Author Topic: Oldtimer1  (Read 446248 times)

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1925 on: November 02, 2021, 04:00:50 PM »
I didn't lift or do cardio for a week while I was under the weather. Today I was going to lift but I just had power clean day for a little break in. I did 3 x 3 then 1 x 1. Very light weights. Stayed around 165lbs. Didn't want to tax myself.  Tomorrow I hope I will be firing on all cylinders. I was pretty sick. I wonder how much strength and endurance I lost. Tomorrow is time to get back to work in the gym.

Glad you are feeling better now. Stay well.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1926 on: November 03, 2021, 01:54:49 PM »
Trained back and chest. Back went well but I was a little weak on chest. Coming back from  week off because of being under the weather is always a trying time getting back. Surprisingly deadlifts went well. I put the deads at the end of the workout like Yates did so I'm prefatigued and the weight used is lighter.  Did two easy sets of 2 x 4 reps with 315lbs.  I'm sure I can do better if I put them first but the injury potential from using heavy weights and not being completely warmed up isn't worth it at my age. I'm sure I will be back strong after I get this week in. 

Pulldowns 2 x 10
Seated lat cable lat rows 2 x 12
Dumbbell rows off a bench 2 x 10
Pulldows with a narrow hands together supinate MAG bar 2 x 10 (pictured below)

Flat dumbbell bench 2 x 8 (I only used 75lbs but made the weight heavy by going really low. No parallel upper arms to the floor. I went deep with a slow negative.)
Decline dumbbell bench 2 x 8
Flat flies 2 x 10
Push ups 2 x max

Dead lifts 2 x 4
Weighted back extensions 2 x 15

Ab wheel roll out 1 x 26
Pulley crunch 1 x 60

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1927 on: November 05, 2021, 11:16:19 AM »
Leg day: No warm ups listed.

Leg press 2 x 12 (Always go really deep on these.)
Squat machine 2 x 10
Dumbbell squat 1 x 12
Stiff dead 2 x 6
leg extensions 2  x20
Seated leg curl 2 x 15

Hanging leg raise 1 x 26
Hip ups lying on the floor 1 x 31

Standing calf 2 x 15
Seated calf 2 x 15
tibalis work 1 x 20

Four way neck machine 2 sets of 25 reps a side.

In a coma as I type this. Really thinking about different training protocols. Very few train to failure from what I see. I wonder how I would be training if I was never exposed to Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer. I see guys do a set then carry on a conversation immediately after. When I finish a set I pace trying to get my wind back for many hard exercises. About two years ago a bench and curl type guy said to me I was really out of shape by the way I was breathing. While a good bencher I don't think he embraced training to failure. On a side note I know I am in much better condition than my criticizer who by the looks of him couldn't run around a block without keeling over. 

Awhile back maybe 15 years ago my job that I since retired from sent a few of the guys over to a high intensity gym in Belmar NJ. The gym was a shrine to Arthur Jones. The owner really embraced everything Jones said about exercise. It had only machines made by Jones. A complete line of Nautilus and MetX machines. My job had me on a week course involving exercise. On one field trip from the course they wanted us to learn about high intensity training which led the class to this gym.  The owner asked for a volunteer and my hand went up. I was confident in my ability to work hard. Famous last thought not knowing the torture he would put me through.

 He said something to the effect I will now show you how little time you need to work out but it will be brutal. I don't recall  everything he put me through but it was over in I think 20 minutes. I think he had me do 7 exercises for a whole body routine.  It started with the Nautilus leg press to failure with forced reps with him yelling at me to get more reps. I stood up and thought this was brutal and he immediately put me on an exercise bike and said sprint. He watched the controls and yelled for me to speed up if I dipped. I was only on the bike for maybe two minutes but the resistance was high. He then put me on a Metx pullover machine I believe.  My memory is fuzzy. Same protocol with forced reps after failure and another jump on the bike. It went on for 7 machines in total. When I was done I was sick. He told me to lie on the floor so I wouldn't bang my head if I pass out. He complimented me on not puking. While I completely exhausted my self in around 20 minutes covering my whole body and it surely kept my heart rate at the red line of the tach I wondered who could work out like this on a regular basis? He said he would only recommend a work out like this for two days max a week. He said the bike could even be cut out as I progressed. He has since sold the gym and moved to Florida. The owner had an abnormally thick neck as a side note.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33957
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1928 on: November 06, 2021, 05:46:58 AM »
If your experience tells you it works then keep doing it.

If not, then change.

Are you stronger, bigger, better?

Are you moving forward to your goals or not?

Something either works or it doesn't.


oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1929 on: November 06, 2021, 06:20:41 AM »
If your experience tells you it works then keep doing it.

If not, then change.

Are you stronger, bigger, better?

Are you moving forward to your goals or not?

Something either works or it doesn't.

I will never get stronger, faster, bigger or better at my age than I was in my 20's, 30's 40's and even 50's. I just hope to be the best I can be at my present age. As far as change it helps with goals. A runner trains in cycles.  First cycle is slow distance. Next cycle is short distance with more intensity. Moving through the cycles is high intensity intervals. Just wondering if a cycle on lifting volume would do me good? As you can tell I'm a broken record with my training. I'm happy with the results but of course if I didn't think I could do better there would be no point in the endeavor would it?

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33957
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1930 on: November 06, 2021, 11:21:00 AM »
Well, you could change things up for a few weeks to break the monotony.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1931 on: November 07, 2021, 06:02:33 AM »
My standard split in general is Monday, Back and chest.  Wednesday is legs. Friday is delt and arms then two days off.  It works well for me.  I know many will say you need to work out body parts more than once a week but I do because of over lap.  On back day all the pulling is getting biceps hard. No way from a kinesiology analysis can you avoid the bicep involvement. On Friday biceps gets hit directly again on arm day. Another example is legs get their own day on Wednesday but on back day Monday they are hit hard when I do either power cleans or deadlifts. On it goes. Triceps are being hit hard on chest day with the pushing on Monday and again hit on arm day on Friday.  I could go on for each body part but you get the drift.

 I enjoy hitting a body part with several different exercises to use exercises that work mid range, stretch and the contracted position.  An example is dips or close grips for midrange triceps, Single dumbbell behind the neck with two hands for stretch position and something like two hand kick backs to emphasize the contracted position. 

The split I use the majority of the time also gives me four days off. On two of those days I try to get a run in with some boxing drills that I enjoy. 

I really enjoy hearing how others work out whether it's cross fit, running, martial arts, body weight or weight training.  I see the swing in weight training today seems to be away from the standard 8 to 12 reps into high reps.  I understand why many are going to it. It can be really brutal. I think the guy leading the way for this is this youtuber Ryan Humiston.  He said in effect that adding weight to do a set of 8 is easier that trying to do four sets of 20 with little rest between sets. He sometimes does a single century set (100 reps) and that sounds brutal. He gives the example of how he sometimes does that with squats or hacks.  I saw a couple of videos of the pro Kai Greene that uses high reps. On the video I watched he did three sets of an exercise hitting 20 reps on set one. Around 15 reps on set two and around 12 reps on set three. I'm sure some would argue that what ever a drug using guy does in the weight room isn't proof of a valid training protocol. If intensity was the magic bullet of training we would all be doing something like 4 sets of one rep after warm up. That's the most intense training we could do.  I think Humiston might be on to something. Maybe muscular endurance is the magic bullet of muscle growth.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33957
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1932 on: November 07, 2021, 07:04:41 AM »
I've busted your balls in the other threads but seriously, you could look at high volume training as a combination of weight training and cardio.

Serge Nubret said he didn't do cardio because he got his cardio from his high volume workout.

In addition he did an hour straight of non-stop abs.

You train with multiple sets and short rests between sets. 

4-6 exercises per bodypart, 6-8 sets of 12 reps per exercise, 1 minute rests, six days a week split.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1933 on: November 07, 2021, 09:44:03 AM »
I've busted your balls in the other threads but seriously, you could look at high volume training as a combination of weight training and cardio.

Serge Nubret said he didn't do cardio because he got his cardio from his high volume workout.

In addition he did an hour straight of non-stop abs.

You train with multiple sets and short rests between sets. 

4-6 exercises per bodypart, 6-8 sets of 12 reps per exercise, 1 minute rests, six days a week split.

No doubt training with volume burns calories. The most ripped bodybuilder I ever saw back in the day was Joe Means. He was the most muscular man in the 1976 or 75 AAU Mr. America.  He did super sets, tri sets and giant sets. He trained six days a week. At the time he didn't do any cardio.  Surely his method burned up a ton of calories and got him in condition without cardio. Now that he doesn't compete in his late 60's he does a ridiculous amount of cardio on his bike combined with his weight training.

Regarding busting my balls it really has no effect on me. I don't know you so I don't value any negativity you put on me.

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1934 on: November 07, 2021, 11:35:49 AM »
I just ran across this article and thought it was hilarious. DeFranco's Training Rules for Washed-up Meatheads. Here's the link. Hope you get a laugh out of it.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/defrancos-training-rules-for-washed-up-meatheads/

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1935 on: November 07, 2021, 02:11:29 PM »
I just ran across this article and thought it was hilarious. DeFranco's Training Rules for Washed-up Meatheads. Here's the link. Hope you get a laugh out of it.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/defrancos-training-rules-for-washed-up-meatheads/


I actually know his father well. He was my boss and a beast of a weight trainer. That's a picture of his father holding the single dumbbell. DeFranco the son opened a gym in a rich area of Jersey near where many of the Giants and Jets players lived. Yes they trained at his gym.

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1936 on: November 07, 2021, 02:15:57 PM »


I actually know his father well. He was my boss and a beast of a weight trainer. That's a picture of his father holding the single dumbbell.

Is it a current photo? He looks great for a mature fellow.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1937 on: November 07, 2021, 02:23:02 PM »
Is it a current photo? He looks great for a mature fellow.

No it isn't. He's probably around his early 70's now. I think he was the second in the world in arm wrestling and benched drug free and shirt free  440lbs.

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1938 on: November 07, 2021, 02:28:46 PM »
No it isn't. He's probably around his early 70's now. I think he was the second in the world in arm wrestling and benched drug free and shirt free of 440lbs.

It's a relief that he's not in his 70's in that photo, because he sure looks a lot better built than I do these days. I did put some weight back on after posting that skinny photo of myself. Skinny may be healthier, but not looking like a scarecrow makes me feel better. 

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1939 on: November 07, 2021, 02:33:40 PM »
Trained delts and arms:

Military press 2 x 8 (video taped myself. I could have gone three to four inches deeper. I will work on it.)
Dumbbell laterals 2 x 12
Cable one arm delt lateral 1 x 10
Rear dumbbell laterals 2 x 10
Rope pulls 2 x 12
Barbell shrugs 2 x 10

weighted dips 2 x 12
Close grip bench 1 x 8 ( I can't get my safety bars positioned right with my ez curl bar. Going narrow with a straight bar hurts my wrist. The ez bar feels perfect. I don't feel safe doing these without a safety spotting bar)
Reverse grip pulley tricep extensions using two hands 2  x 10
Dumbbell one arm behind the head extension 1 x 12

Alternate dumbbell curls 2 x 8
Drag barbell curls 2 x 12
Scott dumbbell curl 1 x 10
concentration curls 1  x12

Forearm wrist curls 2  x 25
Reverse wrist extensions 2 x 15

Weighted crunches 1 x 50
Pulley crunches 1 x 30

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1940 on: November 07, 2021, 02:42:50 PM »
It's a relief that he's not in his 70's in that photo, because he sure looks a lot better built than I do these days. I did put some weight back on after posting that skinny photo of myself. Skinny may be healthier, but not looking like a scarecrow makes me feel better.

I bet he's in his mid 60's in that picture. He has always been in incredible shape. Year in and year out every month of the year he was in shape. Now that I think about it he's 74 I believe now. I haven't seen him in years but I have no doubt unless because of illness he's still built. He was a tough bastard and didn't suffer fools without consequences. 

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1941 on: November 10, 2021, 03:48:11 PM »
Did a Yates type one set to failure Chest and bicep day.

Dumbbell flat bench 1 x 8
Decline dumbbell bench 1 x 10
Flat flies 1 x 14
Push ups 1 x max

EZ Curl 1 x 15
Alternate dumbbell curls 1 x 10
Drag barbell curls 1 x 14
Concentration curl 1 x 13

Wrist curls 1 x 30
Wrist extension 1 x 25

Incline sit ups 1 x 27
Pulley crunches 1 x 40

I think I will try to get three days of cardio in this week if things work out.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1942 on: November 11, 2021, 12:24:53 PM »
Leg day:  Knees make a lot of cracking sounds but little pain.  No warm ups listed. One set to failure. I do a warm up set or two on some exercises. Others don't even get one warm up. The leg press gets two warm up sets. The squat machine none as well as the dumbbell squat. Stiff gets one warm up. Leg extension and leg curls get none. Just to give an example.

Leg press 1 x 12
Squat machine 1 x 10
Dumbbell squat 1 x 12
stiff dead 1x 8
leg extension 1 x 23
seated leg curl 1 x 17

Hanging leg raise 1 x 27
Hip ups 1 x 32

Standing calf 1 x 20
Seated calf 1 x 21
tib 1x 21

neck four way machine 1 x 30 all directions


Off to Atlantic city for a stay over.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1943 on: November 13, 2021, 05:24:32 PM »
Back:

MAG grip supinate pulldowns 1 x 11 145lbs (Upright and all the way down in a smooth cadence. No lean back and heave)
Seated lat pulley rows with a V handle 1 x 14 180lbs (All the way out and all the way back)
Dumbbell lat rows off a bench 1 x 12 85lbs ( dead hang and all the way up.  slow cadence)
Mag narrow grip supinate pulldowns 1 x 14 125lbs ( these feel great)

Deadlift 1 x 6 315lbs (last rep was at the ragged edge for me.  Made me think this is how injuries happen.)
Weighted back hyper extension 1 x 20 (Held a 25lbs plate behind my head.  Used an old school horizontal hyper bench instead of the easier 45 degree one that's in fashion now)

ab wheel roll out 1 x 27
Pulley crunches 1 x 14

Went over my daughter to help her out after with home repair stuff. She bought a fixer upper house and it's has endless fixes going on.  At least she got it cheap because no one wanted it.  Looked like homeless hobos were living in it before and it's beginning to look really nice now. An example of this is a burn mark on the rug that looks like they had some kind of hot plate on it. At least the weird smells are gone.  She has another year of getting the place fixed but it's coming together nicely.  My son from the Army was staying with her and I'm glad he helped me out.  We watched UFC after. Max Holloway won but you wouldn't know it from his face. My face was marked from a heat duct cover falling out of the dry wall cracking me on my face. 

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1944 on: November 13, 2021, 05:38:14 PM »
Leg day:  Knees make a lot of cracking sounds but little pain.  No warm ups listed. One set to failure. I do a warm up set or two on some exercises. Others don't even get one warm up. The leg press gets two warm up sets. The squat machine none as well as the dumbbell squat. Stiff gets one warm up. Leg extension and leg curls get none. Just to give an example.

Leg press 1 x 12
Squat machine 1 x 10
Dumbbell squat 1 x 12
stiff dead 1x 8
leg extension 1 x 23
seated leg curl 1 x 17

Hanging leg raise 1 x 27
Hip ups 1 x 32

Standing calf 1 x 20
Seated calf 1 x 21
tib 1x 21

neck four way machine 1 x 30 all directions


Off to Atlantic city for a stay over.

Interesting 1 set of each exercise. Same thing I'm doing using the bands. For me the one downside is that I run out of steam before I run out of strength. For example the first exercise in routine 1 is chest. I can get to 40 reps with not too much effort. The next exercise is triceps. I'm winded long before 40 reps and will sometimes break into 2 sets. This reminds me of something I read that Arnold S. said about reps. I think it was pullups. The idea was to do 50 reps by doing as many as you could with each set until you reached a total of 50. I've been apply this philosophy to working out with the bands and it has helped. 

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40920
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1945 on: November 13, 2021, 05:41:05 PM »
Back:

MAG grip supinate pulldowns 1 x 11 145lbs (Upright and all the way down in a smooth cadence. No lean back and heave)
Seated lat pulley rows with a V handle 1 x 14 180lbs (All the way out and all the way back)
Dumbbell lat rows off a bench 1 x 12 85lbs ( dead hang and all the way up.  slow cadence)
Mag narrow grip supinate pulldowns 1 x 14 125lbs ( these feel great)

Deadlift 1 x 6 315lbs (last rep was at the ragged edge for me.  Made me think this how injuries happen.)
Weighted back hyper extension 1 x 20 (Held a 25lbs plate behind my head.  Used an old school horizontal hyper bench instead of the easier 45 degree one that's in fashion now)

ab wheel roll out 1 x 27
Pulley crunches 1 x 14

Went over my daughter to help her out after with home repair stuff. She bought a fixer upper house and it's has endless fixes going on.  At least she got it cheap because no one wanted it.  Looked like homeless hobos were living in it before and it beginning to look really nice now. An example of this is a burn mark on the rug that looks like they had some kind of hot plate on it. At least the weird smells are gone.  She has another year of getting the place fixed but it's coming together nicely.  My son from the Army was staying with her and I'm glad he helped me out.  We watched UFC after. Max Holloway won but you wouldn't know it from his face. My face was marked from a heat duct cover falling out of the dry wall cracking me on my face.

So you had a face full of narrow parallel lines or a waffle pattern?

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1946 on: November 14, 2021, 04:02:20 PM »
Delt and triceps: No warm ups shown.

Dumbbell delt press standing 1 x 11
Dumbbell delt laterals 1 x 17
Rear dumbbell delt laterals 1 x 14
Face pulls 1 x 13
barbell shrugs 1 x 13

Weighted dips 1 x 15
Narrow grip bench 1 x 8 (used an olympic bar this time. Not as comfortable as the EZ bar but I can use an Olympic bar with my spotting rack.
Single dumbbell two hand tricep extension seated using a turned around scott bench to lean on. 1 x 13
Reverse grip pulley tricep extension single arm 1 x 15

Weighted crunches 1 x 60
Weighted pulley crunches 1 x 55

I have elbow pain and trying to find exercises that don't aggravate it. My selection today accomplished this.  Some tricep exercises like skull crushers and others make my elbow throb for days. Zero pain today with these choices. I really love the military press with a barbell. Love cleaning it and pressing through the greatest range of motion I can but they can be hard on the rotator cuff as it braces to keep it in the groove. I find zero discomfort with delt dumbbell presses. I will still use the military press but I know where to go when my shoulders need a break.

Going to try to really wake up early before work and to get on the treadmill tomorrow.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1947 on: November 15, 2021, 07:01:38 PM »
Did a fast walking treadmill workout today. Walked at 3.8 MPH. Started at 0% level grade but every lap (quarter mile) I upped the incline 1%. I went up to and completed a 8% grade. Finished a final lap at 0% grade. Just to remind my legs about running I ran a lap at a 8 minute mile pace or 7.5 MPH when I finished my walking thing.  Hit the heavy bag after. I think I will stick to fast walking for a week before I break into running again.

Tomorrow I hope to do the same workout but I will finish a 9% grade. I know from previous experience that when I get up to a 12% grade I'm good to start running again. I would strongly urge anyone who wants to get involved in running but hasn't run for ages to commit to a fast walking program using the incline function like the one I am doing. It really primes the legs and heart for a running program.  If you are 30 years old disregard about my thoughts about breaking into running with a walking program. Take your lazy ass out on the street and pound the pavement running.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1948 on: November 16, 2021, 05:24:22 AM »
Same thing as yesterday. Walked at 3.8 MPH at 0% grade (incline) and each lap I went up a grade till I completed 9% grade. Final lap was 0% grade.  I then ran at 7:48 pace for a quarter mile and cooled down at 3.8 MPH for a quarter mile. No boxing drills today. While I'm doing these walking drills I find it's always good to end with a running lap for a quarter mile. The purpose of the walking program is to prepare for real running and it's good to remind your legs, lungs and heart what it means to run.  Next time I will walk going up 1% of incline for each quarter mile lap till I complete 10%. Then I will run a lap at 7:30 mile as a running reminder to my body.

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17325
  • Getbig!
Re: Oldtimer1
« Reply #1949 on: November 17, 2021, 07:05:43 PM »
I wanted to lift but I felt burned out. I played with clean and jerks. I did four sets with light weight. I realize with certainty there are things I shouldn't be doing at my age and one of them are jerks. I don't have the flexibility to rack the weight properly. A lot of the force from my legs after the jerk dip is being transferred right to my shoulders  and rotator cuffs that are in a bad position because of the bad rack. I don't want to tempt fate. If I do Power cleans I won't be jerking the weight over head.

What I should be doing I think at this stage are old fashion split snatches alternating legs.  It doesn't require the flexibility to get my fingers back and my elbows up. Bill Starr the NFL trainer wrote that the snatch can actually be a better exercise for older trainers with shoulder issues. I got on a snatch kick awhile back and I realized I was never going to be able to use heavy weights with it but it was still a great exercise for power. I use to do 2 x 4 then 2 x 2 alternating legs.