For Those Of You That Believe Saddam Had Nothing To Do With Terrorism.....

[BRUCE]

Recently, we've had BayGBM here trivialising the death of US soldiers in Iraq as 'wasted' lives.  His basis for this claim was that Saddam Hussein was of no threat to American lives, and therefore the Iraq war was unjust.  Clearly, I disagree with this point of view, and take great offence to those that would attempt to belittle the unimaginably brave efforts of the coalition forces.  Here's why I feel this way:

Saddam Hussein Financed Terrorists in Israel:

Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying "bonuses" of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein's own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.   

“President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000,” Aziz, announced at a Baghdad meeting of Arab politicians and businessmen on March 11, 2002, Reuters reported the next day.

I'll let you visit my link to view the appalling photos of death that resulted from this funding.

Saddam's Iraq Harboured Known Terrorists

Terror mastermind Abu Nidal also enjoyed his hospitality.   
 
Abu Nidal, Iraqi-supported terrorist

Nidal lived comfortably in Iraq between 1999 and August 2002. As the Associated Press reported on August 21, 2002, Nidal’s Beirut office said he entered Iraq “with the full knowledge and preparations of the Iraqi authorities.” 13 Prior to his relocation, he ran the eponymous Abu Nidal Organization — a Palestinian terror network behind attacks in 20 countries, at least 407 confirmed murders, and some 788 other terror-related injuries. Among other savage acts, Nidal’s group used guns and grenades to attack a ticket counter at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci airport on December 27, 1985. Another cell in Austria simultaneously assaulted Vienna’s airport, killing 19 people.   

You may know Abu Nidal as the man that created the bombs for the 1993 World Trade Centre bombings.  Yes, Saddam housed a man that had played the key role in the death of 6 Americans.

Here are some other Americans he helped kill:

The New York Times reports that Abu Nidal's Fatah Revolutionary Council murdered the following 17 Americans, at a minimum:

Americans killed in the Abu Nidal Organization's December 27, 1985 attack on Rome's airport:

*John Buonocore III, 20, of Wilmington, Delaware

*Frederick Gage of Madison, Wisconsin

*Natasha Simpson, 11, of New York

*Don Maland of New Port Richey, Florida

*Elena Tomarello, 67, of Naples, Florida

The New York Times, December 29, 1985

American executed during ANO's 1986 hijacking of a Pan Am jet at Karachi, Pakistan's airport:

*Rajesh Kumar of Huntington Beach, California

The New York Times, September 7, 1986

Americans slaughtered in ANO's September 8, 1974 bombing of a TWA jet over the Ionian Sea en route from Israel to Greece, killing all 88 aboard:

*Eitan Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Seldon Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Ralph H. Bosh of Madison, Connecticut

*Jon L. Cheshire of Old Lyme, Connecticut

*Jeremiah Hadley of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Katherine Hadley Michel of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Frederick Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Margaret Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Don H. Holliday of Mahwah, New Jersey

*Dr. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

*Mrs. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

The New York Times, September 10, 1974


And the list goes on.  I could provide you all with an even more extensive list of the ways in which Saddam's tyrannical regime helped murder innocent Americans and others, or you could just visit this excellent website and read for yourself:

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

My point here is, of course, that anyone who believes Saddam Hussein was of no threat to Americans (or other innocent civilians) is seriously mistaken.  Saddam was assisting known terrorists from their Middle East cradle to their eventual graves.

America was right to remove this despot, and the world is a far safer place without him.  Dead American soldiers are heroes in every right, and do not deserve to have their sacrifices trivialised.

[OzmO]

I can respect the alarm produced when viewing grizzly photographs and hearing of a $25K bounty for terrorist acts. 

However,  this not substantial, nor is it all that significant.

Let's start with the $25K awarded to Palestinian suicide bombers.

here's what it says:

Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying "bonuses" of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein's own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.

Now, unless the USA is a province of Israel that was not directed at America. 

Even if it was, did anything ever happen as a result?  Did an army of palistinians run over here and start suicide bombing us?  NO.  Al Queda from Afghanistan took care of that and we took care of them.

Next let's talk about Abu Nidal.

He's the one of the accomplices who help in the 1993 WTC bombing resulting in the death of 6 Americans.  And he entered Iraq in 1999?  After he had a hand in a string of terrorist acts from 1974 to 1986?

Maybe we should have just pressured Saddam to hand him over in stead of incurring 400 billion in debt and counting, 3000+ American deaths and counting, and 20,000 wounded while currently embroiled in an insurgency and near civil war?

Those six lives were worth all that?

While we are at this:  Did more people die from cancer, car accidents, drive bys, waiting in an emergency room, heart attacks, malpractice, unsafe public transportation, obesity, shark attack, CHILD ABUSE, Spousal abuse, etc..   than 6 people?  why haven't we committed 400 billion to stop all those things?


Saddam is a mobster.  Plain and simple.  Mobsters can be easily bought off.  He was bought off by his lust for power and money which he had and wasn't going to do anything to let go of it.

He was an easy target for a sales pitch that so many suckers bought into.

You don't think Saudi has some similar skeletons in their closets?  What about Israel spying on us? and Syria?  And the Vatican?  Fuck it,  they are worth more than 6 deaths let's invade!  (sarcasm)

Bottom line is this:

It's the people who are not swayed by power and riches that you must worry about:

People like the ones running Iran, who will kill you on principle and believe they will have 40 virgins as a reward in heaven.

Saddam could have been used to help with Iran.  But Iraq's oil was more valuable.  I might be incline to agree, but just wait till Iran has operational nuclear missiles, then we should decide.


(let the fire storm begin!  and someone actually said this was a liberal board!  lol)

[Dos Equis]

Recently, we've had BayGBM here trivialising the death of US soldiers in Iraq as 'wasted' lives.  His basis for this claim was that Saddam Hussein was of no threat to American lives, and therefore the Iraq war was unjust.  Clearly, I disagree with this point of view, and take great offence to those that would attempt to belittle the unimaginably brave efforts of the coalition forces.  Here's why I feel this way:

Saddam Hussein Financed Terrorists in Israel:

Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying "bonuses" of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein's own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.   

“President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000,” Aziz, announced at a Baghdad meeting of Arab politicians and businessmen on March 11, 2002, Reuters reported the next day.

I'll let you visit my link to view the appalling photos of death that resulted from this funding.

Saddam's Iraq Harboured Known Terrorists

Terror mastermind Abu Nidal also enjoyed his hospitality.   
 
Abu Nidal, Iraqi-supported terrorist

Nidal lived comfortably in Iraq between 1999 and August 2002. As the Associated Press reported on August 21, 2002, Nidal’s Beirut office said he entered Iraq “with the full knowledge and preparations of the Iraqi authorities.” 13 Prior to his relocation, he ran the eponymous Abu Nidal Organization — a Palestinian terror network behind attacks in 20 countries, at least 407 confirmed murders, and some 788 other terror-related injuries. Among other savage acts, Nidal’s group used guns and grenades to attack a ticket counter at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci airport on December 27, 1985. Another cell in Austria simultaneously assaulted Vienna’s airport, killing 19 people.   

You may know Abu Nidal as the man that created the bombs for the 1993 World Trade Centre bombings.  Yes, Saddam housed a man that had played the key role in the death of 6 Americans.

Here are some other Americans he helped kill:

The New York Times reports that Abu Nidal's Fatah Revolutionary Council murdered the following 17 Americans, at a minimum:

Americans killed in the Abu Nidal Organization's December 27, 1985 attack on Rome's airport:

*John Buonocore III, 20, of Wilmington, Delaware

*Frederick Gage of Madison, Wisconsin

*Natasha Simpson, 11, of New York

*Don Maland of New Port Richey, Florida

*Elena Tomarello, 67, of Naples, Florida

The New York Times, December 29, 1985

American executed during ANO's 1986 hijacking of a Pan Am jet at Karachi, Pakistan's airport:

*Rajesh Kumar of Huntington Beach, California

The New York Times, September 7, 1986

Americans slaughtered in ANO's September 8, 1974 bombing of a TWA jet over the Ionian Sea en route from Israel to Greece, killing all 88 aboard:

*Eitan Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Seldon Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Ralph H. Bosh of Madison, Connecticut

*Jon L. Cheshire of Old Lyme, Connecticut

*Jeremiah Hadley of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Katherine Hadley Michel of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Frederick Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Margaret Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Don H. Holliday of Mahwah, New Jersey

*Dr. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

*Mrs. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

The New York Times, September 10, 1974


And the list goes on.  I could provide you all with an even more extensive list of the ways in which Saddam's tyrannical regime helped murder innocent Americans and others, or you could just visit this excellent website and read for yourself:

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

My point here is, of course, that anyone who believes Saddam Hussein was of no threat to Americans (or other innocent civilians) is seriously mistaken.  Saddam was assisting known terrorists from their Middle East cradle to their eventual graves.

America was right to remove this despot, and the world is a far safer place without him.  Dead American soldiers are heroes in every right, and do not deserve to have their sacrifices trivialised.

Excellent Bruce.  I completely agree.  This is a point I've tried to make many times too.  It is one of the reasons (sponsoring terrorism) Saddam needed to go.

I also completely agree that our soldiers are heroes. 

[OzmO]

Excellent Bruce.  I completely agree.  This is a point I've tried to make many times too.  It is one of the reasons (sponsoring terrorism) Saddam needed to go.

I also completely agree that our soldiers are heroes. 

A quick little thing before this potential storm gets out of hand:

I don't at the moment think pulling out is the answer.

Those troops needs America's full support right now and everyone of them deserve respect and thanks from every American citizen.

[240 is Back]

nobody said saddam wasn't an asshole who supported terror.

however, he didn't fvck with the US, and he had nothing to do with 9/11.

Is the world better without him? Of course.
Was removing him worth 3000 American lives?  Hell no.

[Dos Equis]

A quick little thing before this potential storm gets out of hand:

I don't at the moment think pulling out is the answer.

Those troops needs America's full support right now and everyone of them deserve respect and thanks from every American citizen.

I'm actually conflicted about a pullout.  One of my close friends there is really disillusioned and that has a big impact on how I view our role.  This is a guy with 20+ years in the service.  

I agree about the support and respect that our troops need.  That support and respect cannot include telling them their comrades' lives were wasted.      

[ToxicAvenger]

Recently, we've had BayGBM here trivialising the death of US soldiers in Iraq as 'wasted' lives.  His basis for this claim was that Saddam Hussein was of no threat to American lives, and therefore the Iraq war was unjust.  Clearly, I disagree with this point of view, and take great offence to those that would attempt to belittle the unimaginably brave efforts of the coalition forces.  Here's why I feel this way:

Saddam Hussein Financed Terrorists in Israel:

Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying "bonuses" of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein's own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.   

“President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000,” Aziz, announced at a Baghdad meeting of Arab politicians and businessmen on March 11, 2002, Reuters reported the next day.

I'll let you visit my link to view the appalling photos of death that resulted from this funding.

Saddam's Iraq Harboured Known Terrorists

Terror mastermind Abu Nidal also enjoyed his hospitality.   
 
Abu Nidal, Iraqi-supported terrorist

Nidal lived comfortably in Iraq between 1999 and August 2002. As the Associated Press reported on August 21, 2002, Nidal’s Beirut office said he entered Iraq “with the full knowledge and preparations of the Iraqi authorities.” 13 Prior to his relocation, he ran the eponymous Abu Nidal Organization — a Palestinian terror network behind attacks in 20 countries, at least 407 confirmed murders, and some 788 other terror-related injuries. Among other savage acts, Nidal’s group used guns and grenades to attack a ticket counter at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci airport on December 27, 1985. Another cell in Austria simultaneously assaulted Vienna’s airport, killing 19 people.   

You may know Abu Nidal as the man that created the bombs for the 1993 World Trade Centre bombings.  Yes, Saddam housed a man that had played the key role in the death of 6 Americans.

Here are some other Americans he helped kill:

The New York Times reports that Abu Nidal's Fatah Revolutionary Council murdered the following 17 Americans, at a minimum:

Americans killed in the Abu Nidal Organization's December 27, 1985 attack on Rome's airport:

*John Buonocore III, 20, of Wilmington, Delaware

*Frederick Gage of Madison, Wisconsin

*Natasha Simpson, 11, of New York

*Don Maland of New Port Richey, Florida

*Elena Tomarello, 67, of Naples, Florida

The New York Times, December 29, 1985

American executed during ANO's 1986 hijacking of a Pan Am jet at Karachi, Pakistan's airport:

*Rajesh Kumar of Huntington Beach, California

The New York Times, September 7, 1986

Americans slaughtered in ANO's September 8, 1974 bombing of a TWA jet over the Ionian Sea en route from Israel to Greece, killing all 88 aboard:

*Eitan Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Seldon Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Ralph H. Bosh of Madison, Connecticut

*Jon L. Cheshire of Old Lyme, Connecticut

*Jeremiah Hadley of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Katherine Hadley Michel of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Frederick Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Margaret Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Don H. Holliday of Mahwah, New Jersey

*Dr. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

*Mrs. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

The New York Times, September 10, 1974


And the list goes on.  I could provide you all with an even more extensive list of the ways in which Saddam's tyrannical regime helped murder innocent Americans and others, or you could just visit this excellent website and read for yourself:

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

My point here is, of course, that anyone who believes Saddam Hussein was of no threat to Americans (or other innocent civilians) is seriously mistaken.  Saddam was assisting known terrorists from their Middle East cradle to their eventual graves.

America was right to remove this despot, and the world is a far safer place without him.  Dead American soldiers are heroes in every right, and do not deserve to have their sacrifices trivialised.

sad rummie and bush 1 were friends with a terrorist eh...

[OzmO]

I'm actually conflicted about a pullout.  One of my close friends there is really disillusioned and that has a big impact on how I view our role.  This is a guy with 20+ years in the service. 

I agree about the support and respect that our troops need.  That support and respect cannot include telling them their comrades' lives were wasted.     

i understand that.  But if one thinks the iraq should have never happened what would you call their sacrifices? 

I wouldn't call them wasted.  I believe they died fighting for something they believed in.  They believe they were doing the right thing.  That's the way it is in every war.

I believe the war unnecessary.    1 year or so after the invasion fo iraq i was in Las Vegas drinking it up with a bunch of Marines and their wives who were back from Iraq and they doing some deal where they get all dressed up and have some ball, can't remember what it was called.  Anyways before i left, i personally thank everyone of them from what they were doing, the sacrifices they were making.  i meant every word.

I can do this even though i don't believe we should have invaded Iraq.

[240 is Back]

I'm actually conflicted about a pullout.  One of my close friends there is really disillusioned and that has a big impact on how I view our role.  This is a guy with 20+ years in the service.  

I agree about the support and respect that our troops need.  That support and respect cannot include telling them their comrades' lives were wasted.      

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude...

Pull out of the cities and guard the border, oil pipeline/infrastructure, and US bases in Iraq.

Allow the Iraqis to get rough in the cities without US supervision and CNN cameras.  They will succeed.

We stop losing men, but we don't sacrific the regional resources and position we've worked this hard for.

it's a reasonable compromise.

[ieffinhatecardio]

From an article published on March 17, 2005.

Two years ago today - when President George Bush announced US, British and Allied forces would begin to bomb Baghdad - protesters claimed the US had a secret plan for Iraq's oil once Saddam had been conquered.

In fact there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists".

"Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants.

Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

[240 is Back]

What did they die for?  Tell the families and history that they died liberating and keeping Iraq safe.

But they need to stop dying.  Leave the cities.  There will be this same lever of violence in 5 years.  We've throw everything we legally could at it for 4+ years, and nothing has changed.  

IMO, they died for oil and regional control.  In your opinion, maybe it was freedom.  Whatever, it's history now.  But for god's sake, stop losing US forces.  Pull em out of the cities.

[BRUCE]

What foolishness - let me deal with this appalling diatribe piece by piece:

I can respect the alarm produced when viewing grizzly photographs and hearing of a $25K bounty for terrorist acts.  

However,  this not substantial, nor is it all that significant.

Oh, if you say so.  For everyone else, a crazed tyrant using his government’s funds to reward and encourage acts of terror is a horrendous act of despotism.  Not ‘significant’?  Maybe if you don’t mind the thought of your fellow citizens being blown to smithereens for nothing more than sitting down for a meal.

Let's start with the $25K awarded to Palestinian suicide bombers.
here's what it says:
Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying "bonuses" of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein's own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.
Now, unless the USA is a province of Israel that was not directed at America.
 

If you have ever seen a map of the World, you may notice that Israel is far more proximate to Iraq than the mighty US.  With further investigation, you may even find out they’re one of the US’s closest allies.  Add to this Saddam’s harbouring of the bomb artist from WTC 1993 and your argument evaporates as quickly as your common sense has.  But hey, who cares if American civilians get slaughtered outside of their home country, right?

Next let's talk about Abu Nidal.
He's the one of the accomplices who help in the 1993 WTC bombing resulting in the death of 6 Americans.  And he entered Iraq in 1999?  After he had a hand in a string of terrorist acts from 1974 to 1986?
Maybe we should have just pressured Saddam to hand him over in stead of incurring 400 billion in debt and counting, 3000+ American deaths and counting, and 20,000 wounded while currently embroiled in an insurgency and near civil war?
Those six lives were worth all that?
 

Actually, as my post illustrated to you, he’s been integral in the terror driven deaths of far more than six Americans.  Again, your tendency to downplay your fellow citizens being dismembered by explosives is worrying, to say the least.  Does it occur to you that if Saddam would be seen to support such men, that he would certainly use more powerful weapons given the chance?  Or are you foolish enough to believe he had no intention of killing, or supporting the killing, of more Americans?

While we are at this:  Did more people die from cancer, car accidents, drive bys, waiting in an emergency room, heart attacks, malpractice, unsafe public transportation, obesity, shark attack, CHILD ABUSE, Spousal abuse, etc..   than 6 people?  why haven't we committed 400 billion to stop all those things?

We don’t commit massive amounts of resources to the above mentioned already?  Allow me to explain the difference.   A person that dies from cancer in America does so in one of the World’s finest medical systems.  They die as a free person from something that is most likely an indiscriminate disease.  And it’s pseudo-logic at its best if your position is that we shouldn’t stop terrorists from killing our innocent because we’re not doing quite enough about ahem, shark attacks.

An American in the WTC 1993 that is dismembered by explosives dies as a person that is a victim of that very freedom.  They are annihilated by those that would seek to strip you and I of every right we have to coexist in this World – something you seem oddly comfortable with.  On top of this, Saddam Hussein supported these people with finance and safe housing.

Saddam is a mobster.  Plain and simple.  Mobsters can be easily bought off.  He was bought off by his lust for power and money which he had and wasn't going to do anything to let go of it.

Your seemingly strong inclination to defend Saddam as a mere ‘mobster’ is sickening.  No mobster that I know of has ever had the means to use WMD to kill thousands of his fellow citizens.  Saddam was a villainous despot, and your casual brushing off of his evil ways speaks wonders of your character.  

You don't think Saudi has some similar skeletons in their closets?  What about Israel spying on us? and Syria?  And the Vatican?  Fuck it,  they are worth more than 6 deaths let's invade!  (sarcasm)

You’ll no doubt be able to point out the last time Israel or (cough) the Vatican was involved in the cold blooded murder of Americans.  If not, what an outrageously idiotic thing to say.

Bottom line is this:
It's the people who are not swayed by power and riches that you must worry about:
People like the ones running Iran, who will kill you on principle and believe they will have 40 virgins as a reward in heaven.
Saddam could have been used to help with Iran.  But Iraq's oil was more valuable.  I might be incline to agree, but just wait till Iran has operational nuclear missiles, then we should decide.

I am all for disarming Iran, but if you’re trying to tell me Saddam shouldn’t have been removed from power because Iran is worse, then you’re lost.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Iraq's massive oil reserves, the third-largest in the world, are about to be thrown open for large-scale exploitation by Western oil companies under a controversial law which is expected to come before the Iraqi parliament within days.

The US government has been involved in drawing up the law, a draft of which has been seen by The Independent on Sunday. It would give big oil companies such as BP, Shell and Exxon 30-year contracts to extract Iraqi crude and allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil interests in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972.

The huge potential prizes for Western firms will give ammunition to critics who say the Iraq war was fought for oil. They point to statements such as one from Vice-President Dick Cheney, who said in 1999, while he was still chief executive of the oil services company Halliburton, that the world would need an additional 50 million barrels of oil a day by 2010. "So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies," he said.

http://www.drudge.com/news/90987/big-oil-takes-over-iraq

[BRUCE]

nobody said saddam wasn't an asshole who supported terror.

however, he didn't fvck with the US

I just proved he did have a whole lot to do with this: you should change your position.

[240 is Back]

From an article published on March 17, 2005.

Two years ago today - when President George Bush announced US, British and Allied forces would begin to bomb Baghdad - protesters claimed the US had a secret plan for Iraq's oil once Saddam had been conquered.

In fact there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists".

"Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants.

Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

Guys, we NEEDED a large oil reserve.  Cheney worked like crazy during the Clinton Admin to set one up using his firm Haliburton, with the taleban.   Why do you think Bush chose Cheney?

This was long planned - the PNAC 2000 document wrote about it too.  It is what it is, world energy resource mgmt.  

[Dos Equis]

i understand that.  But if one thinks the iraq should have never happened what would you call their sacrifices? 

I wouldn't call them wasted.  I believe they died fighting for something they believed in.  They believe they were doing the right thing.  That's the way it is in every war.

I believe the war unnecessary.    1 year or so after the invasion fo iraq i was in Las Vegas drinking it up with a bunch of Marines and their wives who were back from Iraq and they doing some deal where they get all dressed up and have some ball, can't remember what it was called.  Anyways before i left, i personally thank everyone of them from what they were doing, the sacrifices they were making.  i meant every word.

I can do this even though i don't believe we should have invaded Iraq.

These brave men and women are serving their country.  Those who died, died serving their country.  There is no higher calling than to lay down your life in service for your country.  It doesn't matter whether any of us believe the war is just or not.  A slew of people believe the Vietnam war was improper and we lost tens of thousands of mainly young men.  Were those lives wasted?  You can find people in this country (often the same people or same types of people) who disagree with every military action we have been involved in.  That has no impact whatsoever on whether the soldiers who lost their lives on this conflicts are "wasted" deaths.  

I'm not questioning your commitment to our armed forces at all.  

[240 is Back]

I just proved he did have a whole lot to do with this: you should change your position.

Those 1985 deaths?  Um, he was on Reagan's payroll at the time.

[BRUCE]

Those 1985 deaths?  Um, he was on Reagan's payroll at the time.

He was?  Prove it then - you absolutely know you can't.

Also, he harboured a terrorists that bombed you WTC in 1993, is that not aiding terror?  Is that not helping kill US citizens?

AND, he paid off terrorists that killed Americans in Israel, what is unclear to you about this?

[240 is Back]

A slew of people believe the Vietnam war was improper and we lost tens of thousands of mainly young men.  Were those lives wasted?  You can find people in this country (often the same people or same types of people) who disagree with every military action we have been involved in.  That has no impact whatsoever on whether the soldiers who lost their lives on this conflicts are "wasted" deaths.  

When you fight a war and lose tens of thousands and achieve no military objectives, what would you call it?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Guys, we NEEDED a large oil reserve.  Cheney worked like crazy during the Clinton Admin to set one up using his firm Haliburton, with the taleban.   Why do you think Bush chose Cheney?

This was long planned - the PNAC 2000 document wrote about it too.  It is what it is, world energy resource mgmt. 

I thought the we invaded Iraq because Hussein was a threat to us here in the USA. Didn't we oust Saddam because he had WMD's and was harboring terrorists?

[BRUCE]

I thought the we invaded Iraq because Hussein was a threat to us here in the USA. Didn't we oust Saddam because he had WMD's and was harboring terrorists?

He had WMD at one point and he harboured terrorists, as I've shown above.

[Dos Equis]

When you fight a war and lose tens of thousands and achieve no military objectives, what would you call it?

I have no idea, because I cannot recall a war in which the United States military achieved "no military objectives."  

[240 is Back]

He was?  Prove it then - you absolutely know you can't.
Also, he harboured a terrorists that bombed you WTC in 1993, is that not aiding terror?  Is that not helping kill US citizens?
AND, he paid off terrorists that killed Americans in Israel, what is unclear to you about this?

you're pathetic, man.

I thought the we invaded Iraq because Hussein was a threat to us here in the USA. Didn't we oust Saddam because he had WMD's and was harboring terrorists?

it was a good storyline that made churchgoing folks proud to support.

C'mon, you know if you we said "we need to secure these resources for longterm US global supremacy", people wouldn't understand.  Completely necessary but they don't get it.  So you need a lie that lets them sleep.

[BRUCE]

you're pathetic, man.

Golly, is that your defence?  I hate to say it 240, but you just got exposed.

[ieffinhatecardio]

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said President Bush's former ghost writer.

"It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency."

Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. "Suddenly, he's at 91 percent in the polls, and he'd barely crawled out of the bunker."

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=233