Oil in Walker’s shoulders

[Van_Bilderass]

I used to get huge egg shaped knots with a lot of pain from a 2cc glute shot of Sustanon.

I asked IFBB pro Dave Marinelli why this occured and he said it was more than likely due to the Test Propionate in the Sustanon.

Who knows,but I couldn`t lay on a fucking bench to do crunches and had to pad a bench with a towel on chest day until the pain finally wore off.

Sustanon is notorious for that. I can't explain why but after using gear consistently the post injection pain may go away. I recently did a few Sustanon and I didn't feel a thing. Now if I hit my thighs I usually feel it but I mostly do my glutes. I could theoretically do 2, 5cc shots per glute a week with no problems. One dorsogluteal and one ventrogluteal. That would be 20cc per week no problem. Ventrogluteal is when you go straight in at a 90 degree angle from the side under your hip bone. Might be the best spot but most use dorsogluteal.

[Bevo]

Just so it's here (from 2015) -

The Lowdown On Drugs Part 1 - 4
Kevin Levrone, Shawn Ray & Dorian Yates Speak Out





There have always been plenty of lies and misinformation about steroids and other PEDs (performance-enhancing drugs). Things took a turn for the worse as the Internet made it possible to disseminate bad information at a rate and scale previously unimagined. In recent years, we’ve seen a flood of self-proclaimed drug experts, many of whom post anonymously, hold court on which drugs to use, how to use them and in what amounts. More than a few gain credibility with their target audience by claiming to be current or former pro bodybuilders, or to be advisers to them, even going so far as to list in detail the drug regimens of top bodybuilders, past and present. Understandably, their ulterior motives typically entail soliciting their own consulting services as drug gurus, or in some cases actually selling drugs.

Getting the pros to talk about drug use, and particularly their own, is a tricky situation at best. First you have the legal ramifications of admitting to illegal drug use, as well as the damage to your public image (even though all of us who have been around the sport for any length of time are fully aware that drugs are part of the game). That’s why we went to these living legends of the sport, all of whom are long since retired, to get the real scoop on drugs: their opinions on them, their experience as users and more. Nothing was off limits, and the frankness of some answers will surprise you. Remember, this is not secondhand or thirdhand information— for once it’s directly from the champion’s mouths. (Originally published in the February 2015 edition of MD Magazine.)

How old were you when you did your first cycle of steroids? Do you feel you were old enough? What was the cycle, and what type of results did you experience?

SR: I had just turned 20 and was coming off my overall victory in the NPC Teenage National Championship in Atlanta, Georgia. It was a time of trepidation for me. I knew this chemical aspect was present, however I just never wanted it to be a part of my economy as an athlete. Yet I also knew there were beneficial aspects to help growth, recovery and condition, and that these drugs were designed to aid and assist bodybuilders in their progress and competitive edge. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t scared, but like the majority of bodybuilders with any credible measure of success, I too would have to cross this bridge to get to the other side. I was on the verge of becoming my own person, making adult decisions, and this would for sure be one of them. I did a very light cycle of Anavar and Winstrol V for six weeks for that contest, and found myself in the victory circle again, a mere five months after becoming the best teenage bodybuilder in America. I was now the best junior champion in the world, at 20 years old.

What was strange to me about the introduction of steroids into my training regimen was that I had already believed in my “genetic potential” by winning all those teenage competitions over the past three years, but I came to doubt myself as I grew out of that division because I would be competing against older guys who were bigger and more mature than I was. I felt drugs would be a necessary addition at the next level of competition, based on the information I was constantly receiving from those who were more experienced in the game than I was. I felt like I trained a bit harder, with more purpose and hunger while using the drugs because I was told, “Steroids don’t just work because you take them, you have to make them work for you by training harder than ever before and dieting harder than everyone else!” It seemed like a psychological mindfuck of sorts, but I also knew that I was desperately trying to dot the I’s and cross the T’s to be the best in the world, not simply be pretty good!

The bar was raised very high for me with each victory, and my purpose in the sport was constantly being put to the test in the form of my mentor, John Brown. He wouldn’t allow me to become complacent, and took my training to another level once I introduced steroids. We trained longer and harder than ever before, took naps necessary for complete recovery, and also increased calories for growth and recovery. These were things that were not a part of my teenage contest preps, because victory came easy to me in those years. Now that I had moved on to the next level of competition, victory would have to be earned because the landscape and playing field would be quite different! These were no longer other kids I would be up against, but grown men with many years more training than I had.


DY: It was 1985. I was 23 years old and had decided to enter my first competition after a year and a half of training, in which I had made excellent progress. I knew the others who would be competing would be using gear, and I wanted to even the playing field. It was a very deliberate decision that I didn’t take lightly, and I did as much reading as I could first. At 23, I feel I was old enough. At that age, you are fully matured physically, you’ve reached your full adult height, and so on. Even though I hadn’t been training terribly long, I had already managed to develop my physique to a decent level. Looking back, I may have been able to win that contest without using anything. I did one six-week “building” cycle of 20 milligrams of Dianabol a day, which took me from 215 at 5’11” to 235. Those were the most dramatic results I ever saw from steroids. I took six weeks off the gear, then at eight weeks out from my contest I began using 15 milligrams of Anavar per day, as well as one shot of Primobolan a week, which was 200 milligrams. I competed at around 210-215 and won that contest. EFBB [Britain’s equivalent of the NPC] officials were there and convinced me to represent the United Kingdom the following weekend as our heavyweight at the IFBB World Games. I placed seventh, and competed with men like Berry de Mey and Matt Mendenhall, both of whom were the top amateur heavyweights in their respective nations at that time.

KL: Like I said, I did my first cycle of steroids when I was 24 years old, almost 25, at six weeks out from my first contest. By then, I was a grown man and making all my own decisions in all aspects of life, since both of my parents had passed away. My cousin Chico came over to my house with a bottle of testosterone cypionate and a syringe, and said, “Here you go.” But I had no idea how to load the syringe and do the shot, so I asked him to please do that for me. I don’t even know how much he gave me, but I had one shot a week for six weeks. That was it. The first week, nothing happened. Another week went by, still nothing. I was starting to think steroids didn’t do anything, but in the third week I started getting stronger all of a sudden, and looking fuller. I was training at a little health club called National Fitness, but at that point I decided to join a Powerhouse near me in Linthicum, Maryland, where a lot of serious bodybuilders and powerlifters went. There were a lot of guys using gear in there … and a few guys there sold it, too. I didn’t know I was supposed to diet for the show. I was working in construction all day back then, so that burned up a lot of calories. My dinners would be a Double Whopper with cheese from Burger King, and ice cream from McDonald’s. Before that six-week cycle, I was 198 pounds. By the end, I was 206 and much harder looking. I won the heavyweight and overall. A year later, I did the same thing at the NPC Junior Nationals and then turned pro at the Nationals in the fall of ‘91 at 236 pounds.

Did you believe in taking time completely off drugs for portions of the year, or did you always “cruise” on a low dose?

SR: As soon as the Mr. Olympia concluded every September, I remained drug free until the new year, every year.

DY: As I said, I would intersperse two four-week periods between my three eight-week cycles in the off-season. Aside from that, I was consistently on, but my doses were moderate.


KL: About halfway through my pro career, I had become famous for how much time I took off gear. It would be a full six months out of the year that I didn’t use anything. People thought I was crazy or lazy for doing it that way, and not trying to be huge all the time. But once I saw how well I responded to the juice, I realized I didn’t need much of it, and I sure didn’t need to be on it all the time. I could start up at 12 weeks out from a contest, and put all my muscle back on and get ripped by the time the show came around.

We see steroid cycles of top pros, both past and present, posted online— always from an anonymous source that claims to have coached the athlete in question, trained with them or known someone who did one of those. Have you ever seen one that seemed accurate, or do you think they are all completely fabricated because most people will accept them as being legit?

SR: I have never seriously cared nor have I ever been interested in what other athletes take or do regarding drug use. I personally believe what they do is personal to them and of no concern to me. I liken this attitude to another person’s sex life. I mean, really … what business is it of ours anyway, and to whose benefit? It’s their life and their journey— let them live it as they please and do what they want, so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.

DY: I can’t speak for all of them, though I have seen a few attributed to me that were absolutely fake. I saw one site that had the supposed cycles of everyone from Steve Reeves, Arnold to 50 Cent. Obviously most or all of them are made up. I talked in MD about what I used 20 years ago; I’m sure things have changed since then. But look, I’m retired now and I have the freedom to say what I want and be honest. Current athletes have pressure from sponsors and officials not to discuss their usage.

But back to the cycles I have seen posted that I supposedly did— they were all bullshit. Who knows what I used? Even my wife at the time didn’t. The only guys who did were my training partners at the time. Leroy Davis was my longtime training partner, and he typically used the same things I did. I can assure you he isn’t posting our cycles on the Internet.

KL: Unless the cycle came directly from the pro himself, like we are doing in this article, it’s almost certainly bullshit. People try to pass off so much crap as facts online, when it’s either something they came up with or just their opinion. I can’t imagine any top pro taking huge amounts of drugs for years without suffering serious health problems. It’s just satisfying for a lot of guys out there to see these crazy cycles that the champions supposedly do and say, “OK, that’s why he looks like that and won all those shows, he did tons and tons of drugs— that’s why I don’t look like him.”

In bodybuilding there’s no more contentious issue than drug use exacerbated by the variety of conflicting advice being spread through the Internet. That’s why we went to these living legends of the sport, all of whom are long since retired, to get the real scoop on drugs: their opinions on them, their experience as users and more. Nothing was off limits, and the frankness of some answers will surprise you. Remember, this is not secondhand or thirdhand information— for once it’s directly from the champion’s mouths.

There is a lot of arguing about the amount of steroids the “average” pro uses these days. Some claim the total milligrams for gear each week ranges from 3,000 to 10,000. Do you believe some pros and top amateurs are using outrageous amounts? And if so, do they actually need that much or are they using far more than they need to?

SR: I defer to the previous answer I just gave you. Many of these pros take large doses of anabolics, HGH, insulin, alcohol, tobacco, food, supplements and so on. At the end of the day, as an individual with my own career, issues, personal life, family and business, do you really think I’d spend five minutes of my life wondering about what another bodybuilder is putting in his body? I can’t stop him, I more than likely don’t even know him …. so what’s the point of or the use of me having knowledge of what he is taking? I can’t use any information on drug use another person is doing and apply it to myself, as if we will achieve the exact same end result with two entirely different DNAs. I am Shawn Ray Productions, meaning my focus and energy goes into me and mine, and what works for me is a result of knowing my body— end of story. Yet there does seem to be a mistaken belief out there in the trenches that duplicating a specific person’s specific drug cycle will yield the exact same results in anyone, essentially giving you that person’s exact physique! That’s so off base it’s not even worth debating with anyone.

KL: I never knew what people used back in the day, and I don’t know what they use now either. I only know what I used and what worked for me. At some point, the receptors have to shut down. There has to be a point where only some of what is being taken is actually having an effect. You talk about guys allegedly using 10 grams of gear a week. Come on! That’s enough drugs for a 2,000-pound horse, not a 250-pound human. I don’t buy it. And if anyone really is using doses like that, they’re either not too bright, don’t care about their health one bit, or both.



Hold off on answering, Dorian, I want to add to that. One reason some have speculated that today’s bodybuilders use so much more is that the drugs now are often fake or terribly underdosed, whereas in the old days, gear was typically far more legitimate and potent. Do you agree or disagree?

DY: I do hear about very heavy doses being used nowadays. People come to me in the U.K. and Spain to be trained, and often they are on 5,000 milligrams a week or more of gear. That’s totally unnecessary. And I do believe the lower quality and potency of what’s around these days is part of it. In the ‘90s, everything we used was pharmaceutical grade. 250 milligrams of test was always 250 milligrams, and you didn’t have to worry that it was 200 or 100 milligrams. There was no black-market, underground gear yet. Now, it’s the total opposite. There is very little pharma-grade gear about; it’s almost all underground stuff made God-knows-where by God-knows-who. So how can you know what you’re really getting? Is it the drug it’s supposed to be? Is it the dose it claims to be on the label? I sincerely doubt it. There is far more profit to be made in substituting cheaper drugs and by underdosing products. I hear guys tell me they are on three of four grams of test a week. Bollocks! If you were really using that much test, your blood pressure would be through the roof and you would be retaining so much water you’d look like a blowfish.

SR: I personally think there is a lot of fake gear on the market, and the athletes fail to exercise their due diligence to test what they take to ensure the quality is accurate. However, I also know that the vast majority of bodybuilders today, both pro and amateur, start their careers using anabolic steroids without ever building a foundation or a firm base from which to build upon. Hence, if you start your bodybuilding off with the introduction of steroids, after the first phase of initial gains, you have nowhere to go as far as building upon “quality muscle” because it was all built synthetically. This leaves guys with bloat and swelling, but no real hardcore foundation of muscle that was built by the sweat of the brow! When we talk about the lack of muscle quality these days versus in days gone by, this factors in heavily.

KL: Steroids back then were higher quality. Fewer companies made them, and nearly all of them were major pharmaceutical companies. Syntex used to make Anadrol 2902 tabs that were 50 milligrams each and very strong. The stuff out there now can’t compare to it. The GH being used then was Humatrope by Eli Lilly, and it was the best. Now, people get it only from AIDS patients. Most guys use cheap Chinese crap that’s much weaker. The Winstrol V we used to use came in amps and would crystallize in the syringe. Now there are tons and tons of different drugs from so many underground labs I’ve never heard of. Guys try to ask me what I think of this or that drug, and rarely do I have any idea what they’re talking about. But I am sure the gear out there now is junk compared to what we had 20 years ago.

More BS from these guys haha

Only person naive to believe this sort of thing is mcway

[wes]

Sustanon is notorious for that. I can't explain why but after using gear consistently the post injection pain may go away. I recently did a few Sustanon and I didn't feel a thing. Now if I hit my thighs I usually feel it but I mostly do my glutes. I could theoretically do 2, 5cc shots per glute a week with no problems. One dorsogluteal and one ventrogluteal. That would be 20cc per week no problem. Ventrogluteal is when you go straight in at a 90 degree angle from the side under your hip bone. Might be the best spot but most use dorsogluteal.

Thanks Van,I appreciate as always.

[epic is back]

you gonna gear up and still compete boomer?

[ThisisOverload]

Sustanon is notorious for that. I can't explain why but after using gear consistently the post injection pain may go away. I recently did a few Sustanon and I didn't feel a thing. Now if I hit my thighs I usually feel it but I mostly do my glutes. I could theoretically do 2, 5cc shots per glute a week with no problems. One dorsogluteal and one ventrogluteal. That would be 20cc per week no problem. Ventrogluteal is when you go straight in at a 90 degree angle from the side under your hip bone. Might be the best spot but most use dorsogluteal.

I shoot the ventrogluteal every week, very easy and handles gear well.

I've shot 3cc's in there with no problems in the past.

Never shot more than 3cc in one area at a time, but i'm sure my glutes and quads could handle it.

[tommywishbone]

when do you compete royalty?


by the way


everyone has oil someplace

at that level anyway

im happy for the guy

he set a goal and accomplished it

Bingo.

Everyone.

[bhank]

you gonna gear up and still compete boomer?

He better do something

[Spike]

doesn’t walker work with a trainer out of NJ?


does his trainer work with any other pros ??

[Taffin]

doesn’t walker work with a trainer out of NJ?


does his trainer work with any other pros ??

His 'guru'/coach is that Matt Jansen fella - you may recall his name - he was Dallas McCarver's man too

Not sure who else he might be working with though

[wes]

you gonna gear up and still compete boomer?

I`ll be in Pittsburgh in Jiuly.

[Mothballs]

Oil free delts. Notice the striations

You literally posted a pic of Brandon where even Stevie Wonder can see his arms have been shot up with oil and the injection marks are still there! One shot isn’t going to destroy striations but hundreds add up and will eventually blur out the separation even if the peak continues to grow. People don’t realize guys didn’t have 23” arms back in the day regardless of what lies Arnold tells. Obvious oil use is evident in the front double bicep shots of Kuclo (blurry), Walker (peaky) Rhoden (blurry), Bonac (both). Older guys with obvious loads of junk were Dennis James (blurry), Cutler (both), Wheeler (both), and Martinez (both).

Van Bilderass is obviously the only guy in this thread with any actual knowledge. Everyone else sounds like a gullible fan who thought Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were natural 20 years ago.

[Vince B]

Sustanon is notorious for that. I can't explain why but after using gear consistently the post injection pain may go away. I recently did a few Sustanon and I didn't feel a thing. Now if I hit my thighs I usually feel it but I mostly do my glutes. I could theoretically do 2, 5cc shots per glute a week with no problems. One dorsogluteal and one ventrogluteal. That would be 20cc per week no problem. Ventrogluteal is when you go straight in at a 90 degree angle from the side under your hip bone. Might be the best spot but most use dorsogluteal.

Why on earth on you still using so much gear? Sad to see so many Getbiggers fooling around with dangerous crap.

[Flexacon]

You literally posted a pic of Brandon where even Stevie Wonder can see his arms have been shot up with oil and the injection marks are still there! One shot isn’t going to destroy striations but hundreds add up and will eventually blur out the separation even if the peak continues to grow. People don’t realize guys didn’t have 23” arms back in the day regardless of what lies Arnold tells. Obvious oil use is evident in the front double bicep shots of Kuclo (blurry), Walker (peaky) Rhoden (blurry), Bonac (both). Older guys with obvious loads of junk were Dennis James (blurry), Cutler (both), Wheeler (both), and Martinez (both).

Van Bilderass is obviously the only guy in this thread with any actual knowledge. Everyone else sounds like a gullible fan who thought Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were natural 20 years ago.

I talk about his delts and you post about his arms and how "injection marks are still there!" and no one on here knowing anything. That's actually lipoma on his arm which he's had forever. And it's us who know nothing right 

[Van_Bilderass]

Why on earth on you still using so much gear? Sad to see so many Getbiggers fooling around with dangerous crap.

I don't use that much, just saying what's doable theoretically.
And the gear is an addiction, we can admit that. You just feel more positive with high androgen levels. I don't look like a big juiced up bb but I just feel better, strong. This week I did 2cc of test and 75mg of tren hex. Oh yes, someone gave me some dbol and halo for free so I took 25mg dbol and 10mg halo preworkout. Dbol is one hell of a mood booster. Better sleep and everything 

I could look almost the same with 200mg of test, a high "HRT" dose, but when you have bunch of stufff in your gearbox the temptation is there to take a bit more.

[bhank]

20 years ago underground gear would crash out and you would have to reheat it to melt the Crystals ain’t no one was shooting 5cc of that garbage

[Van_Bilderass]

20 years ago underground gear would crash out and you would have to reheat it to melt the Crystals ain’t no one was shooting 5cc of that garbage

A friend of mine just gave back 5 bottles of crashed Masteron to his dealer, didn't know what the hell was up with that. I told him he was stupid, if it crashed with gobs of crystals on the bottom of the vial it just mean it contained a lot of hormone  I had no problems with such gear. I only once ever had a problem with a certain brand that was crazy painful, I think it contained too many solvents. Today most of the gear I have sampled is great and pain free, even some 400mg test.

[epic is back]

I`ll be in Pittsburgh in Jiuly.

you might go watch but we know in your physical condition it isnt feesable to go on gear again and compete

your much older

smaller and what would happen? you resume being lightweight giant killer?

but you cant even win your class as ive seen from your contest history?

it isnt lining up broham

[youandme]

Walker looked good. He’s not a typical new age pro that slacks. Picked fun of him for not doing foud’s show so he could concentrate on training and sleeping but I ate my words, he’s dedicated.

[wes]

you might go watch but we know in your physical condition it isnt feesable to go on gear again and compete

your much older

smaller and what would happen? you resume being lightweight giant killer?

but you cant even win your class as ive seen from your contest history?

it isnt lining up broham

Hey pal,you can think whatever the you want to,but I`m training with the mindset of winning my class,but placing in the top 5 will suit me just fine......biggest masters contest in the country .....I`ll fit in up there no problem.

You act like I`m gonna` compete againt Arnold.....everyone in my class will be over 60 years old and weigh approximately the same bodyweight as me.

I don`t think it would be wise on my part to try to bulk up to superheavy at 67 years of age. 

I know you`re not gonna` enter so buy a ticket and come watch my show. 

[Humble Narcissist]

I don't use that much, just saying what's doable theoretically.
And the gear is an addiction, we can admit that. You just feel more positive with high androgen levels. I don't look like a big juiced up bb but I just feel better, strong. This week I did 2cc of test and 75mg of tren hex. Oh yes, someone gave me some dbol and halo for free so I took 25mg dbol and 10mg halo preworkout. Dbol is one hell of a mood booster. Better sleep and everything 

I could look almost the same with 200mg of test, a high "HRT" dose, but when you have bunch of stufff in your gearbox the temptation is there to take a bit more.

How easy is it to get Dbol?

[Van_Bilderass]

How easy is it to get Dbol?

I'm in Europe but dbol is all over. It has such a nice antidepressant, almost euphoric feel to it, though like with anything it doesn't agree with everyone. Whenever I use dbol it feels so nice to go to sleep, hard to explain but it feels like your dopamine is pumping

My dbols came in an unmarked bottle. Dealer hadn't put labels on them yet. Gotta trust the source. But I feel I can tell within 2 days if it's dbol or something else 

[Humble Narcissist]

I'm in Europe but dbol is all over. It has such a nice antidepressant, almost euphoric feel to it, though like with anything it doesn't agree with everyone. Whenever I use dbol it feels so nice to go to sleep, hard to explain but it feels like your dopamine is pumping

My dbols came in an unmarked bottle. Dealer hadn't put labels on them yet. Gotta trust the source. But I feel I can tell within 2 days if it's dbol or something else 

It sucks that we can't get it legally in the states.

[NotMrAverage]

Definitly oil in delts. But not all out. Its two bottles delts and two in arms I would say.

[robcguns]

A friend of mine just gave back 5 bottles of crashed Masteron to his dealer, didn't know what the hell was up with that. I told him he was stupid, if it crashed with gobs of crystals on the bottom of the vial it just mean it contained a lot of hormone  I had no problems with such gear. I only once ever had a problem with a certain brand that was crazy painful, I think it contained too many solvents. Today most of the gear I have sampled is great and pain free, even some 400mg test.

You just brought me back, I remember I got a few bottles of denkall test 400 about 20 years ago and the pin was so brutal. I did glute shots but couldn’t sit down, so then I did tri shots and the swelling was great and didn’t hurt as much.

[pellius]

20 years ago underground gear would crash out and you would have to reheat it to melt the Crystals ain’t no one was shooting 5cc of that garbage

Hmm, and you claim you never use any hormones or PEDs yet you seem to know a lot of inside info from the last 20 years.