at least helped trigger it. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 28, 2021, 04:29:13 PM
Why were they let in? One possibility is that at least a few of the Capitol police and a couple members of Congress were Trump mob sympathizers. Another possibility is they felt threatened to the point of fearing for their lives. They may have been directed to avoid the use of fire arms.

Ask yourself, would have all five of those people have died had the event never happened? It's unlikely that their deaths were just an unfortunate coincidence. Would Brian have had a stroke had he not been subjected to the stress the Capitol police were under that day....we'll never know for sure. But, if this was his first stroke....it seems pretty clear the events of that day at least helped trigger it.

What difference does it make why Capitol police let people in?  If they did so, you contending it is a "fact" that everyone "broke in" is false.

Again, what difference does it make if the people would not have died from preexisting health problems on that day?  The fact is they were not killed by the people at the Capitol and citing the deaths without context is just flat out dishonest.  It feeds into the ongoing false narrative about the "insurrection." 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 28, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
What difference does it make why Capitol police let people in?  If they did so, you contending it is a "fact" that everyone "broke in" is false.

Again, what difference does it make if the people would not have died from preexisting health problems on that day?  The fact is they were not killed by the people at the Capitol and citing the deaths without context is just flat out dishonest.  It feeds into the ongoing false narrative about the "insurrection."

Play your word games if it makes you feel better. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about these arguments anymore. I am done discussing whether the election was stolen from Trump or what people think the January 6th event at the Capitol should be called.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 28, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
Play your word games if it makes you feel better. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about these arguments anymore. I am done discussing whether the election was stolen from Trump or what people think the January 6th event at the Capitol should be called.

Whatever.  Words mean things.  Unless you are a political hack.  What I refuse to do is let the left hijack language.  So you keep saying everyone broke in the Capital, people were killed on 6 January, and that it was an "insurrection" if it makes you feel better. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 29, 2021, 07:01:32 AM
FBI Arrests 69-Year-Old LA Woman for Entering US Capitol “Without Lawful Authority” But Post Photo in Her Case Packet of Capitol Police Holding the Door for Her
GP ^ | 06/28/21 | Joe Hoft
Posted on 6/29/2021, 10:00:46 AM by Enlightened1



The Stasi FBI tracked down, staked out and arrested a 69-year-old woman and Los Angeles County employee on Monday morning for walking into the US Capitol 5 months ago.

Lois Lynn McNicoll was charged with “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”

None of that is true. Lois McNicoll was neither “disorderly” nor “violent” during her walk around the US Capitol on January 6th with hundreds of other American patriots.

And as far as having the “lawful authority” to enter the US Capitol — The FBI slipped up and posted a photo of Lois walking through the door with a US Capitol police officer holding the door for her.



If she was so unwanted inside the US Capitol why were the police holding the doors for her and others?
And it doesn’t matter if this is inside or outside the Capitol Building.

Americans continue to be gaslighted by corrupt leaders.

Politico’s Ryan Reilly reported on the arrest without a hint of disgust.
The left condones this.

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1409573416450015232

A Los Angeles County employee was arrested Monday in the city of Industry on federal charges alleging she was among the crowd that breached the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

Lois Lynn McNicoll, 69, of San Clemente, a Department of Public Social Services employee, made her initial appearance in Los Angeles federal court following her arrest and was released on a $10,000 bond, according to FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller.

McNicoll is charged in federal court in the District of Columbia with knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, according to a federal criminal complaint made public Monday.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 29, 2021, 10:06:40 AM
Whatever.  Words mean things.  Unless you are a political hack.  What I refuse to do is let the left hijack language.  So you keep saying everyone broke in the Capital, people were killed on 6 January, and that it was an "insurrection" if it makes you feel better.

You mean if 'someone' keeps saying these things. I believe people (not everyone) broke into the Capitol. I believe people died as opposed to having been killed as a result of the events on January 6th. I believe no matter what someone chooses to call it, it was wrong.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on June 29, 2021, 12:45:01 PM
You mean if 'someone' keeps saying these things. I believe people (not everyone) broke into the Capitol. I believe people died as opposed to having been killed as a result of the events on January 6th. I believe no matter what someone chooses to call it, it was wrong.

I know people are going to keep calling 6 January an "insurrection."  You sound like brainwashed zombies.  It's fine if you want to walk it back, but don't pretend like you didn't say everyone broke into the Capitol. 


3. They literally broke into the Capitol....fact.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on June 30, 2021, 05:04:16 PM
I know people are going to keep calling 6 January an "insurrection."  You sound like brainwashed zombies.  It's fine if you want to walk it back, but don't pretend like you didn't say everyone broke into the Capitol.

They generally describes more than one. I does not mean everyone unless that is what the writer intended. Obviously not everyone broke into the Capitol. Breaking into means to forcibly enter. Those who broke windows to get in literally broke in. The folks who followed entered unlawfully. Remember, because of COVID the building was closed to visitors and most certainly to intruders.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on July 10, 2021, 01:40:42 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/217210315_4091349157598391_5311700868716267722_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sYJEfCpBNawAX-ejMTQ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=bb181a1f99e03e27811769f41cb5b220&oe=60EDB1F4)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on July 10, 2021, 07:03:56 AM
You don't need google, proper definitions, or investigations to know that CHOP, the BLM riots, and Jan 6th are just the cumulative result of massive political, media, and big tech manipulation of large groups of weak minded sheep.

All were a disaster.

From a media standpoint, it's blatantly obvious that the damage and death tolls from the summer are more glossed over and not reported than the Jan 6th incident.

Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on July 10, 2021, 08:32:39 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/217210315_4091349157598391_5311700868716267722_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sYJEfCpBNawAX-ejMTQ&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=bb181a1f99e03e27811769f41cb5b220&oe=60EDB1F4)
Facts
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on July 14, 2021, 11:28:09 AM
An insurrection where hundreds of people are charged, but none of them charged with insurrection.  Makes sense.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/no-treason-or-sedition-charges-for-january-6th-capitol-rioters-report
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on July 14, 2021, 01:11:19 PM
You don't need google, proper definitions, or investigations to know that CHOP, the BLM riots, and Jan 6th are just the cumulative result of massive political, media, and big tech manipulation of large groups of weak minded sheep.

All were a disaster.

From a media standpoint, it's blatantly obvious that the damage and death tolls from the summer are more glossed over and not reported than the Jan 6th incident.

Yep.  Not in the same universe.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on July 19, 2021, 11:05:33 AM
So the first person sentenced in the "insurrection" was not charged with, convicted of, nor sentenced for insurrection.  He's going to jail for 8 months for obstructing an official proceeding. 

Florida man gets 8 months in prison in 1st felony sentence from Capitol riot
Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, of Tampa, was arrested Feb. 16 and pleaded guilty last month to a single felony count of obstructing an official proceeding.
July 19, 2021
By Pete Williams
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/florida-man-gets-1st-felony-sentence-role-capitol-riot-n1274353?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR38cG7Cs_V3NsPcW5OG_d7O6dn2qCY0dPMIN62NRgjTzZLTz7VMMuShkE0
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on July 19, 2021, 11:17:11 AM
An insurrection where hundreds of people are charged, but none of them charged with insurrection.  Makes sense.

It’s why I’ve said political prisoners.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on July 19, 2021, 12:54:38 PM
It’s why I’ve said political prisoners.

Is it also why you said they are being held without charges?

I'm no legal expert, but my guess is that they've been charged with these individual crimes because they are easier to prove then the crime of insurrection. To successfully prosecute someone for insurrection, they'd have to prove intent. They've been charged with assault, destruction of government property and conspiracy. These are easy to prove, specially since there is video to back up the charges. The conspiracy charge might be a little more difficult to prosecute based solely on video because this also would require proof of intent.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on July 19, 2021, 01:10:07 PM
Is it also why you said they are being held without charges?

I'm no legal expert, but my guess is that they've been charged with these individual crimes because they are easier to prove then the crime of insurrection. To successfully prosecute someone for insurrection, they'd have to prove intent. They've been charged with assault, destruction of government property and conspiracy. These are easy to prove, specially since there is video to back up the charges. The conspiracy charge might be a little more difficult to prosecute based solely on video because this also would require proof of intent.

Intellectually dishonest just like the rest. You know damn well I meant “insurrection” not charges that basically equate to a speeding ticket (sarcasm)
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on July 19, 2021, 01:29:21 PM
Intellectually dishonest just like the rest. You know damn well I meant “insurrection” not charges that basically equate to a speeding ticket (sarcasm)

Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean from the start. Unless I am mistaken, this is the first time you've qualified the "no charges" comment you repeatedly made.

Glad you explained your equivalent to a speeding ticket comment was sarcastic. Apparently, you can learn from your mistakes. Bravo!

As far as being intellectually dishonest, whether you were being sarcastic or not, equating the felony charges they face to that of a speeding ticket is a good example of being dishonest. I can't say intellectually dishonest because there is nothing intelligent about that remark.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on July 19, 2021, 01:39:59 PM
Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean from the start. Unless I am mistaken, this is the first time you've qualified the "no charges" comment you repeatedly made.

Glad you explained your equivalent to a speeding ticket comment was sarcastic. Apparently, you can learn from your mistakes. Bravo!

As far as being intellectually dishonest, whether you were being sarcastic or not, equating the felony charges they face to that of a speeding ticket is a good example of being dishonest. I can't say intellectually dishonest because there is nothing intelligent about that remark.

Really dude? You guys act like you know it all on everything else but when it comes to this fake Insurrection you should know that what I said was implied. So if I have to pull out a fucking chalkboard and draw you pictures and spell it out every time maybe I should do that because otherwise it’ll fly ride over your head
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on July 19, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean from the start. Unless I am mistaken, this is the first time you've qualified the "no charges" comment you repeatedly made.

Glad you explained your equivalent to a speeding ticket comment was sarcastic. Apparently, you can learn from your mistakes. Bravo!

As far as being intellectually dishonest, whether you were being sarcastic or not, equating the felony charges they face to that of a speeding ticket is a good example of being dishonest. I can't say intellectually dishonest because there is nothing intelligent about that remark.

Yeah you've never had a problem with that.   ::)

Pretty obvious what he meant.   
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Skeletor on August 20, 2021, 11:36:44 AM

Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources

The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.

Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.

"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages."

FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on August 20, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources

The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.

Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.

"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages."

FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/

In the least surprising news of the day . . . .
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: chaos on August 20, 2021, 06:23:41 PM
Did I miss the thread straw man started to apologize for spreading fake news ???
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on September 04, 2021, 02:53:59 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTahIvxpc1u/?utm_medium=copy_link

D’oh
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on September 09, 2021, 01:03:48 PM
Pretty interesting and telling comparison, including the estimated damage:  $1.5M for 6 January vs. $1-2B for BLM riots.   

Stark Contrasts: RealClearInvestigations' Jan. 6-BLM Side-by-Side Comparison

By The Editors, RealClearInvestigations
September 09, 2021
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/09/realclearinvestigations_jan_6-blm_comparison_database_791370.html
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on September 10, 2021, 10:34:55 AM
Pretty interesting and telling comparison, including the estimated damage:  $1.5M for 6 January vs. $1-2B for BLM riots.   

Stark Contrasts: RealClearInvestigations' Jan. 6-BLM Side-by-Side Comparison

By The Editors, RealClearInvestigations
September 09, 2021
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/09/realclearinvestigations_jan_6-blm_comparison_database_791370.html
Great link but the libtards will just say it's not from a "credible source."  Anything that doesn't agree with them is not credible.  Since the MSM will never cover this it isn't credible.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Primemuscle on September 10, 2021, 10:41:18 AM
Great link but the libtards will just say it's not from a "credible source."  Anything that doesn't agree with them is not credible.  Since the MSM will never cover this it isn't credible.

There is a reason it is mainstream news. The mainstream media refers to conventional newspapers, television and other news sources that most people know about and regard as reliable.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on September 10, 2021, 11:17:50 AM
There is a reason it is mainstream news. The mainstream media refers to conventional newspapers, television and other news sources that most people know about and regard as reliable.
Most people are clueless.  How anyone could trust the media after years of lying is startling.  The US MSM makes Pravda or Kim Jung Un's news agency look like reliable sources.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Skeletor on September 22, 2021, 12:20:30 AM
A headline from another website sums it up nicely:

Feds decide Feds won’t charge undercover armed Fed discovered at Fed rally


Federal officer arrested at Capitol rally won’t be charged

A federal law enforcement officer was arrested carrying a gun at Saturday’s rally at the U.S. Capitol billed to support the suspects charged in January’s insurrection but will not be prosecuted.

The 27-year-old New Jersey man is an officer with U.S. Customs and Border Protection. He was arrested by Capitol Police for illegally possessing a gun on the grounds of the Capitol after people in the crowd reported seeing him with a handgun and notified nearby officers.

His arrest and presence at the event were surprising because the rally was billed as an event to support those who have been charged in January’s riot.

https://apnews.com/article/arrests-riots-capitol-siege-gun-politics-us-customs-and-border-protection-f35fb9ad54ac0babf710e87eaec8a4b1



Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on September 23, 2021, 07:48:22 AM
Prosecutors Lost A Fight To Keep A Set Of Jan. 6 Capitol Surveillance Videos Under Seal

https://mobile.twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1440776133675388931?s=21
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: AbrahamG on September 23, 2021, 09:12:39 AM
Really dude? You guys act like you know it all on everything else but when it comes to this fake Insurrection you should know that what I said was implied. So if I have to pull out a fucking chalkboard and draw you pictures and spell it out every time maybe I should do that because otherwise it’ll fly ride over your head

If you get out the chalkboard make sure to draw a picture of a big cock. It will help some people stay focused. 🤣
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Coach is Back! on September 23, 2021, 09:23:58 AM
If you get out the chalkboard make sure to draw a picture of a big cock. It will help some people stay focused. 🤣

😂😂😂
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on October 12, 2021, 06:47:37 PM
Good discussion of the "armed insurrection."  So someone showed up, trying to overthrow the federal government, its military, and run the country, using a hockey stick as a weapon.  LOL!

'Armed insurrection': What weapons did the Capitol rioters carry?
Byron York
Tue, October 12, 2021
https://www.yahoo.com/now/armed-insurrection-weapons-did-capitol-220000760.html
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 13, 2021, 11:24:22 AM
Good discussion of the "armed insurrection."  So someone showed up, trying to overthrow the federal government, its military, and run the country, using a hockey stick as a weapon.  LOL!

'Armed insurrection': What weapons did the Capitol rioters carry?
Byron York
Tue, October 12, 2021
https://www.yahoo.com/now/armed-insurrection-weapons-did-capitol-220000760.html
It's all they've got.  The country is coming apart at the seems and they want to blame a bunch of Trump supporters for walking around the Capitol building.  "Let's go Brandon!"
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Skeletor on October 13, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Interesting how the same judge rejected Worrell's health issues back in June and ordered that he be jailed but now finds that Worrell's civil rights were violated and he did have health issues. Will the judge jail the warden for contempt like it happens with ordinary plebs folks? (rhetorical question of course)

Federal judge finds DC jail warden in contempt, demands DOJ civil rights probe of Jan. 6 detainees

A federal judge has found the warden of a D.C. jail and the director of the D.C. Department of Corrections in contempt of court Wednesday and called for an investigation by the Department of Justice to determine whether the jail has violated the civil rights of Jan. 6 defendants.

"For the reasons stated in open court, it is adjudged that the Warden of the D.C. jail Wanda Patten and Director of the D.C. Department of Corrections Quincy Booth are in civil contempt of court," U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth of Washington ruled Wednesday. "The Clerk of the Court is ordered to transmit a copy of this order to the Attorney General of the United States for appropriate inquiry into potential civil rights violations of Jan. 6 defendants, as exemplified in this case."

"I find that the civil rights of the defendant have been abused," Lamberth, a Reagan appointee, said at the hearing. "I don’t know if it’s because he’s a January 6th defendant or not, but I find this matter should be referred to the attorney general of the United States for a civil rights investigation into whether the D.C. Department of Corrections is violating the civil rights of January 6th defendants ... in this and maybe other cases."

Christopher Worrell, the defendant in the specific case who is being charged with several felonies related to the January 6th riot, is being treated for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and has contracted the coronavirus while in jail. Worrell broke his hand in jail in May and was recommended to have surgery in June but in August his lawyers say jail officials have not addressed the injury and have only provided Tylenol and other anti-inflammatories.

The judge’s ruling in Worrell’s case comes after he found there was more than an "inexcusable" delay of jail officials turning over medical documents.

After the judge learned last week that the surgery still hadn’t happened, he ordered the jail system to turn over notes to the U.S. Marshals Service — because Worrell is a federal inmate housed in the local jail — so the Marshals Service could move forward and approve the medical procedure. But on Tuesday, the jail still hadn’t sent the records and the judge ordered the city jail officials to appear in court for a contempt hearing.

A lawyer for the jail had argued that they had been working to get the records together to comply with the court’s order before the contempt hearing was set.

"He’s needed an operation. He hasn’t gotten it," the judge said.

The judge had separately chastised city officials for cutting down the number of rooms in the jail for virtual court visits and for sending an inmate to his court a few weeks ago when they did not have the results of a coronavirus test, saying the "incompetence of jail officials" led to the prisoner being sent back and forth from court without appearing before the judge.

Supporters of those jailed in Washington held a rally on Sept. 18, where they sought to highlight what they said were the disturbing treatment of suspects behind bars there.

A federal law known as the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act -- commonly called CRIPA -- allows prosecutors to review conditions of jails, prisons, and other government-run facilities to identify if there is a systemic pattern of abuse or civil rights violations.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-judge-demands-doj-civil-rights-probe-jan-6-detainees-dc-jail
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Skeletor on October 25, 2021, 12:07:48 PM
This is interesting and raises several questions about this person and his actions. The full story has more interesting details.

Meet Ray Epps: The Fed-Protected Provocateur Who Appears To Have Led The Very First 1/6 Attack On The U.S. Capitol

In a House hearing on Thursday, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) questioned AG Merrick Garland about a mysterious man, Ray Epps, instructing protesters to enter the US Capitol building on January 5, and who later shepherded crowds towards the Capitol on January 6.

The story of the mystery man, Ray Epps, featured in Rep. Massie’s video above is in fact far more shocking than even the good Congressman implies in the hearing. It’s a story so strange, and so scandalous at every turn, that it threatens to shatter the entire official narrative of the “Capitol Breach” and expose yet another dimension of proactive federal involvement in the so-called “insurrection” of January 6th.

If Revolver News’s previous reporting points to a proactive role of the federal government in relation to the conspiracy cases against Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, the Ray Epps story that follows suggests a similar, yet more egregious, explicit, direct and immediate degree of federal involvement in the breach of the Capitol itself.

Here is a transcript of Thomas Massie’s exchange with the Attorney General, just in case you skipped past the video above.

Quote
Rep. Massie: As far as we can determine, the individual who was saying he’ll probably go to jail, he’ll probably be arrested, but they need to go into the Capitol the next day, is then directing people into the Capitol the next day, is then the next day directing people to the Capitol. And as far as we can find. You said this is one of the most sweeping in history. Have you seen that video, or those frames from that video?

AG Garland: So as I said at the outset, one of the norms of the Justice Department is to not comment on pending investigations, and particularly not to comment on particular scenes or particular individuals.

Rep. Massie: I was hoping today to give you an opportunity to put to rest the concerns that people have that there were federal agents or assets of the federal government present on January 5 and January 6. Can you tell us, without talking about particular incidents or particular videos, how many agents or assets of the federal government were present on January 6, whether they agitated to go into the Capitol, and if any of them did?

AG Garland: So I’m not going to violate this norm of, uh, of, of, of, the rule of law.

[Looks down and away]

I’m not going to comment on an investigation that’s ongoing.

There is good reason why AG Garland ran from Massie’s question faster than he could find words — and why he couldn’t even keep eye contact as he was dodging Massie’s gaze.

After months of research, Revolver’s investigative reporting team can now reveal that Ray Epps appears to be among the primary orchestrators of the very first breach of the Capitol’s police barricades at 12:50pm on January 6. Epps appears to have led the “breach team” that committed the very first illegal acts on that fateful day. What’s more, Epps and his “breach team” did all their dirty work with 10 minutes still remaining in President Trump’s National Mall speech, and with the vast majority of Trump supporters still 30 minutes away from the Capitol.

Secondly, Revolver also determined, and will prove below, that the the FBI stealthily removed Ray Epps from its Capitol Violence Most Wanted List on July 1, just one day after Revolver exposed the inexplicable and puzzlesome FBI protection of known Epps associate and Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes. July 1 was also just one day after separate New York Times report amplified a glaring, falsifiable lie about Epps’s role in the events of January 6.

Lastly, Ray Epps appears to have worked alongside several individuals — many of them suspiciously unindicted — to carry out a breach of the police barricades that induced a subsequent flood of unsuspecting MAGA protesters to unwittingly trespass on Capitol restricted grounds and place themselves in legal jeopardy.

https://www.revolver.news/2021/10/meet-ray-epps-the-fed-protected-provocateur-who-appears-to-have-led-the-very-first-1-6-attack-on-the-u-s-capitol/

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2021/10/22/arizona-man-capitol-riot-house-hearings-thomas-massie-merrick-garland/6135771001/


Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on October 25, 2021, 01:05:03 PM
Read that Revlover article...super thorough, and very interesting.

But, in summary, the FBI accidently put out the "find him" for a guy they had on their team all along?

Doesn't sound right that they could fuck that up for a full half a year.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on October 25, 2021, 01:10:34 PM
Read that Revlover article...super thorough, and very interesting.

But, in summary, the FBI accidently put out the "find him" for a guy they had on their team all along?

Doesn't sound right that they could fuck that up for a full half a year.

You talking about the same FBI that falsely accused Carter Page of being a Russian spy despite knowing he was actually working with the FBI (or CIA), and lying to a FISA court about it? 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on October 25, 2021, 01:52:28 PM
You talking about the same FBI that falsely accused Carter Page of being a Russian spy despite knowing he was actually working with the the FBI (or CIA), and lying to a FISA court about it?

Yeah.

This just seems different.  This guy was easy to find too.  Like super easy.

We'll see.

The BLM guy agitating seems more plausible.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on October 25, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
Yeah.

This just seems different.  This guy was easy to find too.  Like super easy.

We'll see.

The BLM guy agitating seems more plausible.

Nothing surprises me about these people anymore, especially when you have an FBI lawyer falsifying documents and other agents fabricating charges against people for political purposes. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Grape Ape on October 25, 2021, 02:04:34 PM
Nothing surprises me about these people anymore, especially when you have an FBI lawyer falsifying documents and other agents fabricating charges against people for political purposes.

I totally get that.

Interested to see where this goes.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Dos Equis on October 25, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
I totally get that.

Interested to see where this goes.

Oh I have a prediction:  other than making rounds on conservative media and podcasts, it's likely going absolutely nowhere. 
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Straw Man on October 25, 2021, 02:21:21 PM
.
Title: Re: "Insurrection"
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 26, 2021, 04:42:45 AM
Trump-Trump-Trump-Trump-Trump-Trump-Trump--Trump sodomized my brain--Trump-Trump-Trump-I will never recover--Trump-Trump-Trump