ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER vs. SERGIO OLIVA: Who was the best?

[pumpster]

That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.

No, that's way off, if anything thighs were Arnold's biggest weakness even in his greatest shape. What Arnold did everything possible for his lower body to compensate for the thigh size deficiency in both quads and hams. Great cuts, aesthetics and sweep coupled with great calves and posing that always presented them at the right angle. All those things helped to take the emphasis off the deficiency in overall thigh size.

Quad size was much better on Sergio, and in shape Sergio also had solid cuts there, along with very good calves and hamstrings. When in shape, Sergio's legs were just about perfect, virtually flawless. When in shape, Arnold's were pretty damn good but still somewhat flawed in terms of thigh size.

Therefore, at best even with the cuts Arnold's legs would've been a draw against Sergio. That was his intent i'm sure, to try to reduce Sergio's lower body advantage, which was significant.

[johnny1]

That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergio there in upper legs.

I think the best way to settle this is with a virtual bodybuilding contest. Arnold (1974) and Sergio (1972) being the only two competitors (when Zane, Nubret, and Ferrigno saw their competition, they ran for the hills.) Pics will decide who wins each round. We'll move onto the next round once we're all satisfied that enough angles have been covered.

Before we start, I want to see what your opinions are on using non-contest shots as a basis for comparison. I would rather keep it strictly to contest footage, as that's the truest form of comparing who would win in the shape they showed up at on contest day, but I'm open to suggestions. Once I get your opinions, we'll get this thing under way.

The issue with having only Competion photo's is for every great Sergio picture there's 6 of Arnold, and thus the advantage will swing Arnold's way as per usual, however using the non contest pics as well (within 1 yr ether way of their respective bests) will to a certain extent even the playing Field if not entirely at least to a acceptable level (as we all know theres hundreds and hundreds of good Arnold pics compared to 40-50 good Sergio pics) however you do decide to set it up I'm in.........SERGIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Humungous]

That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.

I dont think Arnie could destroy Maria in the upper leg department.

His calves were huge and he had nice separation and thigh rods but lacked the size Sergio had in legs.

[GoneAway]

Only two rules -

1. Can use any picture from 1975 and before
2. No photoshopping

Let battle commence!

[johnny1]

How about 1980 and 1981 as well?? ...alright 1975 on down will do.

[GoneAway]

Johnny, let's see Sergio match this side chest:

[johnny1]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm .....you know full well theres more than likely No one in History who can match that shot...even in my Collection of Sergio pictures i havn,t got one were he's RUBBING his hamstring up against the inside leg too bring the balance of top and bottom of the physique in line ...however given the differences in lighting (outside) the angle (less slope) the outside leg of Sergio not RUBBING up against the inside leg this common shot @ W/S park is not too bad @ all. (damn you Sergio you needed to learn how to pose!!)

[GoneAway]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm .....you know full well theres more than likely No one in History who can match that shot...even in my Collection of Sergio pictures i havn,t got one were he's RUBBING his hamstring up against the inside leg too bring the balance of top and bottom of the physique in line ...however given the differences in lighting (outside) the angle (less slope) the outside leg of Sergio not RUBBING up against the inside leg this common shot @ W/S park is not too bad @ all. (damn you Sergio you needed to learn how to pose!!)

LOL! Yes, one thing Arnold new how to do was pose. Sergio really wasn't that bad of a poser - and that is a great shot of him there. Johnny, where did you get the idea that Arnold is rubbing his hamstring up against his inner leg? Not saying you're wrong (or right), but it's something I hadn't heard before now.

[JasonH]

It's a damn close call between Arnold and Sergio - I can't decide. 

[johnny1]

LOL! Yes, one thing Arnold new how to do was pose. Sergio really wasn't that bad of a poser - and that is a great shot of him there. Johnny, where did you get the idea that Arnold is rubbing his hamstring up against his inner leg? Not saying you're wrong (or right), but it's something I hadn't heard before now.

9 times out of 10 when hitting side shots especially the SIDE chest shot Arnold rub's the outside leg hard up against the inside leg...its a trick nearly everyone of us thats stepped out on a BB stage knows about, if yr hamstrings are a little suspect, with Arnold when hitting the side chest you will see (nearly every time) the outside leg is always just in front of the inside leg, try doing that without losing balance- if your NOT rubbing your outside leg against the inside...doesn,t work does it?...with Sergio he obviously didn,t catch on to that little trick(or just didn,t give a damn) because in most of his shots you will see his INSIDE leg in front of his outside leg...so theres no way hes trying to rub his hamstring on the inside leg...in fact bye the leg position he has in the side chest hes actually STRECHING his hamstring apart giving the impression he has Smaller hamstrings than he actually had as Ive said many times Arnold was a very smart man for a number of reasons and in posing and presentation he was WAY ahead of the game in the somewhat more less informed generation of BBers (1960s-70s) compared to what we have now.

In the below picture (i know its 1975 however he was still in very good condition) you can see clearly a rare picture in terms of Arnold NOT rubbing the outside leg HARD up against the inside leg showing a more accurate picture (angle withstanding) of Arnold's some what sub-par Hamstrings compared to his Massive upper body.

[johnny1]

Bar the angle this common picture is the best example of the my last post. 

[johnny1]

One of my Favorites of the 2 on stage witch @ that time showed Arnold's uncertainty/caution standing next to Sergio, and Sergio confident and while smooth looked incredible his lines and balance in this common shot are Awesome.

[GoneAway]

9 times out of 10 when hitting side shots especially the SIDE chest shot Arnold rub's the outside leg hard up against the inside leg...its a trick nearly everyone of us thats stepped out on a BB stage knows about, if yr hamstrings are a little suspect, with Arnold when hitting the side chest you will see (nearly every time) the outside leg is always just in front of the inside leg, try doing that without losing balance- if your NOT rubbing your outside leg against the inside...doesn,t work does it?...with Sergio he obviously didn,t catch on to that little trick(or just didn,t give a damn) because in most of his shots you will see his INSIDE leg in front of his outside leg...so theres no way hes trying to rub his hamstring on the inside leg...in fact bye the leg position he has in the side chest hes actually STRECHING his hamstring apart giving the impression he has Smaller hamstrings than he actually had as Ive said many times Arnold was a very smart man for a number of reasons and in posing and presentation he was WAY ahead of the game in the somewhat more less informed generation of BBers (1960s-70s) compared to what we have now.

In the below picture (i know its 1975 however he was still in very good condition) you can see clearly a rare picture in terms of Arnold NOT rubbing the outside leg HARD up against the inside leg showing a more accurate picture (angle withstanding) of Arnold's some what sub-par Hamstrings compared to his Massive upper body.

I tried the side chest with my outside leg completely apart (e.g. not touching) my inside leg and was able to maintain perfect balance, so I'm not sure why you thought it would be impossible to do that. Either way, we both know a thing or two about the tricks used in posing, which will make this battle very interesting. One thing you may not know yet, is that the hamstrings look bigger when the upper leg is viewed from an angle slightly behind the body. The upper leg looks thicker because this angle shows more of the hamstrings. In a side pose, this equates to turning the knee more inward. Whether Arnold is actually pushing out the hamstrings is irrelavent, but the shot is taken from an angle slightly behind him, which shows more of the hamstrings. In the 1975 shot, it's taken from straight on, so even though his hamstrings aren't too bad there, they're not as thick as they could be, partly due to the angle.

[BSN]

1972 Mr.Olympia.. backstage

[johnny1]

I tried the side chest with my outside leg completely apart (e.g. not touching) my inside leg and was able to maintain perfect balance, so I'm not sure why you thought it would be impossible to do that. Either way, we both know a thing or two about the tricks used in posing, which will make this battle very interesting. One thing you may not know yet, is that the hamstrings look bigger when the upper leg is viewed from an angle slightly behind the body. The upper leg looks thicker because this angle shows more of the hamstrings. In a side pose, this equates to turning the knee more inward. Whether Arnold is actually pushing out the hamstrings is irrelavent, but the shot is taken from an angle slightly behind him, which shows more of the hamstrings. In the 1975 shot, it's taken from straight on, so even though his hamstrings aren't too bad there, they're not as thick as they could be, partly due to the angle.

Your right about when viewed from the side the upper thigh/hamstring looks bigger especially on the angle and as for the balance issue its now quiet obvious my upper body was WAY too big for my Legs ... i just tryed it now (for the first time in 10yrs) and low and behold in this drastically difference physique i now have...you have got a point...however Arnold pushing out the hamstring is very relevant when his hamstrings (even at his best were never in proportion with his upper quads)...from personal experience having weak (compared to my upperbody) hamstrings i use to push the hell out of what hamstring mass i had on stage take a guess where from pictures i learnt that one from @ the end of the day all these little xtras do have relevance especially @ Arnold's level back in the day when things are real tight with the likes of Sergio etc were around...SERGIO 1973!!!!!!!!!

[big L dawg]

That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.

I think the best way to settle this is with a virtual bodybuilding contest. Arnold (1974) and Sergio (1972) being the only two competitors (when Zane, Nubret, and Ferrigno saw their competition, they ran for the hills.) Pics will decide who wins each round. We'll move onto the next round once we're all satisfied that enough angles have been covered.

Before we start, I want to see what your opinions are on using non-contest shots as a basis for comparison. I would rather keep it strictly to contest footage, as that's the truest form of comparing who would win in the shape they showed up at on contest day, but I'm open to suggestions. Once I get your opinions, we'll get this thing under way.

no way arnold beats sergio in legs don't know what your lookin at.

[johnny1]

Arnold also had the little habit of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him, none of this is cheating of course just Arnold leaving no stone unturned, Sergio relied (it would seem) too much on his physique only and not all the pro's and con's of the PRESENTATION of the physique, speculation of course on my part but pictures seem to tell part of the story.

[pumpster]

Arnold also had the little habit of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him

All of this is cute but is quite immaterial IMO. Weider's shows were never impartial, the fix was in. Sergio could've out-posed Schwarzenegger and the results still would have been the same.

[GoneAway]

his hamstrings (even at his best were never in proportion with his upper quads

Even being a big Arnold fan, I do admit that they were not as proportionate as they could be. Most of the time, anyhow.

But since you said they were never in proportion, I have to disagree. Here are some great shots that show proportionate hammies and everything else looking pretty good, too!

[GoneAway]

Arnold also had the little habit of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him, none of this is cheating of course just Arnold leaving no stone unturned, Sergio relied (it would seem) too much on his physique only and not all the pro's and con's of the PRESENTATION of the physique, speculation of course on my part but pictures seem to tell part of the story.

When it came to posing, Arnold had alot of little habits. But that's why he's The King - he did whatever it took to improve his physique.

I agree about Sergio relying mostly on his physique. He knew how to hit certain poses extremely well, though. The front lat spread being a prime example.

[johnny1]

When it came to posing, Arnold had alot of little habits. But that's why he's The King - he did whatever it took to improve his physique.

I agree about Sergio relying mostly on his physique. He knew how to hit certain poses extremely well, though. The front lat spread being a prime example.

Hmmm...when i make references about Arnold obviously the way i word my posts are taken on board as a direct criticism of Arnold and his tactics...being straight up its not... Ive made references else where on other sites over the years about the same issues and most people have taken it as it was meant, nothing more than an observation and opinion, Arnold did do whatever was necessary at any cost to make sure he came out on top,(wether politics were a factor or not) as Ive said none of this is cheating just using his head, Ive also made the very valid point that there are hundreds and hundreds of Arnold pictures of him in great shape with perhaps 40-50 of Sergio in good shape... when all people have to go on is mainly pictures when comparing the 2 its really a moot point in Arnold's favour, so bloke's like me explain what i see in both their physiques....from a neutral point of view...because if i stuck to my SERGIO is better than Arnold pitch no matter what you or anyone else says...well it would be another truce thread that would never end no one wants to back down (for what ever stupid reason) and so the thread becomes personal with attacks on one other etc. (oh p.s... SERGIO > ARNOLD )

[pumpster]

Here are some great shots that show proportionate hammies and everything else looking pretty good, too!

I think that first shot only proves that both the quads and hams were in most cases so-so in terms of size relative to upper body. The only reason it looks ok there is the angle.

The second shot there's good quad size but no indication of hams that balance.

That second pic, when he weighed more confirms my earlier comment, that essentially his thighs looks better when he was at heavier weights. When he lost weight it came off the thighs first and foremost.

[johnny1]

Joe and Sergio in happier times

[GoneAway]

Hmmm...when i make references about Arnold obviously the way i word my posts are taken on board as a direct criticism of Arnold and his tactics...being straight up its not... Ive made references else where on other sites over the years about the same issues and most people have taken it as it was meant, nothing more than an observation and opinion, Arnold did do whatever was necessary at any cost to make sure he came out on top,(wether politics were a factor or not) as Ive said none of this is cheating just using his head, Ive also made the very valid point that there are hundreds and hundreds of Arnold pictures of him in great shape with perhaps 40-50 of Sergio in good shape... when all people have to go on is mainly pictures when comparing the 2 its really a moot point in Arnold's favour, so bloke's like me explain what i see in both their physiques....from a neutral point of view...because if i stuck to my SERGIO is better than Arnold pitch no matter what you or anyone else says...well it would be another truce thread that would never end no one wants to back down (for what ever stupid reason) and so the thread becomes personal with attacks on one other etc. (oh p.s... SERGIO > ARNOLD )

I take what you mean literally, because you said it in a literal sense. You said at his best, his hammies were never in proportion, so I had to disagree since I had proof to dispute that. If I agreed, that would be like saying Sergio had a better biceps peak than Arnold, or that Arnold had a smaller waist than Sergio - which is untrue.

Trust me, I'm trying to be as neutral as I can, too. Nothing in this thread has been a personal attack on you and I DON'T want this to be a truce thread! The reason I made this thread is to finally see which competitor had the best overall physique in (what I thought was) our neutral opinions. Maybe ARNIE1974 should come on board with some comparisons, since he's probably watching this thread.

If we agree that Arnold wins the side chest, then who wins the front double biceps?

[johnny1]

In that shot Arnold looks great probally one of his best FDB ever his legs look good as well.......Sergio in the picture below under the same studio lighting as Arnold would look out of this world...as it is he still looks unbelievable in the picture under NATURAL outside lighting not only size here but take a look @ the veins etc over SERGIOS quads etc....