Author Topic: RIP Gracie  (Read 3749 times)

Princess L

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knny187

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2007, 12:52:01 PM »
man...thats tragic


Which brings up a good question.....

Does anyone have some good information on PET CPR?

How about basic first aid in emergencies (do's & don'ts)



Vet?


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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2007, 01:08:37 PM »
Very sad.   :(

  Since Tad has been added to the pack he has his own toys he can play with at work or on outings, but they can't be brought home because of the size and the choking risk they would pose to the bigger dogs. 


    Is the Heimlich maneuver effective in dogs with a throat obstruction? Do the canines block the expulsion of the object?  Is it better to try and grab the object with something like hemostats?

  Vet?


   
   
 
here is Luv2Hurts experience with a tennis ball:

  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=138511.0

Max_Rep

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2007, 01:21:53 PM »
man...thats tragic


Which brings up a good question.....

Does anyone have some good information on PET CPR?

How about basic first aid in emergencies (do's & don'ts)



Vet?



Yes the Red Cross offers a course at select chapters and a book. There are others you can Google "Pet First Aid".

http://www.redcross.org/services/hss/courses/pets.html?WT.srch=1&gclid=CIT6wOa3tI0CFQgZhgod-gTdrw

You can also become an instructor
http://www.pettech.net/programs.html
and keep moving!

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2007, 01:29:08 PM »
Thanks Dave! I never knew they offered classes!

   will have to put this in the thread that gets started eventually on toxics to pets and other stuff.   

Vet

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2007, 02:12:45 PM »
Yes the Red Cross offers a course at select chapters and a book. There are others you can Google "Pet First Aid".

http://www.redcross.org/services/hss/courses/pets.html?WT.srch=1&gclid=CIT6wOa3tI0CFQgZhgod-gTdrw

You can also become an instructor
http://www.pettech.net/programs.html


Those would be the two sites I'd recommend for the lay person. 

A couple of notes about pet CPR.....   its similar, but also very, very different from human CPR.  You need to be careful not to break the ribs or get too excited and pop the lungs with a huge breath----in that respect unless its a very large dog, its more like what you'd do with an infant than an adult human. 

Second is the success rate.  Pet CPR will help..... but as a general rule, the success rate is much, much lower in dogs compared to humans.  Remember, dogs and cats both hide disease much better than humans do.  So an old, debilitated dog may have much worse heart disease than you initially think and as a result the success will be much lower than with a young, otherwise healthy dog who has had a traumatic accident (ie hit by a car). 

Now please don't misread what I wrote above and think its futile, you always have to try CPR in an emergency.  Just don't get overly discouraged if you fail. 

temper35

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 02:14:59 PM »
Why was a golden playing with a ball for a cocker sized dog?

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2007, 02:18:18 PM »
Why was a golden playing with a ball for a cocker sized dog?

Because it was a golden....


Golf balls are probably the worst.  I've seen more than one dog have serious issues with golf balls--either by choking or worse yet by swallowing them whole and getting a GI obstruction. 

temper35

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2007, 02:21:22 PM »
Because it was a golden....


Golf balls are probably the worst.  I've seen more than one dog have serious issues with golf balls--either by choking or worse yet by swallowing them whole and getting a GI obstruction. 

"Gracie had choked on a plastic ball that belonged to Oprah's much older cocker spaniel, Sophie. "  I have a Rottweiler.  I wouldn't buy him something that he could swallow, or fit down his throat.  The story is tragic but did the possibility of that happening not come to anyones realization?

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2007, 02:25:23 PM »
"Gracie had choked on a plastic ball that belonged to Oprah's much older cocker spaniel, Sophie. "  I have a Rottweiler.  I wouldn't buy him something that he could swallow, or fit down his throat.  The story is tragic but did the possibility of that happening not come to anyones realization?

Apparently not....   My guess is it was a simple oversight.  Someone didnt think it could happen, so didnt' do anything about it. 


Second big culprit behind golf balls causing dog GI obstructions----the knots off rawhide bones.   Large dogs can bite those off and swallow them.  They then get stuck in the pyloric outflow tract coming out of the stomach.   

temper35

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2007, 02:29:17 PM »
Yeah rawhide is tricky.  The moment my dog hit like 6 months and the jaws started becoming powerful i took rawhide away, period.  He could crack a rawhide bone in two within 10min and be chewing on pieces that were way too big and would soon become soft and swallowable.  Either way, hard to deal with.  Prayers go out to Oprah.

knny187

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2007, 02:30:39 PM »
"Gracie had choked on a plastic ball that belonged to Oprah's much older cocker spaniel, Sophie. "  I have a Rottweiler.  I wouldn't buy him something that he could swallow, or fit down his throat.  The story is tragic but did the possibility of that happening not come to anyones realization?

I have a Rottie too.

The damn toys he has are the size of a basketball.

Hopefully...he doesn't figure out how to lodge one of those in his mouth.

 ;D

temper35

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 02:32:03 PM »
Lol yeah I buy everything oversized, like the gigantic kongs, and the marrow bones I buy are like a bulls femur.  One of my dogs toys IS a deflated basketball, funny you said that lol.

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 02:36:43 PM »
Lol yeah I buy everything oversized, like the gigantic kongs, and the marrow bones I buy are like a bulls femur.  One of my dogs toys IS a deflated basketball, funny you said that lol.

Giant Kongs rule. 

knny187

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 02:38:17 PM »
Pulled this off a miscellaneous site.  I don't know if this is right or current protocol...maybe Vet can advise?






Pet CPR & First Aid
"Changing the Way You Learn"TM


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The following is a simple breakdown of dog & cat CPR.  It's written for the average pet owner and in plain language.  It uses the common accepted approach to pet cardiopulmonary resuscitation according to excepted standards of  Pet First Aid courses throughout the United States.  Pet First Aid is not intended to take the place of professional veterinary care.  It is recommended that you take a Pet First Aid course from a certified instructor.

ABC's (Airway, Breathing, Circulation)

Airway:   Probably one of the most important things you can do after SAFETY is to make sure your dog or cat is breathing. To do this, you want to gently tap your dog or cat and call out their name to see if they move. Then (being careful not to get bitten or scratched) lean down close and LOOK, LISTEN AND FEEL for breathing.

    Look: at the chest of the animal to see if it's moving.

    Listen: to see if you can hear them breathing.

    Feel: on your cheek or back of your hand for a breath.

Breathing:    If your dog or cat is not breathing, pull their tongue just a little bit, close the mouth and tilt their head just a little to open their Airway. Give them 4 -5 breaths from your (guess what?) mouth to their nose! This is  Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation. You'll want to give them just enough air to make the chest rise. Big dogs need more - little dogs or cats much less. Remember not to give too much air! You don't want to hurt them.

Circulation:
This means you're checking to see if their heart is working OK. To do that you must check for a heart beat which is called a pulse. There are pulse points located in various areas on your dog or cat. For a dog the best place to find the pulse is on the inside of the rear leg, towards the top of the leg. This is called the Femoral Pulse. For a cat the best place to find the pulse is on the outside of the left front leg, just behind the shoulder. This is called an Apical Pulse.

 


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Rescue Breathing
Rescue Breathing is when you have to breath for your dog or cat because they are not breathing on their own. You do this when your dog or cat has a pulse but is not breathing.

Step 1:         

First do your ABC's, don't forget to LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL for breathing.


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Step 2:   

If not breathing, give 4-5 breaths using Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation.


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Step 3: 

 Check for pulse on the Femoral Artery for dogs or check the Apical Pulse for cats or really small dogs.


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Step 4:     

If there is a pulse, but no breathing start Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation giving 1 breath every 3 seconds. For cats or really small dogs, give 1 breath every 2 seconds.


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CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation)
CPR:  First do your ABC's, don't forget to LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL for breathing.  CPR can only be performed if your dog or cat is not breathing and has no pulse.

Follow Steps 1,2,3 same as in Rescue Breathing. 

If there is no Pulse, start CPR


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Step 4:    Dog = Place the dog on the ground or other hard surface with its right side down. Take it's left front leg and bend at the elbow, rotating at the shoulder. The point where the elbow of the dog touches the body is where you place your hands for compressions. Put one hand on top of the other and clasp your fingers together. Lock your elbows and start performing compressions. Push approximately 2-3 inches deep. Give compressions first then a breath. After 1 minute check for a pulse. repeat if there's no response.

 

 Giant Dogs = Give 1 breath every 10 compressions.

 Medium to large dogs = Give 1 breath every 5 compressions.

 Small Dogs = Give 1 breath every 5 compressions.

 Cats or really small dogs = Place the animal flat on the ground. Then put your hands on either side of the animal's chest, right behind the shoulder blades with your palms over the heart (sandwiching the animal's chest between both hands). Compress approximately ½ - 1 inch deep. After 1 minute, check for a pulse again.

 Cats or really small dogs = Give 1 breath every 3 compressions.


Vet

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2007, 02:48:09 PM »
Pulled this off a miscellaneous site.  I don't know if this is right or current protocol...maybe Vet can advise?






Pet CPR & First Aid
"Changing the Way You Learn"TM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is a simple breakdown of dog & cat CPR.  It's written for the average pet owner and in plain language.  It uses the common accepted approach to pet cardiopulmonary resuscitation according to excepted standards of  Pet First Aid courses throughout the United States.  Pet First Aid is not intended to take the place of professional veterinary care.  It is recommended that you take a Pet First Aid course from a certified instructor.

ABC's (Airway, Breathing, Circulation)

Airway:   Probably one of the most important things you can do after SAFETY is to make sure your dog or cat is breathing. To do this, you want to gently tap your dog or cat and call out their name to see if they move. Then (being careful not to get bitten or scratched) lean down close and LOOK, LISTEN AND FEEL for breathing.

    Look: at the chest of the animal to see if it's moving.

    Listen: to see if you can hear them breathing.

    Feel: on your cheek or back of your hand for a breath.

Breathing:    If your dog or cat is not breathing, pull their tongue just a little bit, close the mouth and tilt their head just a little to open their Airway. Give them 4 -5 breaths from your (guess what?) mouth to their nose! This is  Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation. You'll want to give them just enough air to make the chest rise. Big dogs need more - little dogs or cats much less. Remember not to give too much air! You don't want to hurt them.

Circulation:
This means you're checking to see if their heart is working OK. To do that you must check for a heart beat which is called a pulse. There are pulse points located in various areas on your dog or cat. For a dog the best place to find the pulse is on the inside of the rear leg, towards the top of the leg. This is called the Femoral Pulse. For a cat the best place to find the pulse is on the outside of the left front leg, just behind the shoulder. This is called an Apical Pulse.

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rescue Breathing
Rescue Breathing is when you have to breath for your dog or cat because they are not breathing on their own. You do this when your dog or cat has a pulse but is not breathing.

Step 1:         

First do your ABC's, don't forget to LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL for breathing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Step 2:   

If not breathing, give 4-5 breaths using Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Step 3: 

 Check for pulse on the Femoral Artery for dogs or check the Apical Pulse for cats or really small dogs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Step 4:     

If there is a pulse, but no breathing start Mouth-to-Snout resuscitation giving 1 breath every 3 seconds. For cats or really small dogs, give 1 breath every 2 seconds.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation)
CPR:  First do your ABC's, don't forget to LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL for breathing.  CPR can only be performed if your dog or cat is not breathing and has no pulse.

Follow Steps 1,2,3 same as in Rescue Breathing. 

If there is no Pulse, start CPR


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Step 4:    Dog = Place the dog on the ground or other hard surface with its right side down. Take it's left front leg and bend at the elbow, rotating at the shoulder. The point where the elbow of the dog touches the body is where you place your hands for compressions. Put one hand on top of the other and clasp your fingers together. Lock your elbows and start performing compressions. Push approximately 2-3 inches deep. Give compressions first then a breath. After 1 minute check for a pulse. repeat if there's no response.

 

 Giant Dogs = Give 1 breath every 10 compressions.

 Medium to large dogs = Give 1 breath every 5 compressions.

 Small Dogs = Give 1 breath every 5 compressions.

 Cats or really small dogs = Place the animal flat on the ground. Then put your hands on either side of the animal's chest, right behind the shoulder blades with your palms over the heart (sandwiching the animal's chest between both hands). Compress approximately ½ - 1 inch deep. After 1 minute, check for a pulse again.

 Cats or really small dogs = Give 1 breath every 3 compressions.



yes, this is one way that would probably work.  The way I was trained is slightly different, involving a rate of chest compressions near the normal heartrate and a difference in breathing rate for the animal.   Now obviously this varies quite a bit from species to species and in domestic dogs and cats there will be variation from large dogs to small dogs.   The last animal I did CPR on was a Dama gazelle that died at the end of a 3 hour surgery to repair a leg fracture.  Unfortunately we broke several of its ribs during the chest compressions and were unsuccessful in reviving it. 


here:

Quote
FIRST AID AND EMERGENCY CARE
By Roger W. Gfeller, DVM, DipACVECC, Michael W. Thomas, DVM, and Isaac Mayo

Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) is the treatment required to save an animal (or human) life when he or she has suffered respiratory and/or cardiac arrest. CPR consists of two parts:

Rescue breathing and chest compressions.

These two techniques combine to keep the lungs supplied with oxygen and keep blood circulating, carrying oxygen to the other parts of the body.

Basic CPR is CPR performed by trained bystanders at the scene of the arrest.

Advanced CPR is CPR performed by trained teams of professionals.

Basic CPR is the most important, and will be described in this section.

All tissues require a steady source of oxygen. If the source is interrupted for only a few minutes, irreversible damage may be done. If an arrest occurs, basic CPR must be initiated at the scene.

Basic CPR: Rescue Breathing

Make Certain the Animal is Actually Arrested and Unconscious
Talk to the animal first. Gently touch and attempt to awaken the pet. You could be seriously injured should you attempt to perform CPR on a pet who was only sleeping heavily and was startled awake.

Ensure an Open Airway
Extend the head and neck and pull the tongue forward.
 
Look in the mouth and remove any saliva or vomitus. If it is too dark to see into the mouth, sweep your finger deep into the mouth and even into the throat to remove any vomitus or foreign body. Be aware of a hard, smooth, bone-like structure deep in the throat. This is likely to be the hyoid apparatus (Adam's apple). Serious injury could result if you pull on the hyoid apparatus.

Observe for Effective Breathing
Sometimes an animal will begin to breathe spontaneously when the head is put in the position discussed above (head and neck extended, tongue pulled forward). Watch for the rise and fall of the chest while listening closely for sounds of breathing. If no breathing is evident in 10 seconds, begin rescue breathing.

Begin Rescue Breathing
Rescue breathing is performed by covering the animal's nose with your mouth and forcefully blowing your breath into his lungs. In cats and small dogs, you must hold the corners of the mouth tightly closed while you force the air in.
   
In larger dogs, the tongue should be pulled forward and the mouth and lips held shut using both hands cupped around the muzzle. Force the air into the lungs until you see the chest expand. Take your mouth away when the chest has fully expended. The lungs will deflate on their own. Air should be forced into the animal's lungs until you see the chest expand.

Give 3 to 5 Full Breaths
After several breaths are given, stop for a few seconds to recheck for breathing and heart function. If the pet is still not breathing, continue rescue breathing 20-25 times per minute in cats or small dogs, or 12-20 times per minute in medium or large dogs. Push down on the stomach area every few seconds to help expel the air that may have blown into the stomach. If the stomach is allowed to distend with air, the pressure will make the rescue breathing efforts less effective.

If Breathing is Shallow or Non-existent
and the animal is still unconscious, continue rescue breathing 10 to 15 times per minute and transport the animal to the nearest veterinary facility.

Basic CPR: Chest Compressions

After Giving 3 to 5 Breaths, Check for a Pulse
If no pulse is detectable, begin chest compressions.

In Small Dogs or Cats
Squeeze the chest using one or both hands around the chest. Depress the rib cage circumferentially. Do this 100 to 150 times per minute.

In Large Dogs
Compress the chest wall with one or two hands, depending on the size of the dog (and the size of the rescuer). If the dog is on her side, place the hand(s) on the side of the chest wall where it is widest. If the dog is on her back, place the hand(s) on the sternum (breastbone). Depress the rib cage or sternum 1.5 to 4 inches, depending on the dog's size. Do this 80 to 120 times per minute.

Coordinate Rescue Breathing and Chest Compressions
Give breaths during the compressions, if possible. If it is not possible to give breaths during the compressions, give two breaths after every 12 compressions.

When Two or More Rescuers are Working Together
Rescue breathing should be given during every second or third heart compression.

Continue CPR Until

You become exhausted and can't continue.
You get the animal transported to a veterinary facility and professionals can take over. The pulse is palpable or heartbeats are felt and they are strong and regular. In the vast majority of cases, artificial ventilations will continue to be required for a period of time, even though heart function has returned. This is due to nervous system depression secondary to the arrest.
 
All resuscitated animals should be transported to a veterinary facility for further examination and care!

Secondary Survey
The secondary survey is performed once resuscitation measures have been successfully performed or when it is decided that resuscitation measures are not required. In some circumstances (because of ongoing resuscitation), the secondary survey is never completed and the animal is transported directly to the veterinarian or emergency hospital during resuscitation.

A general examination (from the tip of the nose to the end of the tail) should be performed. Determine and record:

pulse rate and character
respiratory rate and character
mucous membrane color
capillary refill time
rectal temperature.
Examine the eyes, ears, nose, neck, mouth (if possible), chest, abdomen, back, pelvis, legs, and tail. First aid treatment should be performed as necessary during transport to the veterinarian.
Taking and recording your pet's pulse is an important part of the secondary survey.

Date Published: 12/31/1994



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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2007, 02:54:24 PM »
Again guys, I'm not saying don't try, just be aware that CPR in reality isn't what TV makes it out to be.  The last survival rate I saw for humans was 15-20% for those people who arrest IN THE HOSPITAL for non anesthetic related reasons.  Obviously, outside of the hospital can be much lower.   That success rate in dogs and cats has been published to be 5-10% max.  Anesthetic related reasons have a higher percentage of success in animals and in humans both, primarily because you have an animal that is otherwise healthy but has a drug induced problem (the anesthesia).

Max_Rep

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 01:29:58 AM »
I think if anyone should do a show on Pet First Aid it should be Oprah. I've never been a fan but she's got a HUGE audience.
and keep moving!

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2007, 06:08:19 AM »
"Gracie had choked on a plastic ball that belonged to Oprah's much older cocker spaniel, Sophie. "  I have a Rottweiler.  I wouldn't buy him something that he could swallow, or fit down his throat.  The story is tragic but did the possibility of that happening not come to anyones realization?

  That's why I keep the Chi sized toys at work and at home Tad has to make do with the Dane sized toys!   ;D

 Fat Cat makes some pretty indestructible toys, definitely have lasted longer than anything else we have tried.  We have the Terrible Nasty Scaries cats:

  http://www.fatcatinc.com/html_site/hhome.shtml

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2007, 06:11:28 AM »
R.I.P. Gracie... :'(
?

JimmyTheFish

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2007, 07:05:17 AM »
RIP Gracie -- awful story, this is why I wouldnt hire a dog walker  ::) if something is going to happen I want to be there and not second guess someone else's judgement in a situation like this

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Re: RIP Gracie
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2007, 07:29:31 AM »
I think if anyone should do a show on Pet First Aid it should be Oprah. I've never been a fan but she's got a HUGE audience.

I think thats todays show.