Abortion...

[bears]

First, learn how to quote. It's not rocket science.

" the male who played an integral role in fertilization has no choice? what about the child...no choice?"

None, nadda, zip.

"horrible logic which makes zero sense"

Perfectly logical.
 
", should they allow us free reign in regards to what we do with anothers body?"

Talk about goofy faulty logic...

"so you believe a fetus has rights?"

Nope. For me, if it's in my body, attached to my body, growing in my body, my rights trump any others period. Once outside my body/does not rely on my body directly for survival, it has rights as a living human being. You cant try and twist it anyway you want, use 4th grader semantics, etc, it will not change.

I would like to see more funds and effort into reducing pregnancy rates, which would lead to less abortions. Funds for education (which correlates well to reduced unwanted teen pregnancy rates) and other measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy which = less abortion. These measures are exactly what has been cut back on by the current anti abortion administration. I would like to see anyone who is anti abortion forced to adopt those kids sitting in adoption homes unwanted. How many have YOU personally adopted while telling women they have to keep them? My guess, like 99.9% of anti abortion types, would be none.

All talk from your comp, no actual personal work or experience helping to prevent pregnancy, etc, etc. I at least have done some volunteer work in clinics and such.

I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies, and funds and effort put to that end, which will = less abortions. We have far too many of them in this country. However, at the end of the day, the womens rights to her own body trump all others.

first of all, we've dumped an absolute ton of money into sex education and abstinence programs under the bush administration for our kids.  does it work?  i dont know.  maybe.  personally, i think its the parents responsibility, not the governments.  i also think people have to stop bullshitting themselves too about this issue.  condoms suck.  kids learn that.  we give the pill to teens.  they dont always take it the way they should.  you know why?  they're fuckin stupid ass teenagers thats why.  like ive said before and i'll say it again, as long as we have people who dont love eachother having sex, there will be tons of unwanted pregnancies.  thats just the way it is.  abortion is now an option.  about 2 million girls a year are going to use that option.  period.  it not gonna change.  Everyone knows how to use a fucking condom now ok?  if your kid needs to be shown how to use it at school hes too fucking stupid to be having sex anyway.  

i agree with you that idealogues do not belong in voters booths but for the posters on this board to try and insinuate that the idealogues are only on the right is plain stupid and outs those posters as idealogues themselves.

abortion isnt going anywhere so dont worry.  the politicians from the left wont even pass laws to protect babies who survive abortion because they're scared of the slippery slope effect it will have on overturning roe v wade.

the one thing that really concerns me is our boys growing up in this country.  they will grow up in a country where people who are against abortion are treated like lunatics, patted on the head like invalids and sent on their way.  they grow up in a world where irresponsible sex is glorified in everything they see, hear, and read in our popular media.    then when they get a girl pregnant and suggest an abortion (because they see 2 million girls a year doing it) they are called evil.  i think the boys growing up in this country have a lot of confusion to sort through with regards to sexual morality.  

[bears]

yea lets over turn Roe vs. wade..then get rid of welfare..talk about a serious spike in crime..you have people that can't support the kid in the first place so they want to abort.but they can't because bible beating Christians want to push there beliefs and ideals on them.so then what?they have the kid and give it up to adoption.how long would it take before we have orphanages that are as big as prison's full of unwanted children.

that my friend is communist thinking at its finest.

[big L dawg]

that my friend is communist thinking at its finest.

how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.

[Cap]

Changing welfare regulations is the only way to exert the social pressure that would slow unwanted pregnancies.

I agree whole-heartedly.  I genuinely feel bad for a baby that is aborted and babies in foster care.  Poor people can get free condoms but they know the system pays per kid.  I also think that both safe sex and abstinence need to be taught, which is one issue I disagree with Bush on.  We teach about STDs but not about condoms (so I've heard) which I think is dumb.  They need to pass out flyers to as many people as possible telling them what is up.  I think free condoms is cheaper than more welfare and foster care but what do I know....

My problems is the twenty or so girls I met in college having multiple abortions because they can't keep their legs closed/take the pill/use a condom.  To me that is wrong and irresponsible and we perpetuate that behavior because they know they can just go get another abortion.  I honestly hope these women cannot have children when they are actually ready; you know...visit from the Karma Fairy.

[Hereford]

Alot of welfares have the kids ONLY because of the increased payoff.

I'd bet very little of the $$$ handed to welfare mommas ever goes toward the good of the child.

[Buffgeek]

the poor religious republicans...

they give 10% of their $ to a business called a church each week already.

they have no problem letting the rich keep more. 

I was driving through seattle the other week and drove by numerous christian missions feeding homeless and sheltering them.

I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.

[big L dawg]

I was driving through seattle the other week and drove by numerous christian missions feeding homeless and sheltering them.

I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.

thats one way cults draw you in

[timfogarty]

I missed all of the athiest missions tho. hmm guess I will have to look harder next time.

you must really have blinders on to not recognize all the charitable organizations not affiliated with any church or religion.

[bears]

how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.

huh?

[bears]

how so? Mr 52 post come to a bodybuilding web site to talk abortion finger pointer.

if you read that post again and you dont think that it reeks of communism then there is no hope for you and may god have mercy on your soul.

[drkaje]

Personally, I don't feel any law that prevents doctors from giving care to a failed abortion makes sense. If it comes out alive all bets are off but who knows what kind of brain damage it might have.

[CQ]

you must really have blinders on to not recognize all the charitable organizations not affiliated with any church or religion.

People see what they want, and willingly don't see things.

[big L dawg]

if you read that post again and you dont think that it reeks of communism then there is no hope for you and may god have mercy on your soul.

I don't fear what is non existent.there is no god.However I think u misinterpreted my post I was speaking hypothetically.

[CQ]

Alot of welfares have the kids ONLY because of the increased payoff.

I would have to agree, having lived in nations with welfare and one without. Here you can have 15 kids, you get the same amount as someone with 1 kid - nothing.

It's a whole different ballgame, we still have our tiny segment of teen moms etc, but statistically are well, well under nations with welfare and the attitude is different. My time living and interacting in the US and UK showed me a whole differing perspective.

[bears]

I don't fear what is non existent.there is no god.However I think u misinterpreted my post I was speaking hypothetically.

i think you were quite clear in that post.  you feel that our system would be overburdened by the aborted babies had they been allowed to live. 

[big L dawg]

i think you were quite clear in that post.  you feel that our system would be overburdened by the aborted babies had they been allowed to live. 

and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.

[bears]

and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.

right.  you think abortion is imperative to maintaining the status quo.  i understand that.  there are other ways other than abortion you know  .  how about we change our behavior as individuals, families, communities and countries?  then maybe we wont have to kill babies to maintain status quo.  do you understand how dangerous your line if thinking is?  what happens when we take it a step further?  you know how much of a financial relief our health care system would experience if we didnt have to keep elderly invalids alive?  that is what communist thinking is at its worst but i think you get the picture.

[timfogarty]

and you didn't respond to the question.the fact is there are orphanages all over the country that are filled with kids that are not being adopted.My question was.How long would it take if roe vs. wade was overturned before these orphanages were the size of prisons filled with unwanted kids.

first, there are very few orphanages left in this country.  they were replaced with the foster care system.  it's suppose to be a little bit more one-on-one.

second, overturning roe would not end abortion.  overturning roe would mean state law would go into effect.  maybe half of all states would outlaw abortion.  that just means the rich and middle class would travel to other states to have them and the poor would turn to back alleys.

want to reduce the number of abortions?  teach and make available on demand better birth control

[Colossus_500]

People see what they want, and willingly don't see things.

Very true, CQ.  True, true, true!

[big L dawg]

right.  you think abortion is imperative to maintaining the status quo.  i understand that.  there are other ways other than abortion you know  .  how about we change our behavior as individuals, families, communities and countries?  then maybe we wont have to kill babies to maintain status quo.  do you understand how dangerous your line if thinking is?  what happens when we take it a step further?  you know how much of a financial relief our health care system would experience if we didnt have to keep elderly invalids alive?  that is what communist thinking is at its worst but i think you get the picture.

this is how I feel.he was a smart man.

[bears]

this is how I feel.he was a smart man.

Hey i loved george carlin too but come on.  That was just one of his silly rants.  Its meant to get laughs from liberal college kids, not to actually make some poignant statement on the abortion issue. If you really listen to what hes saying all he really does is use a long stream of ad hominem arguments.  These arguments dazzle young college kids but they dont (and shouldn't) hold any water for mature, rational adults.  Keep in mind that i've seen almost all of his routines and i love the guy.  he was one of the best.   

[bears]

by the way this was the best part of that routine.  i saw him my first year of college do this exact routine. hilarious.

[Necrosis]

pro life religious are bigots. Whats funny is that people like coach,radical christians etc.. have actually murdered doctors as a means to an end to save unborn life, they are PRO-LIFE. what fails to dawn on them is that they have actually taken life of a person who probably has a family, friends and has worked hard his entire life to improve others.

what these idiots dont realize is that when most babies are aborted within the first three months, most earlier, they are not living beings. They cannot feel pain as the nervous system is not fully operational and are no more life then an initial zygote or 16 cell morula. Surely they are on there way to being life but this does not equate life, obviously not because it cannot live on its own.These guys also should realize that everytime we masturbate, have protected sex or even resist our urge to copulate we are denying the possible birth of a child, we are anti life. Why do they think a 12 week fetus is further living then a unfertilized egg that is randomly aborted? is it the look of the unliving?

conception should be outlawed if you are pro-life as we are denying the formation of life.

it is the womans choice as well, it is not a seperate entity until birth, it is actively part of the woman, im sure none of the pro life people have any knowledge of embryology and realize this.

[CQ]

pro life religious are bigots. Whats funny is that people like coach,radical christians etc.. have actually murdered doctors as a means to an end to save unborn life, they are PRO-LIFE. what fails to dawn on them is that they have actually taken life of a person who probably has a family, friends and has worked hard his entire life to improve others.

I think the killing of doctors is terrible of course, but must say I don't think Coach has done that in his defense.

[Necrosis]

I think the killing of doctors is terrible of course, but must say I don't think Coach has done that in his defense.

no but pro life people have taken life. This is the kind of mind we are dealing with.