What is it about Jesus?

[Hustle Man]

Have you ever notice or even find it strange that those who are not professing Christians are often very hostile towards Christians and even toward the church but you almost never hear them say unkind things about Jesus?

They are not willing to affirm his deity or that he is the savior of the world but they will say he was a great prophet or a great teacher or even a great man.

They are often very kind in their assessment of Jesus that it makes me wonder what it was about him that infuriated so many?

Can anyone help me out here; in particular the non-believers?

[calmus]

Infuriated with Christians or infuriated with jesus? Your post is not clear.

[Hustle Man]

Infuriated with Christians or infuriated with jesus? Your post is not clear.

What it was about Jesus that infuriates so many non-Christians?

[calmus]

I'm not infuriated by jesus at all, but I have no use for a lot of christians.

[boonasty]

people dont want to think they are bad enough to need someone to save them  if hes not a savior they can feel better about themselves

[Hustle Man]

people dont want to think they are bad enough to need someone to save them  if hes not a savior they can feel better about themselves

Fair answer.

[Deicide]

Have you ever notice or even find it strange that those who are not professing Christians are often very hostile towards Christians and even toward the church but you almost never hear them say unkind things about Jesus?

They are not willing to affirm his deity or that he is the savior of the world but they will say he was a great prophet or a great teacher or even a great man.

They are often very kind in their assessment of Jesus that it makes me wonder what it was about him that infuriated so many?

Can anyone help me out here; in particular the non-believers?

I won't even affirm that Jesus ever existed as a human being. After studying the evidence, the total lack of contemporaneous evidence, the fictional Gospels, the fact that most are reworked versions of Mark, the manner in which Paul speaks of Christ Jesus, I see no good reason to believe he ever lived at all. It is possible but unlikely and in any event the 'historical' Jesus is forever lost to us so that all we have is the bumper sticker version that fundies create or the historical creation that scholars sculpt from their own personalities and ambitions.

As far as his goodness is concerned; a loon who tells you to throw away all your possessions and abandon all your family and friends to follow him and tells you will burn in hell for not following him, well, whoever wrote his script painted a mixed picture of the alleged Jesus of Nazareth.

[Hustle Man]

I won't even affirm that Jesus ever existed as a human being. After studying the evidence, the total lack of contemporaneous evidence, the fictional Gospels, the fact that most are reworked versions of Mark, the manner in which Paul speaks of Christ Jesus, I see no good reason to believe he ever lived at all. It is possible but unlikely and in any event the 'historical' Jesus is forever lost to us so that all we have is the bumper sticker version that fundies create or the historical creation that scholars sculpt from their own personalities and ambitions.

As far as his goodness is concerned; a loon who tells you to throw away all your possessions and abandon all your family and friends to follow him and tells you will burn in hell for not following him, well, whoever wrote his script painted a mixed picture of the alleged Jesus of Nazareth.

Typical but interesting response, thx for your input!

[Deicide]

Typical but interesting response, thx for your input!

Typical? for whom? For Deicide?

[OzmO]

I think the hostility comes from the condescending attitude some share.

Not that anyone here has that.


And the fact, it reads like a grown up fairy tale/brain washing book that preys on human weakness.

Other then that it's Godly.

[Butterbean]

As far as his goodness is concerned; a loon who tells you to throw away all your possessions and abandon all your family and friends to follow him and tells you will burn in hell for not following him, well, whoever wrote his script painted a mixed picture of the alleged Jesus of Nazareth.

Who did He tell this to?

[Deicide]

Who did He tell this to?

To everyone who does not 'follow' him...

Whole cities as in the case of Matthew:

11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 

11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 

11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee

Mark and more on hellfire:

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.--Mark 9:47-48

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke with John the Baptist speaking...

3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

John:

3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 

15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

No, not until Gentle Jebus, meek and mild, does the doctrine of hellfire come into play...if he existed, he sure was a loony guy...

[Hustle Man]

Typical? for whom? For Deicide?

For non-believers, is that you?

[Butterbean]

To everyone who does not 'follow' him...

Whole cities as in the case of Matthew:

11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 

11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 

11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee

Mark and more on hellfire:

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.--Mark 9:47-48

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke with John the Baptist speaking...

3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

John:

3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 

15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

No I was talking about this:

and tells you will burn in hell for not following him,

Who did He tell this to?   Or did you mean believing in him?

No, not until Gentle Jebus, meek and mild, does the doctrine of hellfire come into play...if he existed, he sure was a loony guy...

Are you talking about Jerusalem?

[loco]

No, not until Gentle Jebus, meek and mild, does the doctrine of hellfire come into play.

Deicide, you got that from Hitchens, didn't you?  Well, it isn't true.

Hell in the Old Testament:

Daniel 12:2
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. "

Isaiah 66:24
"And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Isaiah 33:10-14
"Now I will rise," says the LORD;
"Now I will be exalted,
Now I will lift Myself up.
11 You shall conceive chaff,
You shall bring forth stubble;
Your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be like the burnings of lime;
Likethorns cut up they shall be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, you who are afar off, what I have done;
And you who are near, acknowledge My might.”
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
"Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Isaiah 1:31
"The strong shall be as tinder,
And the work of it as a spark;
Both will burn together,
And no one shall quench them."

Psalm 21:8- 9
"Your hand will find all Your enemies;
Your right hand will find those who hate You.
9 You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger;
The LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath,
And the fire shall devour them.

Jeremiah 7:20
"Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, My anger and My fury will be poured out on this place—on man and on beast, on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground. And it will burn and not be quenched."

[Deicide]

Deicide, you got that from Hitchens, didn't you?  Well, it isn't true.

Hell in the Old Testament:

Daniel 12:2
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. "

Isaiah 66:24
"And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Isaiah 33:10-14
"Now I will rise," says the LORD;
"Now I will be exalted,
Now I will lift Myself up.
11 You shall conceive chaff,
You shall bring forth stubble;
Your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be like the burnings of lime;
Likethorns cut up they shall be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, you who are afar off, what I have done;
And you who are near, acknowledge My might.”
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
"Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Isaiah 1:31
"The strong shall be as tinder,
And the work of it as a spark;
Both will burn together,
And no one shall quench them."

Psalm 21:8- 9
"Your hand will find all Your enemies;
Your right hand will find those who hate You.
9 You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger;
The LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath,
And the fire shall devour them.

Jeremiah 7:20
"Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, My anger and My fury will be poured out on this place—on man and on beast, on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground. And it will burn and not be quenched."

Perhaps inspired by Hitchens and you misread what I meant; hellfire was never offiical doctrine until the cult of Christianity came about; it was never emphasized in Judaism. Proverbs talks a lot about being dead and death being tantamount to oblivion. No, the hellfire doctrine is really a Christian thing.

[Parker]

What it was about Jesus that infuriates so many non-Christians?

What I don't like is how they try to paint Jesus as some doe eyed, limp-wristed Lovey-dovey type of dude, who wouldn't step on a bug, nor got in trouble. Basically, he was human but devoid of making Any human mistakes. And that right there is impossible. Jesus had what, 7 brothers and sisters, and I know he probably got mad them or got spankings for doing something bad.

[loco]

Perhaps inspired by Hitchens and you misread what I meant; hellfire was never offiical doctrine until the cult of Christianity came about; it was never emphasized in Judaism. Proverbs talks a lot about being dead and death being tantamount to oblivion. No, the hellfire doctrine is really a Christian thing.

What do you mean by "official doctrine"?  Who makes it official?  I just showed you that eternal fire is in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.  So Jesus was not introducing something new here as far as that goes.

Care to quote Proverbs for us, please?

[Deicide]

What do you mean by "official doctrine"?  Who makes it official?  I just showed you that eternal fire is in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.  So Jesus was not introducing something new here as far as that goes.

Care to quote Proverbs for us, please?

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they have any more portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
-Ecclesiastes 9: 5-6 (KJV)

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
-Ecclesiastes 9:10 (KJV)

Sounds like oblivion to me. But don't worry your holy book of holes is a muck of contradictions anyway...

[Hustle Man]

What I don't like is how they try to paint Jesus as some doe eyed, limp-wristed Lovey-dovey type of dude, who wouldn't step on a bug, nor got in trouble. Basically, he was human but devoid of making Any human mistakes. And that right there is impossible. Jesus had what, 7 brothers and sisters, and I know he probably got mad them or got spankings for doing something bad.

I don't think he was portrayed this way (doe eyed, limp-wristed Lovey-dovey type of dude) at all in the Bible! He stood for righteousness and fought against legalism on several occasions. Remember when he cleansed the temple, he was very angry or when he rebuked the Pharisees?

Who is it that you are saying painted him

as some doe eyed, limp-wristed Lovey-dovey type of dude, who wouldn't step on a bug...?

HMIC

[loco]

I don't think he was portrayed this way (doe eyed, limp-wristed Lovey-dovey type of dude) at all in the Bible! He stood for righteousness and fought against legalism on several occasions. Remember when he cleased the temple, he was very angry or when he rebuked the Pharisees?

And Jesus bravely walked into Jerusalem fully knowing that they were going to arrest him, torture him and then kill him.  Jesus was strong enough to take a beating from the Roman soldiers and then carry his own cross.

Oh, and don't forget that Jesus was brave to stand up to that big Roman general after giving water to Charlton Heston in Ben-Hur...just joking.     

[Hustle Man]

Awesome God Lyrics: Michael W. Smith

Everybody sing!

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just puttin' on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God

REFRAIN
Our God(our God) is an awesome God
He reigns(He reigns) from heaven above
With wisdom(with wisdom) pow'r and love
our God is an awesome God

And when the sky was starless in the void of the night
(our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness and created the light
(our God is an awesome God)
Judgment and wrath he poured out on to Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God

Hallelujah and AMEN!

HMIC

[Deicide]

Awesome God Lyrics: Michael W. Smith

Everybody sing!

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just puttin' on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God

REFRAIN
Our God(our God) is an awesome God
He reigns(He reigns) from heaven above
With wisdom(with wisdom) pow'r and love
our God is an awesome God

And when the sky was starless in the void of the night
(our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness and created the light
(our God is an awesome God)
Judgment and wrath he poured out on to Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God

Hallelujah and AMEN!

HMIC

"If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve their own interests."

[Tre]

Have you ever notice or even find it strange that those who are not professing Christians are often very hostile towards Christians and even toward the church but you almost never hear them say unkind things about Jesus?

They are not willing to affirm his deity or that he is the savior of the world but they will say he was a great prophet or a great teacher or even a great man.

They are often very kind in their assessment of Jesus that it makes me wonder what it was about him that infuriated so many?

Can anyone help me out here; in particular the non-believers?

They were furious that this great teacher was black.

[Hustle Man]

They were furious that this great teacher was black.

No doubt he lived in a region where his skin could have been dark but I don't think Jesus was black as we count blackness today.

I think one reason was because he was not a tall man or good looking fellow like the Jews may have wanted as a deliverer.