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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: LurkerNoMore on January 24, 2023, 09:52:43 AM
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Guess he was smart enough to grab some classified docs for himself as well because he knew Trumpy's NTFs were not going to be worth anything.
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Guess he was smart enough to grab some classified docs for himself as well because he knew Trumpy's NTFs were not going to be worth anything.
It is beginning to appear that politicians mishandling classified government documents commonplace.
It looks like the best bet for anyone with classified government documents in their possession is to immediately contact the national archives or the FBI and turn them over. The only other option is to destroy them, which is undeniably a worse crime, making doing so risky business.
It will be interesting to see how this find unfolds. With each new discovery, the case against Trump case becomes more complicated. Will the FBI and the Justice Department have to back off their investigation or any possibility of nailing Trump? This seems like a real possibility. Time will tell.
This is not something I worry about since there are no classified government documents on my premises or in my possession.
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Impeach. Impeach Pence. Impeach Kamala. Impeach Biden. Impeach Biden's dog for biting Cornpop.
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We need Soulcrusher to come post some videos on here. That's all that is missing at this point.
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They'll have to check Obama's home too.
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They'll have to check Obama's home too.
Don’t you imagine that every living President, Vice President and politician, past and present who had or has access to them is scouring their homes in search of possible classified government documents? I know I would if I were them.
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Don’t you imagine that every living President, Vice President and politician, past and present who had or has access to them is scouring their homes in search of possible classified government documents? I know I would if I were them.
Just about every piece of paper handled nowadays is considered classified.
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Just about every piece of paper handled nowadays is considered classified.
Interesting. Not disagreeing with you, but how do you know this? Aren't there different levels of classification, such as highly classified and so on?
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Interesting. Not disagreeing with you, but how do you know this? Aren't there different levels of classification, such as highly classified and so on?
Yes, there are different levels.
It's on every TV show about spies.
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Yes, there are different levels.
It's on every TV show about spies.
:D
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Yes, there are different levels.
It's on every TV show about spies.
Are these shows factual documentaries or dramatized fictional interpretations of espionage and government?
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It is beginning to appear that politicians mishandling classified government documents commonplace.
It does.
Which makes the political grandstanding of the Trump raid even sillier.
And, since they went that route, any time something like this happens, it's going to be political theater.
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It does.
Which makes the political grandstanding of the Trump raid even sillier.
And, since they went that route, any time something like this happens, it's going to be political theater.
Yes, it is. And none of this would have happened had Trump simply complied with the original request from the National Archives to return all classified material. Better yet he should not have absconded with hundreds of classified documents in the first place. Now it is a huge mess that is difficult to sort out. It will be interesting to see how the Justice Department proceeds with the Trump investigation as well as these others showing up every day, considering all the complicating factors. Keep in mind these investigations and committees are done at taxpayers' expense. IMO, this is not an ideal use of taxpayer dollars.
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Is the U.S. government designating too many documents as 'classified'?
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/19/1149906531/classified-documents-biden-trump-matthew-connelly-declassification-engine
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Did they find them in his garage next to his truck buried under his kids crack clothes in a Salvation Army bag?
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Interesting. Not disagreeing with you, but how do you know this? Aren't there different levels of classification, such as highly classified and so on?
If something is classified, it is at one of three levels: Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret.
There might be uber-death-if-you-leak-it levels, but the three above are what typically apply.
I continually hear media folks conflate "classified" with "confidential," when the latter is subordinate to the former.
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We need Soulcrusher to come post some videos on here. That's all that is missing at this point.
Why not go missing yourself, cuntlette?
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If something is classified, it is at one of three levels: Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret.
There might be uber-death-if-you-leak-it levels, but the three above are what typically apply.
I continually hear media folks conflate "classified" with "confidential," when the latter is subordinate to the former.
You make an excellent point.
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It does.
Which makes the political grandstanding of the Trump raid even sillier.
And, since they went that route, any time something like this happens, it's going to be political theater.
Until there is evidence otherwise, the thinking among most Americans, is Trump and his lawyers didn't play ball when it was learned the was classified documents in his posession. That may be the difference between him, Pence, Biden and anyone else. I don't know the ins and outs of the handling of classified documents at the whitehouse. My experience was at a base level. But it appears that they were more lax than where I worked. But the difference I am seeing and someone correct me if I am wrong, is the response from the various people. It appears, Bidens team has initiated the contact and cooperating. Not sure about Pence's team but I would guess the same. In Trumps case.... well , you already know his team fought every step of the way.. now most americans see the difference but there is that 30% of Trumps base that will defend him no matter what and there is no point arguing with them about it.
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Why not go missing yourself, cuntlette?
Unlike you, my family would actually miss me. I'm not a drain and burden on them like your crippled ass is to everyone around you.
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Until there is evidence otherwise, the thinking among most Americans, is Trump and his lawyers didn't play ball when it was learned the was classified documents in his posession. That may be the difference between him, Pence, Biden and anyone else. I don't know the ins and outs of the handling of classified documents at the whitehouse. My experience was at a base level. But it appears that they were more lax than where I worked. But the difference I am seeing and someone correct me if I am wrong, is the response from the various people. It appears, Bidens team has initiated the contact and cooperating. Not sure about Pence's team but I would guess the same. In Trumps case.... well , you already know his team fought every step of the way.. now most americans see the difference but there is that 30% of Trumps base that will defend him no matter what and there is no point arguing with them about it.
I'm not in trumps base to be clear.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, but the raid was unnecessary. And the coverage as well - has he been charged with potentially exposing the nuke codes yet? It would have eventually resolved itself. If the DOJ really thought national security was at stake, the raid should have happened much earlier.
And, regardless of whether Biden's team is cooperating, he still did it.
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Unlike you, my family would actually miss me. I'm not a drain and burden on them like your crippled ass is to everyone around you.
So you got a litter of twatlings, eh?
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it's almost like only idiots work for the government
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So you got a litter of twatlings, eh?
I have family. Not care giving aides I am related to. Handicap people are such a burden for the rest of the family. No wonder they park you on the internet and let it babysit you.
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Pence just made Merrick Garlands life a whole lot easier
Now he has two examples of former VP's having a small amount of classified docs. In both cases the National Archives wasn't aware the docs were missing and in both cases Biden and Pence's team discovered the docs and notified National Archives or Justice immediately and full cooperated
Now, compare that to Trump who took so many documents that the National Archives was immediately aware they were missing
Trump left office in January of 2021 and by May of 2021 the National Archives notified Trump that they were missing a large number of documents
It took until DECEMBER of 2021 for Trumps team to respond back saying they had found some documents and the National Archives retrieved 15 BOXES of documents in January of 2022
So you know, LIGHTENING SPEED
And of course that's just the beginning of the saga/scandal of the Trump docs
The full timeline is here: https://www.voanews.com/a/timeline-of-the-trump-documents-inquiry-/6734453.html
Anyone who looks at this honesty and objectively can see the vast difference between Biden/Pence and Trump
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Until there is evidence otherwise, the thinking among most Americans, is Trump and his lawyers didn't play ball when it was learned the was classified documents in his posession. That may be the difference between him, Pence, Biden and anyone else. I don't know the ins and outs of the handling of classified documents at the whitehouse. My experience was at a base level. But it appears that they were more lax than where I worked. But the difference I am seeing and someone correct me if I am wrong, is the response from the various people. It appears, Bidens team has initiated the contact and cooperating. Not sure about Pence's team but I would guess the same. In Trumps case.... well , you already know his team fought every step of the way.. now most americans see the difference but there is that 30% of Trumps base that will defend him no matter what and there is no point arguing with them about it.
I read that only the President, Vice President while in office and maybe a few other folks with top level security clearances are allowed to temporarily borrow classified documents from their secured locations. Anyone else with enough security clearance to view classified documents must do so at the CIA, the Pentagon and the State Department offices where classified records are kept for continued access as needed. The national archives maintain storage of classified documents.
When the President and Vice President leave office they are required to turn over all classified documents to the National Archives. They are not permitted to take them home as keepsakes of their former time in office.
The current practice in the handling of classified documents is at odds with what is prescribe by law. Neither, Trump, President Biden (in the time between being Vice President and President) and former Vice President Pence should have possession of any classified government documents.
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it's almost like only idiots work for the government
It has recently become very clear that anyone can get elected to public office given enough financial backing, even liars and idiots. Not only that, getting rid of someone who lied their way in or fails to do the job they were elected to do, cannot easily be terminated. This is quite the opposite of what happens with both private and public sector employees, who can be immediately fired for a variety of offences such as lying on their resume.
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(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IM3LNeRnTGXbMpdQLQWwGA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcxODtjZj13ZWJw/https://media.zenfs.com/en/business_insider_articles_888/d657f7aabd07afc5dac5fda9ac29fb40)
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“Let me be clear: Those classified documents should not have been in my personal residence,” Pence said at Florida International University, where he was talking about the economy and promoting his new book, “So Help Me God." “Mistakes were made, and I take full responsibility."
Pence's public acceptance of responsibility over his handling of the documents marks a departure from the reactions of both Trump, his former boss, and Biden in their own cases.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pence-takes-full-responsibility-classified-202906683.html
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Search Lincoln's garage.
(https://windupwire.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/lincoln_rev.jpg?w=830)
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They'll have to check Obama's home too.
You would think that would make sense, his VP has classified and top secret documents, Trump had some (claimed they were declassified), Pence has some, the odds that Obama has some are pretty high (wonder if he'll claim his are declassified)
Still interesting to see liberals suddenly backing off Trumps head over this instead of jumping on Bitems neck for it. Talk about hypocrisy.
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You would think that would make sense, his VP has classified and top secret documents, Trump had some (claimed they were declassified), Pence has some, the odds that Obama has some are pretty high (wonder if he'll claim his are declassified)
Still interesting to see liberals suddenly backing off Trumps head over this instead of jumping on Bitems neck for it. Talk about hypocrisy.
All things are not equal. Trump had hundreds. The word 'some' implies he only had a few like Biden and Pence. Trump avoided and refused to turn them over to the proper authorities claiming they were his. Biden and Pence's lawyers immediately contacted the authorities to collect them. The only similarity is that none of these folks should have had classified documents in their possession.
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Senators vowed to push back against the Biden administration for refusing to provide access to classified documents found at the residences of two presidents.
Democratic and Republican members of the Senate Intelligence Committee left a classified briefing Wednesday with Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines in an uproar, arguing they are being prevented from performing their congressional oversight duties for the sake of national security.
(http://As reported by CNN, Chairman Mark Warner (D-VA) warned “all things will be on the table” to gain access to the documents as the committee was united in wanting to know “if there’s been any intelligence compromised.”
Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed special counsels to investigate former President Donald Trump’s and President Joe Biden’s handling of documents, which senators said was the justification the intelligence community gave to withhold information from Congress.
“The bottom line is this: They won’t tell us what they have until the special counsel allows them to tell us. That’s an unacceptable position,” said Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, according to NBC News.)
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All things are not equal. Trump had hundreds. The word 'some' implies he only had a few like Biden and Pence. Trump avoided and refused to turn them over to the proper authorities claiming they were his. Biden and Pence's lawyers immediately contacted the authorities to collect them. The only similarity is that none of these folks should have had classified documents in their possession.
One document or 500, should invoke the same response. Out of Trump, Pence and Biden, only one had the authority to declassify the documents he was in possession of. Care to guess who that was?
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One document or 500, should invoke the same response. Out of Trump, Pence and Biden, only one had the authority to declassify the documents he was in possession of. Care to guess who that was?
Depends on whether they still held office when they declassified them. If they were, then all three were authorized to declassify government documents. If they were longer in office then none of them did. When the documents were discovered only one of them had the ability to declassify them; care to guess who that was? Incidentally, it is not necessary to have possession of classified documents for the President, Vice-President or other authorized persons to de-classify them.
"How does declassification work?
Information is usually declassified through a process known as “automatic declassification” (which is, in practice, anything but automatic) that takes place after information has been classified for 25 years. However, information may be declassified sooner if it is marked with an earlier declassification date; if the original classification authority who classified the information, their successor or supervisor, or another designated official determines that it no longer meets the standards for classification; or if the agency head or a designated senior agency official determines that the public interest in disclosure outweighs the need for protection. The decision to declassify is made in consultation with all agencies that have an interest in the information.
As with classification, declassification is a two-step process. First, an authorized official must determine that the information no longer requires protection. Second, that determination must be communicated so that the protections are removed. Accordingly, when a decision has been made to declassify information, it must be marked as declassified."
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/government-classification-and-mar-lago-documents
I previously posted the official guidelines as last updated by President Obama, for classifying and declassifying documents which are on a government website.
Here are a couple of links you might read for a better understanding of how the government’s classification system works.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2023/01/23/how-does-the-governments-classification-system-work/
Note: the information below is not someone's opinion about who and what can be classified and declassified. This is the actual Federal regulation.
Code of Federal Regulations
Title 3 - The President
Volume: 1
Date: 2010-01-01
Original Date: 2010-01-01
Title: Order 13526 - Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009. Classified National Security Information
Context: 2009 Compilation - Presidential Documents. - Executive Orders.
Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009 EO 13526
PART 1—ORIGINAL CLASSIFICATION
Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
(1) the President and the Vice President;
(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President; and
(3) United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.
PART 3—DECLASSIFICATION AND DOWNGRADING
Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.
(b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by:
(1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority;
(2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority;
(3) a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority; or (4) officials delegated declassification authority in writing by the agency head or the senior agency official of the originating agency.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title3-vol1/xml/CFR-2010-title3-vol1-eo13526.xml
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Depends on whether they still held office when they declassified them. If they were, then all three were authorized to declassify government documents. Blah blah blah
From what I read, the second worst President Obama gave the vp the ability to declassify documents that he had classified, so unless Pence or Bitem classified all those documents, they should be up shit creek. You posting the classification process as some sort of defense of Bitem continues to show your bias.
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From what I read, the second worst President Obama gave the vp the ability to declassify documents that he had classified, so unless Pence or Bitem classified all those documents, they should be up shit creek. You posting the classification process as some sort of defense of Bitem continues to show your bias.
Take what I posted as being defensive of or bias in favor of Biden and Pence if you like. Would you say you are defensive of Trump? Do you have a bias?
Apparently, you read at least some of what I posted and hopefully the links as well. It seems you are who is making an issue of which documents were classified or declassified, when they were classified or declassified, and who did what to them.
Do you know whether Trump still claims he declassified the multitude of documents found at Mar-a-Lago? Are his attorneys still arguing this with courts and the Feds? Are Biden and Pence claiming to have either classified or declassified the few documents they had in their possession in their homes and office? Does anyone outside of the people directly involved, such as the Department of Justice, Trump, Biden, and Pence know which ones are classified as top secret, secret, or confidential? Do you think it possible neither Trump, Biden nor Pence know how these documents were classified? Were they 'original classification' or 'derivative classification'? Is it possible that some of the documents are more than 25 years old and therefore classified when Clinton was President? If so, the classification doesn't matter as much.
"...25-year-old or older records that have been determined to have permanent historical value in accordance with title 44, U.S.C. are subject to automatic declassification. Non-record, temporary, and marked “Unclassified” records are not subject to the automatic declassification requirement of the Order."
Do you agree that it is likely some of classified documents did not need to be classified to begin with and that the government tends to err on the side of classifying documents rather than not?
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Take what I posted as being defensive of or bias in favor of Biden and Pence if you like. Would you say you are defensive of Trump? Do you have a bias?
Like I've told others, making fun of your liberal hypocrisy is not the same as defending Trump, I know that's hard for your type to understand, I could write it in crayon for you, but you probably wouldn't get it.
As far as my bias, I was much closer to the center of the road until I watched demoncrats and their media crucify the President non-stop 24/7 while promoting perversions and mental illness as normality. Now I'm definitely on the Right side farther away from the center because of people like you and your ultra-bias media.
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Pence is retarded... As is KamelToe, Pant-Shitter, Cheney, Bubba, Ghey Barry, etc...
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Like I've told others, making fun of your liberal hypocrisy is not the same as defending Trump, I know that's hard for your type to understand, I could write it in crayon for you, but you probably wouldn't get it.
As far as my bias, I was much closer to the center of the road until I watched demoncrats and their media crucify the President non-stop 24/7 while promoting perversions and mental illness as normality. Now I'm definitely on the Right side farther away from the center because of people like you and your ultra-bias media.
You are more bias than you know. You and I have never met. You don't know what my "type" is, whether 'my' media is ultra-bias, or what people I am like. In fairness, I don't know these things about you either. What I know about you is based on what you post on Getbig. What you think you know about me is based on what I post on Getbig.
Question, do you think most folks posting on Getbig have the same personality traits in their offline life as they do on Getbig?
I just did a little lookback which I found interesting. You've been on Getbig since 2006. Initially you didn't show much interest in politics. A few of your early posts demonstrate your strong dislike of particular ethnicities, namely Mexicans and blacks. You didn't start posting actively in the political threads until around the time Obama was elected. It safe to say you didn't vote for him. Your bias/prejudice was just beginning to rear its ugly head.
If I continue looking through you past posts what do you think I will find out about you? Will it provide an accurate insight to your true self? At the end of the day, would you like to be judged based on your Getbig personna and contributions?
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Depends on whether they still held office when they declassified them. If they were, then all three were authorized to declassify government documents. If they were longer in office then none of them did. When the documents were discovered only one of them had the ability to declassify them; care to guess who that was? Incidentally, it is not necessary to have possession of classified documents for the President, Vice-President or other authorized persons to de-classify them.
"How does declassification work?
Information is usually declassified through a process known as “automatic declassification” (which is, in practice, anything but automatic) that takes place after information has been classified for 25 years. However, information may be declassified sooner if it is marked with an earlier declassification date; if the original classification authority who classified the information, their successor or supervisor, or another designated official determines that it no longer meets the standards for classification; or if the agency head or a designated senior agency official determines that the public interest in disclosure outweighs the need for protection. The decision to declassify is made in consultation with all agencies that have an interest in the information.
As with classification, declassification is a two-step process. First, an authorized official must determine that the information no longer requires protection. Second, that determination must be communicated so that the protections are removed. Accordingly, when a decision has been made to declassify information, it must be marked as declassified."
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/government-classification-and-mar-lago-documents
I previously posted the official guidelines as last updated by President Obama, for classifying and declassifying documents which are on a government website.
Here are a couple of links you might read for a better understanding of how the government’s classification system works.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2023/01/23/how-does-the-governments-classification-system-work/
Note: the information below is not someone's opinion about who and what can be classified and declassified. This is the actual Federal regulation.
Code of Federal Regulations
Title 3 - The President
Volume: 1
Date: 2010-01-01
Original Date: 2010-01-01
Title: Order 13526 - Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009. Classified National Security Information
Context: 2009 Compilation - Presidential Documents. - Executive Orders.
Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009 EO 13526
PART 1—ORIGINAL CLASSIFICATION
Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
(1) the President and the Vice President;
(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President; and
(3) United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.
PART 3—DECLASSIFICATION AND DOWNGRADING
Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.
(b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by:
(1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority;
(2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority;
(3) a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority; or (4) officials delegated declassification authority in writing by the agency head or the senior agency official of the originating agency.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title3-vol1/xml/CFR-2010-title3-vol1-eo13526.xml
Wrong. In terms of unlimited unilateral authority to classify and declassify documents, that authority solely belongs to the POTUS.
Regarding the VP, he/she does not have the same authority. The only thing a VP can declassify is something he or she designated as classified in the first place.
Biden didn't classify anything as a Senator or VP, so he has no argument that he was in lawful possession of classified documents. And he did not cooperate. Someone likely dropped a dime on him and that is the only reason he suddenly "volunteered" these documents, six to sixteen years later.
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Wrong. In terms of unlimited unilateral authority to classify and declassify documents, that authority solely belongs to the POTUS.
Regarding the VP, he/she does not have the same authority. The only thing a VP can declassify is something he or she designated as classified in the first place.
Biden didn't classify anything as a Senator or VP, so he has no argument that he was in lawful possession of classified documents. And he did not cooperate. Someone likely dropped a dime on him and that is the only reason he suddenly "volunteered" these documents, six to sixteen years later.
Are you saying the Code of Federal Regulations is wrong?
Under an Obama-era executive order that retained a Bush-era order, vice presidents have the authority to classify and declassify documents — just like presidents.
How would you know that Biden did not classify anything when he was Vice President or a Senator. Based on these rules, why can't Senators be designated to classify and therefore declassify government documents? What does this mean? 'United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section. (c) Delegation of original classification authority'.
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You are more bias than you know. You and I have never met. You don't know what my "type" is, whether 'my' media is ultra-bias, or what people I am like. In fairness, I don't know these things about you either. What I know about you is based on what you post on Getbig. What you think you know about me is based on what I post on Getbig.
Question, do you think most folks posting on Getbig have the same personality traits in their offline life as they do on Getbig?
I just did a little lookback which I found interesting. You've been on Getbig since 2006. Initially you didn't show much interest in politics. A few of your early posts demonstrate your strong dislike of particular ethnicities, namely Mexicans and blacks. You didn't start posting actively in the political threads until around the time Obama was elected. It safe to say you didn't vote for him. Your bias/prejudice was just beginning to rear its ugly head.
If I continue looking through you past posts what do you think I will find out about you? Will it provide an accurate insight to your true self? At the end of the day, would you like to be judged based on your Getbig personna and contributions?
Not sure what your point is here stalker. I would say my post history reflects a 17 year growth pattern and change of opinions/views, probably farther to the right thanks to people like you.
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Are you saying the Code of Federal Regulations is wrong?
Under an Obama-era executive order that retained a Bush-era order, vice presidents have the authority to classify and declassify documents — just like presidents.
How would you know that Biden did not classify anything when he was Vice President or a Senator. Based on these rules, why can't Senators be designated to classify and therefore declassify government documents? What does this mean? 'United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section. (c) Delegation of original classification authority'.
Like I said, the only thing a VP can declassify is something he designated as classified himself. What you and the media water carriers are trying to say is that the VP has the same declassification authority as the POTUS. That is flat out wrong.
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Like I said, the only thing a VP can declassify is something he designated as classified himself. What you and the media water carriers are trying to say is that the VP has the same declassification authority as the POTUS. That is flat out wrong.
That seems to fly in the face of the 2009 executive order. I'm not 100% sure but I'm betting the VP does have broader authority than what you are indicating. I've no doubt you posted a legitimate code, but I think when the dust clears the executive order will supersede the older code. I could be wrong.
But lets say for the sake of argument the VP can declassify documents under that E.O. That doesn't let him off the hook any more than it lets Trump off the hook. As has been said here by many, there are protocols to declassifying documents which seem to have been ignored. They had no reason to have possession. So I'm still interested in seeing this through
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That seems to fly in the face of the 2009 executive order. I'm not 100% sure but I'm betting the VP does have broader authority than what you are indicating. I've no doubt you posted a legitimate code, but I think when the dust clears the executive order will supersede the older code. I could be wrong.
But lets say for the sake of argument the VP can declassify documents under that E.O. That doesn't let him off the hook any more than it lets Trump off the hook. As has been said here by many, there are protocols to declassifying documents which seem to have been ignored. They had no reason to have possession. So I'm still interested in seeing this through
You do realize an EO is not a law and cannot contradict either a law or the Constitution? And yes the limitation on the VP's authority is exactly what I said.
Biden's situation is nothing like Trump's situation. The three most glaring differences are Trump had declassification authority before leaving office, while Biden did not. Trump took documents with him and the FBI knew, while Biden had documents for six to sixteen years and nobody knew. Trump had documents in a room protected by secret service, with a lock requested by the FBI, while Biden had documents in multiple locations, including a garage frequented by his crackhead son. No comparison.
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You do realize an EO is not a law and cannot contradict either a law or the Constitution? And yes the limitation on the VP's authority is exactly what I said.
Biden's situation is nothing like Trump's situation. The three most glaring differences are Trump had declassification authority before leaving office, while Biden did not. Trump took documents with him and the FBI knew, while Biden had documents for six to sixteen years and nobody knew. Trump had documents in a room protected by secret service, with a lock requested by the FBI, while Biden had documents in multiple locations, including a garage frequented by his crackhead son. No comparison.
I guess since I think you are wrong, We can agree to disagree. The glaring differences are not what you reported
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One document or 500, should invoke the same response. Out of Trump, Pence and Biden, only one had the authority to declassify the documents he was in possession of. Care to guess who that was?
As far as I'm concerned having classified documents whether it be 1 or 500 does elicit the same response in that it's wrong, careless, sloppy, should not happen ever no matter the party. How the person/team handles these documents in terms of returning them, refusing to return them, etc. is an entirely separate response.
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I have family. Not care giving aides I am related to. Handicap people are such a burden for the rest of the family. No wonder they park you on the internet and let it babysit you.
Dude...
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I'm not in trumps base to be clear.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, but the raid was unnecessary. And the coverage as well - has he been charged with potentially exposing the nuke codes yet? It would have eventually resolved itself. If the DOJ really thought national security was at stake, the raid should have happened much earlier.
And, regardless of whether Biden's team is cooperating, he still did it.
I don't know that the raid was unnecessary as it seems the information as it was reported was all other means were exhausted. I do agree with you on the "Biden still did it"
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I don't know that the raid was unnecessary as it seems the information as it was reported was all other means were exhausted. I do agree with you on the "Biden still did it"
Correctomundo
Trump was given an extraordinary amount of time to produce the missing government property and it was only after he continued to obstruct that the FBI was able to obtain a search warrant for his property
While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.
The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.
The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/does-it-matter-what-if-anything-trump-declassified
It's almost completely irrelevant whether the documents were classified or not. They are all government property and when the governments tells you that you have their property and you need to return it and you don't comply and in fact obstruct then you've got a problem
Also, it's almost a certainty that none of the docs we "declassified". There is a process for declassification of docs and it takes time and involves multiple agencies within the government. The POTUS can't declassify something by thinking about it. What an absolutely moronic claim. If Biden had said this the right wing media would have lost their fucking minds.
Also, no one in the Trump administration can confirm Trumps claims (quite the contrary actually) and no one in his administration can confirm that he somehow changed the de-classification process.
Bottom line is that the docs were almost certainly NOT declassified AND it doesn't really matter that much if they were or not.
Declassified or not, they still don't belong to Trump
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Correctomundo
Trump was given an extraordinary amount of time to produce the missing government property and it was only after he continued to obstruct that the FBI was able to obtain a search warrant for his property
https://www.lawfareblog.com/does-it-matter-what-if-anything-trump-declassified
It's almost completely irrelevant whether the documents were classified or not. They are all government property and when the governments tells you that you have their property and you need to return it and you don't comply and in fact obstruct then you've got a problem
Also, it's almost a certainty that none of the docs we "declassified". There is a process for declassification of docs and it takes time and involves multiple agencies within the government. The POTUS can't declassify something by thinking about it. What an absolutely moronic claim. If Biden had said this the right wing media would have lost their fucking minds.
Also, no one in the Trump administration can confirm Trumps claims (quite the contrary actually) and no one in his administration can confirm that he somehow changed the de-classification process.
Bottom line is that the docs were almost certainly NOT declassified AND it doesn't really matter that much if they were or not.
Declassified or not, they still don't belong to Trump
Hi Straw!
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Not sure what your point is here stalker. I would say my post history reflects a 17 year growth pattern and change of opinions/views, probably farther to the right thanks to people like you.
Stalking - Driven to the right - My pleasure. ;D
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You do realize an EO is not a law and cannot contradict either a law or the Constitution? And yes the limitation on the VP's authority is exactly what I said.
Biden's situation is nothing like Trump's situation. The three most glaring differences are Trump had declassification authority before leaving office, while Biden did not. Trump took documents with him and the FBI knew, while Biden had documents for six to sixteen years and nobody knew. Trump had documents in a room protected by secret service, with a lock requested by the FBI, while Biden had documents in multiple locations, including a garage frequented by his crackhead son. No comparison.
Does Obama's executive order contradict the law or the Constitution? If so, can you provide a link to the law it contradicts?
Executive Orders are issued by the White House and are used to direct the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government. Executive Orders state mandatory requirements for the Executive Branch, and have the effect of law. They are issued in relation to a law passed by Congress or based on powers granted to the President in the Constitution and must be consistent with those authorities. Executive Orders are given numbers and abbreviated as “EO XXXXX”. Executive Orders are numbered in ascending order, so a higher number means the order was given more recently. Executive Orders may amend earlier orders.
https://www.phe.gov/s3/law/Pages/ExecOrders.aspx#:~:text=Executive%20Orders%20state%20mandatory%20requirements,be%20consistent%20with%20those%20authorities.
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Does Obama's executive order contradict the law or the Constitution? If so, can you provide a link to the law it contradicts?
Executive Orders are issued by the White House and are used to direct the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government. Executive Orders state mandatory requirements for the Executive Branch, and have the effect of law. They are issued in relation to a law passed by Congress or based on powers granted to the President in the Constitution and must be consistent with those authorities. Executive Orders are given numbers and abbreviated as “EO XXXXX”. Executive Orders are numbered in ascending order, so a higher number means the order was given more recently. Executive Orders may amend earlier orders.
https://www.phe.gov/s3/law/Pages/ExecOrders.aspx#:~:text=Executive%20Orders%20state%20mandatory%20requirements,be%20consistent%20with%20those%20authorities.
If you are telling me executive orders trump the law and the Constitution then I'm not wasting my time this. This is high school civics stuff.
And everything I said about classification and declassification authority is accurate.