" All-loving God "

[The_Iron_Disciple]

Here's my question for all of you so-called Christians ... 

Why did " God " create such Chaos in a World if " he's " all-loving " ? You may answer, " Well, Iron Disciple, God gave man " Freewill " so THAT'S why there's so much chaos in the World. " I call, " Bullshit ! " and here's why. God has the ability to see ALL THINGS so it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to think that " he " could see right into the future. So why would an " all-loving " God approve of Children getting raped and killed ??

If you want my honest opinion on the matter then let me say this ... I think that God and the Devil are one and the same. I look foward to your replies.

[loco]

Here's my question for all of you so-called Christians ... 

I look foward to your replies.

Yes, you "so-called Christians", I look forward to your replies too.   

[Oldschool Flip]

So do Christians here believe that the killings yesterday were a call from God to the deceased? Or just a crazy person killing for whatever reason he saw fit?

[Butterbean]

Here's my question for all of you so-called Christians ... 

Why did " God " create such Chaos in a World if " he's " all-loving "

Not too sure what a "so-called" Christian is 

When God created the world it was a perfect place.   He didn't create a chaotic world.

God has the ability to see ALL THINGS so it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to think that " he " could see right into the future. So why would an " all-loving " God approve of Children getting raped and killed ??

I don't think "approve" would be the correct word here.  But I do think the word "allow" could be used in it's place.  I do believe as you stated that God can see all things.  I also believe He has the ability to stop things from happening.  Sometimes He doesn't stop horrible things from happening.  I don't know why.

If you want my honest opinion on the matter then let me say this ... I think that God and the Devil are one and the same. I look foward to your replies.

This is interesting ID.  Did you grow up believing that?  If so, is there a specific religion that teaches it?  I'd like to hear more info on that if you would like to share.

So do Christians here believe that the killings yesterday were a call from God to the deceased?

Hi OzmO!  Not sure what you are asking here?  Are you asking if it was their appointed time by God to die?

[Oldschool Flip]

Hi OzmO!  Not sure what you are asking here?  Are you asking if it was their appointed time by God to die?

OzmO? STella me and OzmO are 2 different people. My question was pertaining that when people say it's your time to go, it's your time. Is that determined by God?

[Butterbean]

OzmO? STella me and OzmO are 2 different people. My question was pertaining that when people say it's your time to go, it's your time. Is that determined by God?

Oops!  I know you and OzmO are 2 diff. people...I think I was on the phone and not paying attention like I should have.  Sorry about that Oldschool! 


I'm not sure if everyone's time is determined by God to die.  I do believe He knows when, where and how everyone will die but I'm not sure if he determines the actual time and method. 

It's a good question.  I would like to hear loco's and others thoughts on this.

[loco]

I'm not sure if everyone's time is determined by God to die.  I do believe He knows when, where and how everyone will die but I'm not sure if he determines the actual time and method. 

I agree with Stella.  God knows everything, but it doesn't mean that He always determines when and how everybody will die.  He may some times**, but not all the time.  He gives us free will.  Our good and bad choices sometimes affect multitudes and generations to come, in a good or in a bad way.  In His infinite wisdom, God intervenes whichever way He wants to, to the extent that He wants to and as much or as little as he wants to intervene.

Who is to say that instead of 30+ victims in this shooting, there were really going to be 60+ had God not intervened?  Who knows?

**1 Samuel 28:18-19
"Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me."

[Tre]

When God created the world it was a perfect place.   He didn't create a chaotic world.

But why did he make the decision to make sin mandatory while at the same time telling people they should not commit sins?

That's a recipe for chaos, is it not?

[Tre]

I do believe as you stated that God can see all things.  I also believe He has the ability to stop things from happening.  Sometimes He doesn't stop horrible things from happening.  I don't know why.

Because he isn't really everywhere, after all.  He's only in some places and he didn't think he needed to be at Va Tech on Monday.

[loco]

But why did he make the decision to make sin mandatory

God made sin mandatory?  No, He didn't.  God made "avoiding sin" mandatory.

[loco]

Because he isn't really everywhere, after all.  He's only in some places and he didn't think he needed to be at Va Tech on Monday.

Tre,
So you do believe that God exists?  However, you believe that God cannot be everywhere at the same time?

[Colossus_500]

I agree with Stella.  God knows everything, but it doesn't mean that He always determines when and how everybody will die.  He may some times**, but not all the time.  He gives us free will.  Our good and bad choices sometimes affect multitudes and generations to come, in a good or in a bad way.  In His infinite wisdom, God intervenes whichever way He wants to, to the extent that He wants to and as much or as little as he wants to intervene.

Who is to say that instead of 30+ victims in this shooting, there were really going to be 60+ had God not intervened?  Who knows?

**1 Samuel 28:18-19
"Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me."

I agree with both Stella and Loco.  If I may expound on the highlighted portion of what Loco was saying.  I know you want to call BS on the free will part of life, but bro, that's what it comes down too.  Free will represents the good and evil, or the right and wrong of what goes on in our world.  We all have the capacity to do either.  Case in point... It was Cho Seung-Hui's decision (free-will) to take the many lives that he did.  It was also professor Liviu Librescu's decision (free will) to give his own life for the sake of his students...the perfect representation of good and evil, or right and wrong, but both are products of free will.   

[loco]

Free will represents the good and evil, or the right and wrong of what goes on in our world.  We all have the capacity to do either.  Case in point... It was Cho Seung-Hui's decision (free-will) to take the many lives that he did.  It was also professor Liviu Librescu's decision (free will) to give his own life for the sake of his students...the perfect representation of good and evil, or right and wrong, but both are products of free will.   

Good point, Colossus!

[OzmO]

It is our choices that determine how we grow.

That's where free will comes in.  It is a gift from GOD. 

when we chose the road less traveled we often grow, when we chose the easy way out, like this guy in Virginia, we don't grow.

So in a sense , GOD has given us the gift of choosing to grow spiritually.

God is with us always and there anytime we call on him.  All of our hairs are counted so to speak.   

[Oldschool Flip]

I agree with Stella.  God knows everything, but it doesn't mean that He always determines when and how everybody will die.  He may some times**, but not all the time.  He gives us free will.  Our good and bad choices sometimes affect multitudes and generations to come, in a good or in a bad way.   In His infinite wisdom, God intervenes whichever way He wants to, to the extent that He wants to and as much or as little as he wants to intervene.

But the people that died just made a choice to go to class. They didn't HAVE a choice to live or die. I'm sure if they did they would want to live. So again, is this a call from God? I'm don't believe so only because IMO a "loving God" wouldn't allow good people to die. Now if they weren't Christians and didn't accept Jesus as their Savior, since this is the only way to Heaven according to the Bible, then would God say it doesn't matter then?

[loco]

It is our choices that determine how we grow.

That's where free will comes in.  It is a gift from GOD. 

when we chose the road less traveled we often grow, when we chose the easy way out, like this guy in Virginia, we don't grow.

So in a sense , GOD has given us the gift of choosing to grow spiritually.

God is with us always and there anytime we call on him.  All of our hairs are counted so to speak.   

Darn good post, Ozmo!   

[loco]

But the people that died just made a choice to go to class. They didn't HAVE a choice to live or die. I'm sure if they did they would want to live. So again, is this a call from God? I'm don't believe so only because IMO a "loving God" wouldn't allow good people to die. Now if they weren't Christians and didn't accept Jesus as their Savior, since this is the only way to Heaven according to the Bible, then would God say it doesn't matter then?

God gives us free will.  Our good and bad choices sometimes affect multitudes and generations to come, in a good or in a bad way.

[OzmO]

Darn good post, Ozmo!   

thanks loco.   

[Tre]

God made sin mandatory?  No, He didn't.  God made "avoiding sin" mandatory.

Yes, sin is mandatory. 

The fall of Adam was one of god's many 'gifts' to man, correct?

[Tre]

Tre,
So you do believe that God exists?  However, you believe that God cannot be everywhere at the same time?

I don't really believe in God, but I'm hedging my bets by living a good life, just in case.

[Tre]

It is our choices that determine how we grow.

That's where free will comes in.  It is a gift from GOD. 

when we chose the road less traveled we often grow, when we chose the easy way out, like this guy in Virginia, we don't grow.

So in a sense , GOD has given us the gift of choosing to grow spiritually.

God is with us always and there anytime we call on him.  All of our hairs are counted so to speak.   

That whole 'free will' argument becomes bullpuckey when one person's 'free will' results in the death of other people.   

What?  They're dead because they chose to go to school that day??   

[OzmO]

That whole 'free will' argument becomes bullpuckey when one person's 'free will' results in the death of other people.   

What?  They're dead because they chose to go to school that day??   

i was never trying to suggest they chose to die that day.  i was just making a statement about free will.

[Tre]

i was never trying to suggest they chose to die that day.  i was just making a statement about free will.

Right, and my argument is that one person's 'hallowed' free will should end where another's begins.   

[The_Iron_Disciple]

Wow ! My thread has gotten quite a few replies ! GOOD ! I don't believe in the Christian God ... rather, I believe in a Higher Power ... a Higher Being. The Christian God to me is both Good and Evil ... remember, God is EVERYTHING. Great posts everyone, btw !!!

[Wikidudeman]

And God said to Cyrus...

Isaiah:45-7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].