Author Topic: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!  (Read 20634 times)

Double XL

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 2880
Re: Toxixavenger what planet u live in
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2006, 10:40:13 AM »
YES, RONNIE LOOKS MUCH MORE SOLID IN THAT SHOT, THANKS FOR THAT PIC, HERES ANOTHER PIC SHOWING HOW MUCH MORE SOLID RONNIE IS.

[img]http://nono.com/0ICJ

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2006, 10:41:34 AM »
Oldtimers if they're biased will go for 1950-1970s physiques, so Yates won't benefit.

Yates & Jay is a closer comparison. Yates wins thanks to better density and a little less blockiness.


theonlyone

  • Guest
Re: Toxixavenger what planet u live in
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2006, 10:59:54 AM »
1992 Yates could take the Mr O crown off 2002 Coleman Uornie. Could easily if'd have known what the crop is?

Palpatine Q

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24132
  • Disdain/repugnance....Version 3: glare variation B
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2006, 11:31:24 AM »
1) experience is the greatest teacher right?   so how come you can judge juicers when you dont have experience juicing?

2) you r a relative noob..and i dont say that to demean ya..hell ..right now you prolly train more and harder then i do..however..one DOES get a feel for the sport that betters with experience ie time.


ASK any OLD TIMER AND THEY'LL SIDE WITH DORIAN...mostly only noobs side with ronnie..

why is that?


It's called AGEism. You think the things that were in vogue when you were young will never be topped, be it music,sports, athletes etc. By the way I'm 38 and I think Ronnie fVcking crushes Dorian's nutsack.

nicorulez

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1674
  • Getbig!
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2006, 06:40:47 PM »
No...Ronnie ownz Dorian in that shot.  I am getting tired about all of these pointless threads.  Each has a fav..go with it.  I personally thinks Ronnie wins, but Haney had size and shape that Doz and Ronnie could only dream about.  Imagine if Haney took all the shiate that these two take; he would have owned both of them.  Regardless, it is a moot point as they will never face off.  Ronnie has more pleasing lines and is bigger; Dorian is tighter.  If you ask me, if the judging were legit, they would likely trade off the Olympia from year to year.  Only BB has a champion that is never defeated. Hell, even Pete Sampras and the Lakers got beat from time to time.  The blatant favortism in BB is the reason it will never go mainstream....and the fact that the guys on stage are frickin mutants who scare most of the world. ;D

phyxsius

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6264
  • Mini Getbigger
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2006, 07:30:29 PM »
Nobody could touch Dorian in back width and no one could touch Ronnie in the upper back muscularity.

ENOUGH SAID
I am a mini beast

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22968
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2006, 07:49:31 PM »
Dorian may have been "dense" looking but the fact of the matter is this:

he lacked the striations and detail to make the density of his muscles truly stand out.

for example, for all those who say Ronnie is "not as dense as dorian" look at these shots:



Dorian never looked this dry-except for ONE SINGLE bodypart: the lower back.

so, for starters, the whole idea  that Dorian "was more dense than Ronnie (when Ronnie was in shape) is wrong.

Secondly, the whole premise of this entire thread is flawed, simply because dorian lacked the detail in his arms and legs so being dense didn't really matter:



What good is being dense when your arms and legs look like this, even when in great shape.

Now, IF Dorian had been detailed AND dense, then he would have had something.

But density by itself doesn't really mean much.  Combined with the lack of good muscle shape and body taper, and you have a great recipe for overrated hype.

Notice what details and shape can do for you, even if people think you are "not as dense":


look at Ronnie's delts - they blow dorian's away, even if they are "not as dense"..


again, check out the quads- Dorian's supposed "density" doesn't really do much for him in the leg department, does it?

so, in closing, saying that Dorian was "more dense" is meaningless because in order for that density to have an impact, you need detail and shape to go with it.

And in the arms and legs, Dorian was missing this.

And besides, as I showed above, ronnie doesn't exactly look like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man when he is in shape...

Flower Boy Ran Away

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22968
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2006, 08:00:12 PM »

Its more than just the delts, look at how much more impressive Ronnie's overall arms are- Dorian's density is totally useless against someone like Ronnie because the details and shape just are not there.

You would expect that someone as huge and dense as Dorian to be really impressive in shot like the most muscular, but in fact he was not.

Why?

He lacked the overall body shape and detail in crucial large bodyparts (arm complex and quads) to be truly impressive:



When I see shots of Dorian from the front, I see undetailed quads and arms TIME AND TIME again.

So, someone please explain what was so great about Dorian's "density" again??  It sure doesn't makes his arms and quads very impressive, and his chest doesn't look that great either, at least Compared to Ronnie:



Flower Boy Ran Away

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2006, 08:27:03 PM »
umm, no, but dorian was more dense, dry and shredded  ::)
follow the arrows

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2006, 08:31:07 PM »
and youre just a noob who's never juiced..unlike the older guys who'd rather side with good old dorian. You see, bias coming from dorian nuthuggers is obviously more authentic than the "noobs" who think ronnie is better

LOL
follow the arrows

Mussolini

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • riding shotgun on the team Nasser War wagon
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2006, 08:33:01 PM »
I vote for Dorian, but this is so subjective.

I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.


Dorian owned Ronnie every time they competed against each other, and I see know good reason why he couldnt have continued to do so if he desired.
shotgun on the team

Double XL

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 2880
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2006, 08:36:53 PM »
Everything on Ronnie blows Dorian away except abs and calves.
DONT FORGET DORIANS GRAINY CONDITIONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[img]http://nono.com/0ICJ

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22968
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2006, 08:37:03 PM »
I vote for Dorian, but this is so subjective.

I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.


Dorian owned Ronnie every time they competed against each other, and I see know good reason why he couldnt have continued to do so if he desired.

I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.

Flower Boy Ran Away

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22968
  • ND ran away from me
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2006, 08:42:07 PM »
"grainy" is just another word for "undetailed":


Flower Boy Ran Away

GMCtrk

  • Guest
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2006, 08:46:40 PM »
I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.



And ronnie wouldn't be anything close to a 8 time olympia winner if Yates didnt have the injuries. Yates would be the one going for 10

gibberj2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2921
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2006, 09:01:17 PM »
this is really stupid. if you like dorian you just put good pics of him and bad ones of ronnie. and if you like ronnie you put good ones of him and bad ones of dorian.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2006, 09:09:45 PM »
What an original idea for a thread.

Someday, someone will propose a brilliant idea like comparing Ronnie to Arnold.


I can't wait!!!!

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2006, 09:11:50 PM »
Ronnie has more volume than Dorian...much more ...however Dorian kills Ronnie in density...Ronnie cant hold a candle to Dorian (who can?..viator?? ) as far as density is concerned.

remember Dillet ws king volume..but..he always looked watery..esp from the back...its the same concept (for ya noobs)


i side with density.


thats 1 vote for density!   so me thinks Dorian wins over Ronnie



WHY?

drugs can give you volume ...its just a matter of escalating dosages..density is a matter of genetics and hard heavy consistent work.

that will be all...


folks that have never juiced in their life (double XL etc) need not respond to this thread...for obvious reasons...

 
  Couldn't agree more . You have dimplified the debate. Ronnie's muscles appear fuller than Dorian's, but Dorian's appear harder and "tighter" than Ronnie's. Despite his super-human, almost impossible hardness and dryness, Dorian's muscles always appeared somewhat flat. All things considered, Dorian is the better bodybuilder, because he could present a 270+ lbs package, without looking like a weird collection of bodyparts.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

GigantorX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
  • GetBig's A-Team is the Light of Truth!
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2006, 09:12:44 PM »
  Sorry to burst your bubble 240, but the "Ronnie vs Arnold" threads have already seen the light of day. And I believe it was a draw.

Danny

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4630
  • The original Superman
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2006, 09:34:02 PM »


I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.


Too much time on their hands.... ;D ;D ;D Somebody's taking this board waaaaaay too seriously,... :o
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

MattT

  • Guest
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2006, 09:45:07 PM »
yes but we dont measure criteria on an individual basis in a bbing show....do we now??

if we did..kevin shoulda won
shawn shoulda won
cutler shoulda won



we take the sum of all parts the day of the contest and then meaasure who is greatest...visualy..

and the sum of all parts (ayt least in my view) sides towards density...

otherwise dillett shoulda won a few times also...


Dorian beat Flex..Shawn..Kevin..Nass er at his prime..
who the f**k has ronnie beaten?  cutler?? lmao..dont make me laugh man..cutler < mid 90s bbers...

What are you talking about so did Ronnie ::) He beat all of those guys to several times! Why do u just bring up cutler ??? You know he has beaten shawn, kevin, flex, nasser, jay, dillet... The list goes on and on.. Even dorian himself said Ronnie beats him.. Ok the man said Ronnie beats him!!, this thread should not even have been made..


Mussolini

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • riding shotgun on the team Nasser War wagon
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2006, 09:48:30 PM »
I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.



Well your argument is open ended and subjective,  Dorian beating Ronnie is implicit and Fact
shotgun on the team

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2006, 09:59:58 PM »
Well your argument is open ended and subjective,  Dorian beating Ronnie is implicit and Fact

  That's the Mussolini I know:brutal and to the point! 8)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

fathead

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2011
  • Getbig!
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2006, 10:23:56 PM »
It's 2 totally different physiques(apples and oranges). I'd pick Dorian.
front lat spread   DY            density  DY
side tricep      DY                 balance  DY
front double   RC                overall condition (dry graininess) DY
side chest   RC                    volume   RC
back lat spread  DY             shape/lines RC
Back double bi  RC              arms RC
ab and thigh   DY                calves DY
side quarter turns DY          abs  DY
front  relaxed  DY                chest RC
back relaxed  RC                 
If you break it down like this it very very close. 
I'd go as far as to say that the 1993 Dorian and 2003 Ronnie are the 2 best overall physiques ever.
Then Haney 1992, Ray 94, Levrone 94 and Flex 93 would round out my top 6.

Mussolini

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • riding shotgun on the team Nasser War wagon
Re: Dorian vs Ronnie! ....lets simplify the debate.. Volume vs Density!
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2006, 10:27:46 PM »
  That's the Mussolini I know:brutal and to the point! 8)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Hey bro how are things?

If I remember correctly you live in FLA??
shotgun on the team