Rosie O'Donnell Goes Public On 9/11

[militarymuscle69]

Tell us in your own words.  Not some college abstact on a 1984 instance. 

We have thing slike computers these days.  We have precision polling to the 3% error rate.  We have demographic breakdowns using modern technology and census data.

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE THAT ZOGBY AND OTHER POLLS USE 'COASTAL LEFTISTS' FOR THEIR POLLS

The facts I presented have nothing to do with computers or the year 1984. Good job glancing over it...........

[240 is Back]

The facts I presented have nothing to do with computers or the year 1984. Good job glancing over it...........

Please tell us, in your words, why every polling agency in the world gives us false data because they mainly poll "coastal leftists".

[militarymuscle69]

Please tell us, in your words, why every polling agency in the world gives us false data because they mainly poll "coastal leftists".

once again, I didn't give only ONE reason why the polls can be inaccurate. But way to ignore the rest. Like always you choose one that you can try to debate on and ignore the rest.

[240 is Back]

once again, I didn't give only ONE reason why the polls can be inaccurate. But way to ignore the rest. Like always you choose one that you can try to debate on and ignore the rest.

it's just that they are used for so many purposes in society, and are backed with some seriously solid science and track records.

mm, you are about to single handedly bring down the scam artists known as the polling industrial complex.   They've been abusing sexy numbers for way too long now, and it's time you stopped them.

[militarymuscle69]

it's just that they are used for so many purposes in society, and are backed with some seriously solid science and track records.

mm, you are about to single handedly bring down the scam artists known as the polling industrial complex.   They've been abusing sexy numbers for way too long now, and it's time you stopped them.

I never called them scam artists. They have great intent and I am sure that they do there best to be accurate. But there are many factors that can affect the accuracy for me to base my life on them. 99% of what is wrong with politicians is polls. That is all they care about. dems/gop,  they don't have the balls to stand for what they believe. All they want is to remain in office to keep collecting the lobby money.

[Wombat]

Actually, Rosie is a woman who claimed to have a major crush on Tom Cruise, and then, about year later, came out as a lesbian.

yes but their are many lesbians that have crushes on gay men...

[GreatFinn]

GreatFinn,

Why did World trade center 7 collapse in 6.5 seconds on Sept 11, 2001?

Ok, so you can answer only with these stupid questions again and again? Doesn't anybody give the right answers to you to write them here, and you are incapable to reason them by yourself? That tells all about you, isn't it? What a tool... 

[240 is Back]

Why there would be need for a biggest conspiracy in history of mankind, which would involved tens of thousands of participants, when you can make just same destruction and terror threat by planting just a ordinary bomb in those buildings and pay some rag head leader to take a blame for it. In real life you don't need a passenger jets, bombs and missiles, you need just a right amount of explosives, which you can easily plant in some skyscreaper like that.  That you can accomplish with a small group of people, instead of gathering a tens of thousands of people to work for the plot.

what is scarier...

Waking up to see the building gone and hearing what happened...

or...

Seeing 4 planes hit (all day watching your own sky cause we know you're not safe at work, home, and the military can't stop it either), then seeing the buildings collapse?

You don't see the need for fear (one of the goals of 911).  And people weren't *terrified* after oklahoma city.

[The Enigma]

what is scarier...

Waking up to see the building gone and hearing what happened...

or...

Seeing 4 planes hit (all day watching your own sky cause we know you're not safe at work, home, and the military can't stop it either), then seeing the buildings collapse?

You don't see the need for fear (one of the goals of 911).  And people weren't *terrified* after oklahoma city.

Something to ponder......when PGA golfer Payne Stewart's Lear jet went off it's flight plan, military jets were "scrambled" within 10 mins after going of course. The jets proceded to follow Stewart's plane until it unfortunately crashed........away from the public.

How did 757 jumbo jets go off course for over an HOUR.........with no scramble?

Thing's that make you go .........hummmmmmm? 

[240 is Back]

Something to ponder......when PGA golfer Payne Stewart's Lear jet went off it's flight plan, military jets were "scrambled" within 10 mins after going of course. The jets proceded to follow Stewart's plane until it unfortunately crashed........away from the public.

How did 757 jumbo jets go off course for over an HOUR.........with no scramble?

Thing's that make you go .........hummmmmmm? 

They sent two F-16s to intercept the hijacked planes.

They were travelling 1875 mph and would have taken down the pentagon and shanksville planes with ease.  They had both planes targeted.

Then, *something* told those two to circle in the Atlantic at 500 mph for a half hour.

We'd know why they let the planes go AFTER they have confirmed their targets, but the FAA supervisor destroyed the tape recordings of the day. 

Simply put, someone called off the dogs. 

[240 is Back]

Something to ponder......when PGA golfer Payne Stewart's Lear jet went off it's flight plan, military jets were "scrambled" within 10 mins after going of course. The jets proceded to follow Stewart's plane until it unfortunately crashed........away from the public.

How did 757 jumbo jets go off course for over an HOUR.........with no scramble?

Thing's that make you go .........hummmmmmm? 

Enigma... another point...

Andrews Air Force Base is 12 miles from the Pentagon.  They had two fighter jets on call 24/7 as per policy.  On 911, they sat idle on the runway and never launched, even in the 48 minutes they knew flight 77 was making a beeline from the OH/KY border to DC.  Even after two planes had hit the towers, and they knew a hijacked third plane was beelining for DC.

Then, someone even odder happened.  On Sept 12, Andrews AFB changed their website.  They removed all the information about having fighter jets on their base. 

[militarymuscle69]

Enigma... another point...

Andrews Air Force Base is 12 miles from the Pentagon.  They had two fighter jets on call 24/7 as per policy.  On 911, they sat idle on the runway and never launched, even in the 48 minutes they knew flight 77 was making a beeline from the OH/KY border to DC.  Even after two planes had hit the towers, and they knew a hijacked third plane was beelining for DC.

Then, someone even odder happened.  On Sept 12, Andrews AFB changed their website.  They removed all the information about having fighter jets on their base. 

They weren't the only one that changed their website, the entire Air Force changed after 9/11. At Hill we used to let people sit by the fence at the end of the runway and watch the 16s take off all day. After 9/11 we put up blast fence around that EOR so that no one could see from the ground what was going on with the planes....It isn't odd that Andrews changed their website....Also I was asking a guy here that came from Andrews, and he doesn't remember an alert ramp pre 9/11.

[240 is Back]

They weren't the only one that changed their website, the entire Air Force changed after 9/11. At Hill we used to let people sit by the fence at the end of the runway and watch the 16s take off all day. After 9/11 we put up blast fence around that EOR so that no one could see from the ground what was going on with the planes....It isn't odd that Andrews changed their website....Also I was asking a guy here that came from Andrews, and he doesn't remember an alert ramp pre 9/11.

They sat idle as a plane flew for 48 minutes after two other planes had hit targets.

The "smoking gun" is the fact those planes never took off.

The fact they woke up quick THE NEXT DAY and changed the website to cover their ass is only the icing on the cake.

mm69 - Why do you believe Andrews didn't put a plane in the air when they knew a plane was heading right for DC?

[militarymuscle69]

They sat idle as a plane flew for 48 minutes after two other planes had hit targets.

The "smoking gun" is the fact those planes never took off.

The fact they woke up quick THE NEXT DAY and changed the website to cover their ass is only the icing on the cake.

mm69 - Why do you believe Andrews didn't put a plane in the air when they knew a plane was heading right for DC?

I wasn't there. But if there WASN'T AN ACTIVE ALERT RAMP, it would take mearly an hour to launch an F-16. And again the Website shows nothing....seriously, everything at Hill changed over night also as well as every installation in the world. I was at Osan when it happened and within hours we had all the civilians off base and barriers at the gates. 

[240 is Back]

I wasn't there. But if there WASN'T AN ACTIVE ALERT RAMP, it would take mearly an hour to launch an F-16. And again the Website shows nothing....seriously, everything at Hill changed over night also as well as every installation in the world. I was at Osan when it happened and within hours we had all the civilians off base and barriers at the gates. 

Are you prepared to stake your reputation on the fact "it would take {n}early an hour to launch an F-16"?

Because I've read numerous pieces on the response times, launch sequence times, etc, and NEARLY AN HOUR is absolutely wrong.

If you want to debate it further, please back up your statement and I will back up mine.  I'm hoping some of our military folks can chime in too.  Would it really take Andrews AFB nearly an hour to scramble a fighter jet?

[militarymuscle69]

Are you prepared to stake your reputation on the fact "it would take {n}early an hour to launch an F-16"?

Because I've read numerous pieces on the response times, launch sequence times, etc, and NEARLY AN HOUR is absolutely wrong.

If you want to debate it further, please back up your statement and I will back up mine.  I'm hoping some of our military folks can chime in too.  Would it really take Andrews AFB nearly an hour to scramble a fighter jet?

In the event that an Alert ramp is operational, the planes have a 15 minute response time. But at an Alert ramp the crew chiefs have the planes ready to go, AMMO has the plane loaded and the pilots sit in lounges already dressed for a mission. If the Alert ramp isn't operating, and the planes are sitting cold on a parking ramp it would take close to an hour to make a jet mission ready. At both Hill and Osan, it was a 15 minute trip to bring bombs from the Weapons storage area to the parking ramp alone. That doesn't include loading the bombs, fueling, running through run up procedures, and getting the pilot out to the plane. The question is..was there an alert ramp operational at Andrews at the time. According to the guy I work with, there wasn't. Our shop goes to 24 hours ops when the alert ramp is up and running, so he would probably remember if that was the case. Since 9/11, alert ramp operations are rotated through Air Combat Command, with one east coast and one west coast base on 15 minute response.

[240 is Back]

In the event that an Alert ramp is operational, the planes have a 15 minute response time. But at an Alert ramp the crew chiefs have the planes ready to go, AMMO has the plane loaded and the pilots sit in lounges already dressed for a mission. If the Alert ramp isn't operating, and the planes are sitting cold on a parking ramp it would take close to an hour to make a jet mission ready. At both Hill and Osan, it was a 15 minute trip to bring bombs from the Weapons storage area to the parking ramp alone. That doesn't include loading the bombs, fueling, running through run up procedures, and getting the pilot out to the plane. The question is..was there an alert ramp operational at Andrews at the time. According to the guy I work with, there wasn't. Our shop goes to 24 hours ops when the alert ramp is up and running, so he would probably remember if that was the case. Since 9/11, alert ramp operations are rotated through Air Combat Command, with one east coast and one west coast base on 15 minute response.

First report of hijacking came in at 8:21 AM.
First plane hit Tower at 8:46 AM.
Flight 77 tracked from 8:49 until it hit the Pentagon at 9:37 AM.

No plane ever scrambled from Andrews, but they got them out of Mass fast enough to take out Flight 77 easily had they not been diverted over the Atlantic.

I am under the belief (i've read it repeatedly) that Andrews has fighters on standby 24/7 to have them in the air in minutes, as they are the only thing keeping a plane from hitting DC.  I will start posting source after source if you wish - I thought this was commonly known and was surprised you thought it takes an hour to get one fighter in the air. 

They had a dead golfer's intercepted in 15 minutes in civilian airspace on regular alert, but in high alert, they can't raise one bird over DC in 76 minutes (821 to 937 AM)?  I don't buy that for a moment.

[militarymuscle69]

Are you prepared to stake your reputation on the fact "it would take {n}early an hour to launch an F-16"?

Because I've read numerous pieces on the response times, launch sequence times, etc, and NEARLY AN HOUR is absolutely wrong.

If you want to debate it further, please back up your statement and I will back up mine.  I'm hoping some of our military folks can chime in too.  Would it really take Andrews AFB nearly an hour to scramble a fighter jet?

Since Andrews is an Air Mobility Command base, I can't see how they would have an alert ramp. Langley is an ACCbase  where they have a fighter wing  and a base where they operate Alert ramps since 9/11 but Andrews is a airlift wing, so they operate C-5s and C-17s. I hate to punch holes in your CT but....

The planes from Mass had to have been on Alert. It is impossible to get a cold plane loaded and in the air in much under an hour. Also Langley would be more likely ot have a fighter on standby. I mean I know you probably know more about how the Air Force operates than me due to all the time you have spent on flightlines watching planes operate and all.....LOL

[240 is Back]

I mean I know you probably know more about how the Air Force operates than me due to all the time you have spent on flightlines watching planes operate and all.....LOL

sarcasm detected.  I will post my findings on andrews this afternoon.  i've read a ton on it and will source everything.  I hope you will do the same with your research saying Andrews did not have the capability I believe they did.

[militarymuscle69]

sarcasm detected.  I will post my findings on andrews this afternoon.  i've read a ton on it and will source everything.  I hope you will do the same with your research saying Andrews did not have the capability I believe they did.

I imagine a guy on the ground wouldn't be enough for you....I mean I know fist hand knowledge doesn't mean much as opposed to some reporter....And I suppose the fact that Andrews isn't a figther wing (place where they keep fighters) doesn't mean anything to you...I have conceded that Langley is a fighter wing (I'm sure you know where langley is, being an Air Force expert and all).... and they possibly could have had fighters on that day. However it is clear that the protection of the eastern seaboard rested on Hanscomb Air Field that day (again I'm sure you know where that is). I know you assume that every fighter in the AF inventory is ready on a moments notice..but that isn't how it works. Drive by any fighterwing today and tell me how many jest are loaded with munitions, guess what......you won't find it with the exception of one eastern and one western ACC base...

[240 is Back]

I imagine a guy on the ground wouldn't be enough for you....I mean I know fist hand knowledge doesn't mean much as opposed to some reporter....And I suppose the fact that Andrews isn't a figther wing (place where they keep fighters) doesn't mean anything to you...I have conceded that Langley is a fighter wing (I'm sure you know where langley is, being an Air Force expert and all).... and they possibly could have had fighters on that day. However it is clear that the protection of the eastern seaboard rested on Hanscomb Air Field that day (again I'm sure you know where that is). I know you assume that every fighter in the AF inventory is ready on a moments notice..but that isn't how it works. Drive by any fighterwing today and tell me how many jest are loaded with munitions, guess what......you won't find it with the exception of one eastern and one western ACC base...

I'll get you the AAFB everything for the date of sept 11.  It has been studied greatly and their inability to act goes beyond preparedness or even competence.

I'm not sure you have researched this topic, but I'll engage ya.  Let me get back to the smart PC and I'll get ya more

[militarymuscle69]

I'll get you the AAFB everything for the date of sept 11.  It has been studied greatly and their inability to act goes beyond preparedness or even competence.

I'm not sure you have researched this topic, but I'll engage ya.  Let me get back to the smart PC and I'll get ya more

OK, you show me all you got on how Andrews had an operational alert ramp.....because without that, all other points dont' really matter. Unless you have been on the flight line and seen what it takes to get a plane mission ready you will never understand.

[The Enigma]

I wasn't there. But if there WASN'T AN ACTIVE ALERT RAMP, it would take mearly an hour to launch an F-16. And again the Website shows nothing....seriously, everything at Hill changed over night also as well as every installation in the world. I was at Osan when it happened and within hours we had all the civilians off base and barriers at the gates. 

Sorry MM......A personal friend fly's 16's, so the "hour off the ground" story must be considered a fallacy. 

With 16's......we are talking about a "NY minute" to get Airborne.

[OzmO]

Sorry MM......A personal friend fly's 16's, so the "hour off the ground" story must be considered a fallacy. 

With 16's......we are talking about a "NY minute" to get Airborne.

If it's on alert, on the hot pad, it should take minutes. 

But from parked to fully fueled, armed and checked?  Minutes?

[240 is Back]

they keep them on alert 24/7, and they did before 911.

there were exactly 100 flights intercepted in the 365 calendar days before 9/11/01.

Aside from the idiot's reason that "they were all training that day", there is the problem of the fighters which WERE dispatched.  They were zooming in on planes at 1875 mph and would have cut the fckers down very quickly.  However, *something* told them to cut speed to 400 mph and do a holding pattern in the atlantic. 

We'd know which force was able to stop them from their mission, except the FAA supervisor destroyed all his tapes.  Then - hilariously? - NORAD said they didn't have any capability or responsibility to intercept planes inside the US - even though they were actually running drills about intercepting domestically hijacked flights in the US that very morning!