Want to know what makes Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell's blood boil? Tito Ortiz. Just a few hours after the "Huntington Beach Bad Boy" sounded off on a proposed boxing match with UFC President Dana White that never happened, Liddell contacted NBCSports.com with his take on Ortiz's refusal to fight.
Even though the two have squared off in the octagon twice (with Liddell winning by KO both times), the UFC light-heavyweight champion couldn't resist going for a third and final knockout, this time in print.
Despite being in the midst of hard training for his UFC 71 main event title defense against Quinton "Rampage" Jackson on May 26, Liddell spoke about the most discussed boxing match that never happened, if he'd ever fight Ortiz again, and oh yeah, his match with Rampage.
Q: Chuck, you're obviously in an important part of your training camp and have other things to focus on. What makes you want to get involved in this situation?
A: Tito's whole take on this is killing me. It's hilarious. When he first pulled out, he said, 'I don't want to risk getting hurt, and that Dana was almost a pro boxer.' It sounds to me like he didn't want to look like a p----.
I thought the whole thing was silly to begin with. But my problem with what he said now is, why would he make those comments he made at first? It sounded like he was afraid to fight him. But he's been changing [what he said] ever since.
Listen, boxing is a different sport, and it's a sport he's definitely not real good at. That's not his thing. His thing is wrestling, ground-and-pound. He's not a boxer and he doesn't like getting hit. He's not real good at it.
Q: So you think he was basically scared to get in the ring with Dana?
A: It sounds like it. He was the one who put the fight in his contract. It was a perk in his deal. He says he didn't have a bout agreement? Why would you have a bout agreement? It's a perk. You're the one who asked for it! Where's mine? Let's spar three rounds. No one would give me a bout agreement. No way he'd go three rounds with me.
It's one of those things he added in to his deal. It's like he's always done with contracts. He's always gone back and changed them. He ends up wanting to make more money. Well, why did you originally ask for it? You were willing to do it. You wanted to do it, right? You signed the contract, didn't you? He asked for it. Dana didn't ask to fight him.
Q: To play devil's advocate, his contention is that it went from a boxing match with a ref to an entire TV production where people were making money, but he didn't have a say in where the money was going.
A: That's a point he could've made instead of just not showing up. He could've said it way before they started filming. He waited until they'd already done a bunch of interviews and tapings. They'd even done interviews with me about, and I said then I thought it was silly they were fighting in the first place. Then, after that, he decides he's not going to do it. It's his normal business model. He decides, 'I want more money now.' And I'm sure he was getting something. If it had gone that far, he was getting something. I think he wasn't getting enough. He wanted to change the deal. I don't know that for fact; I'm not privy to contract stuff with them, but the comments that he first made were probably more truthful than what he's saying now. And those comments were that he was worried about getting hurt, and mentioning that Dana was almost a pro boxer. It sounds to me like he was a p----.
Q: In some ways though, it doesn't make sense that he'd suddenly be afraid, because he obviously knew about Dana's boxing background as they've known each other for years.
A: He knew what he was getting into. He trained and sparred with Dana before back in the day. But there came a point where he might have realized, people are going to see us, and I might look bad. Maybe he remembered he's not great a boxer. A boxing match is a totally different thing than an MMA match.
Q: Dana's given his side of the story too, so what was it about what Tito said that angered you so much that you wanted to voice your opinion?
A: Not that I get angry, but the guy is frustrating. He'll run his mouth, he'll change what he says. He always runs his mouth off. He likes to say that I'm Dana's boy and that I'll do anything Dana wants. If you mean I fight anyone he asks me to fight? Yeah; I don't turn down opponents. That's true. I'll fight anyone, unlike yourself. He frustrates me. He doesn't make sense to me. It's obvious that since the beginning of this and his first explanation, he's talked to people about how to spin this in interviews.
Q: What do you think would have happened in the boxing match if it had occurred?
A: Like I said, I think the whole thing was silly. I think if Tito got clipped real hard, he would've covered up for the whole rest of the fight. He doesn't hit hard enough to hurt Dana. He might've gotten outboxed. He probably would have.
Q: Have you sparred with Dana before?
A: One time. He won't spar with me now.
Q: But from a skill level, you think he would've done well?
A: Without having to prepare to get hit hard? Yeah. He would've done fine with Tito.
Q: What Tito said about the bout agreements, that they're usually not done until 3-4 weeks before the fight, is that correct?
A: That depends on the fight. Most of the time, they try to get them signed before they announce the fight. But this whole bout agreement, thing … it's a sparring match with a promoter! A three-round sparring match. Do you really need a bout agreement for that? That's another one of his ways to pull something. It's an excuse. You didn't have a bout agreement? So? Just because you didn't have a bout agreement doesn't mean you didn't agree to fight. Did you agree or not? Of course you did; it's in your contract. It's semantics.
Did you say you were going to show up and fight? Yes. But you didn't sign a bout agreement, so you won't. Does that make you less of a p----?
If I told you, I'd show up and do it, do you need me to sign a paper? Legally, maybe. The bout agreement is all for legalities. But when I agree to fight someone on an existing contract I have, for all intents and purposes, I've signed my bout agreement, because I told you I'd do it for whatever the contract said.
Q: But his contention was there was nothing in his contract saying where any of the money would go. He says he wanted to see something in writing as far as where the money was going. The money could have gone to charity, but there was nothing saying it would.
A: Of course he'd say that. It's something that would make him look good. If that's what he wanted, I have no doubt they'd do it for charity. Even the way he says it, he said, 'Well we talked about it, but never heard anything.' Well, why didn't you ask? These are all excuses, even using this charity angle, as a way to make himself look better.
Q: Again, playing devil's advocate, why do you think Tito would make trouble for himself with his boss? With Zuffa owning PRIDE now, there's less places for him to go if a rift developed. Also, he had to anticipate this would turn into a headache.
A: He's always done that though. He's not worried about it. He thinks it doesn't matter. I don't think he's that worried about it. He's never had a problem with pissing Dana off.
Q: Do you think they will still fight at some point? Would Dana do it if it was good for business?
A: I'm sure he would. I don't think Dana has a problem with fighting him. Dana showed up. He's the guy that showed up, not the other way around. If Tito wanted to get all that stuff locked down, they could've sat down and locked it down, I'm sure. He just didn't show up. I know people who say he knew five days before it happened he wasn't going to show. He decided ahead of time. If all this negotiation stuff was the reason, they should have sat at a table and come to an agreement or disagreement, and that should've been the end of it. Instead, he just didn't show up. He decided not to do it and then didn't show up. A lot of it comes down to way he does things.
Q: He said he called about a week before and told Dana the fight wasn't going to happen.
A: He's going to make up a bunch of excuses to make himself look good. Look at the stuff that was first written about what he said.
Q: What are your final thoughts on this?
A: I think it's funny. He runs his mouth to keep himself in the news.
He's still running his mouth about me. He's talking about me? Your next fight with me will be a couple years down the road if you could string together that many wins.
Q: How many wins would he have to put together to get another shot at you?
A: It depends on Dana and those guys. And it comes down to what the fans want, and what we could sell. For me, he'd have to beat three quality guys at least. Three up and comers who are getting in line for a shot. But I'll fight him any time UFC decides it's a sellable fight, just because I like beating him up, too.
Q: Do you see him as a challenge after beating him twice?
A: I don't. I've never seen him as a challenge. If he earns his way back, I'd like to do it just because my fans like to see him get beat up. I don't see a problem beating him up. Anytime he wants.
Q: So beating Tito were two of the highlights of your career?
A: Fun matches, yeah. .
Q: Did he give you a better match than you expected at UFC 66, taking you into the third round?
A: Not really. It's one of those things where I'll catch him sooner or later if he stays out there.
I wanted him to quit, too. I could've stayed on top of him in the first round. They asked him, 'do you want to stop it?' After the second time, he turned, so I went back up. In the third, when the ref told him, 'I'm going to stop it,' he decided not to move. I don't think he was out. He just decided, I'll let him stop this. Not as fun as knocking him out, but fun enough.
Q: Is he one of your least favorite people?
A: Definitely. I don't like the way he runs his mouth all the time. I don't like the way he carries himself outside the ring. The whole thing with me and him… If you listen to him, you'd think he took me off the street, raised me, taught me to fight and I turned on him. We were training partners. People brought me in to help him get ready for fights.
He says, 'you stayed at my house.' Yeah, I stayed at your house, so I didn't have to pay for a hotel room when I went down to train. I used to beat him up every time we used to train. I beat him at everything when we trained.
I just let it go, but every time I do an interview, the person will say, 'By the way, Tito said this about you.' Why would he be talking about me now? He's not fighting me. We have nothing to do with each other now. What's the point?
Q: He does want to beat you. He stated that's his goal.
A: If that's his obsession, he'll be obsessed for a long time, because it ain't going to happen.
Q: Turning to something a bit lighter, how did your guest-starring role on Entourage come about?
A: I actually asked for it. It's my favorite show. I called Dana up and said, 'Don't you know Mark Wahlberg? Call him up and get me on Entourage.' I just want to do a walk-thru, say 'Hey Vince,' or something that simple. But the producers decided if we're going to put me on, they might as well put me in it. So I got to do the episode and it was pretty cool. It's amazing how many people saw it.
Q: What's it like to see yourself and your son on the cover of ESPN the Magazine?
A: That's really cool. It's really cool to be on with my son. It was great they did it that way.
It means a lot to me to be on with my son. To have a mainstream magazine and be on with my son is really cool. I wish they could've included a picture inside with my daughter, but I guess you can't get everything.
Q: How is your training for Rampage going?
A: It's going great. I'm in great shape, I'm healthy. I got another week of hard training. I just want to make it through healthy and 100 percent for the fight. So I'm happy with that.
Q: You think he'll try to come out, press the pace and take you down?
A: I think he'll come out and get in my face. He's going to try to come after me and take me down. Eventually, we'll exchange. And then we know what comes next.
Q: What's your prediction on the fight?
A: I'm planning on knocking him out. If he comes at me the way I think he will, it'll be in the first couple rounds
