Kawhi Leonard to the Lakers?

[Earl1972]

Pretty much every single year before 2010-11.

what were the 97 rockets with hakeem, pippen, barkley and drexler?

2004 laker with shaq, kobe, malone, and payton

2008 celtics with garnett, pierce, and allen

heck the super teams go back further than that

E

[Pray_4_War]

Stale predictable argument.

Most of those guys who joined up with established teams then were old, washed up, and on their way out of the league.  Regardless, in those days it was the teams that built the rosters, not the players.  Now we have young superstars in the prime of their careers, top 5, top 10 players in the league scheming with each other where they can go and play together.  The best talent in the league is funneling to 2 or 4 teams.  Not at all the same.

[Royalty]

Stale predictable argument.

Most of those guys who joined up with established teams then were old, washed up, and on their way out of the league.  Regardless, in those days it was the teams that built the rosters, not the players.  Now we have young superstars in the prime of their careers, top 5, top 10 players in the league scheming with each other where they can go and play together.  The best talent in the league is funneling to 2 or 4 teams.  Not at all the same.

I think that it can be good for the NBA... to get some of the losing teams out from the last place and into title contention (at least for a few years)

[Dave D]

Stale predictable argument.

Most of those guys who joined up with established teams then were old, washed up, and on their way out of the league.  Regardless, in those days it was the teams that built the rosters, not the players.  Now we have young superstars in the prime of their careers, top 5, top 10 players in the league scheming with each other where they can go and play together.  The best talent in the league is funneling to 2 or 4 teams.  Not at all the same.

So you're okay with management  acquiring players but if the players want to be on the same team by their own accord its scheming?

NBA players have always tried to play with their friends, Isaiah Thomas got Detroit to trade for Mark Aquire back in the late 80s....

The real issue is AAU ball and these guys switching teams to play with elite players (from all over the country) from the time they were kids. These guys have been playing with and against each other for for half a decade before they've even turned 18 let alone gotten into the league, that wasnt the case 30 years ago.

It's a generational "issue".  Plus you add in guys like Kevin Garnett who tell the young guys that you cant waste your prime with a team that doesn't win just because they drafted you, means the days of Ernie Banks and Archie Manning, good players stuck or committed tobad teams, are over.

Kawhi was quoted as saying regular season games are the equivalent of practice and that the playoffs are the only games that count. The Kobe generation would have never had "load management" that restricted minutes and games. But people learn from the previous generations.

We are in a different day.

[Pray_4_War]

Dirk Nowitzki's 1 ring in Dallas is worth more than 10 of these super team championships.  He was the lone superstar and he had some good aging vets and role players.  They competed against guys like Kobe and Lebron and they were able to get a hard earned Championship.   Star players now just want to stack the deck in their favor.  Cheap rings from players with no heart.

[Earl1972]

Dirk Nowitzki's 1 ring in Dallas is worth more than 10 of these super team championships.  He was the lone superstar and he had some good aging vets and role players.  They competed against guys like Kobe and Lebron and they were able to get a hard earned Championship.   Star players now just want to stack the deck in their favor.  Cheap rings from players with no heart.

yet not one reasonable person would argue dirk is a better player than Lebron or durant or a few other guys that earned "cheap" rings, so maybe his 1 ring isn't worth as much as you like to think

E

[Earl1972]

Stale predictable argument.

Most of those guys who joined up with established teams then were old, washed up, and on their way out of the league.  Regardless, in those days it was the teams that built the rosters, not the players.  Now we have young superstars in the prime of their careers, top 5, top 10 players in the league scheming with each other where they can go and play together.  The best talent in the league is funneling to 2 or 4 teams.  Not at all the same.

you call it stale, yet how is it untrue?  how was garnett and allen washed up and on their way out of the league?  they're the team that convinced Lebron he needed to leave cleveland if he was going to win a title, i think kevin garnett even told him that was what he had to do

so what should they do?  stay on the same shitty team with shitty management in a city where free agents don't want to play, while guys like curry were lucky enough to have management that knew how to build a championship team from the ground up

list all the star players that earned a ring without a super team

E

[sculpture]

Hakeem
Dirk
Kawhi

Tempted to add bill Walton and second run Kobe.

the exception rather than the norm but it is possible without stacking the deck

[sculpture]

What annoys me is that there is lack of competitiveness and pride amongst players.

what happened to elevating and testing your gamr against your opponent, being judged by the quality of your opponent

Now they just want to team up

[Dave D]

Hakeem
Dirk
Kawhi

Tempted to add bill Walton and second run Kobe.

the exception rather than the norm but it is possible without stacking the deck

Good list.

I agree Hakeem's title winning teams were no "super" team but he did play with 7 time champion "Big Shot Bob" Robert Horry and then the next year made a trade for Clyde Drexler, who was still a top shooting guard, though declining.

Dirk and the Mavs were the most unlikely champions since the 04 Pistons. This was the series where Lebron couldn't/wouldn't exploit defensive mismatches.

Kawhi was added to a battle tested team and he was the piece that pushed them over the top. He also had the good fortune of playing an injury plagued Warriors team and making some historic shots, but championships are often won with luck and skill. Lowry, (Marc) Gasol are all stars and former all NBA selections. They arent in their prime but they arent garbage.

Second run Kobe had Pau Gasol who was a top 10/15 player at that time, Lamar Odom, an in his prime all star who was coming off the bench, and Andrew Bynum , who was a force for the limited time he was healthy (and was also on a 2nd all nba team) and then had Ron Artest added after he had won the first title with the previous team.

[Humble Narcissist]

What annoys me is that there is lack of competitiveness and pride amongst players.

what happened to elevating and testing your gamr against your opponent, being judged by the quality of your opponent

Now they just want to team up

1) For the last few decades the sports media has made everything about winning titles.  An athlete is made fun of and has his whole career discredited and disrespected if he doesn't have titles.

2) This is the "everyone gets a trophy" generation.  When they get to the pros they don't get a trophy for showing up so they find the easiest way to get one.

3) They are non competitive pussies.  Look at the end of all NBA and NFL games these days where the athletes are laughing, high fiving and chatting it up with the other team.  You would never see that in the 70's and 80's.  Those guys wanted to crush the competition not be buddies with them.

[Army of One]

What annoys me is that there is lack of competitiveness and pride amongst players.

what happened to elevating and testing your gamr against your opponent, being judged by the quality of your opponent

Now they just want to team up

There was an article about this recently.Basically the difference between 1990 and now is all these kids have known each other and become friends since they were 10 or younger now because of the aau established since then, they have all been playing each other or with each other for years before they got to the nba.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Kawhi is the luckiest man alive. A healthy Durant and Golden state wins in 4-5 games.  Now all of a sudden he is so overhyped.  Toronto barely beat a beat up GS some games and it wasn’t because of Kawhi. Oh well.

[WoogsRaven]

Kawhi is the luckiest man alive. A healthy Durant and Golden state wins in 4-5 games.  Now all of a sudden he is so overhyped.  Toronto barely beat a beat up GS some games and it wasn’t because of Kawhi. Oh well.

How do you figure that Toronto didn't win because of Kawhi? He was the NBA finals MVP. He's a legit superstar in the NBA. Easily one of the 10 best players in the league.

[XFACTOR]

Kawhi is the luckiest man alive. A healthy Durant and Golden state wins in 4-5 games.  Now all of a sudden he is so overhyped.  Toronto barely beat a beat up GS some games and it wasn’t because of Kawhi. Oh well.

You think Kawhi is overhyped???  lol  He's arguably one of the best players in the league.  Not just offensive dominance but defense. He's such a sick defender.

[Atlas pump]

Kawhi is the luckiest man alive. A healthy Durant and Golden state wins in 4-5 games.  Now all of a sudden he is so overhyped.  Toronto barely beat a beat up GS some games and it wasn’t because of Kawhi. Oh well.

What.

Golden state barely beat toronto the 2 that they won. Wih respect to Durant, a healthy KD would most likely have GSW winning. With or without Klay raptors would of still won.  Even with Durant playing, raptors would keep the game close.

The games toronto won, were mainly blow outs with exception to the last game. If anything golden state should never of made it passed 1 game. The raptors essentially gave them game 2 with there screw ups.


GSW was a poor team!  They were completely stacked, yet the raptors with one all star managed to beat a super team.    

How many super stars and high profile players do they need?    Raptors beat golden state both regular season games with a healthy roster, without kawai


People are so salty over this debate.   Klay and curry are arguably the best 3 point shooters in the league.  Draymond and a healthy cousins are incredible defense.   They got out played by the under dog.

[Pray_4_War]

Second run Kobe had Pau Gasol who was a top 10/15 player at that time, Lamar Odom, an in his prime all star who was coming off the bench, and Andrew Bynum , who was a force for the limited time he was healthy (and was also on a 2nd all nba team) and then had Ron Artest added after he had won the first title with the previous team.

Some additional info about the Lakers roster in Kobe second Finals run.  Lamar Odom was never an all-star.  Andrew Bynum was an all-star once and 2nd team all-nba once but those came 2 years after the Laker's last finals appearance.  He was injured literally every time the Lakers were in the Finals.  He played sparingly and was clearly hindered by his knee problems when he did play.  Those 3 Finals appearances were just Kobe and Pau plus a bunch of good role players.  Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum were exceptional talents but their play was inconsistent.  They never put it all together and played up to their potential.  Also, Ron Artest in 2010 was not an improvement from Trevor Ariza in 2009.  We got a little better on defense (from 12th to 9th) but much worse on offense (from 3rd to 12th).

[El Diablo Blanco]

How do you figure that Toronto didn't win because of Kawhi? He was the NBA finals MVP. He's a legit superstar in the NBA. Easily one of the 10 best players in the league.

It Siakam playing out of his mind in game 1. Then Lowry and Ibaka in another and the raptors still barely won those games.  In one loss Kawhi didn’t score in the last 8 minutes.  Overhyped as shit. He owes it all to Durant being hurt.

[Dave D]

Some additional info about the Lakers roster in Kobe second Finals run.  Lamar Odom was never an all-star.  Andrew Bynum was an all-star once and 2nd team all-nba once but those came 2 years after the Laker's last finals appearance.  He was injured literally every time the Lakers were in the Finals.  He played sparingly and was clearly hindered by his knee problems when he did play.  Those 3 Finals appearances were just Kobe and Pau plus a bunch of good role players.  Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum were exceptional talents but their play was inconsistent.  They never put it all together and played up to their potential.  Also, Ron Artest in 2010 was not an improvement from Trevor Ariza in 2009.  We got a little better on defense (from 12th to 9th) but much worse on offense (from 3rd to 12th).

All true, I think Odom won the 6th man award the year after the last finals run. Bynum was a bum during those 2 finals, I think he had a big game against Boston, that LA lost, but I meant the Kobe Lakers weren't cast offs and Kobe. He was the best player in the league and Pau was also great.

They went to 3 straight finals and beating Boston in 7 was a incredible accomplishment, all things considered.

[GigantorX]

Dirk Nowitzki's 1 ring in Dallas is worth more than 10 of these super team championships.  He was the lone superstar and he had some good aging vets and role players.  They competed against guys like Kobe and Lebron and they were able to get a hard earned Championship.   Star players now just want to stack the deck in their favor.  Cheap rings from players with no heart.

One of the best teams of all time. Dirk is top 20 easy. And that Mavs team went through a blender just to get the finals.

[Royalty]

Before the Marty Champions account was hacked or whatever.. the REAL Falcon would’ve been all in this thread talking about the greatest player of all time: John Paxson

 

[The Scott]

Fuck the NBA. And for the record, WTF kind of "name" is "Kawhi".  A sneeze name? Did a family member sneeze "KAAAAWHI!!" just as they were mulling over what to name the probably fatherless newborn.  Again.

Fuck the NBA.

[AbrahamG]

You think Kawhi is overhyped???  lol  He's arguably one of the best players in the league.  Not just offensive dominance but defense. He's such a sick defender.

He is the best two way player in the league and has been since his San Antonio days.

[Pray_4_War]

All true, I think Odom won the 6th man award the year after the last finals run. Bynum was a bum during those 2 finals, I think he had a big game against Boston, that LA lost, but I meant the Kobe Lakers weren't cast offs and Kobe. He was the best player in the league and Pau was also great.

They went to 3 straight finals and beating Boston in 7 was a incredible accomplishment, all things considered.

Lamar had elite level talent.  It's a shame he had so much shit happening off the court.  He squandered a little bit of his talent.  He had a good career, but it could have been great.

I think the Lakers fucked themselves by chasing Andrew Bynum's potential.  He had shit knees, and he was ahead case.  As Bynum emerged, Pau's role had to diminish a bit.  He was put in more of a facilitator role and that continued until he left the team in 2014.  He's an excellent facilitator but it doesn't allow him to operate where he is most effective....in the post.  Pau was one of the best big men in the league but they didn't appreciate him.  The farther they started moving Pau away from the basket the worse the team got.  They should have shit-canned Bynum and paid Trevor Ariza.  That's my opinion anyway.

[XFACTOR]

He is the best two way player in the league and has been since his San Antonio days.

As a Raptors (season ticket holder) and Spurs (my entire life) fan I have a love/hate relationship with him. He's essentially won rings for my two fav teams yet he's left us hanging.

Regardless you his raw talent is off the charts. The Spurs developed him so well.  People forget about defense and how good this guy is on d, let alone dropping 30 a game. In that Milwaukee series when Nick Nurse switched up and put Kawhi on Giannis it changed the entire series. He's so fucking good, I'm fully devastated he left.