What should a first time juicer take?

[ProudVirgin69]

^^^^that's a serious fuckin cycle

[no one]

such heavy cycles? lol a gram of test and 500 tren? lol.. bwahahaha.

you know, it's the pieces of shit like yourself who advocate the minimal doses for 2 reasons...

reason 1, you yourself use 2-3x the amount and are too insecure (and you ARE insecure, just judging my your posts it's blatant) to tell others the 'truth' and would rather hold others back to make yourself look 'better'.

reason 2, you yourself have zero experience using higher doses.. which brings back the 'the world is flat' analogy. you have no experience with something, yet you cry about it being dangerous and all the bad things that come with it. i.e. you're talking out of your ass.

actually, no bozo. im a 235 pound 6% male who dwarfs you. i look like a god compared to the fucking disaster you are. as of 4 weeks ago for the summer i am using 1ml of summit winstrol every other day, and a 350 mg shot of tren e/mast e/ and e every 5 days. lol 2-3 times. bitch please.

the REASON i tell other to not use the cycles you adivse isnt because im worried about anyone looking better than me, as theres always someone better than me somewhere, but because its not needed. at all. WHAT THE FUCK DOES A FIRST TIME USER NEED 2G OF GEAR FOR YOU FUCKING CLOWN? lol my god your DENSE. like DUMB. jesus.

no experience w higher doses eh? i dont know many guys who have run 2g of tren ace a week alone. i have. know why i dont 'recommend' stupidly high doses? because they are not necessary. dont talk about things you have no clue about. it only makes you look more stupid and ignorant that you already come across as being.

how you ever looked in the mirror and asked yourself why you look like shit? like have you ever wondered why the fuck dont you look good despite the shit you use?

ever think that maybe, just MAYBE your body cant utilise properly the shit your pumping yourself full of? ever think that maybe more isnt better, that being smart is better?-and no, im not going to tell you how you could be doing it better, cause your a know it all who id be wasting my words on- of course not, you wouldnt think that maybe theres something else different you could be doing. because your not smart. your a clown who thinks the be all end all is in the needle, and how many ml he can jam in his ass.

and thats why you look like shit, and so will anyone else whos unfortunate enough to listen to your stupidity

and ps dont call me a piece of shit. thats not very nice.

[Simple Simon]

actually, no bozo. im a 235 pound 6% male who dwarfs you. i look like a god compared to the fucking disaster you are. as of 4 weeks ago for the summer i am using 1ml of summit winstrol every other day, and a 350 mg shot of tren e/mast e/ and e every 5 days. lol 2-3 times. bitch please.

the REASON i tell other to not use the cycles you adivse isnt because im worried about anyone looking better than me, as theres always someone better than me somewhere, but because its not needed. at all. WHAT THE FUCK DOES A FIRST TIME USER NEED 2G OF GEAR FOR YOU FUCKING CLOWN? lol my god your DENSE. like DUMB. jesus.

no experience w higher doses eh? i dont know many guys who have run 2g of tren ace a week alone. i have. know why i dont 'recommend' stupidly high doses? because they are not necessary. dont talk about things you have no clue about. it only makes you look more stupid and ignorant that you already come across as being.

how you ever looked in the mirror and asked yourself why you look like shit? like have you ever wondered why the fuck dont you look good despite the shit you use?

ever think that maybe, just MAYBE your body cant utilise properly the shit your pumping yourself full of? ever think that maybe more isnt better, that being smart is better?-and no, im not going to tell you how you could be doing it better, cause your a know it all who id be wasting my words on- of course not, you wouldnt think that maybe theres something else different you could be doing. because your not smart. your a clown who thinks the be all end all is in the needle, and how many ml he can jam in his ass.

and thats why you look like shit, and so will anyone else whos unfortunate enough to listen to your stupidity

and ps dont call me a piece of shit. thats not very nice.

[Simple Simon]

ever think that maybe, just MAYBE your body cant utilise properly the shit your pumping yourself full of? ever think that maybe more isnt better, that being smart is better?-and no, im not going to tell you how you could be doing it better, cause your a know it all who id be wasting my words on- of course not, you wouldnt think that maybe theres something else different you could be doing. because your not smart. your a clown who thinks the be all end all is in the needle, and how many ml he can jam in his ass.

He has already admitted that apart from vascularity and a bit of additional hardness he looks the same off 1 gram as he does of 6gms, then I think the answer is staring him in the face.
I think he just likes to be the guy in the gym who takes the most.

TBH I think 90% of his gear is bunk.
200mgs of ISIS Parabolon and Im night sweating like a turkey on Christmas Eve.

[ESFitness]

For the record, I couldnt give a flying fuck what esfitness takes himself to look as bad as he does, its the advice he dispenses to others, especially threads like this regarding a first ever course.
Do you realise that could cause some serious sides to a first time user?
I use 250mgs test a week, if I go to 500 I bloat and smooth over and any more than that generally feel unwell.

You also have advised in another post/thread, rather than drop your dose because of sides to take additional compounds to alleviate them?
Did it ever occur to you "sides" might be your bodies way of telling you its too much?

Just because you are a steroid "cum bucket" and they dont work on you dont presume everyone else is your genetic equal.

if you're afraid of 'side effects', maybe you shouldn't be using any steroids at all in the first place and stick to HRT and refrain from giving out steroid advice.. especially based on your very limited experience.

and I 'presume' everyone else is my genetic equal? dude, you're a straight up liar.. you make up this shit in your head and for whatever reason you believe it and expect others to believe it as well.. when did I ever say I assume everyone else is my genetic equal? lol

btw... am I the only one who's ever said run a gram of cyp and 500 tren e a week for a first cycle? lol

you're an clown dude. if I were you, I'd just hang myself and be done with it. your life is miserable.. waking up each morning with your mind occupied with what others are doing on a message board. you're 50yrs old, a nobody, washed up never-was bodybuilder who took last place at a bodybuilding show (at least you did the show.. then again, just shows how delusional you are, even though you lost, you're relegated to 'owning' people on bbing boards. lol.. fuckiig loser)... just hang yourself

[ESFitness]

actually, no bozo. im a 235 pound 6% male who dwarfs you. i look like a god compared to the fucking disaster you are. as of 4 weeks ago for the summer i am using 1ml of summit winstrol every other day, and a 350 mg shot of tren e/mast e/ and e every 5 days. lol 2-3 times. bitch please.

the REASON i tell other to not use the cycles you adivse isnt because im worried about anyone looking better than me, as theres always someone better than me somewhere, but because its not needed. at all. WHAT THE FUCK DOES A FIRST TIME USER NEED 2G OF GEAR FOR YOU FUCKING CLOWN? lol my god your DENSE. like DUMB. jesus.

no experience w higher doses eh? i dont know many guys who have run 2g of tren ace a week alone. i have. know why i dont 'recommend' stupidly high doses? because they are not necessary. dont talk about things you have no clue about. it only makes you look more stupid and ignorant that you already come across as being.

how you ever looked in the mirror and asked yourself why you look like shit? like have you ever wondered why the fuck dont you look good despite the shit you use?

ever think that maybe, just MAYBE your body cant utilise properly the shit your pumping yourself full of? ever think that maybe more isnt better, that being smart is better?-and no, im not going to tell you how you could be doing it better, cause your a know it all who id be wasting my words on- of course not, you wouldnt think that maybe theres something else different you could be doing. because your not smart. your a clown who thinks the be all end all is in the needle, and how many ml he can jam in his ass.

and thats why you look like shit, and so will anyone else whos unfortunate enough to listen to your stupidity

and ps dont call me a piece of shit. thats not very nice.

i'll call you whatever I like, dimwit. you attack me, and you get what you get. you and your fanboys post up lies and think that if you repeat them enough, ppl will believe them.. so, you are a piece of shit.

lol@ you dwarfing me.

you realize how pathetic you are? you're an old man on a message board telling others how great you look... most of us grow out of that when we're 17 on these msg boards. yet, here you are, old enough to be the grandparent of some 17yr old kids baby, still going on about it. 50yrs old and still using steroids to "look good at the beach" and "look like a god" compared to other guys on msg boards? lol... that's pathetic... straight up pathetic. dieting and starving yourself so you look 'good'? for what?? lol.. so some girls who you'll NEVER fuck or have a relationship with (due to your complete lack of social skills) will give you a second glance? lol... absolutely pathetic.. and even at 50yrs old, you still haven't figured it out yet.

you want to talk about me and my advice being dangerous? lol.. dude you're 50 and still running tren, mast, winstrol, test and gh!... what's your PSA? how many times do you get up at night to piss? have fun at your next prostate exam.. fucking moron.

[Simple Simon]

if you're afraid of 'side effects', maybe you shouldn't be using any steroids at all in the first place and stick to HRT and refrain from giving out steroid advice.. especially based on your very limited experience.

and I 'presume' everyone else is my genetic equal? dude, you're a straight up liar.. you make up this shit in your head and for whatever reason you believe it and expect others to believe it as well.. when did I ever say I assume everyone else is my genetic equal? lol

btw... am I the only one who's ever said run a gram of cyp and 500 tren e a week for a first cycle? lol

you're an clown dude. if I were you, I'd just hang myself and be done with it. your life is miserable.. waking up each morning with your mind occupied with what others are doing on a message board. you're 50yrs old, a nobody, washed up never-was bodybuilder who took last place at a bodybuilding show (at least you did the show.. then again, just shows how delusional you are, even though you lost, you're relegated to 'owning' people on bbing boards. lol.. fuckiig loser)... just hang yourself

I get up every morning and look in the mirror and I stop....."is this really a 49 year old guy looking back at me?"

What do you see in the mirror?
A bloated mess with oil filled shoulders and 40 inch waist desperately wanting what I have.
The ability to look great with not a lot of effort.

You are chasing the impossible star, its never going to happen for you, nothing has happened up to now, what makes you think tomorrows going to be any different?

Keep chucking in the placebos because your gear cant be real.

As for being afraid of side effects, Im aware of them and I act accordingly, if I feel like shit, I listen to my body, you on the other hand just chuck in another pharmaceutical.

It will all end in tears, you will look in the mirror at 49 and think, "I wish this fucking oil would dissipate out of my shoulders now everything else has disappeared"

Thats if you ever get to 49

As for this

btw... am I the only one who's ever said run a gram of cyp and 500 tren e a week for a first cycle? lol

You are in this thread, its just guys like GH15 who used to spout shit like that.

[ESFitness]

If food is the problem why you're not getting enough growth then why are you fat in those photos?

fat? lol

I still have abs and serratus, dude.

don't confuse water retention with fat.

and what 'photos'? the little billboard photo? that was at 15-17% bf, a few days after my release, after 5yrs of 200mg cyp every two weeks (legit hrt) eating ramen noodles and 4 jars of peanut butter a week, just trying to maintain a 230+ bodyweight.

[Simple Simon]

i'll call you whatever I like, dimwit. you attack me, and you get what you get. you and your fanboys post up lies and think that if you repeat them enough, ppl will believe them.. so, you are a piece of shit.

lol@ you dwarfing me.

you realize how pathetic you are? you're an old man on a message board telling others how great you look... most of us grow out of that when we're 17 on these msg boards. yet, here you are, old enough to be the grandparent of some 17yr old kids baby, still going on about it. 50yrs old and still using steroids to "look good at the beach" and "look like a god" compared to other guys on msg boards? lol... that's pathetic... straight up pathetic. dieting and starving yourself so you look 'good'? for what?? lol.. so some girls who you'll NEVER fuck or have a relationship with (due to your complete lack of social skills) will give you a second glance? lol... absolutely pathetic.. and even at 50yrs old, you still haven't figured it out yet.

you want to talk about me and my advice being dangerous? lol.. dude you're 50 and still running tren, mast, winstrol, test and gh!... what's your PSA? how many times do you get up at night to piss? have fun at your next prostate exam.. fucking moron.

Errr.....if you afraid of sides maybe you shouldnt be using steroids.

By the way, before you get yourself in too deep. 

[Simple Simon]

fat? lol

I still have abs and serratus, dude.

don't confuse water retention with fat.

and what 'photos'? the little billboard photo? that was at 15-17% bf, a few days after my release, after 5yrs of 200mg cyp every two weeks (legit hrt) eating ramen noodles and 4 jars of peanut butter a week, just trying to maintain a 230+ bodyweight.

now theres a challenge.
Post a pic with your shirt off.( a clear one)

I fucking dare you.

[ESFitness]

I get up every morning and look in the mirror and I stop....."is this really a 49 year old guy looking back at me?"

What do you see in the mirror?
A bloated mess with oil filled shoulders and 40 inch waist desperately wanting what I have.
The ability to look great with not a lot of effort.

You are chasing the impossible star, its never going to happen for you, nothing has happened up to now, what makes you think tomorrows going to be any different?

Keep chucking in the placebos because your gear cant be real.

As for being afraid of side effects, Im aware of them and I act accordingly, if I feel like shit, I listen to my body, you on the other hand just chuck in another pharmaceutical.

It will all end in tears, you will look in the mirror at 49 and think, "I wish this fucking oil would dissipate out of my shoulders now everything else has disappeared"

Thats if you ever get to 49

As for thisYou are in this thread, its just guys like GH15 who used to spout shit like that.

you're delusional.. I believe that you actually believe I want to look like you.. and that's sad, for you.

my waist is actually 34in buddy.. largest it's ever been was 41 when I was powerlifting, and haven't been over 34 in about 4yrs.

you really need to make up your mind... because before, you said I was a skinny little twink who's never been over 205... now I'm fat? lol... galeniko went this rout as well.

[ESFitness]

now theres a challenge.
Post a pic with your shirt off.( a clear one)

I fucking dare you.

constantly begging me to post pictures, yet I've seen only 1 pic of you, after a show, which if you're doing a show really WAS the best you've ever looked, 10yrs ago... yet you beg and beg for others to post pics.

you notice how I never goad you or anybody else into posting pics?

because I don't care.. doesn't matter to me.. doesn't affect me one bit. how you look or anybody else looks doesn't impact my daily life 1 bit... but the way I look affects you in a big big way, as witnessed by your obsession with me and my appearance and you constantly comparing yourself to me.

I occupy so much space in your mind... you need counseling. maybe that's why you're single and have no friends and your entire life revolves around msg boards.

[Simple Simon]

constantly begging me to post pictures, yet I've seen only 1 pic of you, after a show, which if you're doing a show really WAS the best you've ever looked, 10yrs ago... yet you beg and beg for others to post pics.

you notice how I never goad you or anybody else into posting pics?

because I don't care.. doesn't matter to me.. doesn't affect me one bit. how you look or anybody else looks doesn't impact my daily life 1 bit... but the way I look affects you in a big big way, as witnessed by your obsession with me and my appearance and you constantly comparing yourself to me.

I occupy so much space in your mind... you need counseling. maybe that's why you're single and have no friends and your entire life revolves around msg boards.

Left 1996, Right 2013


Its called consistency.

[ESFitness]

Left 1996, Right 2013


Its called consistency.

well, I'm not like you, I tend not to bash others physiques on here, no matter what the flaws... but if you think you're 'god-like'... you're delusional.

but like I said earlier... I really don't care how you look, in 96 or in 13. doesn't impact my life 1 bit... so if it make you happy, keep on comparing yourself to me. 

[ESFitness]

Translated as "Fuck me , my t-shirts staying on"

Dismissed.

says the guy who's only posted pics from his two contest showings. lol

epic irony.

[Fuzzy Nuts]

I think 250-400 test is about right. I have seen a 250 eq only cycle blow up a well trained lifter.

Something that I don't think people consider is that your natural test production is pulsatile and varies throughout the day. Exogenous test, your levels are consistently high. 250mg is well beyond the highest of gifted natural production.

[phreak]

I'm really starting to question ESF's mental health. Constant lies and evasions. Then posting a pic he apparently thinks is fabulous, but that horrifies everyone else from the blatantly obvious synthol/PMMA/"I just weekly site inject 20 mls of AAS at 50mg/ml in there!" abuse. Always moving the goal posts ('You don't post pics either!' *multiple pics posted* 'You don't look nearly as good as me and you will have to take my word for it!'). Making up ridiculous stories and when confronted with them denying he ever said it -- even when he is literally quoted as doing so.

Either he is a much better troll than I give him credit for, or he is deep into Cswol levels of delusion and impending mental breakdown/suicide. I'm actually feeling sorry for him now and will try to take it easy on him.

[Simple Simon]

#1 a shitty body, for taking drugs as long as you have and even competing? lol..

#2 zero social skills

#3 no friends

#4 no significant other.. I dont' care if you're gay or straight, you're a bitter old man who people cannot stand to be around

#5 no life, you're online 24-7

#6 a piss-poor job.. you're a 50yr old employee with a poor attitude.. 50yrs old and an attidue like yours, I could understand If you owned your own business, but you don't.. you're am employee with no social skills.... absolute fucking loser.

1. how many 49 year olds look like me?
2. im, a teacher /trainer in a large industry
3. not many, just a select few.
4. 18 year relationship
5. Im almost 50, i dont go clubbing anymore, apart from that i do fine.
6.I have a well paid job that doesnt take up all my time.

Now lets see how you fare
1.6 gms of gear to look like shit
2.drug dealer
3. real friends? not many, just people who want some drugs from you
4. 5 year relationship with a child who likely wont see much of you when you are jailed again when you finally snap and pull a gun on someone else.
5. I wouldnt want your life, regardless of what it is, i would have to be you.
6,. cant get gainful employment due to being an ex-stick up man so deals drugs instead.

Yep, must be great to be you.

[bigmc]

12 weeks of sust

one or two shots per week depending on some other factor

[Mawse]

If I could do it again, 250 test a week and 1/2 an abomb pre workout.

Run this for a couple of months to get to my natural limits without being shutdown for a long time.


and then not run another cycle again until I hit 35 and went on TRT.

[ProudVirgin69]

Move this thread to the G&O and/or start deleting worthless posts.....this could have been a useful thread 


Anyways, the best advice for a first-time juicer is to think in terms of months & years, not weeks.  Start small, 250-500 test, and stay with that for a few months.  If you're impatient, take an oral for the first couple weeks until the test starts taking effect.

After a few months you'll see what a little bit of juice can do for you.  If need be, up the dose of test or maybe throw in some deca/eq/tren.

[no one]

Move this thread to the G&O and/or start deleting worthless posts.....this could have been a useful thread 


Anyways, the best advice for a first-time juicer is to think in terms of months & years, not weeks.  Start small, 250-500 test, and stay with that for a few months.  If you're impatient, take an oral for the first couple weeks until the test starts taking effect.

After a few months you'll see what a little bit of juice can do for you.  If need be, up the dose of test or maybe throw in some deca/eq/tren.

fuck bro, im finding after 20 years what a little bit of juice can do for you.

i wish i had known 20 years ago what i know now. i probably would have better physique, and used a lot less gear. i actually dont mind ESF i think hes an alright guy i just like winding him up cause he gets so fucking mad. lol but in part too my posts are serious about just not needing that much gear. its simply not necessary.

[WillGrant]

Errr.....if you afraid of sides maybe you shouldnt be using steroids.

By the way, before you get yourself in too deep.  

To be fair I don't think that is no one on the low doses he now advocates ?

That pic is a couple of years old (maybe) and he was on a decent cycle there .

He is also no stranger to higher amounts for long periods (juicing fairly heavy near on 20 years).

He recommended a cycle for summer he was currently running (at the time) to me of

700mg each of prop, tren a ,dros p and npp per week along with orals of stan and var and generic r-hgh around when that pic was first shown.

Sure it's not 6 grams (which has been taken well out of context what he actually said)  a week but it's over three and far from the lower doses now mentioned.

I also believe he has carried a lot more muscle on his frame in that 20 odd years so that would come back to
more food the type of training he was doing at the time and more "support" .

He has a dense look that that comes from many years of training and fairly heavy use comparing it to the low doses you and he are advocating.

I'm pretty sure he will admit his current look would not of been possible without the many years of heavy use that proceeded the now lower doses, (he has typed that on here before.)


Now the above is in no means disrespecting him or you , No One knows I respect him very highly on all levels but some clarity is needed here.

Yours and his physiques are hugely impressive and show years of dedication and sacrifice and cant be brought from just out of a bottle.

I tend to agree with you and him for first timers but a lot of ESF says is true (not just on this subject) so I don't know why you continue to troll
him ?

He has never claimed to be an NPC or top rated amateur but that doesn't mean what he says is not knowledgeable and/or true.

His PED knowledge is up there and this is fact.

Duchaine was years ahead of everyone else in terms of PED/AAS use and how to apply it yet even when he competed he didnt look like much ,
still didn't mean what he said wasn't true.  

[LittleJ]

^Hi ESF

[Simple Simon]

To be fair I don't think that is no one on the low doses he now advocates ?

That pic is a couple of years old (maybe) and he was on a decent cycle there .

He is also no stranger to higher amounts for long periods (juicing fairly heavy near on 20 years).

He recommended a cycle for summer he was currently running (at the time) to me of

700mg each of prop, tren a ,dros p and npp per week along with orals of stan and var and generic r-hgh around when that pic was first shown.

Sure it's not 6 grams (which has been taken well out of context what he actually said)  a week but it's over three and far from the lower doses now mentioned.

I also believe he has carried a lot more muscle on his frame in that 20 odd years so that would come back to
more food the type of training he was doing at the time and more "support" .

He has a dense look that that comes from many years of training and fairly heavy use comparing it to the low doses you and he are advocating.

I'm pretty sure he will admit his current look would not of been possible without the many years of heavy use that proceeded the now lower doses, (he has typed that on here before.)


Now the above is in no means disrespecting him or you , No One knows I respect him very highly on all levels but some clarity is needed here.

Yours and his physiques are hugely impressive and show years of dedication and sacrifice and cant be brought from just out of a bottle.

I tend to agree with you and him for first timers but a lot of ESF says is true (not just on this subject) so I don't know why you continue to troll
him ?

He has never claimed to be an NPC or top rated amateur but that doesn't mean what he says is not knowledgeable and/or true.

His PED knowledge is up there and this is fact.

Duchaine was years ahead of everyone else in terms of PED/AAS use and how to apply it yet even when he competed he didnt look like much ,
still didn't mean what he said wasn't true.  

I can only speak for myself but i use 250mgs test e a week to ten days year round and every 10 weeks I add in 200-300mgs of tren., and then off the tren for 8-10 weeks
I took a lot more last year 5 weeks out from a show on the advice of someone I thought new best (someone a bit like ESFitness TBH) and the high dosage did fuck all.

I will never go high dosage again as it doesn't make all that much difference to how i look for the better but it makes a difference to how I feel, 500mgs of test makes me bloat with water and look shit.