Learning Thread - *Atheism*

[Butterbean]

Would someone like to get us started?  Johnny?

Why do you believe Atheism is correct?

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

I'm curious as to what stems the non-belief in religion(s).  A household with parents who have no religious beliefs?  Tragedies in life where you feel as if your God betrayed or was not there for you etc., so you decided to go without religion in your life?  etc. etc. etc.  Some sort of reverse spiritual awakening?

How difficult is it to "grow up Atheist" in a society that is dominated by religion...Regardless of which religion(s)?

[Always Sore]

atheism is to me a ship with no rudder in the ocean. you could chose a course but don't. you acknowledge your in a boat and in a ocean but give no thought to why?

[Colossus_500]

I'm curious as to what stems the non-belief in religion(s).  A household with parents who have no religious beliefs?  Tragedies in life where you feel as if your God betrayed or was not there for you etc., so you decided to go without religion in your life?  etc. etc. etc.  Some sort of reverse spiritual awakening?

How difficult is it to "grow up Atheist" in a society that is dominated by religion...Regardless of which religion(s)?

My guess is that it's based on experiences in childhood or tragic events just as you say.  I've even done a small little study that always seems to yield the same results... People who did not have a good relationship with their "earthly" father have very hard time believing in God.   And when this case isn't true, usually there's been some sort of event in a person's life that leaves them angry at God for hardships incurred.

[OzmO]

My guess is that it's based on experiences in childhood or tragic events just as you say.  I've even done a small little study that always seems to yield the same results... People who did not have a good relationship with their "earthly" father have very hard time believing in God.   And when this case isn't true, usually there's been some sort of event in a person's life that leaves them angry at God for hardships incurred.

Interesting about the father part...  I've always seen athiests as overly analytical people who need to see proof of everything to believe it.  For example, a group of people might be playing monopoly and someone might quote a rule and the one who always needs to see proof will refuse to continiue the game until he/she reads the rules themselves.

Remember the movie "Contact?"  Jodie foster played it real well as an athiest.  She needed to have proof otherwise she wouldn't consider it true.  Much like Johnny is on some level.  Belief in possibities and intangibles is what makes life so interresting combined with our journey fo discovering ourselves is part of what makes life worth living.  It's hard for me to understand fully why an athiest would feel that way and in many ways i feel sorry for them, not that i should becuase i have not walked in their shoes.

[Johnny Apollo]

First let's define "Atheist". There are different definitions of Atheist. Two basic types of Atheists.

Atheist-One who denies the existence of a God.

Atheist-One who lacks belief in the existence of a God.


The first being "Strong" Atheist the second being "Weak" Atheist.

I am a "Weak Atheist". I do not deny the existence of a God. I simply lack belief. I neither claim there is or there is not a God. I have no proof one way or the other so I lack a belief one way or the other.


I simply do not believe a God does exist. The reason being there is no evidence a God does exist. I wasn't raised in an Atheist home. Both parents were Christians and I used to be a Christian myself. It was more of a gradual progress into critical thinking. Starting when I was a teenager.


Belief in a God is baseless. It is not based on any form of proof or evidence. All of the arguments for the existence of a God fall apart easily. Either based on lies or logical fallacies.

Moreover, The best appraoch in choosing your belief is to choose based on what you can prove. If you can prove a God exists then you should believe. If you can't prove a God exists then belief in a God isn't logical. Simply put.

People say "Oh,But it's faith!". What does faith even mean? Faith is defined as a belief without proof. Faith is in and of itself illogical. I don't have "faith". Does not having "faith" make me a negative person? No. I have hope but not faith. Hope is defined as the wishing something to be true. Faith is believing it's true. Big difference. Wishing for something and believing in something are a world apart.


Belief in a God is as Freud put it..A primal urge to have a "daddy figure". When you're growing up you can look up to your father as a protector. As you grow up you realize he can't protect you from everything and you need to fend for yourself more and more. Weak people refuse to admit they aren't being "watched over" by some fantastic father figure in the clouds. So they invent "God" to be that father figure watching over them.


In short Atheism is the most logical view. Weak Atheism can't be refuted or shown to have flaws. All it is is a lack of belief for what can't be proven. Skepticism of the uncertain. Incredulity of the incredible. Doubt of the doubtful.

[Johnny Apollo]

I'm curious as to what stems the non-belief in religion(s).  A household with parents who have no religious beliefs?  Tragedies in life where you feel as if your God betrayed or was not there for you etc., so you decided to go without religion in your life?  etc. etc. etc.  Some sort of reverse spiritual awakening?

How difficult is it to "grow up Atheist" in a society that is dominated by religion...Regardless of which religion(s)?

I don't feel God betrayed me anymore than I feel Santa Claus betrayed me for not getting me that baseball bat for my 5th birthday!


How hard is it to grow up as an Atheist? Not that hard. In Europe it isn't dominated by religion as much as in America. A good majroity of the population are atheists. America is extremly religious but even I doubt it's hard to grow up in America being an Atheist.

[Johnny Apollo]

atheism is to me a ship with no rudder in the ocean. you could chose a course but don't. you acknowledge your in a boat and in a ocean but give no thought to why?

Nonsense.


I can't speak for all Atheists but I personally DO give thought as to why i'm in a boat in the ocean.

Difference between Atheists and Religious people..Religious people make up reasons as to why they are in the middle of the ocean. Atheists like myself observe and experiment and look for evidence as to why we are where we are. We formulate hypothesis and test these hypothesis and then come up with scientifically supported conclusions based on facts and evidence as to why we are where we are! We don't simply say "Oh,A God put us here and that's all there is to it!"  

[Johnny Apollo]

Interesting about the father part...  I've always seen athiests as overly analytical people who need to see proof of everything to believe it.  For example, a group of people might be playing monopoly and someone might quote a rule and the one who always needs to see proof will refuse to continiue the game until he/she reads the rules themselves.

Big difference between trusting people you know and trusting in something not supported by an ounce of evidence..I.E a "God".

Remember the movie "Contact?"  Jodie foster played it real well as an athiest.  She needed to have proof otherwise she wouldn't consider it true.  Much like Johnny is on some level.  Belief in possibities and intangibles is what makes life so interresting combined with our journey fo discovering ourselves is part of what makes life worth living.  It's hard for me to understand fully why an athiest would feel that way and in many ways i feel sorry for them, not that i should becuase i have not walked in their shoes.

"Belief in possibilities and intangiblies is what makes life so interresting"? Bullshit.

What makes life so interested is not believing in nonsense and myths.

What makes life so interesteting is finding out what is REAL and studying that. Finding the mysteries to the universe and solving them. Learning new things about the world we live in and not making nonsense up. That's what makes life interesting!


You feel sorry for me? A critical thinker? I feel sorry for YOU. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't see the world as it is and instead tries to see it how they wished it were. The universe is a beautiful place as it is. Inventing Ghosts and goblins and faries and Gods only waters down the whole experience. Baseless hogwash is what it all is. And belief in it makes ME feel sorry for YOU.

[Always Sore]

Nonsense.


I can't speak for all Atheists but I personally DO give thought as to why i'm in a boat in the ocean.

Difference between Atheists and Religious people..Religious people make up reasons as to why they are in the middle of the ocean. Atheists like myself observe and experiment and look for evidence as to why we are where we are. We formulate hypothesis and test these hypothesis and then come up with scientifically supported conclusions based on facts and evidence as to why we are where we are! We don't simply say "Oh,A God put us here and that's all there is to it!"  

i don't mind when others have a different opinion or thought but i do mind when someone takes what i write and works to dismiss it to make there point.

my point is you may by your definition look for a reason thru deduction and investigation to find a reason why you are in a sea and why you are in a boat but in your zeal to discount the thought of a "god" you discount the posibility since there is no tanagable proof.using history as a example of how theory and ideas change thru time and advancement it easy to come to the conclusion that maybe all the answers are not easy to understand and conclusions written in stone in one time or place can become changed and wrong.

in all your scientific discovery it comes down to something very simple. if "god" was something you could taste or touch or see or hear or feel why by definition would you ever need faith? if i tell you about a situation (will never happen) that happen to me and give you all the "facts" how can you disprove what i experenced? there is no way to "test" of recreate the situation so either you believe what happened as "fact" or you choose not to.

i tend to be very tolerant of peoples beliefs, if what you think is right and it makes you happy so be it because someone will be right and someone will be wrong in the end and it wont matter. i think the problem i have with atheist is it not a choice its a conclusion (there is no action if the action is to not make a choice to believe or not to believe) its pure and simple fence sitting i can't find "proof" so ergo there is no god.in that theory if i cannot get into a locked room and cannot see into a locked room and i cannot get around to see any sides of a locked room then it does not exsist. its a conclusion of the lazy or scared to not want to think past ones own self.

[Johnny Apollo]

my point is you may by your definition look for a reason thru deduction and investigation to find a reason why you are in a sea and why you are in a boat but in your zeal to discount the thought of a "god" you discount the posibility since there is no tanagable proof.using history as a example of how theory and ideas change thru time and advancement it easy to come to the conclusion that maybe all the answers are not easy to understand and conclusions written in stone in one time or place can become changed and wrong.

I'm not discounting the idea that a "God" may of made this universe(or in your analogy put us in the ocean). However I AM discounting the ARGUMENTS put forth that claim to prove such a thing happened.

True. Ideas in science change through time. However they only change through proof. I hold out on any possibility. I never dismiss anything. However I also never believe anything unless there's proof.

in all your scientific discovery it comes down to something very simple. if "god" was something you could taste or touch or see or hear or feel why by definition would you ever need faith? if i tell you about a situation (will never happen) that happen to me and give you all the "facts" how can you disprove what i experenced? there is no way to "test" of recreate the situation so either you believe what happened as "fact" or you choose not to.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. If you tell me of a "miracle" that happened to you(Has been done several times by other christians) then you'd have to prove it happened through facts,Not "accounts". In science "because he says so" isn't proof of anything. Unless you can prove such things occured then they're useless to me.

I choose not to believe fantastical accounts from people who claim they are miracles. I choose not to believe UNTIL they provide evidence.
People lie.
People get confused.
People fool other people.
People fool themselves.

i tend to be very tolerant of peoples beliefs, if what you think is right and it makes you happy so be it because someone will be right and someone will be wrong in the end and it wont matter. i think the problem i have with atheist is it not a choice its a conclusion (there is no action if the action is to not make a choice to believe or not to believe) its pure and simple fence sitting i can't find "proof" so ergo there is no god.in that theory if i cannot get into a locked room and cannot see into a locked room and i cannot get around to see any sides of a locked room then it does not exsist. its a conclusion of the lazy or scared to not want to think past ones own self.

You're missing the entire point of my former posts.

I NEVER conclude "There is no evidence for a god so there is no God." That would be a logical fallacy called "Argument from ignorance".

Fence sitting is the best option when the facts aren't known. You can't make the conclusion there is a God since there is no proof of that. Nor can you make the conclusion there isn't a God since there is no proof for that either.

I doubt there is a "God" but I don't say there isn't one 100%. I simply don't believe there is. Lack of belief and belief against are two different things.

[alexxx]

Are atheists really a cult started by Hitler?

[Johnny Apollo]

Are atheists really a cult started by Hitler?

Atheism isn't a foundation or a society or anything like that. It's simply a stance on the existence of God's.

Atheists go back to the Greeks. Many Greek philosophers were Atheists and the word itself has greek origins.

"Atheist" comes from greek "Atheos" meaning "Godless"

[alexxx]

Atheism isn't a foundation or a society or anything like that. It's simply a stance on the existence of God's.

Atheists go back to the Greeks. Many Greek philosophers were Atheists and the word itself has greek origins.

"Atheist" comes from greek "Atheos" meaning "Godless"

What is your theory about the earth's creation?

[Johnny Apollo]

What is your theory about the earth's creation?

Do you mean "Scientific theory" or "laymen theory"? Two are very different.

A "laymen theory" is a guess. A "Scientific theory" is a complex conceptual framework explaining a phenmenon with facts and experiment.

So which one?

[alexxx]

Do you mean "Scientific theory" or "laymen theory"? Two are very different.

A "laymen theory" is a guess. A "Scientific theory" is a complex conceptual framework explaining a phenmenon with facts and experiment.

So which one?

Whiever one you believe to be true. So I guess for you its the scientific theory.

[alexxx]

I got you cornered johnny! Evolution is a fraud!

[Johnny Apollo]

Just because I don't reply instantly doesn't mean anything. I have a life you know.



Whichever I think is right? That does not make sense. They're two different things.


What is my belief supported by facts about the earths creation? Long story short...Gravity. Gravity is responsible for the formation of the earth.

[OzmO]

Big difference between trusting people you know and trusting in something not supported by an ounce of evidence..I.E a "God".

Johnny, you seem to get the woring idea about alot of things then get snippy about it.

What i said was an observation about people's behavior.  No shit, theirs a big difference in trusting poeple you know and trusting evidence.

"Belief in possibilities and intangiblies is what makes life so interresting"? Bullshit.

What makes life so interested is not believing in nonsense and myths.

What makes life so interesteting is finding out what is REAL and studying that. Finding the mysteries to the universe and solving them. Learning new things about the world we live in and not making nonsense up. That's what makes life interesting!

"Belief in possibilities and intangiblies is what makes life so interresting"  Absolutley!  The possiblity or a clean burning cost effiecienct fuel source.  The possibility of the absense of suffering and hunger, the possibiltiy or harvesting resources form the moon, the possbility of love,  etc...  NOT   "Inventing Ghosts and goblins and faries and Gods only waters down the whole experience"



That's the thing about you Johnny,  what you lack in social competence is replace by general combativeness and arrogance.  That's why i feel sorry for you.  Combined with th fact you work 7 days a week or at least use it as an excuse not to face Mr. Intenseone Man to Man.

[Johnny Apollo]

Johnny, you seem to get the woring idea about alot of things then get snippy about it.

What i said was an observation about people's behavior.  No shit, theirs a big difference in trusting poeple you know and trusting evidence.

"Belief in possibilities and intangiblies is what makes life so interresting"  Absolutley!  The possiblity or a clean burning cost effiecienct fuel source.  The possibility of the absense of suffering and hunger, the possibiltiy or harvesting resources form the moon, the possbility of love,  etc...  NOT   "Inventing Ghosts and goblins and faries and Gods only waters down the whole experience"



That's the thing about you Johnny,  what you lack in social competence is replace by general combativeness and arrogance.  That's why i feel sorry for you.  Combined with th fact you work 7 days a week or at least use it as an excuse not to face Mr. Intenseone Man to Man.

The problem isn't with me. It's with your lack of comprehension of the english language.


"Belief in possibilites" should imply you literally BELIEVE in whatever is possible. Which is absurdity.

Replace "belief" with "hope" and "possibilities" with "Good possibilities" and i'd agree.

Pure "belief" in whatever is possible even if not supported by evidence makes no sense.

[OzmO]

"Belief in possibilites" should imply you literally BELIEVE in whatever is possible.

You'd make a great Bible Literalist!

You should read a book on social interaction and communication.  YOU NEED IT.

[Johnny Apollo]

You'd make a great Bible Literalist!

You should read a book on social interaction and communication.  YOU NEED IT.

You should read a book on the english language.

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

You should read a book on the english language.

"STELLA MEY OF EDITID POST"   

[OzmO]

You should read a book on the english language.

If a book on the english language directly reflected with 100% accuracy how people communicate these days then you might have a point.  But they don't. 

So your point holds water like a strainer.

More social ineptness evidence.

[alexxx]

Just because I don't reply instantly doesn't mean anything. I have a life you know.



Whichever I think is right? That does not make sense. They're two different things.


What is my belief supported by facts about the earths creation? Long story short...Gravity. Gravity is responsible for the formation of the earth.

So gravity made your online girlfriend$$?