Author Topic: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds  (Read 7764 times)

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2006, 09:40:13 AM »
For some reason it always comes back to the US government.  For people that are so into lying governments, do you honestly think stuff like this doesn't go on other places?  Canada made false accusations and he happened to be getting on an American plane during a time where those things aren't taken lightly.  It's not like Americans are the only ones who do this, though, I promised someone is getting tortured somewhere right now.  I'm not saying its right, but that's how things work sometimes.  Or we could "inject him with heroin", yeah good idea 240, that's pretty ethical as well.

Just because "I'm sure someone else is torturing someone right now too!" doesn't make it right.  I'm sure someone is having sex with a sheep right now.  Does that make you want to drive to the nearest petting zoo?

Come on, man.  Torture is wrong.  You could argue that when generals were captured in WWII and Vietnam, those men had FAR MORE useful info than terrorists do now.  Those men had knowledge of TONS of bombs being dropped upon targets.  With terrorists, it's one guy, maybe a small cell, and one attack.  Obviously it's serious, but can you tell me why we didn't torture a nazi general or a viet cong general, but some 18-year old with suicide bomb and a map needs beat for 5 years? 

Injecting someone with heroin is FAR MORE ethical than cutting small slits into their penis for 4 straight years, letting them heal, then doing it again. 

Canada was incorrect in their intelligence.  A legal interrogation, a polygraph and perhaps truth serum, would have proven that in about a week.  Why this guy spends a year getting beaten is just beyond me.

Tell me - you're cool that it happened to one guy.  if it happened to 10,000 people this month, would that bother you?  Or 100,000? 


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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2006, 10:05:38 AM »
Al-Gebra is a fucking hypocrite and piece of shit.

He's the type of homo that has one of those "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!" stickers on his car, yet he approves of torture of an innocent man.

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2006, 10:51:20 AM »
Beach Bum & Al Gebra, you may make light of this, ...but it holds grave ramifications for co-operation in the future. The Canadian government was wrong in their assumptions, ...however, it was NOT the Canadian government doing the torturing. If governments around the world suspect that this is how their citizens will be treated, how much co-operation & intel do you think they'll be willng to share in the future? How long do you think it will be before citizens of these countries demand their governments cut-off the information flow to the US, ...and where does that leave the American people if governments refuse to share intel with the US gov? It's certainly something to think about.

Who's making light of this?  I think what the Canadian government did is dispicable.  They should give this guy a seven-figure settlement.  Oh, and free health care for life. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2006, 10:52:10 AM »
They didn't say he was a terrorist, they falsely stated he was suspected of being a terrorist.

Now there's a distinction without a difference if I ever heard one.

Al-Gebra

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2006, 12:58:28 PM »
Al-Gebra is a fucking hypocrite and piece of shit.

He's the type of homo that has one of those "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!" stickers on his car, yet he approves of torture of an innocent man.


 ;D . . . looks like I got under someone's skin.

Don't worry, they're not going to take you in anytime soon . . . I think most people who have any clue about the great nation of Bangladesh know that Bengali Muslims are among the most inept people on earth . . . except when it comes to begging from the Indian govt.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2006, 02:15:07 PM »

 ;D . . . looks like I got under someone's skin.

Don't worry, they're not going to take you in anytime soon . . . I think most people who have any clue about the great nation of Bangladesh know that Bengali Muslims are among the most inept people on earth . . . except when it comes to begging from the Indian govt.

I had no idea that you would stoop so low, to the point where you attack my background when you clearly don't know anything about me.

I don't have any idea why you'd attack the people of Bangladesh, some of the poorest and most underpriviledged people in the world. But I guess I'm not that surprised, people like you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is of lesser intelligence and pretty much inferior.

Al-Gebra

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2006, 02:21:37 PM »
I had no idea that you would stoop so low, to the point where you attack my background when you clearly don't know anything about me.

I don't have any idea why you'd attack the people of Bangladesh, some of the poorest and most underpriviledged people in the world. But I guess I'm not that surprised, people like you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is of lesser intelligence and pretty much inferior.

didn't we meet when you saw the "these colors don't run" sticker on my car?

come on, two can play at that game.

I don't think Bangladeshis are inferior, or that they are naturally less intelligent . . . I merely think that the culture that you still owe allegiance to is pretty fucked up, that's all. it's fucked Bangladesh up, and it's fucked up a lot of other places in the world . . . but you're too blind to see it. people make a big song and dance about New Orleans, when the victims get relocated at govt. expense . . . they should go to Bangladesh in monsoon season and see what a real national tragedy looks like.

JediKnight

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2006, 03:45:14 PM »
your just sour because you didnt get a free vacation also.

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2006, 08:01:37 PM »
Now there's a distinction without a difference if I ever heard one.

There's a BIG difference and if you can't see it, ...you are in for a very RUDE awakening.
w

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2006, 08:07:02 PM »
I'm kinda annoyed tonight.

A reporter is on O Reilly.   He says he has inside info from CIA sources that 14 top Al Q guys gave up good intel.  He can't name sources.   He is telling us about which terrorists cried.  He is telling us that they promised to torture Khalid Sheik's children if he didn't "give it up". 

I wonder what the innocent Canadian went through.  I wonder if the intel he gave them - the color of his blood, piss, shit, and vomit, and tears - really helped stopped terrorist.

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2006, 08:15:20 PM »
There's a BIG difference and if you can't see it, ...you are in for a very RUDE awakening.

LOL.  Okay Jag.  Let the Canadian government issue a statement that you are an "accused" terrorist and see how that impacts your life.  Geeze Louise.   ::)  Of course the government can and should move quickly when another country tells them a resident is a "suspected" terrorist. 

240 is Back

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2006, 08:19:33 PM »
LMAO

Bill O Reilly - I love this guy's show... but tonight, he define waterboarding as:
"Putting a little water on their face"

Wiki:
The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique"[1], involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation. However, it is relatively difficult to aspirate a large amount of water since the lungs are higher than the mouth, and the victim is unlikely to actually die if this is done by skilled practitioners. Waterboarding may be used by captors who wish to impose anguish without leaving marks on their victims as evidence. [citation needed] Journalists Brian Ross and Richard Esposito described the CIA's waterboarding technique as follows:

The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.[2]


240 is Back

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2006, 08:20:30 PM »
Of course the government can and should move quickly when another country tells them a resident is a "suspected" terrorist. 

What if Canada sends us a list tomorrow of 75,000 people who are suspected terrorists?

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2006, 08:31:32 PM »
What if Canada sends us a list tomorrow of 75,000 people who are suspected terrorists?

What if you stopped posing incomprehensible, unrealistic hypotheticals?  You would cut your daily post count in half.  :)

Al-Gebra

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2006, 08:33:08 PM »
What if you stopped posing incomprehensible, unrealistic hypotheticals?  You would cut your daily post count in half.  :)

but then he might actually have time to do some real work.


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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2006, 08:38:07 PM »
What if you stopped posing incomprehensible, unrealistic hypotheticals?  You would cut your daily post count in half.  :)

You, without a doubt, support the transport of one man to Syria for a year of torture because Canada suspected him of being a terrorist.

Would you feel the same if it was 75,000 people?

Monster dodge, by the way.  You know where i"m going with this and you're scared to commit ;)

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2006, 08:57:54 PM »
You, without a doubt, support the transport of one man to Syria for a year of torture because Canada suspected him of being a terrorist.

Would you feel the same if it was 75,000 people?

Monster dodge, by the way.  You know where i"m going with this and you're scared to commit ;)

Why only 75,000?  Why not 750,000?   How about 7.5 million?  ::)

240 is Back

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2006, 09:02:32 PM »
Why only 75,000?  Why not 750,000?   How about 7.5 million?  ::)

You're dodging.

You support the torture of one man.  I am asking at what number you draw the line.

Once it becomes acceptable and legal in a country to torture one man, it becomes acceptable and legal to torture any number of men.

This is why short sighted people do not see the danger in this.

Dos Equis

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2006, 09:05:37 PM »
You're dodging.

You support the torture of one man.  I am asking at what number you draw the line.

Once it becomes acceptable and legal in a country to torture one man, it becomes acceptable and legal to torture any number of men.

This is why short sighted people do not see the danger in this.

Where I did I say I "support the torture of one man"?  Feel free to quote me.   

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2006, 09:52:40 PM »
Of course the government can and should move quickly when another country tells them a resident is a "suspected" terrorist. 

Where I did I say I "support the torture of one man"?  Feel free to quote me.   

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2006, 12:33:46 AM »
O'Reilly:

"Greta, coming up on the Factor, we have PROOF POSITIVE that torture does work."

Turns out, the proof was a reporter who said so.  He said his sources were CIA and he couldn't reveal them.  He was dropping all sorts of numbers and details.  Zero verification or proof.  Just "my sources tell me..."

I don't know if one guy's newspaper article can really be hailed as "PROOF POSITIVE"

Is this some new journalistic standard, that one guy's anonymous source is 'proof'?  Or was OReilly being irresponsible?  I watch his show every night... I know he commonly parrots the WH... but I must admit, hearing our proof positive is nothing but a reporter's word and a bunch of unverified CIA agents (who coincidentally make their living misleading people), feels a bit thin.  If a CIA agent told me something, I'd heed some serious warning that the info might have an agenda.

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2006, 12:50:07 AM »
Well when one of the these bastards makes one of our cities' glow..say Seattle, so the Canadians feel the pain as well, then i think we'll all get over the torture of some piece of shit rag terrorist. Yeah mistakes are made and yeah torture is not always necceasry but the Al Queda guy are pretty tough to crack and the info we get outa thm tends to be pretty good. Besides we don't act solely on interrogation information..we use it to paint a picture before we act...Sometimes the final piece of information or corroborative info comes from the interrogation. At this point the stakes are pretty high and we need to get past the politically correct stupidity and finish this thing.
L

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2006, 12:54:54 AM »
HH6, How can you even equate or compare the interrogation of a terrorist captured on the battlefield with the rendition & torture of an innocent civilian on his way home from vacation?  :-\
w

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2006, 01:36:36 AM »


Dude, I really try and take you seriously, but you make it very difficult. 

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Re: Innocent Man Sent to Syria and Tortured, Probe Finds
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2006, 01:48:21 AM »
BB, I don't get it.  I might be labelable as a skeptic, CT, etc, but I am very direct in my statements and beliefs.

You rant about how correct it is to torture one man, but you will not say that torturing 75,000 men under similar circumstances.  Either it is, or it isn't.  You condone one.  But you don't condone bigger numbers?

You're either scared to say you support large scale torture, or you just realized that you've painted yourself into an indefensible position.  I'll ask again:

Would you support the torture of 75,000 men?