Finally! ROEs are adjusted to allow military to do it's job!!

[Dos Equis]

Or, as most ordinary people will say when confronted with how they wold vote, democrat or republican:  "Depends on the issue" 

You're assuming most ordinary people do not consider themselves Democrat or Republican.  I know lots of people who vote for their party.     

[ieffinhatecardio]

Independent sounds a little lonely.  I like moderate, although usually refer to myself as a semi-dem.

Have really grown fond of the moniker commie pinko though... reminds me of women in "dungarees" and checkered shirts. 

The one thing that I think defines an independent (my preferred term) or moderate is an unwillingness to either believe or spew party line rhetoric. Look at this board for example, are there not posters on here that will defend their parties view no matter what? Even in the face of overwhelming evidence? I'm not singling anyone out because both Democrats and Republicans do it. The current Republican Administration is just such a disgrace that the conservatives are the ones showing it the most right now but when there is a Democratic Administration in the White House the Liberals will be doing the same thing.

To me it makes more sense to vote by your opinion of individual politicians than it does to vote by party lines. It's the same with political views, why not look at each issue independently rather than simply following what a party line says?

I would bet if everyone did that the majority of people would find that they're fiscal conservatives and socially liberal.

[OzmO]

You're assuming most ordinary people do not consider themselves Democrat or Republican.  I know lots of people who vote for their party.     

Well, did most of the eligible voters vote in the last election?

I don't know for sure, but i think it wasn't the majority of them.

I'm sure most people consider themselves one of the other, but i think a great many of them, most, will vote based on the issue and not out of party loyalty.

[OzmO]

The one thing that I think defines an independent (my preferred term) or moderate is an unwillingness to either believe or spew party line rhetoric. Look at this board for example, are there not posters on here that will defend their parties view no matter what? Even in the face of overwhelming evidence? I'm not singling anyone out because both Democrats and Republicans do it. The current Republican Administration is just such a disgrace that the conservatives are the ones showing it the most right now but when there is a Democratic Administration in the White House the Liberals will be doing the same thing.

To me it makes more sense to vote by your opinion of individual politicians than it does to vote by party lines. It's the same with political views, why not look at each issue independently rather than simply following what a party line says?

I would bet if everyone did that the majority of people would find that they're fiscal conservatives and socially liberal.

I wouldn't be surprised by that.

[Dos Equis]

Well, did most of the eligible voters vote in the last election?

I don't know for sure, but i think it wasn't the majority of them.

I'm sure most people consider themselves one of the other, but i think a great many of them, most, will vote based on the issue and not out of party loyalty.

I don't remember the numbers, but we have one of the worst voter turnouts in the industrialized world.  It's pathetic.

If we're talking about the people who actually vote, I think the vast majority of them are solid party voters, probably 40 percent each.  That middle approximately 20 percent are the ones who really control the elections.  (I am making assumptions.) 

[240 is Back]

That middle approximately 20 percent are the ones who really control the elections.  (I am making assumptions.) 

you're pretty close.  something like the same 10% of people have decided every election for decades.  They voted for reagan, then clinton, then split in 2000 and 2004. 

the 40% right and the 40% left don't do anything but argue on message boards trying to convince the middle 20% their party is slightly less evil.

[Dos Equis]

you're pretty close.  something like the same 10% of people have decided every election for decades.  They voted for reagan, then clinton, then split in 2000 and 2004. 

the 40% right and the 40% left don't do anything but argue on message boards trying to convince the middle 20% their party is slightly less evil.

I pretty much agree.  That's why I voted for Clinton twice and Bush twice.  I have the power.     It's still early, but I will likely vote for a Republican this election too. 

[OzmO]

you're pretty close.  something like the same 10% of people have decided every election for decades.  They voted for reagan, then clinton, then split in 2000 and 2004. 

the 40% right and the 40% left don't do anything but argue on message boards trying to convince the middle 20% their party is slightly less evil.

LMAO!

[Deedee]

The one thing that I think defines an independent (my preferred term) or moderate is an unwillingness to either believe or spew party line rhetoric. Look at this board for example, are there not posters on here that will defend their parties view no matter what? Even in the face of overwhelming evidence? I'm not singling anyone out because both Democrats and Republicans do it. The current Republican Administration is just such a disgrace that the conservatives are the ones showing it the most right now but when there is a Democratic Administration in the White House the Liberals will be doing the same thing.

To me it makes more sense to vote by your opinion of individual politicians than it does to vote by party lines. It's the same with political views, why not look at each issue independently rather than simply following what a party line says?

I would bet if everyone did that the majority of people would find that they're fiscal conservatives and socially liberal.

I'm inclined to agree with you... there are many people here who start off their posts with an insult directed toward the other party before they've even thought out the point they want to make. Others force party associations when the issue being discussed has nothing to with anything but common sense, or sometimes, common decency. Two party systems tend to polarize people... although, occasionally it is amusing to note just how closely some people fit the stereotypes associated with either party.

[240 is Back]

I pretty much agree.  That's why I voted for Clinton twice and Bush twice.  I have the power.     It's still early, but I will likely vote for a Republican this election too. 

I'm up in the air.  I want to see corruption end.  mcCain has aligned himself to be the next haliburton puppet.  The others have not. I don't want corporations running the nation anther 4 years. 

[militarymuscle69]

Documents show the US is setting the oil prices we will buy for.  Ribo posted them.  

Think about that.

You're shooting people, partly because you want to tell them what price you'll pay for their oil.

If I punch you in the eye and tell you I'll give you $50 for your truck, is that stealing? Yes.

well considering if Saddam was still in power all the money would be in his pocket I think we have a little right to be able to set a price

[OzmO]

well considering if Saddam was still in power all the money would be in his pocket I think we have a little right to be able to set a price

And shouldn't we the people be benefiting from that?

[militarymuscle69]

And shouldn't we the people be benefiting from that?

No shit!!! I don't get that part

[The Enigma]

well considering if Saddam was still in power all the money would be in his pocket I think we have a little right to be able to set a price

It's nice to see everyone having an intelligent conversation w/o insults.

Great job guys....and girls!!

[240 is Back]

No shit!!! I don't get that part

Okay.

1) You admit we're benefitting from it?

2) Are you admitting we are getting oil for less-than-market value?

3) Are you agreeing with it?

[militarymuscle69]

Okay.

1) You admit we're benefitting from it?

2) Are you admitting we are getting oil for less-than-market value?

3) Are you agreeing with it?

I don't know if we are getting it less than market value, The prices are awful high if we are. But like I said, the money we give them for oil now will be shared amongst the 3 sects. Before only one person got it. We are the reason they are getting it so why can't we dictate the price?

[240 is Back]

I don't know if we are getting it less than market value, The prices are awful high if we are. But like I said, the money we give them for oil now will be shared amongst the 3 sects. Before only one person got it. We are the reason they are getting it so why can't we dictate the price?

To tell a soverign nation at what price they will sell oil to you is stealing.

Try that in real life.  Walk into Walmart and tell them you'll take this basket of groceries and you'll pay them $5 for all of it.  After all, you kept the place safe while you were there.  You SHOULD be able to set the price, right?

Nope.  It's stealing.  Sooner you admit that, sooner you will admit to yourself that *part* of the reason we're there is to steal oil. 

[militarymuscle69]

To tell a soverign nation at what price they will sell oil to you is stealing.

Try that in real life.  Walk into Walmart and tell them you'll take this basket of groceries and you'll pay them $5 for all of it.  After all, you kept the place safe while you were there.  You SHOULD be able to set the price, right?

Nope.  It's stealing.  Sooner you admit that, sooner you will admit to yourself that *part* of the reason we're there is to steal oil. 

What is walmart was being held up by a bunch of robbers, they had hostages and what not...I go in and save them and save the store...You think they might give me a discount?

[240 is Back]

What is walmart was being held up by a bunch of robbers, they had hostages and what not...I go in and save them and save the store...You think they might give me a discount?

If they OFFERED you a discount, that's splendid.

But if they didn't offer - and you INSISTED on paying $5 for those groceries at gunpoint - would that be stealing?

[240 is Back]

What is walmart was being held up by a bunch of robbers, they had hostages and what not...I go in and save them and save the store...You think they might give me a discount?

See - they WANT to sell it at market price!

We won't let them.  They have to sell it to us at a far lower price.  So they lose money.

If you don't see forced discounts as stealing, I don't know what to tell ya.

[militarymuscle69]

See - they WANT to sell it at market price!

We won't let them.  They have to sell it to us at a far lower price.  So they lose money.

If you don't see forced discounts as stealing, I don't know what to tell ya.

What do have that says we are FORCING them, You don't think they are willing to sell it to us cheaper out of thanks?

[240 is Back]

What do have that says we are FORCING them, You don't think they are willing to sell it to us cheaper out of thanks?

oh.
my.
god.

[militarymuscle69]

oh.
my.
god.

serious, if Maliki hates us so bad why doesn't he just say "fuck you get your oil somewhere else" I mean there is no way he is happy to just be getting some money.......as opposed to Saddam getting it all.

[240 is Back]

serious, if Maliki hates us so bad why doesn't he just say "fuck you get your oil somewhere else" I mean there is no way he is happy to just be getting some money.......as opposed to Saddam getting it all.

what do you think would happen if tomorrow morning, maliki woke up and said:

1) Please leave, USA
2) We will no longer sell you oil at a discount

?

[militarymuscle69]

what do you think would happen if tomorrow morning, maliki woke up and said:

1) Please leave, USA
2) We will no longer sell you oil at a discount

?

lol, so we are turning to conjecture again. Why do you always turn to this when I show that you can't back what you say... priceless