Industry News & Notes:

[Playboy]

Yeah, and back then, you had bookers (who were from a wrestling background) deciding on feuds and who would go over, etc., but more was left to the wrestlers insofar as how to get there.

Or, your booker would tell you to go do a 4-minute interview to put over an upcoming match, or feud, but the delivery was up to you.

Nowadays, everything is spoon-fed.
Characters are assigned.
Entire dialogues are written out.

I don’t think management trusts the current talent to manage those things, and rightfully so.
Most of the current crop never had a chance to develop those skills.

This right here is whats ruining the product.

For example....Stone Cold Steve Austin was born when he ran his own promo and said "Austin 3:16 just whipped your ass."

[The Showstoppa]

This right here is whats ruining the product.

For example....Stone Cold Steve Austin was born when he ran his own promo and said "Austin 3:16 just whipped your ass."

Almost ALL of the best stuff was just off the cuff... some of my favs were, I think it was Arn or JJ, who just casually referred to all of them as the four horsemen in an interview....no "writer" came up with it and it wasn't even intended to try to be a brandname or anything.  Also, Jake Roberts psycho stuff was just him being him.....same with Buzz Sawyer.....same with Kevin Sullivan in Fla and Ga.......I could go on and on....

[Playboy]

Almost ALL of the best stuff was just off the cuff... some of my favs were, I think it was Arn or JJ, who just casually referred to all of them as the four horsemen in an interview....no "writer" came up with it and it wasn't even intended to try to be a brandname or anything.  Also, Jake Roberts psycho stuff was just him being him.....same with Buzz Sawyer.....same with Kevin Sullivan in Fla and Ga.......I could go on and on....

You're absolutely right on that one. Especially the horseman promos and the jake roberts promos.

[Montague]

PWInsider.com is reporting that Hollywood actor Freddie Prinze, Jr, who was a former Raw guest host, has returned to WWE's creative team. Prinze, Jr made his return to WWE this past Monday night on Raw, and is reportedly now working as a producer and director of WWE TV shows.

[The Showstoppa]

PWInsider.com is reporting that Hollywood actor Freddie Prinze, Jr, who was a former Raw guest host, has returned to WWE's creative team. Prinze, Jr made his return to WWE this past Monday night on Raw, and is reportedly now working as a producer and director of WWE TV shows.

That shit makes me sick.  ANYBODY on this board could do a better job. 

[Montague]

Even though they weren’t from a wrestling background, it wasn’t as bad when Vince had Russo & Ferrara doing the writing, but that’s because those two came up with lots of ideas and the old man picked the top three or four.
Then, he usually tweaked and reworked those ideas - sometimes so much that they bore little resemblance to the original.

The idea, here, is that Vince was very actively involved.

It seems as though he's put more/too much creative power in the hands of others, now.

[Playboy]

Even though they weren’t from a wrestling background, it wasn’t as bad when Vince had Russo & Ferrara doing the writing, but that’s because those two came up with lots of ideas and the old man picked the top three or four.
Then, he usually tweaked and reworked those ideas - sometimes so much that they bore little resemblance to the original.

The idea, here, is that Vince was very actively involved.

It seems as though he's put more/too much creative power in the hands of others, now.

My "source" told me that Vince is involved in EVERYTHING behind that curtain. He nixes storylines that he feels are not adequate enough or changes them completely which pisses off alot of the writers / bookers because they bust their asses conjuring up these storylines only to have them nixed. This is the main reason why Paul Heyman was released. He would come up with major storylines that work, then Stephanie (who's the head of creative) would get the ok from her father to change it. Heyman would scrap it out with her on a regular basis.

[Montague]

My "source" told me that Vince is involved in EVERYTHING behind that curtain. He nixes storylines that he feels are not adequate enough or changes them completely which pisses off alot of the writers / bookers because they bust their asses conjuring up these storylines only to have them nixed. This is the main reason why Paul Heyman was released. He would come up with major storylines that work, then Stephanie (who's the head of creative) would get the ok from her father to change it. Heyman would scrap it out with her on a regular basis.

Wow!
Then, I guess that means that either Vince is okaying stupid shit, the writers aren't producing anything decent to choose from, or a combination of both.
 

[Playboy]

Wow!
Then, I guess that means that either Vince is okaying stupid shit, the writers aren't producing anything decent to choose from, or a combination of both.
 

Sad isn't it? That's why WWE product has really gone down hill. They were huge in the mid to late eighties and then wne down, came back up in the late nineties thanks to the Rock & Austin and then slowly declined.

[The Showstoppa]

I think vince really doesn't care that much anymore.  He is just coasting it out. 

[Montague]

I think vince really doesn't care that much anymore.  He is just coasting it out. 

You may be right.
I just never thought his ego would allow him to do that.

[Playboy]

You may be right.
I just never thought his ego would allow him to do that.

It doesn't surprise me one bit. Did you guys know that in the eighties when Dynamite Kid hurt his back, Vince wanted to put the tag team titles on Sheik & Volkoff? He then told Dynamite while he was in the hospital with his bad back that he wanted him to fed ex the tag title to head office in conneticut. Dynamite told him to F**K a duck and said no way. If we lose the titles it will only be to the Harts as they had paid their dues. Vince wasn't about to argue with Dynamite given his tough backstage non-nonsence persona. Vince did MANY stupid things.

[Montague]

It doesn't surprise me one bit. Did you guys know that in the eighties when Dynamite Kid hurt his back, Vince wanted to put the tag team titles on Sheik & Volkoff? He then told Dynamite while he was in the hospital with his bad back that he wanted him to fed ex the tag title to head office in conneticut. Dynamite told him to F**K a duck and said no way. If we lose the titles it will only be to the Harts as they had paid their dues. Vince wasn't about to argue with Dynamite given his tough backstage non-nonsence persona. Vince did MANY stupid things.

The old man tried twice to get the belts while Dyno was laid up.
He sent Bret the first time, which is when Tom gave Bret the "fukk-off" message to relay.
For the second attempt, Vince phoned Tom personally and started the conversation by saying, "You were right not to give the belts to Bret..."

What an assinine thing to say!
If Dynamite was right to keep them, they wouldn't even be having a conversation about it.

[Playboy]

The old man tried twice to get the belts while Dyno was laid up.
He sent Bret the first time, which is when Tom gave Bret the "fukk-off" message to relay.
For the second attempt, Vince phoned Tom personally and started the conversation by saying, "You were right not to give the belts to Bret..."

What an assinine thing to say!
If Dynamite was right to keep them, they wouldn't even be having a conversation about it.

That's correct. But can you imagine the titles on Sheik & Volkoff? Ouch.

[Montague]

Oh, I agree with you on that.
I was only tying Vince’s “you were right to keep them” bullshit line to other stupid things he’s said & done.

But, yeah - Sheik & Nikko could only have been transitional champs at best; the same way they put the big strap on Sheik just so that he could feed it to Hulkster thirty minutes later.

[Playboy]

Oh, I agree with you on that.
I was only tying Vince’s “you were right to keep them” bullshit line to other stupid things he’s said & done.

But, yeah - Sheik & Nikko could only have been transitional champs at best; the same way they put the big strap on Sheik just so that he could feed it to Hulkster thirty minutes later.

I think just like others, Vince feared Billington. Plain and simple. Even Randy Savage said that he would ask Billington to watch his back when they went to bars in towns after shows that NWA wrestlers would frequent.

Lol on the Sheik comment.

[The Showstoppa]

It's a good think Sheik has let that go.......

[Montague]

LOL!!!
I assume you guys are familiar with the legend surrounding Sheik, Verne Gagne, and the WWF title?

[Playboy]

It's a good think Sheik has let that go.......

I give Sheik credit though for snapping on Warrior at an autograph signing. Warrior being his usual dickhead self didn't want to sign near Sheik and Sheik litterally freaked on him.  

[The Showstoppa]

I love Sheik....he's batshit crazy and lived/lives his gimmick as much as anybody.

[Playboy]

I love Sheik....he's batshit crazy and lived/lives his gimmick as much as anybody.

He told the Warrior in front of about 300 people that he was gonna put him in the camel clutch, break his back and f**k him in the a$$, LMAO. Warrior just stood there speechless for once in his miserable life.

[The Showstoppa]

He told the Warrior in front of about 300 people that he was gonna put him in the camel clutch, break his back and f**k him in the a$$, LMAO. Warrior just stood there speechless for once in his miserable life.

I'm rereading Flair's book and he is talking about when he was training under Gagne.....he was in the same class as Sheik, Patera, Brunzell, G. Gagne, and a couple of others.  He mentioned that Billy Robinson, a shooter, was one of the trainers and heard that Sheik said that Billy couldn't "turn him over."  Robinson called Sheik out and after 10 mins of not being able to turn him, he kneed Sheik in the thigh so badly that he was able to turn him....guess the rules in the olympics and pro's are different? haha....anways Flair said most everybody thought Billy as an asshole and didn't want to work with him.  Sailor White beat him down in a dressing room one time and then pissed on him....haha

[Playboy]

I'm rereading Flair's book and he is talking about when he was training under Gagne.....he was in the same class as Sheik, Patera, Brunzell, G. Gagne, and a couple of others.  He mentioned that Billy Robinson, a shooter, was one of the trainers and heard that Sheik said that Billy couldn't "turn him over."  Robinson called Sheik out and after 10 mins of not being able to turn him, he kneed Sheik in the thigh so badly that he was able to turn him....guess the rules in the olympics and pro's are different? haha....anways Flair said most everybody thought Billy as an asshole and didn't want to work with him.  Sailor White beat him down in a dressing room one time and then pissed on him....haha

Good story. The old AWA breed some of the finest wrestlers in the world.

[Montague]

I'm rereading Flair's book and he is talking about when he was training under Gagne.....he was in the same class as Sheik, Patera, Brunzell, G. Gagne, and a couple of others.  He mentioned that Billy Robinson, a shooter, was one of the trainers and heard that Sheik said that Billy couldn't "turn him over."  Robinson called Sheik out and after 10 mins of not being able to turn him, he kneed Sheik in the thigh so badly that he was able to turn him....guess the rules in the olympics and pro's are different? haha....anways Flair said most everybody thought Billy as an asshole and didn't want to work with him.  Sailor White beat him down in a dressing room one time and then pissed on him....haha

By most accounts, I’ve heard that Robinson was a prick.

He was quite good at the “catch-as-catch-can” style that evolved with the Wigan coalminers.
The problem was, he relied entirely on that style, which - while “realistic” - was a total bore to watch during a pro show.

Also, because of his combined cockiness and skill, promoters were often afraid to give him a belt because, if he wanted to, he could keep it by refusing to job.
There’ weren’t many guys who could beat him legit.

Robinson was also known to work stiff & intentionally hurt guys during matches.
WTF kind of worker is that?

[The Showstoppa]

By most accounts, I’ve heard that Robinson was a prick.

He was quite good at the “catch-as-catch-can” style that evolved with the Wigan coalminers.
The problem was, he relied entirely on that style, which - while “realistic” - was a total bore to watch during a pro show.

Also, because of his combined cockiness and skill, promoters were often afraid to give him a belt because, if he wanted to, he could keep it by refusing to job.
There’ weren’t many guys who could beat him legit.

Robinson was also known to work stiff & intentionally hurt guys during matches.
WTF kind of worker is that?

Thats exactly what Flair said.  His early road stories are the best.....literally has me laughing my ass off even on the second read.