Author Topic: Oldtimer1  (Read 461655 times)

IroNat

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2350 on: May 06, 2024, 07:36:51 AM »
I think the occasional women I see running there are foolish.  Picture is the actual trail. Goes on for many miles. Use to be  old railroad tracks that the county removed and put down cinder.   

Agreed.  Not smart.

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2351 on: May 09, 2024, 01:28:15 PM »
Still working out but mainly running. Lost two pounds the last two weeks. Just tired of the training logs. I'm on track to running 25 miles this week. Feeling little weak but the distance running is slowly improving. I have seen my heart rate go down almost every run but my times are slightly improving. I will pick up lifting next week.

I come up with a lot of ideas about lifting routines that never pan out but I have to see if it suits me. Trying to be a hybrid athlete for a 5K I want to run in July. I know right now I can win my age bracket in this little small town 5K but I want to run well and not well for a 65 year old. That's going to take plenty of work.

My idea for a hybrid training protocol is to emphasize the running but trying to find a way to keep my hand in lifting. I went way back in the training notebooks. Going to use my Yates inspired weight workouts of one set to failure per exercise.  The twist is I'm going to use lighter weights but still go to failure. Going back maybe 2 decades when I was doing the serious hybrid thing used very light weights so failure happened from say 12 reps to 20 plus reps. Then every week I increased the poundage and naturally the reps to failure go lower. Hopefully at race time my reps to failure will be in the something like 8-12 reps range. Even using light weights but going to failure at high reps still can lead to burn out. I remember back then it worked fantastic when after a month or so I started using heavy weights. My strength for me was high.

Donny

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2352 on: May 10, 2024, 07:26:25 AM »
Still working out but mainly running. Lost two pounds the last two weeks. Just tired of the training logs. I'm on track to running 25 miles this week. Feeling little weak but the distance running is slowly improving. I have seen my heart rate go down almost every run but my times are slightly improving. I will pick up lifting next week.

I come up with a lot of ideas about lifting routines that never pan out but I have to see if it suits me. Trying to be a hybrid athlete for a 5K I want to run in July. I know right now I can win my age bracket in this little small town 5K but I want to run well and not well for a 65 year old. That's going to take plenty of work.

My idea for a hybrid training protocol is to emphasize the running but trying to find a way to keep my hand in lifting. I went way back in the training notebooks. Going to use my Yates inspired weight workouts of one set to failure per exercise.  The twist is I'm going to use lighter weights but still go to failure. Going back maybe 2 decades when I was doing the serious hybrid thing used very light weights so failure happened from say 12 reps to 20 plus reps. Then every week I increased the poundage and naturally the reps to failure go lower. Hopefully at race time my reps to failure will be in the something like 8-12 reps range. Even using light weights but going to failure at high reps still can lead to burn out. I remember back then it worked fantastic when after a month or so I started using heavy weights. My strength for me was high.
I remember years back a guy who was a Sgt in the PTI Corps said to me keep it simple. I now understand this years later

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2353 on: May 10, 2024, 07:32:46 AM »
I remember years back a guy who was a Sgt in the PTI Corps said to me keep it simple. I now understand this years later

I enjoy all the options I have in my home gym and in commercial gyms. Truth be told if you want to be a strong athlete all you need is a barbell and squat stands.

Donny

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2354 on: May 10, 2024, 07:59:44 AM »
I enjoy all the options I have in my home gym and in commercial gyms. Truth be told if you want to be a strong athlete all you need is a barbell and squat stands.
I worked in Gyms as a trainer & honestly all i did was use the cross trainer for cardio. Serious cardio i did (at the time was running outside).
The Leg press was useful but not as effective as Squats in my home gym.
I saw pussy boys doing endless sets of tricep pushdowns but never parallel bar dips.

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2355 on: May 11, 2024, 02:54:46 PM »
I worked in Gyms as a trainer & honestly all i did was use the cross trainer for cardio. Serious cardio i did (at the time was running outside).
The Leg press was useful but not as effective as Squats in my home gym.
I saw pussy boys doing endless sets of tricep pushdowns but never parallel bar dips.

I have seen great athletes that only use bodyweight exercises. Look at something like Navy Seal, Force Recon, Green Beret and Rangers. They go through training with bodyweight training. Gymnast are another example. I am not a bodybuilder.  I just like to train no matter what methodology I use. 

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2356 on: May 12, 2024, 04:26:57 AM »
I have seen great athletes that only use bodyweight exercises. Look at something like Navy Seal, Force Recon, Green Beret and Rangers. They go through training with bodyweight training. Gymnast are another example. I am not a bodybuilder.  I just like to train no matter what methodology I use.

yes that seems to be a thing with these Guys. Big upper arms ..etc.  seem to do a lot of Dips, pull-ups. posted before but the Videos get you motivated  ;D



oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2357 on: May 13, 2024, 07:38:56 AM »
     I will get back to logging soon. I am training hard. Reading a book on training for running. I know what you are probably thinking. I'm a lifter on a lifting site, fuck running. Bear with me. His thoughts on training ring true for me in both lifting and running.

The book is Personal Best Running by Mark Coogan. He was an elite runner in college but the big time titles eluded him. He said in training he left it all out on the track every training day. He rated his workouts as A Plus. He and several members of the team sometimes left personal bests on a training day.  Come race day he ran well but many times not as good as some of his training days. As he tried to make Olympic teams and get a spot on the national cross country teams but it always eluded him.

I can relate since I came from a track back ground in high school and college. I was proud of my work ethic. I grew up with Rocky and Arthur Jones. Want to be the best you have to out work everyone I thought. That's also in my immigrant DNA.  I remember another runner who I thought dogged his workouts. He rarely trained hard while I left it all out there everyday. Come race day he was always faster.  I thought he was just more blessed with innate talent. Probably true but he wasn't entering a race completely depleted either.

Back to the author of the book. After college he ran with an elite post college running group composed of top shelf Olympians and other elite runners. One thing shocked him. The training runs weren't balls to the wall. He thought what the hell is going on?  They ran hard but never to the limit. He was discouraged training with this group. Then came races and he started breaking personal records beating some members of a who's who in racing.

Not to put words in his mouth but he said something to the effect that consistent B plus workouts with an occasional A plus will beat a version of yourself that does nothing but A plus workouts.

Having workout growing up with Mike Mentzer, Arthur Jones, Casey Viator and all the rest of the HIT guys I was proud of my work ethic of balls to the wall workouts. Many decades of using heavy weights back then. During those decades I still ran on the occasion but it always was a secondary thought. I couldn't do a consistent running routine. I was too exhausted from lifting. Lifting was my priority.

Now I feel I wasted my talent for being a good runner trying to be a good lifter through the years. Now I'm 65 and wonder if I could ever get back to decent running? I feel running does more for your health than lifting but that's a topic for another day. The best thing to lesson the risk of ill healthy is probably a combination of the two.

My goals are changing.  I want to be a hybrid athlete that has a good cardio gas tank and lift at the same time. How can I achieve that?  I'm going to have to use lighter weights and avoid going to failure on most of my sets. Exhaust the muscle through volume, short rests between sets and more strict rep performance. Best laid plans often fail but that's what I want to do.  Again I spoke to Bill Pearl about this topic and he said, "You're a smart man.", lol.   

Today I started a high intensity workout after a week of daily hard 5 mile runs.  After the third exercise going red in the face feeling faint going to failure I started to think this isn't sustainable if I continue running like I am. No way could I run a hard 5 mile plus then go to exhaustion on every weight exercise.  On my third exercise of failure I was leaning on a wall breathing like a race horse thinking about what kind of hell did I put myself in?  What if instead of doing say one set to failure of seated cable rows I did four sets of cable rows fast where the first three are stopped at say ten reps and the fourth is a failure at 9 reps might be a better route.  The fix for me might me as simple as using my two sets per exercise at a lighter weight not going to failure.

These are my thoughts for this Monday. Hopefully soon I will start logging again.

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2358 on: May 13, 2024, 04:57:28 PM »
Good post OT!  :)

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2359 on: May 14, 2024, 09:33:15 AM »
Ran 5:04 miles on a cinder trail by my house. I burned about 711 calories not counting the quarter mile warm up. Max heart rate was 167. 

Still typing and typing various workouts on my Word processor.  It helps me visualize what the work out will be like if I type it out. Sometimes I plan workouts that are too over my head and I think as I'm working out, what was I thinking? I think it's good to be a little instinctive when you work out instead of sticking to a script. We all have up and down days. I know someone like Yates says he plots it out in his head then recorded it afterward.  Draper said he couldn't be rigid following a scripted workout. I think I'm a little too analytical for my own good.  Some very good world champs don't even know what they are going to do till they get to the gym. Then again you have guys that never deviate. 

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2360 on: May 16, 2024, 11:18:40 AM »
Alright, back to the iron. Chest and biceps day. One set to failure after warm up if necessary. Feeling weak from all the running I have been doing for three weeks. I'm getting less reps but trying to use a good weight. I think it will take me three weeks to get back my strength.

Dumbbell flat bench 1 x 8
Incline dumbbell bench 1 x 8
Flat flies 1 x 12
Push ups 1 x max

EZ curls 1 x 12
Alternate dumbbell curls 1 x 8 each arm
Dumbbell drag curls 1 x 11
Concentration curl 1 x 10

Wrist curl 1 x 25
Wrist extension 1 x 20

Incline sit up 1 x 22
Incline leg raise 1 x 14

Ivanko gripper 2 x 20

Felt good to be back in the weight room. Going for distance runs feel great for mood elevation, health and gas tank but too much is a strength killer.   

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2361 on: May 17, 2024, 02:56:36 AM »
Alright, back to the iron. Chest and biceps day. One set to failure after warm up if necessary. Feeling weak from all the running I have been doing for three weeks. I'm getting less reps but trying to use a good weight. I think it will take me three weeks to get back my strength.

Dumbbell flat bench 1 x 8
Incline dumbbell bench 1 x 8
Flat flies 1 x 12
Push ups 1 x max

EZ curls 1 x 12
Alternate dumbbell curls 1 x 8 each arm
Dumbbell drag curls 1 x 11
Concentration curl 1 x 10

Wrist curl 1 x 25
Wrist extension 1 x 20

Incline sit up 1 x 22
Incline leg raise 1 x 14

Ivanko gripper 2 x 20

Felt good to be back in the weight room. Going for distance runs feel great for mood elevation, health and gas tank but too much is a strength killer.
I get the low set thing but i won´t go under 2 sets, max 3 if motivated or just using say 2 exercises for a muscle group.
I mean you´re doing 4 sets for chest with different exercise  probably is enough if going to failure

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2362 on: May 17, 2024, 05:49:43 AM »
I get the low set thing but I won´t go under 2 sets, max 3 if motivated or just using say 2 exercises for a muscle group.
I mean you´re doing 4 sets for chest with different exercise  probably is enough if going to failure

It suits my personality.  I hit it hard to exhaustion and the workout took something like 40 minutes. When I try volume it just feels weird stopping when I could get more reps. I know some volume guys doing something like this to exhaustion.  First set might be 25 reps to exhaustion. Second set to exhaustion taps out at 18 reps. Third set to exhaustion taps out at 13 reps. Last set is 8 reps to failure.

The traditional volume is doing something like 4x10. First set is 10 reps but could have gotten 15. Second set is 10 reps but could have gotten 13 reps. Third set is 10 reps but could have gotten 11 reps. Forth is failure at 8 reps.

Some volume guys do this to increase the intensity by using short rests between sets to rush the failure point.

Try it sometime.  Say for barbell curls. Do a non taxing warm up set. The key is non taxing.  Then load the bar up and do reps till you are blue in the face and if someone offered you a million you couldn't get an extra rep.  No way could you want to do another set nor could you with the same amount of reps. Truth be told multiple set might be a more optimal way to train but if you could get 95% out of training with that one jagged set and you're not a pro bodybuilder why wouldn't the majority do it? One reason is it's too hard to train that way.

Donny

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2363 on: May 17, 2024, 07:29:48 AM »
It suits my personality.  I hit it hard to exhaustion and the workout took something like 40 minutes. When I try volume it just feels weird stopping when I could get more reps. I know some volume guys doing something like this to exhaustion.  First set might be 25 reps to exhaustion. Second set to exhaustion taps out at 18 reps. Third set to exhaustion taps out at 13 reps. Last set is 8 reps to failure.

The traditional volume is doing something like 4x10. First set is 10 reps but could have gotten 15. Second set is 10 reps but could have gotten 13 reps. Third set is 10 reps but could have gotten 11 reps. Forth is failure at 8 reps.

Some volume guys do this to increase the intensity by using short rests between sets to rush the failure point.

Try it sometime.  Say for barbell curls. Do a non taxing warm up set. The key is non taxing.  Then load the bar up and do reps till you are blue in the face and if someone offered you a million you couldn't get an extra rep.  No way could you want to do another set nor could you with the same amount of reps. Truth be told multiple set might be a more optimal way to train but if you could get 95% out of training with that one jagged set and you're not a pro bodybuilder why wouldn't the majority do it? One reason is it's too hard to train that way.
I do like rest-pause reps infact people do them on say squats without realising it.
Standing EZ curls are great.
I honestly think different muscle groups needs their own stimulus and principles.
some muscles need reps, some less.
Rest-pause is painful & extends a set past failure :)

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2364 on: May 17, 2024, 08:12:09 AM »
Leg day:  It was tough doing it after having  three weeks off of lifting. I did less reps or less weight. I didn't push to absolute failure in some cases. It's a break in week. The three weeks did me good though for injuries to heal. I used non taxing warm up sets as needed. Reps are approximate.

Leg press 1x12
Machine squats 1 x 8
stiff deads 1x 8
kick back glute machine 1 x 12
leg extensions 1 x 20
seated leg curl 1 x 15

hanging straight leg raises 1 x 20
Hip ups 1 x 30 (On back with feet toward ceiling. Push up like you're trying to push the bottom of your feet toward the ceiling.)

Standing calf 1 x 20
Leg press calf 1 x 20
Seated calf 1 X 20
tibialis 1 x 20

Four way neck 1 x 30 a side.



oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2365 on: May 18, 2024, 09:40:18 AM »
Ran 5.17 miles then 5 x 110 yard strides (semi sprints).  Legs were a little shot from yesterday's leg day. Disappointed with the time but a slow five mile is better than sitting on the couch with a gut.   Tomorrow is back.

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2366 on: May 19, 2024, 02:40:52 PM »
Trained back one set to failure after a non taxing warm up if needed. Still not clicking on all cylinders for lifting so I would say I'm coming close to failure but not quite. Calling this a break in week. Reps can be approximate because it's from memory.

Medium grip pulldowns with a M.A.G. bar 1 x 11
Seated lat cable rows with a V shape handle 1x13
One arm dumbbell row with knee and hand on bench 1 x 11
Narrow grip pulldown with a supinate M.A.G. bar 1 x 11

Dead lift 1 x 4  ( I was hoping to get 6  reps but I felt a little weak  tapping out at 4 reps)
Weighted low back hyper extensions 1 x 17 (great pump in the lower back)

Ab wheel roll out 1x23
Ab pulley crunch 1 x 50

I hope next week I can handle close to my usual weights and reps. Running like mad for three weeks made me a little weak with the weights. Still a great workout.

Tomorrow is delt and triceps. It's going to be sunny and warm so a short three mile run is on the menu.  Trying to be hybrid athlete that uses weights and runs is tough.

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2367 on: May 20, 2024, 08:03:51 AM »
Stiff as a board today.  I don't get sore so much as stiff where it hurts to bend over to pick up stuff like a bench or dumbbells on the floor.

Delt and triceps day: One set to failure. Since it's a break in week some sets weren't to failure but close. Reps are approximate. Warm ups as needed.

Military press 1 x 7  (hoping for 8 but got 7.  Next week. Still considering this a break in week so I'm not beating myself up.)

Dumbbell lateral raise 1 x 20    (Yes, the reps are high to failure. I will up the weight soon to bring those reps down. High reps do have value. Especially when you haven't weight trained in a couple of weeks)

Rear dumbbell laterals 1 x 15

Single arm pulley delt laterals 1 x 8

Face pulls 1 x 20

V tri pulley push downs 1 x 20

Skull crushers 1 x 12  (These kill my elbows. I use to bring the bar down to my face. Now I go down behind my head and felt no pain. The tweak in form made all the difference.)

Single arm behind the head dumbbell tricep extension 1 x 15

Dips 1 x 15 ( I always try to go deep with these)

Weighted crunches 1 x 60
Pulley abs 1 x 60
Romans partial situp 1 x 35 ( It's more of a rocking motion. I go to where it hurts the most and I rock there)

Ended with some rehab shoulder work. 

Ran two miles after with six 110 yard strides after.


oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2368 on: May 21, 2024, 11:38:15 AM »
No lifting day. Ran 5:04 miles. In the 80's with pure sun. It was tough not being acclimated to the heat. The run hurt.  Hit heavy bag for a couple of rounds. Did some jumping for power.  Jump squats 3x6 15lbs dumbbells. Lunge jumps 3 x 6 10lbs. Pogo jumps 3 x 6, 10lbs.   After the run I had little spring for jumping but I did it anyway. Beginning to think the best explosive exercise is just to sprint but I will use the jumping to see how the benefits are.  I didn't get much air after that run in the heat but the jump squats felt good. Franco use to do them with dumbbells.

IroNat

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2369 on: May 22, 2024, 04:11:24 AM »
Impressive, OT.

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2370 on: May 22, 2024, 06:39:45 AM »
Impressive, OT.

Thanks, going to push it while feeling good.

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2371 on: May 22, 2024, 07:03:15 AM »
5-22-2024: Cardio day.  Ran 5.14 miles not including a quarter mile warm up.  After I did 6 sets of 110 meter strides.  Fast but not quite a true sprint. My Garmin watch says I burnt 712 calories on the 5 mile run.  Throw in the semi sprints and warm up, maybe 850 calories for exercising today.  Going to try to watch what I eat today.

I got a lot of yard work now in prep for the pool opening. Piles of pollen are all over the place I have to vacuum up. Wearing an N95 mask so it might limit the amount of that garbage I breathe. 

Tomorrow is back to my Yates inspired routine and it's chest day. I've been thinking. I have to stop the mentality of trying to get stronger all the time.  Chasing muscular endurance might be the goal now as I age. If we could get forever stronger we would start benching at 100lbs and after 40 decades we would be benching 1200lbs.  We know it doesn't work that way. At what point to we chase other goals? 

I've said it a million times but I don't do it regarding switching up my methodology. Maybe because in my mind it would be to accept defeat but fuck if we are lucky we will all get old. We all know the fat 70 year old that still deadlifts 600lbs.  More power to him in his concentration on the lift but maybe he should be pursuing cardiac health. It's like the bench and curl guys. Okay you have a good bench but you couldn't deadlift that weight.  Not trying to paint a negative picture but saying I want to be well rounded. A hybrid athlete is the best description. I would never call myself a bodybuilder.

Is it better for an older guy to warm up then do one set to failure till your blue in the face? Is it better to do four sets of an exercise ending three of those sets well before failure and on the fourth go for broke?  I see another popular method lately and is use by fantastic bodybuilder friend of mine who is a around 70.  I don't want to mention his name but you might know him.  He does all his reps to failure. His first set he takes a weight where he will fail at around 30 reps. With very little rest he picks up the weight to go again. This time he fails at say 19 reps. Another short rest for his final set he fails at say ten.  Three quick failure sets. It must be brutal.  I think Steve Holman named this Torx training. Just saying my current training of Yates style hitting that one set to failure after a warm up set is very hard on the mind and body. Burn out can come quick and unexpected. What's good about it is that the work outs are short. It also suits my personality of wanting to give it all that I have and then I'm done with the exercise. If you know you have one opportunity to hit that exercise you can go for broke grinding out those reps. 

oldtimer1

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2372 on: May 23, 2024, 06:34:50 AM »
It should be a lifting day for me. Taking an unplanned day off of training. My first work set in the weight room was a just fuck it moment.  I need an extra day off to come back stronger. Beginning to see with better clarity how to approach training in my mid 60's.  I believe using one set to failure per exercise while trying to be a good runner is the wrong approach.  If I didn't have such an involved running program it would be a correct choice for me. Since I'm prioritizing running or at least giving 50% of my training effort weekly something has to give. Going to use multiple sets when I come back with moderate weights. If I gave up running and just concentrated on lifting I bet I could still get my weights used up significantly but maybe it's time to work on for lack of a better term muscular endurance.

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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2373 on: May 25, 2024, 03:34:23 AM »
It should be a lifting day for me. Taking an unplanned day off of training. My first work set in the weight room was a just fuck it moment.  I need an extra day off to come back stronger. Beginning to see with better clarity how to approach training in my mid 60's.  I believe using one set to failure per exercise while trying to be a good runner is the wrong approach.  If I didn't have such an involved running program it would be a correct choice for me. Since I'm prioritizing running or at least giving 50% of my training effort weekly something has to give. Going to use multiple sets when I come back with moderate weights. If I gave up running and just concentrated on lifting I bet I could still get my weights used up significantly but maybe it's time to work on for lack of a better term muscular endurance.
why not do a Bob Gadja type routine & get muscle with great heart training.

P.H.A




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Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #2374 on: May 28, 2024, 03:25:05 AM »
Still training hard but neglecting the training log. I'm training for local charity type 5K so my concentration on that is taking precedent over lifting right now. The race is in mid July. My goal in this race is to win my age group. Getting better at running has been slow going. Maybe because of health and age my progress has been at a snail's pace but it is going in a positive direction. My cancer levels for blood cancer are low and stabilized for now. My oncologist that had me going for blood tests every month and saw me every month. Last time I  saw him he said he would now see me every six months unless my levels rose or I got sick. I'm 168 and four pounds away from my goal weight.

Maybe I will log what I am doing. Just thought it maybe wouldn't be interesting to those that pursue bodybuilding but might be of small interest to guys that pursue fitness. I'm always interested in what the other guy is doing. It's going to be a sunny hot day. I think I will run 5 miles on the boardwalk. Might see some hotties in bikinis walking.