Right wingers, please speak up!

[240 is Back]

Does anyone here believe Bush when he said today ""This country doesn't torture, we're not going to torture. We will interrogate people we pick up off the battlefield to determine whether or not they've got information that will be helpful to protect the country."


So we definitely don't torture.... 

  I'm guessing those Gitmo guys overheard, were lying?  Those CIA agents who tried to get insurance to CYA should they get caught - lying?  All the former detainees who detailed their being shipped to Syria for torture- lying?

I'm guessing we completely alienated the rest of the world, pissed on Geneva, and changed our constitution to legalize it... for no reason?



Anyone believe Bush on this?

[Puller]

I am very right sided and I do think Bush is doing a good job in office. However, I also believe we use the tactics needed to ensure safety for this country. I don't believe there is a dungeonand people are being rackedor having bambooshoots shoved in their nailbeds or water torture. Sensory deprivation, truth serum, and other methods I'm sure are used and very well should be. No terrorist or insurgent is going to say, "Well, I guess you got me. What do you want to know?" Things don't work that way. The country is a safer place and we have stopped many terrorist attacks both here and abroad because of the methods and tactics put in place by the Bush admiistration.

[Hugo Chavez]

Ah, FUCK NO.... It's another example of Bush making his own reality.  Only in Bush's world can you torture and not actually be torturing.  There are countless examples of Bush's Double, even Triplespeak... Reality is often exactly the opposite from what Bush says.

[Al-Gebra]

240, you've had another flare-up of dumbassitis.

[240 is Back]

I am very right sided and I do think Bush is doing a good job in office. However, I also believe we use the tactics needed to ensure safety for this country. I don't believe there is a dungeonand people are being rackedor having bambooshoots shoved in their nailbeds or water torture. Sensory deprivation, truth serum, and other methods I'm sure are used and very well should be. No terrorist or insurgent is going to say, "Well, I guess you got me. What do you want to know?" Things don't work that way. The country is a safer place and we have stopped many terrorist attacks both here and abroad because of the methods and tactics put in place by the Bush admiistration.

So did Bush lie today?  He said today that we don't use torture.

[240 is Back]

240, you've had another flare-up of dumbassitis.

LOL@ attacking the messenger and not the message.

You won't answer the Q, because you're either confused by the conflicting white house statements/actions, or you're pisspants scared to say anything you don't get from fox news.  Did he lie today?

[Puller]

So did Bush lie today?  He said today that we don't use torture.

Like I said, I do not believe that we are sawing off body parts or pulling people apart but I do believe we use other methods to get information. When he says the United States does nottorture this is what he is refering to. I'm sure people are not fed as well as they should be and that they are probaly kept awake for days in the dark. I do not know the verbatim defintion of torture so I can not say what is technically considered torture.

[Al-Gebra]

LOL@ attacking the messenger and not the message.

You won't answer the Q, because you're either confused by the conflicting white house statements/actions, or you're pisspants scared to say anything you don't get from fox news.  Did he lie today?

240, if I'm the scared one, how come I've never run to a mod to get a thread changed or pulled? 

you have no idea of how the constitution works, or what torture is legally, or who is doing it.  you can watch the news all day, but you'll never have decent sources b/c you've chosen to be a small-town boy . . . all you're getting is dim view.

Now I fully expect you to get all indignant and self-righteous . . . so go ahead and do it. 

[240 is Back]

ALG, you didn't answer

[Puller]

Torture = the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

I do not believe that the United States inflicts EXCRUCIATING pain for any reason. By this definition, no Bush did not lie today.

[240 is Back]

Waterboarding = excrutiating.

[Puller]

Waterboarding is not considered torture because there is not permenant physical damage or organ failure. It's mentally very intense but not physically damaging.

[Al-Gebra]

one more thing, 240 . . . i've never watche a whole hour of Fox News in my life.

[Hugo Chavez]

Waterboarding is not considered torture because there is not permenant physical damage or organ failure. It's mentally very intense but not physically damaging.

Yea ok there... Outside of the little bubble created by Bush's little midget Mexican tool, Alberto, the reality of it is: IT'S TORTURE... The guy who got his balls sliced and diced didn't have organ failure either... They just let him heal up again before cutting him open again... The guys who got slabs of flesh removed is probably ok after it healed...  The rest of his flesh didn't fail... COME ON PAL... THINK ABOUT IT FOR TWO SECONDS HERE... Imagine what can be done without causing permanent damage.  We called it torture when the Nazi's did it... but it's cool with you because Alberto crafted some clever bullshit... It's going to be considered torture by anyone with half a brain cell when the enemy gets one of our troops and starts slicing into his privates pal.  Now get real...

[240 is Back]

Waterboarding is not considered torture because there is not permenant physical damage or organ failure. It's mentally very intense but not physically damaging.

The Geneva convention considers waterboarding to be torture.  The US signed this agreement and agreed to abide by these worldwide rules.  Waterboarding is considered torture. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

On December 10, 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly. Article 5 states "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[240 is Back]

The UN is one thing.

But we have a getbig member who said:

Waterboarding is not considered torture because there is not permenant physical damage or organ failure. It's mentally very intense but not physically damaging.

I'm not sure who to believe here.

[Hugo Chavez]

The UN is one thing.

But we have a getbig member who said:

I'm not sure who to believe here.

In part it should be recognized that this getbig member is enabled by this mother fucker:

[Puller]

On December 10, 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly. Article 5 states "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

That was in 1948. Times were different. We were fighting different wars. According to the UN, waterboarding is torture, that is correct. However that was a law written by a man. Just like Alberto wrote that it is not. I livein this country and I support this country. If this means that we have to make a terrorist sh#t his pants by thinking he is drowning then so be it. I'm not saying it's the most humane thing to do, I'm saying I don't care. This idea of partsof the world hating the US isnt something that happend in the last 6-7 years, its been bubbling up for decades. An insurgent that has used children as bombs and may know when an attack on our troops is going to happen should not have the same rights as a law abiding citizen who accidentally litters.

[240 is Back]

That was in 1948. Times were different. We were fighting different wars. According to the UN, waterboarding is torture, that is correct. However that was a law written by a man. Just like Alberto wrote that it is not. I livein this country and I support this country. If this means that we have to make a terrorist sh#t his pants by thinking he is drowning then so be it. I'm not saying it's the most humane thing to do, I'm saying I don't care. This idea of partsof the world hating the US isnt something that happend in the last 6-7 years, its been bubbling up for decades. An insurgent that has used children as bombs and may know when an attack on our troops is going to happen should not have the same rights as a law abiding citizen who accidentally litters.

so are you changing your position that waterboarding is not torture?

[Puller]

No. As I said, torture, as it is stated by the United States of America, is excrutiating pain causing permanent physical damage and/or organ failure. Thisdid not happen. If you are going to reference a document that was written 60 years ago instead of one that was written 4 then that is by all means, that is your choice. Things change all the time as trime goes on we, as society get smarter and rethink "facts". Pluto was a planet, Indigo was in the rainbow spectrum, and waterboarding was torture.

[OzmO]

No. As I said, torture, as it is stated by the United States of America, is excrutiating pain causing permanent physical damage and/or organ failure. Thisdid not happen. If you are going to reference a document that was written 60 years ago instead of one that was written 4 then that is by all means, that is your choice. Things change all the time as trime goes on we, as society get smarter and rethink "facts". Pluto was a planet, Indigo was in the rainbow spectrum, and waterboarding was torture.

This is classic,  first we are debating whether or America tortures people now we are debating whether or not it is in fact torture.  Pathetic.

Waterboarding is torture...........  get over it. 

[Puller]

This is classic,  first we are debating whether or America tortures people now we are debating whether or not it is in fact torture.  Pathetic.

Waterboarding is torture...........  get over it. 

Good arguement, interesting points. What do you consider beheadings? Is a beheading an act of torture? No one complains that the terrorists and insurgents aren't obiding by the Geneva Convention. 

[240 is Back]

Puller, "no one complains"?   

Do you watch the news?  We're bombing the fuck outta them.  They're being condemned worldwide.  No one condones such atrocities, and they are summarily killed when captured.  Of course no one condones such terrible things.

But to say "they do it, why can't we" accomplishes their goals- drives the US back to a 3rd world torture mentality and endangers our troops.

[OzmO]

Good arguement, interesting points. What do you consider beheadings? Is a beheading an act of torture? No one complains that the terrorists and insurgents aren't obiding by the Geneva Convention. 

Beheadings are a criminal act, and if a "country" does it as a matter of practice it's barbaric.  But remember:  Beheading is a quick death.  Death by torture last much longer.   And everyone complains about these beheadings

Also:  these are insurgents and terrorist doing the beheading not a country like say for example:  Lebanon.

We are America:  Don't we have better ways of extracting information than to physically/mentally harm people?  (sorry, don;t know alot about these methods or if they even exsist)