THE TOTAL ABSOLUTE NO - BULLSHIT TRUTH ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS

[andreisdaman]

We spend a lot of time on here talking about and debating the effectiveness of supplements....I am guilty of this as well....but the truth is that these supplements are all worthless in the long run and are created to empty our wallets of as much hard-earned cash as possible...

the advertising that goes into convincing us to buy these worthless and useless supplements is incredible.....even the drug companies don't spend on ads like muscletech....but thats because of the theory that the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it since no one would DARE tell such a big lie and risk being found out???

Supplements work only because we "will" them to work....the supplement companies tell us "take this everyday before your work out and your workout will be fantastic and you will get big pumps and better gains"....then they tell us "take this also after your workout and you will get bigger and stronger"...

basically what they are doing is getting you and I to perform a ritual....by performing a ritual before completing an act or action, it increases the likelihood that you will actually carry through and perform the action...

for example, suicide bombers carry out rituals before their missions..they recite the Koran and shave their bodies and make a video tape to their love-ones to let them know what they are about to do and how they are entering the kingdom of god and all this other crap....the planners make them perform these rituals because once someone has performed the ritual they brainwash themselves into performing the act and the planners know that in this way, the bombers will ACTUALLY go ahead with the bombing instead of chickening out at the last minute.

Same thing with the supp companies...we perform the ritual of taking these products before and after the workout because in our minds we think they will help us (the advertising has already warmed us up and put us in this frame of mind) ..then we go to the gym and push ourselves really hard because we want the supplement to work....In other words...we ourselves take these supps because by taking the supp it increases the likelihood that you will go ahead and work out instead of blowing off the gym for that day....and it increases the likelihood that you will focus and push yourself really hard in the gym because PSYCHOLOGICALLY YOU WANT THE SUPPLEMENTS TO WORK SO THAT YOU DON"T LOOK LIKE AN A-HOLE FOR BEING STUPID ENOUGH TO BUY SUCH A BOGUS RIP-OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE!

so because you have invested so much time and money in getting the supps, you have to hypnotize yourself into making them work....by working out more and working out harder.....and thats where the gains come in..if you are working out more and not blowing off the gym as much and you are working out much harder instead of coasting as we tend to do sometimes, then of course you will be HARDER< THICKER< STRONGER<BIGGER....theres no secret to it...I have made better gains and gotten stronger ONCE I STOPPED TAKING CREATINE...

so instead of using the supplements to make us have a better workout and better gains, we use the work out, and the better gains which come from them, to make us have a better supplement....Just eat, drink water and workout consistently and effectively and you will get stronger, thicker, and bigger...we spend time talking about supps because it is fun....but thats all we are really getting out of it..

[coltrane]

We spend a lot of time on here talking about and debating the effectiveness of supplements....I am guilty of this as well....but the truth is that these supplements are all worthless in the long run and are created to empty our wallets of as much hard-earned cash as possible...

the advertising that goes into convincing us to buy these worthless and useless supplements is incredible.....even the drug companies don't spend on ads like muscletech....but thats because of the theory that the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it since no one would DARE tell such a big lie and risk being found out???

Supplements work only because we "will" them to work....the supplement companies tell us "take this everyday before your work out and your workout will be fantastic and you will get big pumps and better gains"....then they tell us "take this also after your workout and you will get bigger and stronger"...

basically what they are doing is getting you and I to perform a ritual....by performing a ritual before completing an act or action, it increases the likelihood that you will actually carry through and perform the action...

for example, suicide bombers carry out rituals before their missions..they recite the Koran and shave their bodies and make a video tape to their love-ones to let them know what they are about to do and how they are entering the kingdom of god and all this other crap....the planners make them perform these rituals because once someone has performed the ritual they brainwash themselves into performing the act and the planners know that in this way, the bombers will ACTUALLY go ahead with the bombing instead of chickening out at the last minute.

Same thing with the supp companies...we perform the ritual of taking these products before and after the workout because in our minds we think they will help us (the advertising has already warmed us up and put us in this frame of mind) ..then we go to the gym and push ourselves really hard because we want the supplement to work....In other words...we ourselves take these supps because by taking the supp it increases the likelihood that you will go ahead and work out instead of blowing off the gym for that day....and it increases the likelihood that you will focus and push yourself really hard in the gym because PSYCHOLOGICALLY YOU WANT THE SUPPLEMENTS TO WORK SO THAT YOU DON"T LOOK LIKE AN A-HOLE FOR BEING STUPID ENOUGH TO BUY SUCH A BOGUS RIP-OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE!

so because you have invested so much time and money in getting the supps, you have to hypnotize yourself into making them work....by working out more and working out harder.....and thats where the gains come in..if you are working out more and not blowing off the gym as much and you are working out much harder instead of coasting as we tend to do sometimes, then of course you will be HARDER< THICKER< STRONGER<BIGGER....theres no secret to it...I have made better gains and gotten stronger ONCE I STOPPED TAKING CREATINE...

so instead of using the supplements to make us have a better workout and better gains, we use the work out, and the better gains which come from them, to make us have a better supplement....Just eat, drink water and workout consistently and effectively and you will get stronger, thicker, and bigger...we spend time talking about supps because it is fun....but thats all we are really getting out of it..

I get the gist of your post, but many supplements do provide benefits to a bodybuilder.  To deny that whey/egg/casein protein doesn't fill a void is absurd.  Yes, a chicken breast is great, but a shot of whey can provide the same nutrients (yes, it's absorbed faster) but you know what i'm saying.  There are, i agree, many supplements that don't work and are bs.  Maybe 90% of supps are bs.  BUT, there are legit ones out there.

[andreisdaman]

supplements are great.

support the sport, buy supplements.

Bluto you are saying that we should just blindly support the sport by buying stuff that has no value whatsoever?...we support the sport by buying gym memberships, by exercising so that we can look good and by buying the BB mags...there is no need to buy junk to fill the pockets of guys who are trying their best to rip us off....the sport was doing well even when the only thing being advertised was Bob Atlas' workout program which depicted a skinny guy having sand kicked in his face...there was no supplement ads then except that ad and weider's disgusting protein powder junk that was god-awful....and bodybuilding survived

[andreisdaman]

I get the gist of your post, but many supplements do provide benefits to a bodybuilder.  To deny that whey/egg/casein protein doesn't fill a void is absurd.  Yes, a chicken breast is great, but a shot of whey can provide the same nutrients (yes, it's absorbed faster) but you know what i'm saying.  There are, i agree, many supplements that don't work and are bs.  Maybe 90% of supps are bs.  BUT, there are legit ones out there.

Okay, I'm willing to bend a little and say that protein powders have a place in terms of supplementation....howev er, again you don't REALLY need them..just eat hardy meals and you will be fine....if you drink enough milk and eat enough steak and chicken you will be fine.....and again, the supplement companies would have you believe that their protein powder is better...all protein basically comes from the same place.....it's not like the companies are whipping up their own protein formulas....Protein comes from milk or eggs..that's it..they are all the same....and most of it ends up in the shitter anyway......because our bodies will only absorb so much protein...a complete waste of money!!!!!

[brent2741]

i dont see the harm in spending money on preworkout supps like no-xplode, the only reason you take supps like that is to get a good workout, placebo or not if it gets the job done then i dont see the harm.

[andreisdaman]

Brent, it gets the job done but for the wrong reasons.....you could get the same workout for free if you just came to the realization that you are wasting money for performing a ritual that you could do on your own for free.....you want a nice preworkout supplement???...drink a nice cup of coffee with milk and sugar.....caffeine to get your heart going....sugar for energy....and some small protein from the milk.....and if you want, add a tall glass of water with another teaspoon of sugar (or dextrose if you prefer) and a banana....thats all you need and this will give you such a boost..you won't need NO Explode... at $40 a can no less.

[Soundness]

Have you studied the research on visualization + sports that the old Soviets did? What about the newer research from teh west?

I've studied some research on things like people practicing sports versus imagining practicing to find that imagining can be even more powerful than actually physically practicing in some cases. Also, in the brain the neurons fire as if you're actually doing the activity in the same exact way as if you were actually doing it. Much of what we imagine is almost "literal" to the brain and has similar affect as if it actually happened. Have you come across anything particularly interesting?

[The Master]

I've studied some research on things like people practicing sports versus imagining practicing to find that imagining can be even more powerful than actually physically practicing in some cases. Also, in the brain the neurons fire as if you're actually doing the activity in the same exact way as if you were actually doing it. Much of what we imagine is almost "literal" to the brain and has similar affect as if it actually happened. Have you come across anything particularly interesting?

What you just wrote practically summons up the main points of what Debussey has come across.

Debusseys experience = that visualization must be practiced daily in a systematized manner if it is to really aid focused long term goal achievement (and when done in this way, it can be extremely effective).

[Soundness]

What you just wrote practically summons up the main points of what Debussey has come across.

Debusseys experience = that visualization must be practiced daily in a systematized manner if it is to really aid focused long term goal achievement (and when done in this way, it can be extremely effective).

Certainly. I think people are completely confused about what's important in life.
We are not paying attention to ourselves but rather everything else...
That "mental movie screen" we constantly run through the imagination is more important than anything.

[brent2741]

Brent, it gets the job done but for the wrong reasons.....you could get the same workout for free if you just came to the realization that you are wasting money for performing a ritual that you could do on your own for free.....you want a nice preworkout supplement???...drink a nice cup of coffee with milk and sugar.....caffeine to get your heart going....sugar for energy....and some small protein from the milk.....and if you want, add a tall glass of water with another teaspoon of sugar (or dextrose if you prefer) and a banana....thats all you need and this will give you such a boost..you won't need NO Explode... at $40 a can no less.

your probably right but at 28$ per 40 servings, about 70 cents a workout i think i can afford the extra. I do agree as bodybuilders or whatever we are, we do get into rituals and they have a tremendous psychological difference.

[tbombz]

plenty of supplements will have good effects on your physique that you CAN NOT get from whole food.


whey concentrate/isolate/hydrosylate
bcaa's
l-leucine
caffiene
yohimbine
green tea extract
etc etc etc etc

[The Master]

Pure brilliance, Debussey. What types of memorization techniques have you used?

And yes, drinking piss is an extremely important part of both mental and physical progression. Without it, you are literally starving yourself of what you need to thrive. With it, you will thrive in every respect, adapt more quickly, promote mental and physical upgrade, etc....

Debussey has developed its own memorization and knowledge-integration system. Debussey's visual and episodic memory = a lot stronger than its auditory memorization ability, so Debussey has built a system around representing knowledge in visual and episodic terms that suits Debusseys memory best (this means not using the "association techniques" taught in normal mnemonic books as they are usually used).

Debussey first systematizes the knowledge to be memorized or really integrated (if applied to problem-situations, where the theoretical framework is to be applied to a task, the information must be overlearned so you don't have to consciously think to use it) in a very strict manner after one of several predefined "representation templates". Debussey then usually finds some visual representation of each defined "block" of knowledge, and this can for example be an abstract shape with a specific color (Debussey often uses color-coding in abstract structures to represent specific concepts or "configurations) that also does a repetitive movement (Debussey has a slight case of motion-synesthesia which makes visual figures with movement easy to remember due to the sound they produce), and perhaps a melody or specific sound (Debussey has a knack for remembering melodies).
After representing the information in a systematic sense via the visual and the auditory faculties as described above, Debussey has several "visual representation blocks" that are now visualized together several times in one or several ways. For example, Debussey can visualize a landscape where many different images/sounds as described above are organized together in some way. After a couple of visualizations, these "visualized landscapes" or similar visualizations (like "movies" in the mind with the image-representations as "actors") are basically remembered for years without much repetitions. Debussey has found that the more episodic, melody and motion stuff it incorporates, the longer and stronger the visualization sticks, due to the attributes of Debusseys brain already described.

Next is ensuring that the visualization will become integrated knowledge. Debussey will retell information contained in the images until an image naturally leads to a certain piece of information. This = a pretty easy job once a systematized method has been used for a long time. For example, the key of A (440) is easily heard as such on the piano, and the color blue immediately pops up (Debusseys color for A). For other concepts it can be an abstract image or an image of a person or something that just pops up once the information contained in it = thought of. It works the other way as well, the visual representation = seen, and the concept = recalled. (Which makes seeing the color blue fucking tiresome at times).

Once a proper association between the visual stimuli and the information it represents = there, Debussey usually does some integration work, like solving problems or doing exercises. Debussey focuses on using "pencil and paper" as little as possible, and instead doing the entire thing in the head. Usually, by this point, solving problems = pretty easy, since most people need exercises to INTEGRATE the principles that are not properly integrated into memory BEFORE starting on the exercise, thereby making the early exercise solving simply a memorization tool.

If doing things like playing a guitar, Debussey usually plays something while seeing an image or another representation of it. If practicing an inversion of an arpeggio on a guitar with a metronome, Debussey sees the appropriate representation of it in the mind, thereby strengthening the association between the represented theory and the motor-skill of playing.

This is just a basic overview of Debusseys way of doing it. The system = pretty detailed for different types of information and shit, and there = no point in regurgitating all of it here. It probably = useless for many other people, since it's tailored for Debusseys quirks and piss.

A small note about this way of doing it is that the recall of information seems to go incredibly fast, and the ability to scan information and get an overview of it (seeing huge detailed landscapes or abstract "worlds" or just a bunch of colors = pretty easy) = very easy. It sure beats pure root memorization, which = much slower, and without the same "staying power". At least for the retarded 52IQ brain of Debussey.

In simple terms: This way of doing it improves the possible quantity of memorization, and the quality of the memorization and subsequent remembering.

 

[Arnold Palmer]

%50 Placebo %50 Real Effect for the best supplements IMO.

most others %90 percent placebo effect IMO.

ANDREISDAMAN
I agree with you andreisdaman but there is still a slight effect to most of them but the net gain you notice cannot be attibuted to much more than placebo. Spend you $ how you wa't if you have it.

What about ZMA. Im interested to see what soundness and debussy have to say about ZMA. I have had some huge effects from it. Mostly incredible sleep and incredibly vivid dreams (can be very good or very bad lol) and when I wake up I feel like 100 bucks even if I didn't sleep more than 3-4 hrs it will feel like i was asleep for 8.

[wes]

Best supplement = food !

[powerpack]

i dont see the harm in spending money on preworkout supps like no-xplode, the only reason you take supps like that is to get a good workout, placebo or not if it gets the job done then i dont see the harm.

Agreed, not all sups are rip offs.
Pre work out boosters and post work out shakes work.

[Soundness]

%50 Placebo %50 Real Effect for the best supplements IMO.

most others %90 percent placebo effect IMO.

ANDREISDAMAN
I agree with you andreisdaman but there is still a slight effect to most of them but the net gain you notice cannot be attibuted to much more than placebo. Spend you $ how you wa't if you have it.

What about ZMA. Im interested to see what soundness and debussy have to say about ZMA. I have had some huge effects from it. Mostly incredible sleep and incredibly vivid dreams (can be very good or very bad lol) and when I wake up I feel like 100 bucks even if I didn't sleep more than 3-4 hrs it will feel like i was asleep for 8.

Effects of Zinc Magnesium Aspartate (ZMA) Supplementation on Training Adaptations and Markers of Anabolism and Catabolism.
http://pharmiamuscle.com/pdf/effects_zinc.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500945?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
"ABSTRACT : This study examined whether supplementing the diet with a commercial supplement containing zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) during training affects zinc and magnesium status, anabolic and catabolic hormone profiles, and/or training adaptations. Forty-two resistance trained males (27 +/- 9 yrs; 178 +/- 8 cm, 85 +/- 15 kg, 18.6 +/- 6% body fat) were matched according to fat free mass and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner either a dextrose placebo (P) or ZMA 30-60 minutes prior to going to sleep during 8-weeks of standardized resistance-training. Subjects completed testing sessions at 0, 4, and 8 weeks that included body composition assessment as determined by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry, 1-RM and muscular endurance tests on the bench and leg press, a Wingate anaerobic power test, and blood analysis to assess anabolic/catabolic status as well as markers of health. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA. Results indicated that ZMA supplementation non-significantly increased serum zinc levels by 11 - 17% (p = 0.12). However, no significant differences were observed between groups in anabolic or catabolic hormone status, body composition, 1-RM bench press and leg press, upper or lower body muscular endurance, or cycling anaerobic capacity. Results indicate that ZMA supplementation during training does not appear to enhance training adaptations in resistance trained populations."

Serum testosterone and urinary excretion of steroid hormone metabolites after administration of a high-dose zinc supplement.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17882141?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Objectives:To investigate whether the administration of the zinc-containing nutritional supplement ZMA causes an increase of serum testosterone levels, which is an often claimed effect in advertising for such products; to monitor the urinary excretion of testosterone and selected steroid hormone metabolites to detect potential changes in the excretion patterns of ZMA users.Subjects:Fourteen healthy, regularly exercising men aged 22-33 years with a baseline zinc intake between 11.9 and 23.2 mg day(-1) prior to the study.Results:Supplementation of ZMA significantly increased serum zinc (P=0.031) and urinary zinc excretion (P=0.035). Urinary pH (P=0.011) and urine flow (P=0.045) were also elevated in the subjects using ZMA. No significant changes in serum total and serum free testosterone were observed in response to ZMA use. Also, the urinary excretion pattern of testosterone metabolites was not significantly altered in ZMA users.Conclusions:The present data suggest that the use of ZMA has no significant effects regarding serum testosterone levels and the metabolism of testosterone in subjects who consume a zinc-sufficient diet.
-----------------------------

Now, Arnold Palmer, I'm not saying ZMA is bullshit. I'm glad you find it helpful, and the claims by Lorrie Brilla are encouraging. (Though the funding of the research raises skepticism.):

Brilla, L.R., and Haley, T.F., "Effect of Magnesium Supplementation on Strength Training in Humans," J Am Coll Nutr 11.3 (1992) : 326-9.

Brilla, L.R., and Conte, V., "Effects of Zinc-Magnesium (ZMA) Supplementation on Muscle Attributes of Football Players," Med Sci Sports Exer 31.5 (1999).
http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/BrillaV2.PDF

In the study above, Brilla reported that ZMA supplementation in Western Washington University football players resulted in a 30% increase in testosterone, an increase in IGF-1, and a 250% increase in strength gains compared to the group that took a placebo. There are also no major side effects reported from ZMA use. Miraculous, indeed.

Here's the problem: ARE THERE OTHER STUDIES, BESIDES BRILLA'S THAT CLAIM THIS? I couldn't find any, but please forward them to me if you do. The first studies I posted in this reply do not confirm this, which raises skepticism. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, here, I just want you to show me some research besides Brilla's that confirms Brilla's claims.

Here are a few that favor zinc, but I'm wondering about ZMA supplementation in particular.:

Cordova, A., and Alvarez-Mon. M., "Behaviour of Zinc in Physical Exercise: A Special Reference to Immunity and Fatigue," Neurosci Biobehav Rev 19.3 (1995) : 439-45.

Haralambie, G., "Serum Zinc in Athletes in Training," Int J Sports Med 2.3 (1981) : 135-8.

Singh, A., et al., "Magnesium, Zinc, and Copper Status of US Navy SEAL Trainees," Am J Clin Nutr 49.4 (1989) : 695-700.
------------------------------------------
Get critical; don't be a product of media hype. If you can show that ZMA does what Brilla claims it does with research that is not Brilla's, I'll purchase some ZMA and take it. I certainly would want to if the findings are legit. The problem is, as I said, Brilla's studies are the one and only studies cited by companies attempting to sell this supplement and there is research to suggest the findings on that study are not valid. Please prove this wrong. ZMA is a godsend for the natural bodybuilder if those claims are true...

[Arnold Palmer]

I agree with you soundness. I think ZMA is awesome though. Victor Conte' and a few others created it but tryed to market it as something it is not. ZMA is not a test booster. ZMA is great for sleep though and also a great way to get some zinc and magnesium in your diet which is hard to do and very beneficial.

[Soundness]

I agree with you soundness. I think ZMA is awesome though. Victor Conte' and a few others created it but tryed to market it as something it is not. ZMA is not a test booster. ZMA is great for sleep though and also a great way to get some zinc and magnesium in your diet which is hard to do and very beneficial.

Well, we could all use better sleep. I may go out and buy some then give it a shot. Thanks for your responses. 

[Arnold Palmer]

You should, you have nothing to lose. Let me know how it goes for you ZMA is one of the most interesting supplements to me. It's sleep effects are something I don't understand but have experienced first hand and just can't get enough of it.

[Soundness]

You should, you have nothing to lose. Let me know how it goes for you ZMA is one of the most interesting supplements to me. It's sleep effects are something I don't understand but have experienced first hand and just can't get enough of it.

I will. I figure there's nothing to lose, and if better sleep is all I get then that's well worth it. If nothing happens, oh well I'll quit taking it. I'm going to go buy the GNC Zinc Magnesium Aspartate for $30 (120 tablets) to give it a try.

Thanks.

[tbombz]

%50 Placebo %50 Real Effect for the best supplements IMO.

most others %90 percent placebo effect IMO.

ANDREISDAMAN
I agree with you andreisdaman but there is still a slight effect to most of them but the net gain you notice cannot be attibuted to much more than placebo. Spend you $ how you wa't if you have it.

What about ZMA. Im interested to see what soundness and debussy have to say about ZMA. I have had some huge effects from it. Mostly incredible sleep and incredibly vivid dreams (can be very good or very bad lol) and when I wake up I feel like 100 bucks even if I didn't sleep more than 3-4 hrs it will feel like i was asleep for 8.

there is no "opinion" or theory needed, arnold palmer. there is already "sscience and fact" to prove that certain supplements work and certain ones dont.

plenty of supplements will have good effects on your physique that you CAN NOT get from whole food.


whey concentrate/isolate/hydrosylate
bcaa's
l-leucine
caffiene
yohimbine
green tea extract
etc etc etc etc

anyway, nice name, golfing fan? ever tried the famous "arnold palmer" drink? its 1/2 lemonade 1/2 ice tea. its fabulous.

[busyB]

I will. I figure there's nothing to lose, and if better sleep is all I get then that's well worth it. If nothing happens, oh well I'll quit taking it. I'm going to go buy the GNC Zinc Magnesium Aspartate for $30 (120 tablets) to give it a try.

Thanks.

$30 for ZMA?? Now there is the problem. You are paying double the price at GN-Crap. Go to your local mom and pop shop or go online, that is way too pricey man!!!

Didn't read all these posts, but bottom line, Supplements do not replace food.

Supplements definition means "In addition to" meaning, to add to your diet and training program, not replace.

Yes, lots of marketing and hype behind some supps but some are very worthy. Keep it simple, dont need the whole store but there are supps that are useful kids. 

Plus, if a product gives you a placebo effec, say someone does train a bit harder maybe gets a few more reps on a lift he has been struggling with, what is the harm with that? Would you say the product was not working? Not to that kid...

[suckmymuscle]

Debussey has developed its own memorization and knowledge-integration system. Debussey's visual and episodic memory = a lot stronger than its auditory memorization ability, so Debussey has built a system around representing knowledge in visual and episodic terms that suits Debusseys memory best (this means not using the "association techniques" taught in normal mnemonic books as they are usually used).

Debussey first systematizes the knowledge to be memorized or really integrated (if applied to problem-situations, where the theoretical framework is to be applied to a task, the information must be overlearned so you don't have to consciously think to use it) in a very strict manner after one of several predefined "representation templates". Debussey then usually finds some visual representation of each defined "block" of knowledge, and this can for example be an abstract shape with a specific color (Debussey often uses color-coding in abstract structures to represent specific concepts or "configurations) that also does a repetitive movement (Debussey has a slight case of motion-synesthesia which makes visual figures with movement easy to remember due to the sound they produce), and perhaps a melody or specific sound (Debussey has a knack for remembering melodies).
After representing the information in a systematic sense via the visual and the auditory faculties as described above, Debussey has several "visual representation blocks" that are now visualized together several times in one or several ways. For example, Debussey can visualize a landscape where many different images/sounds as described above are organized together in some way. After a couple of visualizations, these "visualized landscapes" or similar visualizations (like "movies" in the mind with the image-representations as "actors") are basically remembered for years without much repetitions. Debussey has found that the more episodic, melody and motion stuff it incorporates, the longer and stronger the visualization sticks, due to the attributes of Debusseys brain already described.

Next is ensuring that the visualization will become integrated knowledge. Debussey will retell information contained in the images until an image naturally leads to a certain piece of information. This = a pretty easy job once a systematized method has been used for a long time. For example, the key of A (440) is easily heard as such on the piano, and the color blue immediately pops up (Debusseys color for A). For other concepts it can be an abstract image or an image of a person or something that just pops up once the information contained in it = thought of. It works the other way as well, the visual representation = seen, and the concept = recalled. (Which makes seeing the color blue fucking tiresome at times).

Once a proper association between the visual stimuli and the information it represents = there, Debussey usually does some integration work, like solving problems or doing exercises. Debussey focuses on using "pencil and paper" as little as possible, and instead doing the entire thing in the head. Usually, by this point, solving problems = pretty easy, since most people need exercises to INTEGRATE the principles that are not properly integrated into memory BEFORE starting on the exercise, thereby making the early exercise solving simply a memorization tool.

If doing things like playing a guitar, Debussey usually plays something while seeing an image or another representation of it. If practicing an inversion of an arpeggio on a guitar with a metronome, Debussey sees the appropriate representation of it in the mind, thereby strengthening the association between the represented theory and the motor-skill of playing.

This is just a basic overview of Debusseys way of doing it. The system = pretty detailed for different types of information and shit, and there = no point in regurgitating all of it here. It probably = useless for many other people, since it's tailored for Debusseys quirks and piss.

A small note about this way of doing it is that the recall of information seems to go incredibly fast, and the ability to scan information and get an overview of it (seeing huge detailed landscapes or abstract "worlds" or just a bunch of colors = pretty easy) = very easy. It sure beats pure root memorization, which = much slower, and without the same "staying power". At least for the retarded 52IQ brain of Debussey.

In simple terms: This way of doing it improves the possible quantity of memorization, and the quality of the memorization and subsequent remembering.

 

  Epic off-topic post. I will let it slide for purely entertainment reasons.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Arnold Palmer]

Yeah ZMA from GNC is more expensive. But thing is you can return it even if you use it for a few weeks if it doesn't work. Therefore I think its a good idea if you a trying for the first time. And really its about $20 online so with shipping its not that more. I think its for a month and a half instead of a month supply like the ones online for $20.

Tbombz,
I know all about research and have actually done some of it myself. You can make a study that shows anything. I could find correlation between any variable and make it seem like it causes muscle growth or muscle atrophy. You can't rely completely on research that is usually funded and biased by supplement companies themselves. Its part of the equation but you can't throw out personal experience they are both valuable, ok douchbag.

[andreisdaman]

your probably right but at 28$ per 40 servings, about 70 cents a workout i think i can afford the extra. I do agree as bodybuilders or whatever we are, we do get into rituals and they have a tremendous psychological difference.

c'mon Brent..you are too smart to let yourself be ripped off...even you admit in your post that the supps only make a PSYCHOLOGICAL difference...they do not work in terms of getting bigger or stronger physically...YOU make the difference!!!