Author Topic: New York Pro Fitness Pre-Judging / Finals (Read 16757 times)

Tre · « **Reply #50 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:30:23 AM »

Quote from: Lift Studios on April 24, 2006, 08:56:40 PM

Glad to see you participate in the board you love to bash as well. Mayhem must really be boring these days.

George is a GetBig basher??

"There will be consequences and repercussions."

Picsman · « **Reply #51 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:06:23 PM »

Quote from: Lift Studios on April 24, 2006, 08:56:40 PM

Yes, George we're all aware of your hatred towards the NPC & IFBB. Glad to see you participate in the board you love to bash as well. Mayhem must really be boring these days.

yeah yeah....and you're still the butthead you've always been....so you might as well start deleting...loser!

JKDMan · « **Reply #52 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:09:13 PM »

Quote from: Picsman on April 25, 2006, 07:06:23 PM

yeah yeah....and you're still the butthead you've always been....so you might as well start deleting...loser!

Doh!

Lift Studios · « **Reply #53 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:36:06 PM »

Quote from: Picsman on April 25, 2006, 07:06:23 PM

yeah yeah....and you're still the butthead you've always been....so you might as well start deleting...loser!

Different board, same bitter George. God Bless ya, ya old fart.

Picsman · « **Reply #54 on:** April 25, 2006, 08:37:10 PM »

Quote from: Lift Studios on April 25, 2006, 07:36:06 PM

Different board, same bitter George. God Bless ya, ya old fart.

First off...don't act like you know me...you don't....you know absof*ckinglutely NOTHING about me...you say I'm bitter?....you don't get it...I tell the truth....it doesn't jive with your idea of reality...so you call me bitter....I'm not bitter...you're just a blind, lemming, butthead plain and simple...you accuse me of things I don't do...and you don't even have the wherewithall to try to make sure your facts are straight...remember when you acussed me of emailing one of your "clients"?....well...I didn't forget that...and that's why I consider you king of all buttheads...for a supposedly "in the know" Internet guy....how simple would it have been to CHECK AN IP ADDRESS?......but noooo....you had your mind made up it was me...and you were wrong....100% wrong....you know why?...because I found out who did it...he actually pvt msg'd me......I'll tell you just like I told you're "buddy"....I have one thing and one thing only in common with superman....I don't lie....so please...let's keep God out of this one....he won't/can't help you.....no matter what...you'll always be a loser....you're so laughable.....roflmfao!

Tre · « **Reply #55 on:** April 26, 2006, 02:11:42 PM »

George - with all due respect, I'm going to have to shut you down at that point - this is a serious thread which has presented some serious allegations that need to be addressed.

Please keep the personal tit-for-tat stuff on the main gossip or X boards.

Thanks and welcome.

Tre · « **Reply #56 on:** April 26, 2006, 02:21:09 PM »

Having had a chance to view all the two-minute routines, I now see what all the fuss was about.

According to this scoresheet:

Heidi Fletcher was placed 3rd in round 3 (which I'm assuming is the two-minute round - please correct me if I'm mistaken) when there were NO LESS THAN 12 routines better than hers.

Judges - you can claim that those of us who weren't there didn't see what you saw, but although video evidence can sometimes be misleading, it could not have lied that much.

Considering that we're talking about 2nd place overall here, this was - without question - one of your worst judging 'jobs' that I've ever seen. Even someone who knew nothing at all about how fitness routines should look would've known that that routine was nowhere close to being the 3rd-best in the competition.

To CQ and the others I doubted, my apologies. I was clearly wrong to in any way defend the possibility that the judges may have been correct on this one. They screwed the pooch, bigtime.

Tre · « **Reply #57 on:** April 26, 2006, 02:30:27 PM »

Note: That's not an attack on Heidi at all, but is an attack on that blatantly incompetent judging panel (unless they're going to assign the blame to the tabulators) who robbed the other competitors, the fans, and the sport itself.

The judges - collectively - were either incompetent or crooked or both.

Picsman · « **Reply #58 on:** April 26, 2006, 03:21:54 PM »

Quote from: Tre on April 26, 2006, 02:11:42 PM

George - with all due respect, I'm going to have to shut you down at that point - this is a serious thread which has presented some serious allegations that need to be addressed.

Please keep the personal tit-for-tat stuff on the main gossip or X boards.

Thanks and welcome.

Respect and props back at ya...the fact is you know who just had to put his 2 pesos/slam remark towards me in when the thread had nothing to do with him...or ANY comments I made as NONE were directed at him. Given the importance of this thread...as I also agree it is important...that's all I'll have to say about it...regarding you know who...other than that...let the judges/tabulators have it...because there is NO basis for those placings!

midknight · « **Reply #59 on:** April 26, 2006, 04:12:11 PM »

Quote from: Picsman on April 25, 2006, 08:37:10 PM

First off...don't act like you know me...you don't....you know absof*ckinglutely NOTHING about me...you say I'm bitter?....you don't get it...I tell the truth....it doesn't jive with your idea of reality...so you call me bitter....I'm not bitter...you're just a blind, lemming, butthead plain and simple...you accuse me of things I don't do...and you don't even have the wherewithall to try to make sure your facts are straight...remember when you acussed me of emailing one of your "clients"?....well...I didn't forget that...and that's why I consider you king of all buttheads...for a supposedly "in the know" Internet guy....how simple would it have been to CHECK AN IP ADDRESS?......but noooo....you had your mind made up it was me...and you were wrong....100% wrong....you know why?...because I found out who did it...he actually pvt msg'd me......I'll tell you just like I told you're "buddy"....I have one thing and one thing only in common with superman....I don't lie....so please...let's keep God out of this one....he won't/can't help you.....no matter what...you'll always be a loser....you're so laughable.....roflmfao!

major melt down

please step away from the computer and give yourself a time out.

CQ · « **Reply #60 on:** April 26, 2006, 04:26:58 PM »

Great post Tre, and I concur on all points. I have never before posted negative things like this, but in this case the "judging" was so ludicrous it had to be done. I have always just ignored people when they say shows are fixed etc.. but this *really* makes me wonder $:-\$

Everyone is busy trying to be politically correct and not comment on it...little do they realize that does not help, it will only allow things like this to continue.

Was the vid digital? Do you have a link or anything?

CQ · « **Reply #61 on:** April 26, 2006, 04:30:24 PM »

Quote from: Tre on April 26, 2006, 02:30:27 PM

Note: That's not an attack on Heidi at all, but is an attack on that blatantly incompetent judging panel

Bump for this point. I think this speaks for all those in this thread who have criticized the judging.

dacof · « **Reply #62 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:10:26 PM »

Tre - I believe that round 3 is actually the 2 piece placings. Round 4 is the 2 minute routines....Heidi placed 2nd in round 4...which just highlights your point even more. It is very refreshing to see someone take a different view point after seeing all the facts...thanks for your well written post!

Tre · « **Reply #63 on:** April 26, 2006, 07:31:00 PM »

Hey thanks, yeah, just got a note about the rounds...and you're right, that made it even worse. Second?? Are you kidding me???

Someone should've demanded a re-count right then and there. I can imagine that the NYC crowd must've gone nuts, assuming they were paying attention.

Since there was an obvious scoring error, why hasn't the head of the judging panel from that night issued an apology and correction of the placings? That would be the fair and classy thing to do. Oh no, wait...for a moment there, I forgot that I was talking about the IFBB.

Picsman · « **Reply #64 on:** April 26, 2006, 08:37:33 PM »

Quote from: Tre on April 26, 2006, 07:31:00 PM

That would be the fair and classy thing to do. Oh no, wait...for a moment there, I forgot that I was talking about the IFBB.

Tre is an IFBB basher??

"There will be consequences and repercussions."

LOL

MrsQ · « **Reply #65 on:** April 28, 2006, 05:22:57 AM »

Tre- If I hadn't been there myself, I too would have given the judges the benefit of the doubt and assumed sour grapes.

I also agree that the message of this thread should not be wrongly considered a bash on Heidi, she is a great competitor and is actually not the focus of my frustration. I only hope that maybe one of the 2000 viewers of this thread is someone who can make a changes where they are needed. None of us would be going to so many events and posting on websites if we didn't care about this sport and want to see its continued success.

hardlyhard · « **Reply #66 on:** April 28, 2006, 09:35:59 AM »

this is the craziest post i have ever seen. i wasnt in NY but i wish i was based on this.

physiques and facial beauty is subjective yes, but the other stuff does not have to be as much.

do you all know that there are ways to make routine scoring less bias(especially the 45 second). i have 2 nieces in the bay area that come from sport aerobics and there is nothing like this for them. they never bitch about scores. it is what it is based on how they perfrom. mandatories are mandatories and are judged on technical merit and endurance. they dont care if you are the queen of the @#$% 'in IFbb. if you miss a skill it does not matter who your management team is.

why not have EVERYONE have a perfect score of 100 pts and deductions are taken based on missing a skill, bent legs in a skill, splits not touching down all the way, energy is less than par, toes not pointed etc. it can be so simple and yet its made so complex. 12 judges cant all miss bent knees and missed press holds. unless they are not even watching.

the 2 minute can also be judged on tech merit, endurance ratings and entertainment value.

if the athletes are happy with the scoring then fine. but it seems like everyone is bitching EXCEPt the athletes. why doesnt the fitness ifbb rep take a poll for a new way to judge. it can be an experiment. it aint gonna hurt thats for sure.

kszep · « **Reply #67 on:** April 28, 2006, 12:02:19 PM »

I am an athlete who competed in the NY Pro and have been reading this thread since the show. I think athletes like myself may have been hesitant to reply because they feel that they may be penalized in their next show for voicing their opinions. They may also be afraid that by complaining, they will sound like they are crying "sour grapes", or possibly offending other competitors.
I want to first make it clear that in no way do I feel that I should have placed in this show. I am a rookie who still has much to improve on and there were many seasoned, talented competitors in this show. I am just plain confused about how the score sheets read. As a rookie, I feel that it is important for me to look at the physiques and routines of those who place higher than me to see what it is that I need to work on for the next show. However, when I look at the scores of those who placed ahead of me (and there were a lot

, I have no idea in what direction I should be headed. The placings seemed to show lack consistency-especially in routines (on a personal level, this is what made me the most frusturated, as performing routines is my favorite aspect of competing)
Since I can not come close to predicting what the judges are looking for, I have decided to stop pondering the NY Pro and focus on coming into the Little Rock show the best that I can, as I have always tried to do. I hope that fair and consistent placings in upcoming shows will help any disenchanted fans and athletes return to their love of the sport.
-Katie Szep

CQ · « **Reply #68 on:** April 28, 2006, 03:35:20 PM »

Katie, you have a fantastic routine

pinky · « **Reply #69 on:** April 28, 2006, 03:49:18 PM »

I was at the show...... I have been reading this from day one but haven't posted because my feelings have been so left and right. I am not sure where to start. But I have been trying to justify why the judges scored the way the did. (I agree with everybody else) I adore Heidi. She looks beautiful on stage. She is polished and poised. Her style is not what "we" expect of a Pro fitness competitor. But I have to say, I do enjoy watching her. I personally would choose a stronger, more powerful competitor as a winner or high finisher in the routine rounds. I was shocked at first. Then I just felt so badly for Heidi. She was probably on cloud 9 after this. To be a topic in such a horrible situation can't possibly feel good.

As a fitness competitor myself...I can only hope that maybe,...just maybe this might be the start of some sort of structure. I want to improve and be the best I can be just like the girl next to me. But I have no map to follow. I feel like I'm closing my eyes, holding my breath and just going in hopes I get lucky.

I get so irritated when I see girls perform elements that they simply can not do. If you can't dance, don't dance. If you can't do a one arm push up .....well, do figure until you can. Why do I bust my ass to perfect even the easiest of moves if I know it will never make a difference?? I finally just found a few people who I go to with questions ect. and ignore everything else.

Is there hope?

hardlyhard · « **Reply #70 on:** April 29, 2006, 10:40:54 AM »

Who is the fitness rep now that Ryan is somewhat um, out of commision. all the athletes, even the "best scored" athletes need to take a stand and send in some sort of petition to the IFBB requesting some simple changes . if you do not speak up as a whole, you will never be heard. is there anyone that is a good voice to speak for all of you fitness women. if it is the whole damn group in its entirety that speaks, you will not be acting like a cry baby or "sour grapes". start with the mandatory routines it would be the simplest to judge. katie, you have a great routine. it is clearly one of your strengths. if you missed a mandatory, would you throw a hissy fit if the judges had a new system and penalized you? Hell no, of course not, because you had concrete facts to back their decision. good GOD people. do something collectively or DEAL with the sports BS. Deal with it or dont compete. it aint gonna change til you ALL do something.

Just A Huge Fitness Fan · « **Reply #71 on:** April 29, 2006, 11:49:36 AM »

Tre - Very well written post, thank you for your research and honesty with what you found.

Hardlyhard - If it was only as easy as you make it sound. I have been a fan for many years and I'm the type of person that gets to know the rules and intimate details for the events I enjoy watching. Why did I tell you this? Because the rules (especially for the mandatory) are already in place and very simple to learn and enforce if a judge cares enough about the fitness competitors to learn them. Granted the rules only tell you the basics and it is up to the IFBB to train and each individual judge to learn what makes each one of the six mandatory moves easier or more difficult so they can judge accordingly.

Second, you can’t expect the athletes to change terrible judging and unfair practices. It is up to the fans (the ones on this board) to write the IFBB and most importantly the media that cover fitness competitions. The media that covers football, baseball or Olympic events would love to report these huge inconsistencies and what seem to be blatant ethical dilemmas that continue to hurt fitness and its competitors year after year. The Olympics may have problems now and then with judges, however when they do the perpetrators are punished (usually banned for life) and the issue is addressed by the IOC. It only makes the competing organization look silly when they pretend no problem exists. In addition most competitors are afraid to speak to the fitness media because of the ties with the highly appointed IFBB officials and neither the competitor or media personality want to rock the boat for fear of being pushed out.

So Hardlyhard I respectively disagree, the concrete facts from the routine rounds already exists, only they support the reason this thread was started and they (the competitors) should not deal with the BS or get out. As a matter of fact everyone should KEEP being vocal and send complaints to the IFBB. Compete for the love of the sport and fight for what is right. This thread has had to have received some attention in the IFBB headquarters?

hardlyhard · « **Reply #72 on:** April 29, 2006, 07:58:05 PM »

Fair enough "huge fitness fan" you do make some strong points. Ive been watching fitness since back in the day when timea and all those girls were around. it seems the same problems are still happening today. i get so torqued up about the athletic side veres the physique side.

i have been intrigued by fitness women for years. i think they are just incredible athletes . and some are INCREDIBLY hot too i might add . the most athletic skills are asked of women who are at their bodies most deprived state. its crazy. they should be judged failry and "huge fitness fan" i have learned a hell uva lot about the rules you are referring to and most dont comply period to rules. so why have them.

IT CAN be MORE simple. IT CAN However it is not due to the blind eye lead by judges etc and as they say old habits die hard. they are afraid of trying something new or too lazy. it is quite sad when the fans know more about the execution of a routine than a judging panel. in fact i was just talking to a fitness pro who trains at my gym. she is going to be promoting her own show and the promoters told her quote "judges dont like and dont want to judge fitness". so it starts at the npc level and moves forward. she is having a hard time finding fitness competitors period.

if you honestly feel that the ifbb will listen to "fans" then people need to speak up. who do you recommend sending a letter to first? id be happy to start the process. im done with my ranting. Hardly Hard

Tre · « **Reply #73 on:** April 29, 2006, 09:54:41 PM »

Quote from: hardlyhard on April 29, 2006, 07:58:05 PM

if you honestly feel that the ifbb will listen to "fans" then people need to speak up. who do you recommend sending a letter to first? id be happy to start the process. im done with my ranting. Hardly Hard

Real quick, as I've only got a moment - I'm really glad to see so many well-founded opinions being expressed here.

No one within the IFBB 'listens', because they do not have to. Again, that's the problem with a zero-accountability system. If a fitness performer-athlete would like to air a grievance, she has no idea who to write or call. The athletes aren't a part of the process, because there is no process.

Don't stop ranting, though. Bang enough drums loudly and eventually something will change.