Author Topic: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping  (Read 13334 times)

BayGBM

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Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« on: August 17, 2006, 12:51:55 PM »
WASHINGTON, Aug. 17 — A federal judge in Detroit ruled today that the Bush administration’s eavesdropping program is illegal and unconstitutional, and she ordered that it cease at once.

District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor found that President Bush exceeded his proper authority and that the eavesdropping without warrants violated the First and Fourth Amendment protections of free speech and privacy.

“It was never the intent of the Framers to give the president such unfettered control, particularly where his actions blatantly disregard the parameters clearly enumerated in the Bill of Rights,” she wrote, in a decision that set the stage for further court battles.

In becoming the first federal judge to declare the eavesdropping program unconstitutional, Judge Taylor rejected the administration’s assertion that to defend itself against a lawsuit would force it to divulge information that should be kept secret in the name of national security.

“Predictably, the war on terror of this administration has produced a vast number of cases, in which the states secrets privilege has been invoked,” Judge Taylor wrote. She noted that the Supreme Court has held that because the president’s power to withhold secrets is so powerful, “it is not to be lightly invoked.” She also cited a finding in an earlier case by the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit that “whenever possible, sensitive information must be disentangled from nonsensitive information to allow for the release of the latter.”

In any event, she said, she is convinced that the administration could defend itself in this case without disclosing state secrets. Judge Taylor’s ruling came in a suit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of journalists, scholars, lawyers and various nonprofit organizations who argued that the possibility of eavesdropping by the National Security Agency interfered with their work.

Although she ordered an immediate halt to the eavesdropping program, no one who has followed the controversy expects the litigation to end quickly. The Justice Department said it was preparing its response to the ruling, and it was widely assumed that that response would include a request to postpone enforcement of Judge Taylor’s decree pending appeals.

The request for a stay of enforcement could be lodged with Judge Taylor herself, or with the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.

But for the moment, the ruling by Judge Taylor caused elation among the plaintiffs.

“It’s another nail in the coffin of executive unilateralism,” said Jameel Jaffer, a lawyer for the plaintiffs with the A.C.L.U. And Anthony Romero, executive director of the A.C.L.U., said Judge Taylor’s ruling “confirms that the government has been acting illegally, in contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and the Fourth Amendment.’’

The surveillance act was passed by Congress in 1978 in response to disclosures of previous government improprieties in eavesdropping. The act established a secret court to handle applications for surveillance operations, and set up procedures for them to take place while applications for warrants are pending in some limited circumstances and for limited times.

Judge Taylor said “the president has acted, undisputedly, as F.I.S.A. forbids,” thus defying the express will of Congress, and she was unpersuaded by the government’s stance that it could not defend itself in the lawsuit without doing the country harm.

“Consequently, the court finds defendants’ arguments that they cannot defend this case without the use of classified information to be disingenuous and without merit,” she wrote.

The judge, who heard arguments in the case in June, brushed aside several assertions made by lawyers for the National Security Agency. She held that, contrary to the N.S.A.’s assertions, the plaintiffs were suffering real harm, and had standing to sue the government.

“Here, plaintiffs are not asserting speculative allegations,” she said.

Judge Taylor, appointed by President Jimmy Carter in 1979, did not deal a total defeat to the administration. She dismissed a separate claim by the A.C.L.U. over data-mining of telephone records, agreeing that further litigation could indeed jeopardize state secrets.

But over all, Judge Taylor’s decision was a rebuke to the administration, as she made clear in closing by quoting Chief Justice Earl Warren’s words in a 1967 ruling: “Implicit in the term ‘national defense’ is the notion of defending those values and ideas which set this nation apart.”

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2006, 12:58:26 PM »
Many people just say "Who cares? I'm not a terrorist."

But when you think about the fact that the govt can currently - without probable cause - search your home without a warrant and never tell you - it is terrifying.

Dos Equis

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2006, 01:04:16 PM »
Sounds like a good decision to me. 

BayGBM

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2006, 01:26:48 PM »
And long overdue.  Everything in this country that happens in the public sphere (particularly actions taken by the government) happen under the scope of judicial review.  Even 6th grade students in social studies know this: its called checks and balances; it’s part of our system of government and nothing--not even a time a war--can suspend it.

If laws governing the FISA court oversight are outdated then change the law, but do not act outside of it.  The FISA law even allows for after the fact approval for wiretaps, but the idea that such taps can be undertaken without any judicial approval or scrutiny ever is simply illegal and undermines the very freedoms and system of government we claim to be defending and promulgating.  >:(

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2006, 01:28:27 PM »
Aren't illegal offenses sufficient grounds for impeachment?
w

BayGBM

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2006, 01:34:12 PM »
Aren't illegal offenses sufficient grounds for impeachment?

Technically, yes. But a republican controlled Congress would not initiate such proceedings against the head of their own party.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2006, 01:57:50 PM »
Incredible that "checks and balances" have gone out the window in recent years.

Dos Equis

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 02:05:06 PM »
This isn't any kind of impeachable offense.  He thought what he was doing was okay.  The judge disagreed.  He'll now do what the judge says, absent a different interpretation from the appellate court.  If the president secretly disobeys a court order, then we can talk impeachment.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 02:07:21 PM »
Incredible that "checks and balances" have gone out the window in recent years.

No they haven't.  The prez was just checked by a federal judge.  That's precisely how the system is supposed to work. 


Oldschool Flip

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 03:14:26 PM »
And when there is another terrorism attack, and another "but what did Government do to stop this" they will all be screaming. Didn't they just bust some guys who were planning to use cell phones as detonators?
Guess until more people die, no one will stand up to it.


Think about it. Do you monotor you child's activity on the computer? Isn't that "survellance"? IMO if you have nothing to hide, then why be afraid?

Al-Gebra

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 03:16:33 PM »


Think about it. Do you monotor you child's activity on the computer? Isn't that "survellance"? IMO if you have nothing to hide, then why be afraid?

1. I ain't no child.

2. If I want to hide something that is not hurting anyone else, but is potentially embarrassing to me . . .that's my business, not Uncle Sam's.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 03:34:48 PM »
1. I ain't no child.

2. If I want to hide something that is not hurting anyone else, but is potentially embarrassing to me . . .that's my business, not Uncle Sam's.
Bro it's not like it's going to be announced on the web. And the US Government could careless about the average Joe. It's the lobbyists that should be AFRAID.

But you don't feel that the US should have survellance on suspected terrorists or extremists without a warrant? And what if they can't get a warrant? What if they lived next door to you? Think about it. It's a different era. 10-15 years ago I never was aware of anyone (except a fine ass girl) on plane rides. Now (I fly from Washington Dulles to SF international every 6 months) I am always aware on the plane. Sad state of affairs.

Dos Equis

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 03:42:36 PM »
Bro it's not like it's going to be announced on the web. And the US Government could careless about the average Joe. It's the lobbyists that should be AFRAID.

But you don't feel that the US should have survellance on suspected terrorists or extremists without a warrant? And what if they can't get a warrant? What if they lived next door to you? Think about it. It's a different era. 10-15 years ago I never was aware of anyone (except a fine ass girl) on plane rides. Now (I fly from Washington Dulles to SF international every 6 months) I am always aware on the plane. Sad state of affairs.

Good points OldSchool.  I have the same concerns.  I do think the government should be required to get a warrant, but it is definitely much more complicated when you're talking about your own backyard.  Should a terrorist have the same rights as me?  Heck no.  But the problem is if you blur the line you open the door for the government to use these methods on law abiding citizens too.   

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 03:42:53 PM »
Think about it. Do you monotor you child's activity on the computer? Isn't that "survellance"? IMO if you have nothing to hide, then why be afraid?

Ever read '1984'?

Al-Gebra

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2006, 03:57:54 PM »
Bro it's not like it's going to be announced on the web. And the US Government could careless about the average Joe. It's the lobbyists that should be AFRAID.


Even if it's not on the web, I very strongly resent any diminishing of my privacy.  And you never know when things can be leaked . . . what if you decide to run for office? Do people need to know who you were shtupping when you were in college? the govt. could accumulate all sorts of info on you, and interested people could leak it . . .

Quote

But you don't feel that the US should have survellance on suspected terrorists or extremists without a warrant? And what if they can't get a warrant? What if they lived next door to you? Think about it. It's a different era. 10-15 years ago I never was aware of anyone (except a fine ass girl) on plane rides. Now (I fly from Washington Dulles to SF international every 6 months) I am always aware on the plane. Sad state of affairs.

Yes, even if they were my neighbor, I would want them to have a warrant.  Warrants are not too hard to obtain, and they protect you and me . . . what if it was your house they decided to barge into?

Yes, things have changed, but I want to keep as many of my rights as I can . . . that's what makes this nation great. that's what separates us from other nations. I could live anywhere in the world, but i choose to live in the US b/c of our rule of law . . . helps protect the individual from the "tyranny of the majority."

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2006, 04:14:45 PM »
Warrentless?? I would assume if it not for the taps half of these plot would have happend...........but as such, they didn't!!

Al-Gebra

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2006, 04:16:42 PM »
Warrentless?? I would assume if it not for the taps half of these plot would have happend...........but as such, they didn't!!

assuming is the first step on the road to becoming part of the jaguarenterprises A team.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2006, 04:23:16 PM »
Personally,  I don't want anyone wire taping me with out the judicial system.

that's why we have a judicial system as part of our "checks and balances"

And i'm not a terrorist or do anything illegal. 

FEAR is not a good enough motivator for me to give up my rights as an American citizen.

Who ever says i should do that can go pound salt.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2006, 04:30:16 PM »
its not illegal.  its in a legal gray area.  this judge is an idiot, they should keep this program going. they are not listening to you talkin to your aunt may in Iowa, they only use to to listen to int'l phone calls with known or suspected terrorists.  besides, do you really thyink they give a shit about your phone calls. 

i dont understand why this gets everybody so pissed off
Valhalla awaits.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2006, 04:37:36 PM »
its not illegal.  its in a legal gray area.  this judge is an idiot, they should keep this program going. they are not listening to you talkin to your aunt may in Iowa, they only use to to listen to int'l phone calls with known or suspected terrorists.  besides, do you really thyink they give a shit about your phone calls. 

i dont understand why this gets everybody so pissed off

Because Bush doesn't have to get permission from another branch of govt to do it, and there doesn't ever have to be a record of what they do, and no control over who they choose to investigate. 

Because your neighbor can get pissed at your dogs barking and call the feds and tell them he overheard you talking about some plot, and they can spend 5 years bugging your house and searching it while you're at work, and never tell you.

how long until a party will *receive tips* that their rival political party might be doing something shady, and they decide to wiretap them?  Nixon broke into his rival's office.  bush can do it legally :)

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2006, 04:38:30 PM »
As a history ww2 buff, and you are definatly a good one Cav22, you should know that the road to tyranny start with losing little freedoms like this in the name of protection.

I want a judge period.  I don;t care how long it takes or how expensive it is.  I want a dam judge to ok wire taps. 

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2006, 04:43:32 PM »
As a history ww2 buff, and you are definatly a good one Cav22, you should know that the road to tyranny start with losing little freedoms like this in the name of protection.

I want a judge period.  I don;t care how long it takes or how expensive it is.  I want a dam judge to ok wire taps. 


I think the biggest issue is this............

People who are okay with the wiretaps trust teh govt to do the right thing.
People who are against them, do not trust the govt to do the right thing.

Historically, just about every group who has obtained absolute power has abused it.

People who are okay with the wiretaps aren't worried about that.
People who are against them, are worried about that.

That's it.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 06:52:59 PM »
Technically, yes. But a republican controlled Congress would not initiate such proceedings against the head of their own party.

What do you think the chances of Impeachment are?
S

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 08:30:24 PM »
Technically, yes. But a republican controlled Congress would not initiate such proceedings against the head of their own party.

  Exactly. The vast majority of the Republican party is comprised of bobble-headed sycophants. I'm sure Bush and his flunkies will find a way around the ruling, though; they always do.

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Re: Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2006, 09:35:37 PM »
hahahyahahahahaha

dude

foxnews is bashing the judge that made this decision

hahahahahahahahahahahaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

in 2002, she and another judge disagreed about something.

They're using this to discredit her, in her attempt to strike down the Bush admin's wireless taps.

What soulless bastards.