Vlad Suhoruchko - Did any of YOU look like this at 24?!

[joswift]

350 is already a very good amount, and way overkill according to those who preach 50-100 grams. It might be enough to maximize everything for 99.99% of bodybuilders. But then again some heavyweights might do a bit better on somewhat more. The absolute biggest freaks often sit at maybe 500 grams and a few have gone over. Often bodybuilders find the optimal spot by instinct. I remember Milos had told Nasser to eat like 450 but Nasser went with 600 and when he made the switch Milos said he put on a shitload of stage weight. And we know Milos likes to credit drugs but here he gave a lot of credit to the protein. Of course Nasser liked to say he ate 80 grams of protein a day lol.

science says the human digestive system simply cant absorb that amount of protien.
I dont care how many drugs you take its the drugs not the protien, I know someone who eats miniscule amounts of protein ( vegan only eats veg)but still adds muscle when he uses gear..

[Van_Bilderass]

science says the human digestive system simply cant absorb that amount of protien.
I dont care how many drugs you take its the drugs not the protien, I know someone who eats miniscule amounts of protein ( vegan only eats veg)but still adds muscle when he uses gear..

Science says a human is able to digest hundreds of grams of protein at a single sitting. Yes it has been studied. How much protein can many people eat until they get diarrhea or start puking due to overwhelming the digestive system? A lot. Some think you can only digest 20 or 30 grams at a time but that is false. Note that "digest" doesn't mean convert to muscle. That is something else. If you couldn't digest and utilize a lot of protein at single feedings you couldn't survive by eating once a day, but you can because the body is smarter than that.

Drugs can be compared to protein. You can grow on 200mg of test but it doesn't mean muscle growth is maximized at 200mg. And drugs don't make you synthesize muscle out of thin air either. All the promotional literature on anabolics since their invention stressed the need for adequate nutrition because drugs without nutrition are nearly worthless. When I was in the hospital after having lost 70lbs of "muscle" they kept giving me protein shakes. Why?

[joswift]

Science says a human is able to digest hundreds of grams of protein at a single sitting. Yes it has been studied. How much protein can many people eat until they get diarrhea or start puking due to overwhelming the digestive system? A lot. Some think you can only digest 20 or 30 grams at a time but that is false. Note that "digest" doesn't mean convert to muscle. That is something else. If you couldn't digest and utilize a lot of protein at single feedings you couldn't survive by eating once a day, but you can because the body is smarter than that.

Drugs can be compared to protein. You can grow on 200mg of test but it doesn't mean muscle growth is maximized at 200mg. And drugs don't make you synthesize muscle out of thin air either. All the promotional literature on anabolics since their invention stressed the need for adequate nutrition because drugs without nutrition are nearly worthless. When I was in the hospital after having lost 70lbs of "muscle" they kept giving me protein shakes. Why?

because they are absorbed easier than solid food..

Every time you take a shit its all the foood you ate that your body didnt need.

When will people wake up to the fact that shitting all the time means you are eating too much

[MAXX]

350 is already a very good amount, and way overkill according to those who preach 50-100 grams. It might be enough to maximize everything for 99.99% of bodybuilders. But then again some heavyweights might do a bit better on somewhat more. The absolute biggest freaks often sit at maybe 500 grams and a few have gone over. Often bodybuilders find the optimal spot by instinct. I remember Milos had told Nasser to eat like 450 but Nasser went with 600 and when he made the switch Milos said he put on a shitload of stage weight. And we know Milos likes to credit drugs but here he gave a lot of credit to the protein. Of course Nasser liked to say he ate 80 grams of protein a day lol.

Jay Cutler 600+

Kai Greene was at 700 when he won all the time in 2008-11 or whenever it was

Kai Greene diet:
16 oz steak, 12 egg whites, quart of white rice
2.2 chicken breasts, turkey burger, pint of white rice
16 oz salmon, 6 egg whites, large green salad
4.16 oz steak, 2 sweet potatoes
16 oz salmon, 2 cups oatmeal with raisins, cup of corn
shake 85 grams of protein, cup cashews or avocado
16 oz steak, 2 cups mixed vegetables

= 700+ grams protein

[Van_Bilderass]

because they are absorbed easier than solid food..

Every time you take a shit its all the foood you ate that your body didnt need.

When will people wake up to the fact that shitting all the time means you are eating too much

The body "utilizes" more than it needs though. A 600lbs morbidly obese person for sure shits a lot but they also digest and convert all those calories into bodyfat.

I don't remember what feces typically consist of, what the bulk is but from memory it probably isn't a ton of undigested protein for example. I know many who go on high protein/zero carb diets start shitting a lot less, to the point where it becomes a problem because some people need to shit at 10AM every day or they go nuts.

[Van_Bilderass]

Jay Cutler 600+

Kai Greene was at 700 when he won all the time in 2008-11 or whenever it was

Kai Greene diet:
16 oz steak, 12 egg whites, quart of white rice
2.2 chicken breasts, turkey burger, pint of white rice
16 oz salmon, 6 egg whites, large green salad
4.16 oz steak, 2 sweet potatoes
16 oz salmon, 2 cups oatmeal with raisins, cup of corn
shake 85 grams of protein, cup cashews or avocado
16 oz steak, 2 cups mixed vegetables

= 700+ grams protein

When Kai Greene was hinting he was going vegan you had 115lb Indian beanpoles telling him how great it was, "you will grow just as well, you don't need all that animal protein" LOL.
There might also have been a few fruitarians telling him all he needed was fruit 

If all the heavyweights eat protein in a certain range there might be something to it.

[pamith]

Tbh Russians have crazy genetics

[Hypertrophy]

Science says a human is able to digest hundreds of grams of protein at a single sitting. Yes it has been studied.

But why?  This is from 2018.

"Quantifying a maximum amount of protein per meal that can be utilized for muscle anabolism has been a challenging pursuit due to the multitude of variables open for investigation. Perhaps the most comprehensive synthesis of findings in this area has been done by Morton et al. , who concluded that 0.4 g/kg/meal would optimally stimulate MPS. "

and "The collective body of evidence indicates that total daily protein intake for the goal of maximizing resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength is approximately 1.6 g/kg, at least in non-dieting (eucaloric or hypercaloric) conditions [6]."
So, a 100Kg bodybuilder would consume 40 gm per meal, and 160 grams per day.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5828430/

[joswift]

Jay Cutler 600+

Kai Greene was at 700 when he won all the time in 2008-11 or whenever it was

Kai Greene diet:
16 oz steak, 12 egg whites, quart of white rice
2.2 chicken breasts, turkey burger, pint of white rice
16 oz salmon, 6 egg whites, large green salad
4.16 oz steak, 2 sweet potatoes
16 oz salmon, 2 cups oatmeal with raisins, cup of corn
shake 85 grams of protein, cup cashews or avocado
16 oz steak, 2 cups mixed vegetables

= 700+ grams protein

Zack Khan ate 4500 cals off season, probably half what Kai was eating

[Van_Bilderass]

But why?  This is from 2018.

Yes but there's more to growth than MPS. Muscle protein breakdown, maintaining regeneration of non-muscle tissue and so on. Then you have the influence of the drugs the big bodybuilders are on. Plus some studies have shown older individuals may need twice the grams of protein for maximal MPS vs younger individuals. I think there was some recent study saying 70 grams in a meal was advantageous compared to less.

But: would you be confident in predicting that if heavyweight bodybuilders reduced their protein intakes to what the MPS data says they would be just as muscular? I wouldn't. I don't think the last word has been said wrt optimal protein intake.

[oldtimer1]

This is one healthy sport.

[wes]

Kai Greene diet:
16 oz steak, 12 egg whites, quart of white rice
2.2 chicken breasts, turkey burger, pint of white rice
16 oz salmon, 6 egg whites, large green salad
4.16 oz steak, 2 sweet potatoes
16 oz salmon, 2 cups oatmeal with raisins, cup of corn
shake 85 grams of protein, cup cashews or avocado
16 oz steak, 2 cups mixed vegetables

= 700+ grams protein

A mere snack for Bhank !! 

[IroNat]

Excess protein is converted to glucose and excess glucose is converted to fat.

Steroids enable greater protein utilization.

We know how much Bhanky sh"ts.

We need more data on pro-bodybuilder sh*tting.

[bhank]

I don't shit excess protein think about how we evolved we would go hungry for days then kill something and eat several pounds of meat. You telling me our bodies only utilize 30g bullshit. Meat takes time to digest everyone is always talking about protein per meal and day when they need to think about per week. Shit I am cooking a 1 pound New York Strip right now as it is a slow digesting protein that will feed me in my sleep tonight. You telling me I am only going to use 40g yeah right

[Humble Narcissist]

Yummy 

[IroNat]

I don't shit excess protein think about how we evolved we would go hungry for days then kill something and eat several pounds of meat. You telling me our bodies only utilize 30g bullshit. Meat takes time to digest everyone is always talking about protein per meal and day when they need to think about per week. Shit I am cooking a 1 pound New York Strip right now as it is a slow digesting protein that will feed me in my sleep tonight. You telling me I am only going to use 40g yeah right

Bhanky, don't forget to show Getbig your next bowel movement for proof of protein utilization.

[Humble Narcissist]

Bhanky, don't forget to show Getbig your next bowel movement for proof of protein utilization.

Don't encourage him, please.

[SOMEPARTS]

There might also have been a few fruitarians telling him all he needed was fruit 

Let's not go there.

[Van_Bilderass]

I don't shit excess protein think about how we evolved we would go hungry for days then kill something and eat several pounds of meat. You telling me our bodies only utilize 30g bullshit. Meat takes time to digest everyone is always talking about protein per meal and day when they need to think about per week. Shit I am cooking a 1 pound New York Strip right now as it is a slow digesting protein that will feed me in my sleep tonight. You telling me I am only going to use 40g yeah right

Yes the body is smart, it doesn't dump all of the protein in the bloodstream all at once. It takes time to digest. Even an ultra-fast protein like whey is digested at like 7 grams per hour. Even if that figure is slightly off, going by memory, the point is that digestion takes time, the bigger the serving the longer it takes.

I have a vague recollection about some digestion study saying some could handle like 600 grams of protein in a short window. Don't quote me on that though.

There are some proteins that are poorly digested though, like raw egg at only 50%. When cooked egg has a bioavailability of about 98%. I remember the gh15 fad of raw egg white with pineapple juice. Would be easy to consume a lot but also like throwing away 50% of the protein.

[joswift]

Yes the body is smart, it doesn't dump all of the protein in the bloodstream all at once. It takes time to digest. Even an ultra-fast protein like whey is digested at like 7 grams per hour. Even if that figure is slightly off, going by memory, the point is that digestion takes time, the bigger the serving the longer it takes.

I have a vague recollection about some digestion study saying some could handle like 600 grams of protein in a short window. Don't quote me on that though.

There are some proteins that are poorly digested though, like raw egg at only 50%. When cooked egg has a bioavailability of about 98%. I remember the gh15 fad of raw egg white with pineapple juice. Would be easy to consume a lot but also like throwing away 50% of the protein.

unless you can quote it we can just say it didnt happen.

[BB]

But why?  This is from 2018.

"Quantifying a maximum amount of protein per meal that can be utilized for muscle anabolism has been a challenging pursuit due to the multitude of variables open for investigation. Perhaps the most comprehensive synthesis of findings in this area has been done by Morton et al. , who concluded that 0.4 g/kg/meal would optimally stimulate MPS. "

and "The collective body of evidence indicates that total daily protein intake for the goal of maximizing resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength is approximately 1.6 g/kg, at least in non-dieting (eucaloric or hypercaloric) conditions [6]."
So, a 100Kg bodybuilder would consume 40 gm per meal, and 160 grams per day.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5828430/

To be fair, the authors also link off to another study touting 2.2g/Kg in this paragraph -

"However, 1.6 g/kg/day should not be viewed as an ironclad or universal limit beyond which protein intake will be either wasted or used for physiological demands aside from muscle growth. A recent meta-analysis on protein supplementation involving resistance trainees reported an upper 95% confidence interval (CI) of 2.2 g/kg/day [6]. Bandegan et al. "

(Study paper mentioned -  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5867436/ )

Relevant paragraph from that - 

"These results are largely in congruence with previous narrative reviews that comment on the optimal nutritional strategies to augment skeletal muscle adaptation during RET.3 86 Given that the CI of this estimate spanned from 1.03 to 2.20, it may be prudent to recommend ~2.2 g protein/kg/d for those seeking to maximise resistance training-induced gains in FFM. Though we acknowledge that there are limitations to this approach, we propose that these findings are based on reasonable evidence and theory and provide a pragmatic estimate with an incumbent error that the reader could take into consideration."

-----------------------------------------

Other papers some might find interesting -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5828430/ .

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033492/ .

Here's one using 4.4g/kg for the high protein group, while they say it didn't do anything over a moderate intake, you can still see that the high protein group added slightly more mass -

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-19 / .

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-19/tables/2 .

[Van_Bilderass]

unless you can quote it we can just say it didnt happen.

I'm going to see if I can find it. Again it was in the context of digestion only, not anabolism. Quick google on my recollection of 70 grams of protein being potentially advantageous over lesser amounts:

Given that muscular development is a function of the dynamic balance between MPS and muscle protein breakdown (MPB), both of these variables must be considered in any discussion on dietary protein dosage. Kim et al. [24] endeavored to investigate this topic by provision of either 40 or 70 g of beef protein consumed as part of a mixed meal on two distinct occasions separated by a ~ 1 week washout period. Results showed that the higher protein intake promoted a significantly greater whole-body anabolic response, which was primarily attributed to a greater attenuation of protein breakdown.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-018-0215-1

AND:

A long-held misperception in the lay public is that there is a limit to how much protein can be absorbed by the body. From a nutritional standpoint, the term “absorption” describes the passage of nutrients from the gut into systemic circulation. Based on this definition, the amount of protein that can be absorbed is virtually unlimited

.

[Sissysquats]

 No matter how much protein this guy can utilize he will be dead by 50 if he makes it that long

[ThisisOverload]

I'm going to see if I can find it. Again it was in the context of digestion only, not anabolism. Quick google on my recollection of 70 grams of protein being potentially advantageous over lesser amounts:

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-018-0215-1

AND:
.

I'm curious about absorbed versus utilized.

At what point are you just pissing/shitting it all out?

I can drink 4 gallons of water a day, but it will not benefit me in any way.

I know protein works differently than that, but you get my point.

The biggest guys i ever trained with consumed around 5-600 grams of protein a day.

I could never handle it, not worth it to me. I tried for a few weeks and it was miserable. It's also terrible for your health long term.

At my biggest and strongest i was consuming around 3-400 per day, for nearly 3 years. It was hard to do it every single day due to work and personal obligations.

[Van_Bilderass]

I'm curious about absorbed versus utilized.

At what point are you just pissing/shitting it all out?

I don't think you are pissing and shitting it out as such. It gets converted to glucose and then handled like glucose is handled. Although protein doesn't easily convert to fat, like glucose, it can still contribute to getting fat since whatever fat you eat on top of the protein will be more likely to be stored if you are in caloric excess from protein/carbs.

I don't think you can much force yourself to grow muscular by massive protein intakes but we see that the biggest guys generally eat a lot of protein. Their bodies are kind of telling them we are doing well with it and appetite is high. If we can't eat a lot that is the body telling us we are genetically not meant to be very big. Bodybuilders have often arrived at certain conclusions by instinct and later science has proven them right.

I have problems eating a lot of protein. Even protein shakes are hard to get down. Sometimes I have told myself that I will forcefeed say 400 grams for a few months just to see what would happen but I just can't stick with it. MK-677 was amazing for increasing food intake but that substance isn't necessarily very healthy due to its effect on blood sugar and the massive water retention.