Author Topic: After Trump  (Read 4955 times)

timfogarty

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After Trump
« on: August 13, 2016, 02:49:45 PM »
It's 86 days until this election is over, and it's a given that Hilary Clinton will win.  What happens after that?

The question is whether Trump is the problem, or a symptom.  During most of the 20th century the Republican party was the party of business, but they were also always the minority party, not having control of the House for 40 years straight.  But once they teamed up with Christian Evangelicals, they started winning more and more.  However, the establishment Republicans only gave lip service to the desires of the Religious Right, who finally revoted with the Tea Party coalition. Now these people are Trump supporters, even though Trump's views do not align with Tea Party doctrine at all.

I've written before how the Dixiecrats of the 60s and 70s became the Reagan Democrats of the 80s, which became the Tea Party of the 2000s.

Everyone likes to think they're part of the silent majority.  Trump supporters certainly do.  But they are far from it.  Trump supporters are predominately older white male Christian.  One third of the electorate is white Christian.  Some Christians are liberal.  Feeding the poor more important than judging the gays. White women support Trump much less than white men, even in the Evangelicals.  So the base of the Republican party is maybe one sixth of the electorate.    Simple math shows that nominating someone true to the values of one sixth of the electorate is not going to stand a chance in the general election, especially when many of the values they hold dear are anti-people in the other 5/6ths.

There are Republicans who could have given Hillary a run for her money.  John Kasich for one.  But there is no way the base of the Republican party (formerly the Tea Party, now just angry older white men) would support someone they saw as a Republican In Name Only.  Neither John McCann nor Mitt Romney met their litmus test, and they weren't going down that route again.

In 1994 California Republicans pushed an extreme anti-immigrant proposition, Prop 187.  They barely won in the general election, but the law was quickly overturned as unconstitutional.  But by passing this prop, they drove immigrants into the arms of the Democratic party.  Twenty two years later, Californian Democrats control all branches of government, and have a super-majority in both houses of the state legislature. (and oh yeah, California is doing just fine economically, thank you.)  And because of our jungle primary, the top two vote getters to go to the general election in November are both Democrats.

These angry white male Trump supporters are now doing the same to the national Republican party.  Asian and latinos are now firmly in the arms of the Democratic party. Young people, even young evangelicals, are identifying as Democratic too.

So what happens next?  My guess is that Republicans will do well in the 2018 elections.  They always do better in off year elections. The Democratic base doesn't come out as much when it is not a presidential election.  And the president's party always tend to loose some House seats in the second year of their administration.  But by doing well in 2018, Republicans will forget any lessons from 2016.

What happens in 2020 ? Establishment Republicans have lost control of their party.  No way they'll get their choice for the 2020 presidential nominee.  It will be another demagogue that appeals to angry white men.  My bet is someone like Curt Schilling.  Won't stand a chance in the general.

And what about the Democratic party?  I would love to see it split in two, a business friendly right of center party, and a progressive workers party.  (I see Obama, Clinton and my senator Feinstein all as right of center)

mr.turbo

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2016, 02:51:07 PM »
give them 20 years to recover
"

mr.turbo

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2016, 02:55:30 PM »


"

LanceD

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2016, 03:10:57 PM »
He did beat 17 candidates, didn't he

timfogarty

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2016, 04:41:16 PM »
He did beat 17 candidates, didn't he

in a primary of a party where far right people dominate.

the numbers vary year to year, but let's say that 30% of the country are Republican, 30% are Democrat, and 40% are neither.  In a general election, if all the Republicans vote for their candidate, and all the Democrats vote for theirs, you still have to get more than half of the independents to win.  Anyone acceptable to the far right will not do well with the independents.

Another factor in all this is the right wing news bubble of Drugde and Fox News.  The views of the angry white men are constantly being reinforced.  No wonder they think they're the silent majority.

70% of Republicans believe Obama is not a natural born citizen of the US, and therefore not legally qualified to be president. (yet they have no problem with Ted Cruz who was born in Canada to an American mother and Cuban father, and until last year had dual citizenship.)

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2016, 07:44:24 PM »
He did beat 17 candidates, didn't he

He is representative of about 40% of base voters. 

The others, like coach, just wanted to pick the winner so they voted for whoever fox said was the veto runner that week. "I am so happy I picked the winner".  Yeah.

Most repubs aren't like trump.

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2016, 07:51:33 PM »
He is representative of about 40% of base voters.  

The others, like coach, just wanted to pick the winner so they voted for whoever fox said was the veto runner that week. "I am so happy I picked the winner".  Yeah.

Most repubs aren't like trump.

Why the fuck do you come on here and consistently lie all the time? When I get down to Davie later this year I seriously want to sit down with you and have a beer away from your computer and have this discussion. No, I don't want to fight. I just think you're lost without google.

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 07:55:16 PM »
Have a feeling you without google would go something like this....




mr.turbo

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 07:59:41 PM »
coach, where do you get your information?
"

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2016, 08:03:50 PM »
It's 86 days until this election is over, and it's a given that Hilary Clinton will win.  What happens after that?

The question is whether Trump is the problem, or a symptom.  During most of the 20th century the Republican party was the party of business, but they were also always the minority party, not having control of the House for 40 years straight.  But once they teamed up with Christian Evangelicals, they started winning more and more.  However, the establishment Republicans only gave lip service to the desires of the Religious Right, who finally revoted with the Tea Party coalition. Now these people are Trump supporters, even though Trump's views do not align with Tea Party doctrine at all.

I've written before how the Dixiecrats of the 60s and 70s became the Reagan Democrats of the 80s, which became the Tea Party of the 2000s.

Everyone likes to think they're part of the silent majority.  Trump supporters certainly do.  But they are far from it.  Trump supporters are predominately older white male Christian.  One third of the electorate is white Christian.  Some Christians are liberal.  Feeding the poor more important than judging the gays. White women support Trump much less than white men, even in the Evangelicals.  So the base of the Republican party is maybe one sixth of the electorate.    Simple math shows that nominating someone true to the values of one sixth of the electorate is not going to stand a chance in the general election, especially when many of the values they hold dear are anti-people in the other 5/6ths.

There are Republicans who could have given Hillary a run for her money.  John Kasich for one.  But there is no way the base of the Republican party (formerly the Tea Party, now just angry older white men) would support someone they saw as a Republican In Name Only.  Neither John McCann nor Mitt Romney met their litmus test, and they weren't going down that route again.

In 1994 California Republicans pushed an extreme anti-immigrant proposition, Prop 187.  They barely won in the general election, but the law was quickly overturned as unconstitutional.  But by passing this prop, they drove immigrants into the arms of the Democratic party.  Twenty two years later, Californian Democrats control all branches of government, and have a super-majority in both houses of the state legislature. (and oh yeah, California is doing just fine economically, thank you.)  And because of our jungle primary, the top two vote getters to go to the general election in November are both Democrats.

These angry white male Trump supporters are now doing the same to the national Republican party.  Asian and latinos are now firmly in the arms of the Democratic party. Young people, even young evangelicals, are identifying as Democratic too.

So what happens next?  My guess is that Republicans will do well in the 2018 elections.  They always do better in off year elections. The Democratic base doesn't come out as much when it is not a presidential election.  And the president's party always tend to loose some House seats in the second year of their administration.  But by doing well in 2018, Republicans will forget any lessons from 2016.

What happens in 2020 ? Establishment Republicans have lost control of their party.  No way they'll get their choice for the 2020 presidential nominee.  It will be another demagogue that appeals to angry white men.  My bet is someone like Curt Schilling.  Won't stand a chance in the general.

And what about the Democratic party?  I would love to see it split in two, a business friendly right of center party, and a progressive workers party.  (I see Obama, Clinton and my senator Feinstein all as right of center)



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Re: After Trump
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2016, 09:07:33 PM »
Why the fuck do you come on here and consistently lie all the time? When I get down to Davie later this year I seriously want to sit down with you and have a beer away from your computer and have this discussion. No, I don't want to fight. I just think you're lost without google.

Lol do I seriously strike you as the type that has to look stuff up to remember it?

No.  Nobody else would accuse me of that.  Accuse me of being annoying as fck, I admit that.  But "forgetful"?  Lol!  Nope. My ability to remember random stuff from 12 years ago is why I'm most annoying.

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 09:08:24 PM »
Are you going to cry when Trump wins? Clint was right, total pussy generation. We are going to make America so strong, so wealthy, and you naysayers are going to have nothing to say about it. We're going to win so much! The American people have been taken advantage of by the special interests, foreign countries and we put fake leaders that will refuse to put their people first, I'm so glad we have Mr. Trump running and fighting the Washington establishment that literally works to make us all dead last in the world. No more will we sacrifice our country or its people to the false song of globalism.

SaintAnger

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 09:12:41 PM »
Are you going to cry when Trump wins? Clint was right, total pussy generation. We are going to make America so strong, so wealthy, and you naysayers are going to have nothing to say about it. We're going to win so much! The American people have been taken advantage of by the special interests, foreign countries and we put fake leaders that will refuse to put their people first, I'm so glad we have Mr. Trump running and fighting the Washington establishment that literally works to make us all dead last in the world. No more will we sacrifice our country or its people to the false song of globalism.

You have to be trolling.  Jesus H.

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 09:13:12 PM »
If trump wins, I'll celebrate his new tax rate, look fwd yo him spilling the beans on 911, and probably enjoy is way more than if Hilary wins.  Obama is boring, Hilary would be boring.  I just like to debate on getbig.

If if if trump gets on all state ballots in the next few weeks- then he pulls outta race or otherwise signals he doesn't care... I think that'd be plenty of proof this was his plan all along, to make Hilary's path as easy as possible.  


Trump is so popular among a quarter of the nation. His new network will be a massive success.
He played this section brilliantly.  So what holiday does he use to announce he's slipping out?  When is Labor Day lol...

TuHolmes

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 09:20:07 PM »
How does he pull out and not anger that 25 percent?

Nether Animal

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2016, 09:23:23 PM »
Sorry Coach, I can't keep up with all of these threads outside the Political board. G&O is lost ... i'm pulling out (no bigmikecox)

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 09:23:26 PM »
Lol do I seriously strike you as the type that has to look stuff up to remember it?

No.  Nobody else would accuse me of that.  Accuse me of being annoying as fck, I admit that.  But "forgetful"?  Lol!  Nope. My ability to remember random stuff from 12 years ago is why I'm most annoying.

Yes, totally 1000%. The second a new story comes out you post it and think you know everything about it. Shit, take police shootings, you IMMEDIATLY draw your own conclusions and post up your cop hate propaganda.  

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2016, 09:25:53 PM »
Sorry Coach, I can't keep up with all of these threads outside the Political board. G&O is lost ... i'm pulling out (no bigmikecox)

Just as an FYI it's always like this on the G&O during election season that's why Ron or other mods usually don't move the threads. It gets heated and Ron is a conservative.

titusisback

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2016, 09:35:49 PM »
Trump vs. Hillary = like choosing between two STDs

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2016, 09:41:54 PM »
Trump vs. Hillary = like choosing between two STDs

This is the most factual post in any thread.

SF1900

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2016, 10:22:21 PM »
Trump vs. Hillary = like choosing between two STDs

Which STD is Hillary and which STD is Trump?
X

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2016, 10:29:16 PM »
I agree that Hillary is likely going to be elected, but I laugh at anyone who "knows the future."

If you think Trump has 0% chance of winning you are not following current events.

The anti-Brexit vote was up by 14%!!! just hours before they lost.

This is a Black Swan election.

Stay sane, go for walks, hug your kids and seek meaning outside of politics...

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2016, 10:31:46 PM »
in a primary of a party where far right people dominate.



ROTFL!!!!!!


LMAO!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

YEAH NO.

The party eliets are all liberal interventionist globalists

titusisback

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2016, 11:01:42 PM »
Which STD is Hillary and which STD is Trump?

Corporations and 2 political "parties" intermingling = HIV, i.e. there's no cure unless something's done to this very unhealthy system. Designed for corruption to flourish.

Hillary = Chlamydia - can lead to serious consequences if not treated properly
Trump = Syphilis - do nothing and die

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Re: After Trump
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2016, 11:25:40 PM »
Republicans say Trump has three-weeks to turn things around or face full-scale abandonment


Is Trump in danger of losing GOP?

Donald Trump is in danger of losing his grip on the Republican Party as fears grow that he’s headed for a landslide defeat in November that will wipe out GOP majorities in Congress.

The cascade of Republicans seeking separation from Trump reached new levels this week and was punctuated by several high-profile defections, including centrist GOP Sen. Susan Collins of Maine. Scores of current and former Republican lawmakers and officials have similarly declared their intention to either sit this election out or cross party lines in the fall.

Three weeks removed from the Republican convention, polls show that Trump failed to increase support from within his own party, even as Democrats and former supporters of Bernie Sanders have steadily moved behind Hillary Clinton. There is a growing chorus of conservatives calling on the Republican National Committee to cut Trump loose and direct its resources to protecting GOP majorities in the House and Senate.

Republicans see the presidential race approaching a crossroads. They say Trump has about a three-week window to turn things around or face full-scale abandonment by the national party.

-snip-

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/291310-is-trump-in-danger-of-losing-gop