Author Topic: 2008 thread has returned  (Read 5247 times)

Hedgehog

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2008, 08:59:09 AM »
There's no downside to more efficient motors (except for the oil companies).  I'm all for that.
I don't think anyone knows the exact benefits of increasing our supply of oil from Alaska, but I'll bet it would be significant.  Supply & demand economics.

Well, perhaps bio-fuel isn't exactly right...any type of fuel which is eco-friendly and reduces our reliance on oil and the middle east.

Efficient motors have been held back by a (relatively) low gas price.

Countries with no own oil production have been much faster in developing gas effective cars.

I think Bush had been smart, he would've taxed gas higher years ago and put those tax money into the development of an alternative infrastructure.

Because public transportation like subway systems and intercity railways aren't really top notch today in the USA.
As empty as paradise

youandme

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2008, 10:39:42 AM »
There's no downside to more efficient motors (except for the oil companies).  I'm all for that.
I don't think anyone knows the exact benefits of increasing our supply of oil from Alaska, but I'll bet it would be significant.  Supply & demand economics.

Well, perhaps bio-fuel isn't exactly right...any type of fuel which is eco-friendly and reduces our reliance on oil and the middle east.

I think they do know the EXACT benefits on increasing the supply from Alaska or else it would not even be on the table for discussion. Bio Fuel is not eco friendly and uses more oil to produce it then what it is even worth.

Enough with reliance, we need to take, because the middle east would be a crater if it were not for the US Britain, and France after WWI and WWII.

Gavin Laird

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2008, 11:42:05 PM »
Reality is this:

People have been building more efficient engines for years, but the automakers refuse to use the technology. 

Edit: "...American automakers refuse to use the technology because American consumers don't / won't buy it".

I get 50 miles per gallon from what over here (UK) is considered a big engine (3,000cc). My wife gets almost 70mpg in a 998cc. Now, in US a 3 litre engine is not a "large" engine...it's tiny. And is there anyone driving a 998cc car in US ? Or even a 1.1 litre? Or even a 1.3? I NEVER see a small car over there.

G

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2008, 12:53:40 AM »
There's no downside to more efficient motors (except for the oil companies).  I'm all for that.

There is existing technology (ferrous-oxide combustion catalysts) that increases the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. There are those however, whose agendas for whatever reason, do not want people to know about them.

Quote
I don't think anyone knows the exact benefits of increasing our supply of oil from Alaska, but I'll bet it would be significant.  Supply & demand economics.

It would be significant, about 1 million barrels a day, however, oil companies naturally do not want the population consuming less of their product. Through ferrous oxide combustion catalysts, the equivalent amount or more of imported oil is not consumed. This would save Americans considerable amounts, and decrease her dependance on foreign oil, by 1 million barrels a day, without risking the destruction of the environment or the Arctic Wildlife National Refuge.

Quote
Well, perhaps bio-fuel isn't exactly right...any type of fuel which is eco-friendly and reduces our reliance on oil and the middle east.

At the moment, ferrous oxide combustion catalysts make the use of oil eco-friendly, until such time as a more sustainable and renewable alternative form of energy can be found and incorporated into the infrastructure of society.
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Slapper

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2008, 10:50:39 AM »
All bullshit aside, they say that a picture is worth a thousand words...



Go here.

What ya think?! Who youh dadde?!

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2008, 11:24:01 PM »

All bullshit aside, they say that a picture is worth a thousand words...


I agree

w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2008, 12:53:15 AM »
I agree


We all made the call together. We disagree on a lot of things, but stand united on this call ;)  and that's something I never wanted to hear myself say!  Oh and you're probably going to have a hard time finding sympathy with your toons because we don't want your spam or breadcrumb trail to spam on the board...  Maybe you can hold some cute puppy hostage and threaten to boil it if we don't comply  ::)

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2008, 01:26:22 AM »
  Maybe you can hold some cute puppy hostage and threaten to boil it if we don't comply  ::)

This little guy's fate is in your hands

w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2008, 01:41:16 AM »
terrorist.

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2008, 01:48:11 AM »
w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2008, 02:40:16 AM »
Bush Loving Nazi Terrorist.

OzmO

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2008, 06:39:12 AM »


HEHEHEHEHEHEEH


My first belly laugh of the day!   And it's only 6:30am  !!!!

War-Horse

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2008, 07:31:22 AM »
Edit: "...American automakers refuse to use the technology because American consumers don't / won't buy it".

I get 50 miles per gallon from what over here (UK) is considered a big engine (3,000cc). My wife gets almost 70mpg in a 998cc. Now, in US a 3 litre engine is not a "large" engine...it's tiny. And is there anyone driving a 998cc car in US ? Or even a 1.1 litre? Or even a 1.3? I NEVER see a small car over there.

G




In the US we have motorcycles that have 2000cc     But i have thought of finding a lite car and putting a 1000cc motorcycle motor in it.   Easily 70mpg id imagine.     Most americans will be forced to soon get creative with transportation as the fuel cost will soon catch up to europes pricing....... :-[

shootfighter1

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2008, 07:32:39 AM »
Good points jag.  I'm not familiar with the ferrous oxide catalysts, but anything is worth exploring at this point.
Its going to take some very strong officials to go up against oil companies to force us to improve the efficiency of engines and explore other real fuel options.

Gavin, your right, American's traditionally like larger vehicles...but SUV sales in the past couple months have dropped and hybrid sales have increased.  People in the US typically have to drive a lot more than in Europe because everything is so spread out here (plus public transportation is not nearly as efficient).  Nonetheless, people should downsize to some degree.


Option D

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2008, 07:54:30 AM »
You dont think that if Big Oil is taxed that they will pass thay down to the consumer in order to keep their net high?

Just a thought

Obama May Levy $15 Billion Tax on Oil Company Profit...

May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal for a windfall profits tax on oil companies could cost $15 billion a year at last year's profit levels, a campaign adviser said.

The plan would target profit from the biggest oil companies by taxing each barrel of oil costing more than $80, according to a fact sheet on the proposal. The tax would help pay for a $1,000 tax cut for working families, an expansion of the earned- income tax credit and assistance for people who can't afford their energy bills.

``The profits right now are so remarkable that one could trim them 10 percent or so, which would turn out to be somewhere in the $15 billion range,'' said Jason Grumet, an adviser to the Obama campaign.

Obama's plan may be three times larger than the $50 billion, 10-year plan contemplated by his Democratic rival, New York Senator Hillary Clinton. Republican candidate John McCain, an Arizona senator, has no plan to raise oil and gas industry taxes, said his economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Oil companies would still have ample reason to ``continue to pursue production, while at the same time providing relief to consumers,'' Grumet said.

A flurry of energy proposals from presidential candidates and lawmakers has come after crude oil futures prices reached $119.93 a barrel on April 28. Retail gasoline prices hit a record $3.603 a gallon this week, according to the U.S. Energy Department.



Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2008, 08:33:37 AM »



In the US we have motorcycles that have 2000cc     But i have thought of finding a lite car and putting a 1000cc motorcycle motor in it.   Easily 70mpg id imagine.     Most americans will be forced to soon get creative with transportation as the fuel cost will soon catch up to europes pricing....... :-[

Dumbass.. the weight alone with lower mpg near 40 or less.

War-Horse

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2008, 08:37:16 AM »
Dumbass.. the weight alone with lower mpg near 40 or less.




You assuming the materials for my car are you? 

Poor lil bastard has another day to go thru.... :-\

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2008, 08:57:34 AM »



You assuming the materials for my car are you? 

Poor lil bastard has another day to go thru.... :-\

I forgot.. your "kind" are still trying to drive wooden cars.  :P

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2008, 12:10:25 PM »
HEHEHEHEHEHEEH


My first belly laugh of the day!   And it's only 6:30am  !!!!

Glad I could add some humour to your day, ...
...cause I know you won't be laughing later in the day as you fill up your gas tank.   ;D
w

OzmO

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2008, 01:34:19 PM »
Glad I could add some humour to your day, ...
...cause I know you won't be laughing later in the day as you fill up your gas tank.   ;D

Well it's either that, which doesn't affect me much, or pestering people all day long.   :D

shootfighter1

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2008, 02:04:24 PM »
big mal, your exactly right.  Obama's plan for taxing oil company profits isn't a good idea either.  It will be passed on to the consumer.  The only sensible plan is to increase supplies safely and encourage the technology for a new fuel material. 
Increasing nuclear power is also a good option.  There are experts that believe this is much better than burning coal and using oil.

24KT

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2008, 02:22:21 PM »

Good points jag.  I'm not familiar with the ferrous oxide catalysts, but anything is worth exploring at this point.
Its going to take some very strong officials to go up against oil companies to force us to improve the efficiency of engines and explore other real fuel options.

Shootfighter1,

A catalyst is something that initiates a response. In chemistry, it is a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected. Ferrous is simply the chemical name for iron.

What ferrous oxide catalysts do is to cause a change in what is called the "in-cylinder rate shaping" of the combustion of fuel. This, in turn, provides for a 30% increase in pressure on the down stroke of the piston, in a time frame slightly altered from a non-catalyzed state. It speeds up the burn of fossil fuels. ie: gasoline or diesel etc.,

In the 1970's when lead was removed and banned from gasoline, the oil companies signed off on adding any type of metal to the fuel. Iron is a form of metal and therefore prohibited from being added by the oil companies. IMO it's probably not something they would want to add it even if they were permitted to do so. Ferrous oxide catalysts are a continuation of the hydrocracking process used by the refineries to make the fuel. The process cannot be continued by the refineries because it would make the fuel too unstable for transport or storage.  By continuing the process in the combustion chamber, the catalyst breaks down the primary components of the fuel just prior to ignition so the combustion process is started as the spark is applied, and causes the fuel burn to complete within the cylinder itself. You get a burning of fuel in the cylinder where you need the power, without the afterburn or unburned hydrocarbons going into the exhaust valves.

If you were to light gasoline in a 10" X 100' vacuum tube, it would take 7 seconds to burn through to the other end.

In a standard automobile, the exhaust valves open up, and you see the fuel still burning as it's going out the exhaust.

If any of you have ever watched NASCAR, or seen race cars etc., you see flames shooting out the exhaust. If you were to remove the exhaust manifold on your own vehicles, you'd see the same thing. This is because the rate at which your fuel is burned, is not fast enough for the fuel to complete it's burn within the combustion chamber itself. The exhaust valves open up, and the fuel is still burning as it's going out the exhaust. Your vehicle is not getting the benefit of all the fuel that has been put into it. Simply put, ...you're wasting fuel.

If you were to light gasoline containing a ferrous oxide catalyst in a 10" X 100' vacuum tube, the catalyst continues the hydrocracking process, breaking out the free hydrogen in the fuel, creating a hydrogen fuse, and when you mix the two together, the hydrogen fuse brings the combustion of the entire mixture along with it. As a result, it would take 2 seconds to burn through to the other end.

The burn occurs during the first 20 - 30 degrees of the crank, and the combustion is completed by the time it gets to the bottom of the power stroke, before the exhaust valves open up.

This results in more power to the engine, as well as a more efficient burn to the fuel itself. Because you now have all the fuel burning within the combustion chamber, rather than burning out the exhaust. The benefit is two-fold. In addition to a more efficient burn, increased mileage, and less fuel consumed, ...you also see a dramatic reduction in pollutants and specifically NOx.

Nitrogen + Oxygen = NOx.

NOx is the precursor for both smog and acid-rain, and it comes from automobile exhaust.
It is both temperature dependant, as well as time dependant.

By speeding up the rate of the fuel burn, NOx is not permitted sufficient time to form.

The end result of using a ferrous oxide catalyst is that the fuel in your tank takes you even further.
Merely getting an additional 3 or 4 miles per gallon of increased mileage will reduce America's consumption of fuel by 1 million barrels a day, which is the same amount that the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge could produce at best.

The overall result is improved mileage, less fuel consumed, less foreign oil imported, a longer lasting, more efficient engine, and a dramatic decrease in smog & acid-rain precursors, environmental pollution, climate change gasses and fuel costs.


Quote
Gavin, your right, American's traditionally like larger vehicles...but SUV sales in the past couple months have dropped and hybrid sales have increased.  People in the US typically have to drive a lot more than in Europe because everything is so spread out here (plus public transportation is not nearly as efficient).  Nonetheless, people should downsize to some degree.


As much as I'd love to see it, I don't think downsizing is as practical a solution as we'd all want it to be.
Granted some SUV's are merely vanity statements, ...but for some families, a mini-van is a must, ..especially in this neck of the woods. Try getting the kids off to hockey practice and loading up all that equipment in your SMART car?  :D

Society's infrastructure is such where the internal combustion engine and the burning of fossil fuels will be with us for quite some time. Until such time as alternative sources of energy, and/or more fuel efficient engines that don't increase pollution, and drive up food prices are designed, ...the solution is imo to use a ferrous oxide combustion catalyst.
w

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama FINALLY taking on Big Oil
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2011, 01:41:14 PM »
Obama May Levy $15 Billion Tax on Oil Company Profit...

May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal for a windfall profits tax on oil companies could cost $15 billion a year at last year's profit levels, a campaign adviser said.

The plan would target profit from the biggest oil companies by taxing each barrel of oil costing more than $80, according to a fact sheet on the proposal. The tax would help pay for a $1,000 tax cut for working families, an expansion of the earned- income tax credit and assistance for people who can't afford their energy bills.

``The profits right now are so remarkable that one could trim them 10 percent or so, which would turn out to be somewhere in the $15 billion range,'' said Jason Grumet, an adviser to the Obama campaign.

Obama's plan may be three times larger than the $50 billion, 10-year plan contemplated by his Democratic rival, New York Senator Hillary Clinton. Republican candidate John McCain, an Arizona senator, has no plan to raise oil and gas industry taxes, said his economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Oil companies would still have ample reason to ``continue to pursue production, while at the same time providing relief to consumers,'' Grumet said.

A flurry of energy proposals from presidential candidates and lawmakers has come after crude oil futures prices reached $119.93 a barrel on April 28. Retail gasoline prices hit a record $3.603 a gallon this week, according to the U.S. Energy Department.




Yeah - you voted for bob Barr.   ::)