“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government"

[Soul Crusher]

The constitution, a set of beliefs agreed upon by people who lived here before us.

I believe in a higher power, but to cite Him as the source of our rights?  Link to proof?  lol... people on the other side of the world can cite their god as proof women are both WITHOUT inalienable rights, can't they?  

my definition - our rights come from forefathers - is technically acccurate.  Yours is romantic and beautiful but not provable.  HTH.

So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it?  

[Soul Crusher]

You seriously are an ignorant person.   

*Written by men with their own agenda.  A noble one, but a human agenda nonetheless. 

We have the rights of the LAND, the rights of this country, with borders defined by men, by rules defined by men.  If 33 was born a woman in iran, he couldn't cite his god as NOT giving him/her inalienable right - he would blame the dicks in charge for not letting him vote.

So it's credit to God when convenient, but oppression by men when the rights aren't there?

[240 is Back]

So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it? 

stop making this about dem or repub or whatever.

"Certain unalienable rights" = What, exactly? 

If you are a female born in Iran, hey, guess what - those right are certainly "alienable".  You dont get them.

Now, to say God CHOOSES to make people born in this chunk of hands bestowed these rights, and yet those born in the sand with a vagina NOT to have these rights?

No, 33, that's not factual.  Stop thinking with your little fairy dress and think FACTS.  If Hitler had won WWII, you would have been born into a US without the Constitution.  You'd be reading a bill of rights that would be WAY different, and you wouldn't know any better.  This whole 'unalienable' thing is great, and we are very lucky to live here.  But really, it's not "REAL". 

you have those rights because 250 years ago, some really great guys wrote it down that you should, and an armed populace has ensured that hasn't changed.  The invisible dude in the sky did nothing but "inspire" jefferson and franklin and friends.  In your heart, it feels good to see God in the white robe with a magic wand giving white males in the USA certain rights... but tell us why he gave black men FEWER rights when taht constitution was written? 


33, your rights are granted by men.  You choose to live in their country.  Period. 

[Soul Crusher]

So in addition to knowing next to nothing about economics, now I see you know practically nothing as well about the declaration of independence , natural law, etc. 

[240 is Back]

So in addition to knowing next to nothing about economics, now I see you know practically nothing as well about the declaration of independence , natural law, etc. 

Both were written by men.  period. 

If hitler and stalin were running the USA in 1776/1783, you'd be lecturing me about how other rights were 'unalienable'.

Everyhting you "know" was taught to you based upon doctrine created by men with their own agendas, albeit noble ones.

Basing it upon what you "feel", on words from an invisible man in the sky, right?  Yes, you "know" all about us.  Sweet.

[240 is Back]

33, I dont think we are going to resolve anything.  I believe in a creator, but the way he's been painted by men with political agendas, well...

Are animals born with unalienable rights?  how's that cheeseburger?  Or God only gave us these rights?  Oh, women in Iran don't have them.  God only gave them to people born in the USA.  Luckily that's us. 

The fact is, we're just smart monkeys on a rock in space.  "unalienable" rights is a cool concept, but it was written down by hippies in the 1760s and 1770s.

[B_B_C]

You seriously are an ignorant person.   

God is meaner than you credit her
She  did not give you an inalienable right to intelligence
however she did allow you an inalieable supply of stubborness and stupidity 

[Kazan]

Both were written by men.  period. 

If hitler and stalin were running the USA in 1776/1783, you'd be lecturing me about how other rights were 'unalienable'.

Everyhting you "know" was taught to you based upon doctrine created by men with their own agendas, albeit noble ones.

Basing it upon what you "feel", on words from an invisible man in the sky, right?  Yes, you "know" all about us.  Sweet.

Would you have these rights if there was no government? And you do realize the first 10 amendments are the bill of rights? If the answer to the first question is yes, then they are natural/god given rights

[240 is Back]

Would you have these rights if there was no government? And you do realize the first 10 amendments are the bill of rights? If the answer to the first question is yes, then they are natural/god given rights

I believe in the Bill of rights and the COnstitution.

What I'm saying is that assigning their existence to an entity (God) who existence we cannot prove - it makes no sense.

I believe in a lot of things,

I think yall have your emotions tied in here - I love these rights, but we are afforded them by the lawmakers and authorities of the land.  Accept it.  You can't run around naked outdoors, but you can carry a gun - tell me which is the 'god given' right?  33333386 can't carry a gun in NYC - How can a guy named Bloomberg superceded the good lord when it comes to law?


In the late 1700s, some cool guy decided what the top ten rights would be (bill of rights).  Then they started a war, got to be in charge, and said everyone who lives in these borders gets these rights.  "God given"?  What is the criteria, again, for what God says we can do? 

I am not an athiest by any means - but I accept the "given" rights are the ones granted by those who run the country in which you live.  If you're born in Iran, you don't have the rights people born here get?  God chooses based on borders, right?  No - man does.

[Kazan]

I believe in the Bill of rights and the COnstitution.

What I'm saying is that assigning their existence to an entity (God) who existence we cannot prove - it makes no sense.

I believe in a lot of things,

I think yall have your emotions tied in here - I love these rights, but we are afforded them by the lawmakers and authorities of the land.  Accept it.  You can't run around naked outdoors, but you can carry a gun - tell me which is the 'god given' right?  33333386 can't carry a gun in NYC - How can a guy named Bloomberg superceded the good lord when it comes to law?


In the late 1700s, some cool guy decided what the top ten rights would be (bill of rights).  Then they started a war, got to be in charge, and said everyone who lives in these borders gets these rights.  "God given"?  What is the criteria, again, for what God says we can do? 

I am not an athiest by any means - but I accept the "given" rights are the ones granted by those who run the country in which you live.  If you're born in Iran, you don't have the rights people born here get?  God chooses based on borders, right?  No - man does.

Not so we live in a democratically elected representative republic. The only reason a right can be curtailed is because we allow it.

Read the bible, that will give a pretty good idea of where God stands.

Back to original question, if there were no government, would you:
Have the right to say what you want ( free speech)
Practice whatever religion you choose?
The ability to protect your self?

These are just some natural rights that a government does not give you.

[Soul Crusher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights



for the retards like 180 straw and the others

[Straw Man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights



for the retards like 180 straw and the others

333  - are you suggesting that Ryan was referring specifically to "natural rights" and not at all to legal rights when he said our rights come from "god and nature" ?

If so, exactly what natural rights is Ryan referring to (would have been nice for him to make that distinction of course

[Roger Bacon]

That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday

“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”

Do statements like this appeal to most Americans?  I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts

Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays?  How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle.    Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote.   I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote.   I guess that's possible.

Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs.   I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen.   This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.

Starting to like this guy

[Soul Crusher]

333  - are you suggesting that Ryan was referring specifically to "natural rights" and not at all to legal rights when he said our rights come from "god and nature" ?

If so, exactly what natural rights is Ryan referring to (would have been nice for him to make that distinction of course

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.   


Again, go take a civics class along w 180 as you two are hopelessly ignorant. 

[Straw Man]

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.   


Again, go take a civics class along w 180 as you two are hopelessly ignorant. 

slaves certainly got to enjoy those three things at the time we created this country

women too for that matter

now I see what Ryan was talking about

[Soul Crusher]

slaves certainly got to enjoy those three things at the time we created this country

women too for that matter

now I see what Ryan was talking about

Lol.   More ignorance from you.   The issue of slavery was hotly contested at the time of adoption of the constitution and the failure to deal w it appropriately led to a civil war resulting in the deaths of 600,000 to fix it remember? 

[Straw Man]

Lol.   More ignorance from you.   The issue of slavery was hotly contested at the time of adoption of the constitution and the failure to deal w it appropriately led to a civil war resulting in the deaths of 600,000 to fix it remember? 

no kidding

so you're saying even man took away the natural rights of slaves

has anyone reminded Ryan of this

women back at the time of the founding weren't exactly free to pursuit happiness either and didn't have much liberty

the one group that was free to pursuit liberty and happiness were the rich white men

maybe that's who Ryan was trying to communicate with when he made that statement

[Soul Crusher]

LOL.     Yah, go move to fucking north Korea or Cuba asshole.

[Straw Man]

LOL.     Yah, go move to fucking north Korea or Cuba asshole.

what's that got do with my post

hopefully now that Ryan has told us our rights (only a few it seems) come from maybe someone weill ask him more questions about

you'd think that since god gives us the right of "life" that he/she/it would have given us the right to food and shelter since you kind of need that for life

[garebear]

Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.

Even for someone lacking critical thinking skills, such as yourself, this an incredibly stupid thing to say.

I hope you grow up before it's all said and done.

[Soul Crusher]

what's that got do with my post

hopefully now that Ryan has told us our rights (only a few it seems) come from maybe someone weill ask him more questions about

you'd think that since god gives us the right of "life" that he/she/it would have given us the right to food and shelter since you kind of need that for life

I could care less if the ocean gave us that right.   the idea that thugs and pieces of garbage like Obama Clinton boeh ER bush McConnell give us rights is insane and communistic which I know you favor. 

[Straw Man]

I could care less if the ocean gave us that right.   the idea that thugs and pieces of garbage like Obama Clinton boeh ER bush McConnell give us rights is insane and communistic which I know you favor.  

I have no idea what you're attempting to say here

[garebear]

So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it?  

You really need to come up with some new material.

[Soul Crusher]

You really need to come up with some new material.

You real
 Need to research the Fay communist ghetto racist thug you support.   Obama called the USC fatally flawed Because it is a charter of negative liberties and does not redistribute the wealth. 

[tonymctones]

what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.

Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...

If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?