Hitler

[24KT]

Bush and his neo-con buddies?

So it was just Bush and his Neo-Con buddies voting in Congress to authorize war powers?

Hmmmm, interesting, I didn't know our government worked that way.

I don't recall there having been a Declaration of War made by Congress.
If i recall accurately what went down, Congress instead voted to let the President decide whether to launch a war.
They shrank from their duty, and passed the buck to Bush, when it should have stayed with them.

If I'm incorrect, feel free to point it out, and I will humbly stand corrected.

[Irongrip400]

{blink}{blink}  You mean the way Bush and his neo-con buddies did in Iraq & Afghanistan? ...cheered on by the American people?

Is that what you mean by a 2 front war?

That's not even close to the same thing. Hitler invaded both sides of his country, to compare that to the US we would have to invade Canada and Mexico (which we would make short work of). Iraq and afganastan are two rathole countries that I could give a fuck less about. Let's stay on topic and keep your 21st century wars to yourself.

[OzmO]

That's not even close to the same thing. Hitler invaded both sides of his country, to compare that to the US we would have to invade Canada and Mexico (which we would make short work of). Iraq and afganastan are two rathole countries that I could give a fuck less about. Let's stay on topic and keep your 21st century wars to yourself.

America is Satan, Buy gas pills

[OzmO]

{blink}{blink}  You mean the way Bush and his neo-con buddies did in Iraq & Afghanistan? ...cheered on by the American people?

Is that what you mean by a 2 front war?

No, go study history.  Also I am still waiting for your expert argument about we are already in WW3.

By your logic, then during WW2 while we were island hoping, in Italy, in France, in the Phillipines etc you could say we were in a 5+ front war.  See how dumb the comparison is?

Meanwhile, you know my stance on Iraq as it was a useless waste of life, however, Afghanistan was appropriate.  Any chance we get to bomb, kill or desrtroy Taliban or AQ is a very good.

Satan Approves.  

I personally approve pissing on their dead bodies. 

[Shockwave]

No, go study history.  Also I am still waiting for your expert argument about we are already in WW3.

By your logic, then during WW2 while we were island hoping, in Italy, in France, in the Phillipines etc you could say we were in a 5+ front war.  See how dumb the comparison is?

Meanwhile, you know my stance on Iraq as it was a useless waste of life, however, Afghanistan was appropriate.  Any chance we get to bomb, kill or desrtroy Taliban or AQ is a very good.

Satan Approves.  

I personally approve pissing on their dead bodies.  

Lol.
The US rose hugely to the challenge in WWII and mobilized across half the world and fought through some of the most horrible jungle terrain in the world while simultaneously fighting across Europe.

Japan really screwed the pooch hitting Pearl Harbor IMHO.
Yamamoto knew what was up. Lol.

Good luck getting the entire US to truely believe in something like that again.

[GigantorX]

Lol.
The US rose hugely to the challenge in WWII and mobilized across half the world and fought through some of the most horrible jungle terrain in the world while simultaneously fighting across Europe.

Japan really screwed the pooch hitting Pearl Harbor IMHO.
Yamamoto knew what was up. Lol.

Good luck getting the entire US to truely believe in something like that again.

Well, if those 2 carriers were at Pearl Harbor during the attack we would be talking about a much different outcome. But I do agree, I don't think the Japanese thought the U.S. at the time could mobilize like it did.

They def. screwed up on that account, but with the scrap iron/fuel embargo we (U.S.) didn't give them much of a choice at the time.

[OzmO]

Well, if those 2 carriers were at Pearl Harbor during the attack we would be talking about a much different outcome. But I do agree, I don't think the Japanese thought the U.S. at the time could mobilize like it did.

They def. screwed up on that account, but with the scrap iron/fuel embargo we (U.S.) didn't give them much of a choice at the time.

Not to mention if the Japs had launched a third wave and hit the fuel storage tanks. 

[GigantorX]

Not to mention if the Japs had launched a third wave and hit the fuel storage tanks. 

Good point. Their war plan failed. If they were unable to score a true knockout blow then chances for victory diminished greatly.

[Shockwave]

Well, if those 2 carriers were at Pearl Harbor during the attack we would be talking about a much different outcome. But I do agree, I don't think the Japanese thought the U.S. at the time could mobilize like it did.

They def. screwed up on that account, but with the scrap iron/fuel embargo we (U.S.) didn't give them much of a choice at the time.

Agreed on that. Little bit overconfidence on their part.
Wasnt that whole plan something we basically gave them an idea for? I thought it was a possible outcome the US was worried about and we shared it with them for some godforsaken reason?

I cant remember exactly. Been a long time since I studied the subject.

[andreisdaman]

Well, if those 2 carriers were at Pearl Harbor during the attack we would be talking about a much different outcome. But I do agree, I don't think the Japanese thought the U.S. at the time could mobilize like it did.

They def. screwed up on that account, but with the scrap iron/fuel embargo we (U.S.) didn't give them much of a choice at the time.

Good point but it should never have gotten that far...the U.S. was crazy to think that being isolationist would have spared them from war..it just made it more inevitable...we should have come in earlier

[24KT]

That's not even close to the same thing. Hitler invaded both sides of his country, to compare that to the US we would have to invade Canada and Mexico (which we would make short work of).

Oh no you wouldn't. Between Moctezuma's revenge, and the Saskatchewan Army, your guys would scream like little girls and run away.

You seem to be forgetting what happened 200 yrs ago, the last time you tried to invade Canada.

Iraq and afganastan are two rathole countries that I could give a fuck less about.

OK, all kidding aside.

Do you not see the similarities? I realize it's not the same as the US invading Canada & Mexico because Iraq & Aghanistan are halfway around the world, however, these are two front wars on either side of Iran... a country they have for all intents & purposes been losing a war with since the days of Mossadegh. I think mossadegh was the last victory they had there, ...and they want "their country" back.

And now after needlessly sacrificing sooo many American lives, their further attempt to cripple not only it's biggest potential rivals India & China, but also Iran by sanctions, employing the Belgian based SWIFT as a weapon, has only backfired on them.

India is buying a million barrels a day using gold, and china is purchasing using Renminbi, accelerating the strengthening of both of these currencies. (yesterday's Au performance notwithstanding)

Let's stay on topic and keep your 21st century wars to yourself.

ok fine. no need to mention Congress' dereliction of duty, that launched a massive war that has lasted longer than WWII and could result in the destruction of America. {sigh}

[Irongrip400]

The US knew, or was at least warned about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor days prior. After that happened, my 17 year old grandfather enlisted in the navy and fought in the south pacific. Americans were fucking animals back then. And I mean that in a good way.

[24KT]

The US knew, or was at least warned about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor days prior. After that happened, my 17 year old grandfather enlisted in the navy and fought in the south pacific. Americans were fucking animals back then. And I mean that in a good way.

When I said on here 6 years ago that Roosevelt knew about the impending attack in advance, bmacsys had an absolute hissy fit. My how times have changed. 

[Shockwave]

The US knew, or was at least warned about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor days prior. After that happened, my 17 year old grandfather enlisted in the navy and fought in the south pacific. Americans were fucking animals back then. And I mean that in a good way.

I thought it was a possible contingency that we were worried about happening anyway? And for some reason in the 30's we let the japs know that?

[24KT]

I thought it was a possible contingency that we were worried about happening anyway? And for some reason in the 30's we let the japs know that?

A few years ago 240 shared an interesting perspective on this... y'all might want to drag him into this discussion.

[Irongrip400]

I just watched something on the military channel, and they said that there was a code word on the Japanese radio that was for N attack(can't remember what it was) and it was heard a few days prior. Also, the British spotted their fleet a few days earlier in in the pacific and warned. And, I believe in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, they reference it. I don't think it was a huge conspiracy, just something our people dusted off as a low level threat. With the embargo we put on them, I don't know how we thought that though.

[24KT]

I just watched something on the military channel, and they said that there was a code word on the Japanese radio that was for N attack(can't remember what it was) and it was heard a few days prior. Also, the British spotted their fleet a few days earlier in in the pacific and warned. And, I believe in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, they reference it. I don't think it was a huge conspiracy, just something our people dusted off as a low level threat. With the embargo we put on them, I don't know how we thought that though.

LOL, You didn't. The embargo you put on them was designed to bring about the very attack in the first place.
That was what Roosevelt wanted... something to enrage Americans and manipulate their support for war.

While everyone else was fighting, America was on the sidelines, and Prescott Bush was financing hitler every step of the way.   

[andreisdaman]

The US knew, or was at least warned about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor days prior. After that happened, my 17 year old grandfather enlisted in the navy and fought in the south pacific. Americans were fucking animals back then. And I mean that in a good way.

gotta disagree on this one...if ANY U.S. president knew of something like that and did nothing that would be high treason

[andreisdaman]

I just watched something on the military channel, and they said that there was a code word on the Japanese radio that was for N attack(can't remember what it was) and it was heard a few days prior. Also, the British spotted their fleet a few days earlier in in the pacific and warned. And, I believe in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, they reference it. I don't think it was a huge conspiracy, just something our people dusted off as a low level threat. With the embargo we put on them, I don't know how we thought that though.

I agree with you on this one...it was sort of a major fuck-up...just like 9/11...had a feeling about something going to happen but didn't put together all the clues in time

[Irongrip400]

I agree with you on this one...it was sort of a major fuck-up...just like 9/11...had a feeling about something going to happen but didn't put together all the clues in time

Oh, no doubt. I don't think the government knew, and hoped for it to happen so that they could enter the war. Hindsight is always 20/20, I'm sure there are threats that get the dust off on a daily basis. But I do think that some of these high officials believed it was coming in the few days before, but you can't convince everybody of your own beliefs. It's just a good thing that things shook out the way they did, and our fleet wasn't totally crippled, and we blasted those fools to the stone age, and gave em some democracy.

[GigantorX]

Oh, no doubt. I don't think the government knew, and hoped for it to happen so that they could enter the war. Hindsight is always 20/20, I'm sure there are threats that get the dust off on a daily basis. But I do think that some of these high officials believed it was coming in the few days before, but you can't convince everybody of your own beliefs. It's just a good thing that things shook out the way they did, and our fleet wasn't totally crippled, and we blasted those fools to the stone age, and gave em some democracy.

And let us remember that this was back in the 40's so take into account the communication/surveillance technology at the time.

From spotting a warship or 2, to possibly seeing a submarine, intermittent radio traffic... this was all handled by technology that is in the stone age compared to what we have now.

[240 is Back]

watching a show on hitler/himler on military channel...

fascinating... they were able to assassinate him in his vacation home with sniper/explosive rounds, but decided against it.

The Allies were scared Hitler would be replaced with a leader that was actually competent in the military sense.  He was doing a fine job losing the war on his own. 

[temple_of_dis]

Now that we are 70 or so years after his reign, and most who had to deal with him are dead, how will he be remembered?  What I wonder, is that will he eventually just be remembered as a conqueror, or will the atrocities he committed keep with his legacy?  Will he be remembered with the likes of Napoleon and Julius Caesar , or something all on his own?

USA woulda helped europe ahead 70 years, by siding the adolf.
Maybe rest of world too.

[24KT]

gotta disagree on this one...if ANY U.S. president knew of something like that and did nothing that would be high treason

HUH?! 

Uh... I hate to break it to you André, but high treason was committed, ...by a whole lotta people including the POTUS

[Mr.1derful]

LOL, You didn't. The embargo you put on them was designed to bring about the very attack in the first place.
That was what Roosevelt wanted... something to enrage Americans and manipulate their support for war.

While everyone else was fighting, America was on the sidelines, and Prescott Bush was financing hitler every step of the way.   

This.