Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 768482 times)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7600 on: June 27, 2021, 05:47:24 PM »

Really, "they" are losing control eh? Hilarious. It was only the most successful psyop in the history of mankind...and it happened on a "free" internet with relative ease with those asking questions silenced and marginalized immediately. They manufactured the truth and the reality.

If anything the "everything opening up" will be for crypto as the money of common people...not real value....slave money. Look at what the internet has turned into in 20 years. Expect the same from this "money". Another total control mechanism disguised as something else.

The same people now buying BTC would be the people buying hundreds of domain names in the 90s hoping to hit it big. Same old shit except people watched it go to 60k and just sat on it due to pumper FOMO.

Whether you call BTC "slave money", or not, the reality is we are all slaves for money. With those in power the slave masters. This is why BTC is so revolutionary - it creates the opportunity for new masters to arise, namely whole-coiners. Right now, becoming a future master is in reach, just how like in pioneer days, grabbing land and becoming a land-owner was cheap. Those who see the future and react accordingly will succeed.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7601 on: June 27, 2021, 06:06:45 PM »
My rebuttal is simple. If turning off half the network has next to no effect then what you did was halve your energy consumption which solves one of Bitcoins largest problems. In fact a maxi was talking about the difficulty level and the network could go down another 50% from here and still operate with almost no difference according to them.

If you halved your energy and made next to no difference to the network, why would anyone want to turn them back on and consume twice the energy for virtually zero benefit?  If as you say price doesn’t follow hashrate then you don’t need the power…….

The logic of the mining network is being inside your house during the day, having plenty of natural  light and then all your inside lighting turned on aswell. You Turn half the lights off and pretty much no difference but then you want to turn them all back on again.

So what is the reasoning behind wanting to consume double the energy?

Well, in theory, yes if you "turned off half the network" you would reduce energy mining energy consumption by half. Indeed, this is the exact reason why hash rate dropped when Chinese miners went off-line (although it was much less that 50% in that case). But assuming 50% cut, in such a case, half the amount of energy is then needed to create the same number of coins.

However, no one country can control mining, as a bitcoin doesn't care where its mined.

So, what of course happens in reality is that if you halve mining, yet have the same price for the asset being mined, the revenue for those remaining (or any new entrant) immediately doubles. This in turn creates an economic incentive for more energy to be devoted to mining, and hence you quickly get back to where you started. More energy, chasing the same number of new coins. (And that is EXACTLY what has happened, as the Chinese mining that went offline (dropping hashrate) was quickly replaced by new mining in the US, Mongolia, Kazakstan, etc).

Hence, if the price stays the same (let alone goes up), and you halve the number of miners, you will see hash-rate increase accordingly. Indeed, you will see this happening as fast as over the next few weeks even, as the Chinese shutdown combined with a stable price has created an incentive for new miners to enter due to the higher profit margin available.

I wonder if some of the confusion you have comes from is that hashrate is arguably an indicator of where miners think future prices will head. So, for example, say we have an existing cost neutral hash-rate, but you or me or anyone else believe that price in the future will be higher that in already "priced in" by existing miners in funding their operations. Eg lets say that consensus view is that prices will be an average of $50K for the next year, but you and I think that prices will be an average of $80K. That additional "above market consensus view" of pricing may lead us to put rigs online (increasing hash rate), with the view that we will reap the rewards of that investment in the future. But either way, again, its (obviously) ultimately the price that drives the hashrate.

Hope this makes sense!

As for the "problem" of energy consumption, its this "cost" which under the "proof of work" model, that keeps the network secure. Longer term, I believe economics will solve the problem of dirty energy consumption. Its won't be efficient, as miners inevitably move to energy that is cheapest, and essentially "free" other than the costs of construction. Think massive solar farms in deserts, hydroelectric, geothermal, etc.


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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7602 on: June 27, 2021, 07:12:35 PM »
Whether you call BTC "slave money", or not, the reality is we are all slaves for money. With those in power the slave masters. This is why BTC is so revolutionary - it creates the opportunity for new masters to arise, namely whole-coiners. Right now, becoming a future master is in reach, just how like in pioneer days, grabbing land and becoming a land-owner was cheap. Those who see the future and react accordingly will succeed.



The delusion is grand indeed. You think you are going to run the world by owning some BTC.  ;D

Meanwhile in reality you don't even know who built the casino in which you are playing but you are sure it was built for winners not for marks....and before you say it, yes it DOES matter who built it. That fact will be one of the primary weapons used to destroy it when it is time for the real rollout of one world money.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7603 on: June 27, 2021, 07:16:18 PM »


The delusion is grand indeed. You think you are going to run the world by owning some BTC.  ;D

Meanwhile in reality you don't even know who built the casino in which you are playing but you are sure it was built for winners not for marks....and before you say it, yes it DOES matter who built it. That fact will be one of the primary weapons used to destroy it when it is time for the real rollout of one world money.

Its either dominate or be dominated. You choose. I know which side I will be on...Meanwhile the disenfranchised will be muttering about conspiracy theories, FUD, how its "unfair", etc etc. You are currently privileged enough to have a chance to secure your place in the digitized era of wealth. Your choice. You cannot say you have not been warned... I have said it many a time. Buy a little Bitcoin as a hedge on the future. And then HODL. How hard can that be?

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7604 on: June 28, 2021, 12:50:23 AM »
Well, in theory, yes if you "turned off half the network" you would reduce energy mining energy consumption by half. Indeed, this is the exact reason why hash rate dropped when Chinese miners went off-line (although it was much less that 50% in that case). But assuming 50% cut, in such a case, half the amount of energy is then needed to create the same number of coins.

However, no one country can control mining, as a bitcoin doesn't care where its mined.

So, what of course happens in reality is that if you halve mining, yet have the same price for the asset being mined, the revenue for those remaining (or any new entrant) immediately doubles. This in turn creates an economic incentive for more energy to be devoted to mining, and hence you quickly get back to where you started. More energy, chasing the same number of new coins. (And that is EXACTLY what has happened, as the Chinese mining that went offline (dropping hashrate) was quickly replaced by new mining in the US, Mongolia, Kazakstan, etc).

Hence, if the price stays the same (let alone goes up), and you halve the number of miners, you will see hash-rate increase accordingly. Indeed, you will see this happening as fast as over the next few weeks even, as the Chinese shutdown combined with a stable price has created an incentive for new miners to enter due to the higher profit margin available.

I wonder if some of the confusion you have comes from is that hashrate is arguably an indicator of where miners think future prices will head. So, for example, say we have an existing cost neutral hash-rate, but you or me or anyone else believe that price in the future will be higher that in already "priced in" by existing miners in funding their operations. Eg lets say that consensus view is that prices will be an average of $50K for the next year, but you and I think that prices will be an average of $80K. That additional "above market consensus view" of pricing may lead us to put rigs online (increasing hash rate), with the view that we will reap the rewards of that investment in the future. But either way, again, its (obviously) ultimately the price that drives the hashrate.

Hope this makes sense!

As for the "problem" of energy consumption, its this "cost" which under the "proof of work" model, that keeps the network secure. Longer term, I believe economics will solve the problem of dirty energy consumption. Its won't be efficient, as miners inevitably move to energy that is cheapest, and essentially "free" other than the costs of construction. Think massive solar farms in deserts, hydroelectric, geothermal, etc.

Thanks for the detailed response.

exactly what you said in the 2nd paragraph - there is incentive for more energy to chase the same number of coins - is Not a great selling point because we want efficiency. If 10 machines can get the job done and we instead use a system which encourages 30 machines to perform the same work I don’t understand how this can become a viable network.

Do I make sense with this point or is there something I don’t get?

Elon doesn’t like BTC because of the inefficiency. What if he creates a network 100x more efficient which causes BTC price to stall? Will people call for his head because of it?

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7605 on: June 28, 2021, 01:29:57 AM »
Thanks for the detailed response.

exactly what you said in the 2nd paragraph - there is incentive for more energy to chase the same number of coins - is Not a great selling point because we want efficiency. If 10 machines can get the job done and we instead use a system which encourages 30 machines to perform the same work I don’t understand how this can become a viable network.

Do I make sense with this point or is there something I don’t get?

Elon doesn’t like BTC because of the inefficiency. What if he creates a network 100x more efficient which causes BTC price to stall? Will people call for his head because of it?

No worries. Welcome! Your initial point, it seemed, was that hashrate drives price. This is not correct, which I hope is clear now.

Regarding energy efficiency, and why we could just not use less machines, one of BTC's strengths lies in the difficulty of it's creation, which in turn provides it with its greatest protection to a 51% attack - ie when one or more miners takes control of more than 50% of the network's hashrate. If you want a store of value that is truly decentralized, you need to incentivize the protection, and this is what BTC beautifully does via the incentives from mining. The other option is a far more centralized coin, more "energy efficient" for sure, controlled by one or more people. Such a coin has huge counterparty and "key man" risk, which is why most if not all will fail and are not seen as a foundational store of value, (unless you were to place more faith in a person or group of people or a Government) as opposed to placing your faith in the truth of mathematics.

If you take the gold mining analogy, (or any asset mined for that example), the easier for the asset to be created, the lower its ultimate value will be, and the more useless it becomes as a store of value. So we use gold as an store of value (extremely energy intensive to mine), vs say rocks or water which are "environmentally friendly" in terms of effort (or "energy") needed to create them, but also highly abundant.

Will we see the creators of new coins try to launch and gain traction with "energy efficiency" claims? Sure, many will try, I am sure. Many many cryptos have been created that cost for less to mine. (Indeed, the number of such creations is infinite). None so far have yet reached the value of BTC, due to the inherent quality of scarcity and cost of production of BTC.

As for whether we could make BTC itself more energy efficient, as explained above, I think there will be a shift to renewable energy over time, driven by economics. We will over time of course also see a continued migration to ever increasing energy efficient chips (again driven by economics). Simply mandating that "we need to have less miners" is not going to work, and new miners will always appear when economically incentivized to do so.

Could a change in the code of BTC be made to achieve the same benefits of BTC at lower energy cost? Yes, its doable. The challenge would be to preserve all the legacy of energy that has gone into the creation of the original coins mined to date, and they would then need to tread very very carefully to move to an algorithm that was less computationally demanding whilst still ensuring that the integrity of the blockchain was maintained. Easier said than done. This would also require consensus within the BTC and mining community. And if not executed well, it could trigger a massive collapse in the value of BTC if people feared its security or scarcity or uniqueness was at risk and lost confidence. Lets watch with interest as Eth's move to proof of stake gets under way.


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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7606 on: June 28, 2021, 05:09:04 AM »
So for the future would you say it’s highly probable regulations come in for mining? Home mining not allowed and only green energy commercial projects allowed? This would limit the number of machines on the network and reduce overall energy consumption plus provide regulation. It Could be an answer?

I worded before poorly. Hash rate and price are in a relationship. High hash rate, high price. Low hash rate, low price.

if you suddenly shut down a chunk of the network, price trends lower to match the energy consumption. Ie lower energy = lower price. April and right now are evidence of this.

Therefore it should mean price isn’t going anywhere far until more mining rigs are switched on to replace what China shutdown. Then again we have a difficulty adjustment happening so let’s see if it proves the energy consumption false!  I’m open minded but what some on chain people said in April they are now contradicting. It’s a fkn pain in the ass to get honest information right now.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7607 on: June 28, 2021, 06:03:06 AM »
This is where the hash rate sits right now. Back at 2019 levels now.

According to Twitter this is either completely irrelevant or it is bullish.

Interesting that now miners are irrelevant when They were being blamed some time ago for dumping coins when the hash rate dropped. Funny that.

We’ll find out in July whether hash rate and price still like to hang out together. Could also be August.


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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7608 on: June 28, 2021, 07:22:46 AM »
Its either dominate or be dominated. You choose. I know which side I will be on...Meanwhile the disenfranchised will be muttering about conspiracy theories, FUD, how its "unfair", etc etc. You are currently privileged enough to have a chance to secure your place in the digitized era of wealth. Your choice. You cannot say you have not been warned... I have said it many a time. Buy a little Bitcoin as a hedge on the future. And then HODL. How hard can that be?


Nah.

You are in the casino, don't know who built it and think they built it for you to win and become one of "them".

People are making money off of the volatility but to hold bad tech forever is hilarious.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7609 on: June 29, 2021, 03:59:18 PM »
Looks like we lost someone from this thread, RIP 🪦


One of the largest owners of bitcoin, who reportedly held as much as $1 billion, is dead at 41: reports - MarketWatch

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-of-the-largest-owners-of-bitcoin-who-reportedly-held-as-much-as-1-billion-is-dead-at-41-reports-11624904721

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7610 on: June 29, 2021, 08:46:10 PM »
Looks like we lost someone from this thread, RIP 🪦


One of the largest owners of bitcoin, who reportedly held as much as $1 billion, is dead at 41: reports - MarketWatch

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-of-the-largest-owners-of-bitcoin-who-reportedly-held-as-much-as-1-billion-is-dead-at-41-reports-11624904721

One of the main BTC maxi influencers tweeted that this was bullish. Even though he later deleted the tweet because it was an idiotic thing to post on a public forum, Bitcoin cultists still offer him their soul.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7611 on: June 29, 2021, 09:28:03 PM »
Twitter told me because I sold I was not deserving of Bitcoin, I don’t understand Bitcoin or money and am an idiot…….

Who here thinks a parabolic run happens weeks after a parabolic run?

Jack Dorsey CEO of Twitter asked Elon to come to the ‘B word’ event to have ‘the’ chat about Bitcoin in July. cultists think they are smarter than the spaceship bloke……

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7612 on: June 30, 2021, 08:39:34 AM »
$6 Billion NCR Opens Bitcoin Purchases To 650 Banks And Credit Unions

650 U.S. banks will soon be able to offer bitcoin purchases to an estimated 24 million total customers.


As part of the deal, between enterprise payments giant NCR and digital asset management firm NYDIG, community banks including North Carolina-based First Citizens Bank and credit unions including Bay Federal Credit Union in California will be able to offer their clients cryptocurrency trading through mobile applications built by the payments provider.

Instead of having to deal with the burdensome regulatory requirements related to actually holding the cryptocurrency for their customers, the financial institutions that opt to make the service available will rely on NYDIG’s custody services.

The effort is the latest by Atlanta-based NCR, to capitalize on demand it’s seeing from banks and credit unions tired of seeing crypto-purchases made from their accounts to outside exchanges. By providing these clients a way to buy bitcoin—and eventually spend it—within their existing accounts, the traditional financial institutions are part of a rising tide of traditional financial institutions in direct competition with cryptocurrency exchanges.

“We’re firm believers in the benefits of crypto and the strategic application,” says NCR president of digital banking, Douglas Brown. “And that’s true for our banking relationships, as evidenced by NYDIG, and across retailers as well as restaurants and the like.”

Founded in 1884 as the National Cash Register, NCR employs 34,000 people and does business ranging from digital banking service to ATMs and restaurant point-of-sale kiosks, in 160 countries. From January to March 2020 the company’s stock tanked 62% to $13.43. Then, riding a similar tide as PayPal and many other financial technology service providers since the Covid-19 pandemic, NCR’s stock has jumped 238% since March 2020, when quarantine started, and is now trading at $45.44. NCR generated $6.2 billion revenue from non-cryptocurrency transactions last year.[/i]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2021/06/30/6-billion-ncr-opens-bitcoin-purchases-to-650-banks-and-credit-unions/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7613 on: June 30, 2021, 05:38:08 PM »
Monthly prints for June.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7616 on: July 01, 2021, 06:59:02 PM »
Lol at those fools and crypto-doomsayers here who cited India as an example of a country "banning" Bitcoin...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/india-may-quietly-shown-hand-190909090.html

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7617 on: July 02, 2021, 11:16:18 PM »
This is where the hash rate sits right now. Back at 2019 levels now.

According to Twitter this is either completely irrelevant or it is bullish.

Interesting that now miners are irrelevant when They were being blamed some time ago for dumping coins when the hash rate dropped. Funny that.

We’ll find out in July whether hash rate and price still like to hang out together. Could also be August.

Think of it like this.

Imagine a bunch of property developers (akin to miners producing hash rate) start building a whole bunch of properties. They can build all they want, but all that effort building and increasing supply does nothing to increase price. And indeed it would be a rather foolish to start building properties in the belief that the act of building generates demand.

Rather they way it happens it like this. The price of existing properties risee. This in turn leads builders to build more, provided their cost of production is less then the current (or anticipated) price, in the hope of making a profit in selling the future properties they build.

Its the demand that drives the incentive to supply.

Same with bitcoin. Its a ridiculous concept to believe that you will go out and mine, and the more you mine the more the prices will go up. Indeed its actually quite the opposite. You have a price of BTC (driven by demand) and then, if your cost of mining is lower then the current price you will be incentivised to mine. If your cost of mining is less then the money you can earn from it, your incentive to mine will drop.

It should be very obvious - hash-rate does not determine BTC price. Indeed its quite the opposite - the higher the BTC price is above the cost of mining, the more people are encouraged to mine.

Pure capitalism and economics.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7618 on: July 03, 2021, 02:29:36 AM »
So it’s a system which encourages greater and greater energy consumption with its purpose only as  something to store money in. As price rises, more energy piles in to make money. It doesn’t power anything other than the creation of itself. Ok I get that and I see why institutions have a huge problem with its energy side now.

Saylor has said, he doesn’t want BTC to have any ambitions above being something that you park money in. That’s it. He wants as little regulation as possible and says it needs to have no ambition as a result. Says the downfall of ETH is it has ambition and therefore greater regulation will make it useless. An interesting take to have technology that sort of does nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, the rich have fucked our monetary system but I do have a bit of an issue that this is the answer. You can see why Elon gives maxis a hard time over energy usage. His point being, sure let’s have a crypto to park money in but it needs to use way less energy if it isn’t going to really do anything.


Anyhoo, the start of the month is for rallying. We should hopefully see 2 weeks of a strong rally. Money makers can easily send over 42k and from there let retail FOMO to 47k-50k. I’m still in cash. The greater market might get rocky back half of July and charts say we still have more months of cool down.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7619 on: July 03, 2021, 03:58:16 AM »
So it’s a system which encourages greater and greater energy consumption with its purpose only as  something to store money in. As price rises, more energy piles in to make money. It doesn’t power anything other than the creation of itself. Ok I get that and I see why institutions have a huge problem with its energy side now.

Saylor has said, he doesn’t want BTC to have any ambitions above being something that you park money in. That’s it. He wants as little regulation as possible and says it needs to have no ambition as a result. Says the downfall of ETH is it has ambition and therefore greater regulation will make it useless. An interesting take to have technology that sort of does nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, the rich have fucked our monetary system but I do have a bit of an issue that this is the answer. You can see why Elon gives maxis a hard time over energy usage. His point being, sure let’s have a crypto to park money in but it needs to use way less energy if it isn’t going to really do anything.


Anyhoo, the start of the month is for rallying. We should hopefully see 2 weeks of a strong rally. Money makers can easily send over 42k and from there let retail FOMO to 47k-50k. I’m still in cash. The greater market might get rocky back half of July and charts say we still have more months of cool down.

Saylor has said BTC is the base layer and other applications will be built ontop of layer 1. I dont  recall him saying no regularion, infact he states regulation  is welcomed as it welcomes  adoption.  Be it Saylor, Musk Maxis .......btc doesn't  give two shits. BTC will keep growing organically.  Btc has weathered a tsunami of attacks over its short tenure, and like the hulk, the more you piss it off the larger and more ferocious it becomes. 

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7620 on: July 03, 2021, 04:28:55 AM »
Once bitcoin eventually becomes accepted the big institutions will control it just like they control everything else.

The only way it will become accepted is if it becomes a relatively stable medium of exchange.

If you can make some money speculating before that happens go for it.

Once it goes mainstream the party will be over.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7621 on: July 03, 2021, 06:20:40 AM »
So it’s a system which encourages greater and greater energy consumption with its purpose only as  something to store money in. As price rises, more energy piles in to make money. It doesn’t power anything other than the creation of itself. Ok I get that and I see why institutions have a huge problem with its energy side now.

Saylor has said, he doesn’t want BTC to have any ambitions above being something that you park money in. That’s it. He wants as little regulation as possible and says it needs to have no ambition as a result. Says the downfall of ETH is it has ambition and therefore greater regulation will make it useless. An interesting take to have technology that sort of does nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, the rich have fucked our monetary system but I do have a bit of an issue that this is the answer. You can see why Elon gives maxis a hard time over energy usage. His point being, sure let’s have a crypto to park money in but it needs to use way less energy if it isn’t going to really do anything.


Anyhoo, the start of the month is for rallying. We should hopefully see 2 weeks of a strong rally. Money makers can easily send over 42k and from there let retail FOMO to 47k-50k. I’m still in cash. The greater market might get rocky back half of July and charts say we still have more months of cool down.



Every form of technology is replaced by a cheaper, faster one. Every single one.

As a socio-economic experiment crypto is a success but the only real thing I've seen crypto do at this point is divert $$$ that would have otherwise gone into precious metals. Metals ETF vs physical has already decoupled, imagine if that 1.5T was in the metals market. It would seem a benefit to govts, big industry and central banks that all this fake printed money chase fake assets rather than real ones.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7622 on: July 03, 2021, 10:50:04 AM »
Saylor has said BTC is the base layer and other applications will be built ontop of layer 1. I dont  recall him saying no regularion, infact he states regulation  is welcomed as it welcomes  adoption.  Be it Saylor, Musk Maxis .......btc doesn't  give two shits. BTC will keep growing organically.  Btc has weathered a tsunami of attacks over its short tenure, and like the hulk, the more you piss it off the larger and more ferocious it becomes.

These fudsters in this thread remind me of the slow kid in class who lashes out at his classmates because they understand the subject and he doesn't.

Like it's THEIR fault because HE hasn't been paying attention or doing his homework  ::)

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7623 on: July 03, 2021, 05:55:42 PM »
These fudsters in this thread remind me of the slow kid in class who lashes out at his classmates because they understand the subject and he doesn't.

Like it's THEIR fault because HE hasn't been paying attention or doing his homework  ::)

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7624 on: July 03, 2021, 07:33:09 PM »
This is a retarted thread for retards who want to lose money
A