Author Topic: "Insurrection"  (Read 25856 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22688
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2021, 11:09:58 AM »
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2021, 11:12:10 AM »
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.

While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.
Y

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2021, 11:25:43 AM »
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

Can you remind us of the BLM riot last summer where 140 cops were injured and 5 people died and they also planted pipe bombs and the next day two of the cops involved committed suicide

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2021, 11:30:20 AM »
Can you remind us of the BLM riot last summer where 140 cops were injured and 5 people died and they also planted pipe bombs and the next day two of the cops involved committed suicide

Is that the minimum requirement for a riot?
Y

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22688
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2021, 11:34:56 AM »
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

Media aside, (which is difficult), Was there people in that mob with the intention of setting a new government?  YES!  Did they break in?  YES! Can what they did be constituted as insurrection?  That's for a court of law to decide.  But at the very least some should be charged as so. 

Media aside, (which is difficult), In my mind, these BLM riots are a different animal.  Those people should be charged if they damaged property or broke any laws.

What the media has to say about both incidents is moot.  If they are guilty of anything, sort it out in a court of law.


Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2021, 11:35:43 AM »
Is that the minimum requirement for a riot?

nope
you just said that there were "much more violent BLM incidents over the summer" so obviously you were the one attempting to make the comparison to the events on January 6th

so which BLM was it that was "much more violent" ?

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2021, 11:40:12 AM »
nope
you just said that there were "much more violent BLM incidents over the summer" so obviously you were the one attempting to make the comparison to the events on January 6th

so which BLM was it that was "much more violent" ?

Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.
Y

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22688
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2021, 11:47:31 AM »
Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.

I have friends in Portland, OR where they had opened a new retail store in the area in April 2020.  In May, during those first riots, people broke in and stole product and destroyed some displays.  It cost them about $5000 in damages and inventory replacement.  I saw the whole incident on video from the security cameras.  These are independent business owners trying to make a living.  It's crap like this that hurt the core BLM cause opening up to demonization. 

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2021, 11:49:23 AM »
Media aside, (which is difficult), Was there people in that mob with the intention of setting a new government?  YES!  Did they break in?  YES! Can what they did be constituted as insurrection?  That's for a court of law to decide.  But at the very least some should be charged as so. 

Media aside, (which is difficult), In my mind, these BLM riots are a different animal.  Those people should be charged if they damaged property or broke any laws.

What the media has to say about both incidents is moot.  If they are guilty of anything, sort it out in a court of law.

IMO, what the media says about both incidents is not moot, as I believe a dishonest media is more damaging to us overall than the Jan 6th, or the BLM stuff combined.
Y

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2021, 11:50:47 AM »
Pick any where shops were fires were started and windows were smashed, businesses looted, or security officers shot.

it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)


Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 59466
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2021, 11:59:18 AM »
it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)

Oh wait..you didn’t know about this? Your MSM saviors keeping things from you?




Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 59466
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2021, 12:01:48 PM »
Do statues that BLM/Antifa tore down count?

Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 59466
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2021, 12:04:41 PM »

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2021, 12:05:21 PM »
It was about as much of an insurrection as fans charging a football field after a game is a violent overthrow of the University. No one was setting up foxholes and digging in with machine guns to hold the capital.

Right?  Someone had teargas and a bat.  Yeah they were really going to takeover the United States government.  lol 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2021, 12:07:09 PM »
Oh wait..you didn’t know about this? Your MSM saviors keeping things from you?





you forgot to mention a few things

how many cops were injured
how many people died
how much in property damage (the estimate for the damages to the Capitol are over 30 million and there is no insurance coverage)


Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2021, 12:10:52 PM »
This is silly.

Comparing this to an armed takeover with machine guns, sandbags, etc. in an attempt to minimize or dismiss what it was is pure spin.

They are caught on tape breaking windows to get in.
They are caught on tape saying they are there to install a new government.
People died as a result.
They broke laws.
They tried to disrupt our democratic process.

Never mind that it was highly unlikely that it was going to be successful as a reason to dismiss what it actually was.

You people need to own it. 

And those involved need to be prosecuted to the degree of their involvement.

The only thing that's silly is calling this an insurrection:  "an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence."  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insurrection

Nobody was taking over the United States government.  This is as crazy as the Russian Manchurian Candidate crap.
This was a handful of idiots who broke the law, and some of whom were (according to the story at the start of this thread) let in by the police.   

Anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted.  But it's lunacy to claim someone with pepper spray was going to defeat the United States government, which includes the military, and take over running of the federal government in DC.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2021, 12:11:22 PM »
While the media has no issue labeling this a riot, they continually resisted doing that for much more violent BLM incidents over the summer.

"Mostly peaceful" protests. 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2021, 12:12:41 PM »
I have friends in Portland, OR where they had opened a new retail store in the area in April 2020.  In May, during those first riots, people broke in and stole product and destroyed some displays.  It cost them about $5000 in damages and inventory replacement.  I saw the whole incident on video from the security cameras.  These are independent business owners trying to make a living.  It's crap like this that hurt the core BLM cause opening up to demonization.

Portland, Oregon, where they have been engaging in riots for almost an entire year, with a plethora of violent attacks on a federal courthouse and law enforcement.  Not even a blip on the radar. 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2021, 12:12:45 PM »
Right?  Someone had teargas and a bat.  Yeah they were really going to takeover the United States government.  lol

and pipe bombs and bear spray and many other forms of weapons

and AGAIN you have no clue how many firearms were there because almost no one was searched or arrested that day but we do know that the people in that crowd love their guns

and yet AGAIN stupidity and ineptitude is not an excuse

you of all people should know that by now







Why did this guy place pipe bombs on the evening in January 5th

It's almost like he knew there was going to be an attack the next day


Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2021, 12:31:14 PM »
it's your premise so you pick one

make sure it had "much more violence" than the events of January 6th

just pick the one where more than 140 cops were injured, and more than 5 people died and where more than 521 people have been charged (so far)

Of the 5 people that passed, only one was proven to be due to violence, and that was an officer shooting a civilian.

The officer who passed, while tragic, has still not had the details released, although many false claims have been refuted.

Kenosha is an example that appeared to have more violence:

By late August 2020, police jailed 175 people after rioters descended on the city, burned down buildings, vandalized property, and attacked uniformed officers. They seized 20 guns, and drugs were recovered while the city was under a state of emergency.

Quote
The crimes included "arson, burglary, conspiracy to commit theft of narcotics, possession of firearm/ammunition by a convicted felon, battery, criminal damage, and disorderly conduct," the department said Friday.
Y

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2021, 12:51:06 PM »
Of the 5 people that passed, only one was proven to be due to violence, and that was an officer shooting a civilian.

The officer who passed, while tragic, has still not had the details released, although many false claims have been refuted.

Kenosha is an example that appeared to have more violence:

By late August 2020, police jailed 175 people after rioters descended on the city, burned down buildings, vandalized property, and attacked uniformed officers. They seized 20 guns, and drugs were recovered while the city was under a state of emergency.

175 jailed vs 521 (and counting) charged from the events of  January 6th

the only two people killed in Kenosha were murdered by a kid who had no business being there and was illegally armed and of course is charged with murder

there is 30 + million dollars in damage to the Capitol

what point do you think you're trying to make again?

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2021, 01:04:32 PM »
175 jailed vs 521 (and counting) charged from the events of  January 6th

the only two people killed in Kenosha were murdered by a kid who had no business being there and was illegally armed and of course is charged with murder

there is 30 + million dollars in damage to the Capitol

what point do you think you're trying to make again?

30 million?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12698554/george-floyd-protests-2billion-damage/

Quote
BLACK Lives Matter protests and "riots" after the death of George Floyd did as much as $2billion worth of damage.

The costs have amounted to the costliest period of civil unrest in insurance history

The point I know I am making is that the media is dishonest, and treated the Jan 6th incident much more differently than the BLM incidents.

This is true, regardless of you attempting to set the criteria that defines it.
Y

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2021, 01:27:31 PM »
30 million?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12698554/george-floyd-protests-2billion-damage/

The point I know I am making is that the media is dishonest, and treated the Jan 6th incident much more differently than the BLM incidents.

This is true, regardless of you attempting to set the criteria that defines it.

I see, now you want to change your premise and roll a bunch of events together and then compare them to January 6th

BTW - how many cops were injured in all those events that happened over many months

Let's compare that to one FOUR HOUR PERIOD on January 6th

I have a feeling if everything was the same on January 6th except the insurgents were BLM you'd have no problem at all calling it an insurrection

Call it whatever you want

Here is an indisputable fact.  The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.  Those are facts.  We all saw it and we can all watch the videos

Tell me which part of that sentence you dispute ...if any.

Here it is one more time

The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.




Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • SC è un asino
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2021, 01:37:07 PM »
I see, now you want to change your premise and roll a bunch of events together and then compare them to January 6th

BTW - how many cops were injured in all those events that happened over many months

Let's compare that to one FOUR HOUR PERIOD on January 6th

I have a feeling if everything was the same on January 6th except the insurgents were BLM you'd have no problem at all calling it an insurrection

Call it whatever you want

Here is an indisputable fact.  The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.  Those are facts.  We all saw it and we can all watch the videos

Tell me which part of that sentence you dispute ...if any.

Here it is one more time

The mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol injuring 140+ police officers in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent Joe Biden from being declared the winner of the election.

I was using the term riot, and comparing Jan 6th to BLM movements.

All were riots.

BLM's caused far more damage. 

You are attempting to refute it for some reason by taking the event, defining time vs $ damage, vs arrests, etc then trying to find one BLM event that was worse vs your stats.  It's stupid, and doesn't refute the point.

They were both riots, but the media treated them much differently.



Y

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: "Insurrection"
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2021, 01:58:31 PM »
I was using the term riot, and comparing Jan 6th to BLM movements.

All were riots.

BLM's caused far more damage. 

You are attempting to refute it for some reason by taking the event, defining time vs $ damage, vs arrests, etc then trying to find one BLM event that was worse vs your stats.  It's stupid, and doesn't refute the point.

They were both riots, but the media treated them much differently.

if they were treated differently (from your perspective) maybe it's because they were different

The events of January 6th have never happened before

The sitting POTUS directed a mob to attack the Capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes in an attempt to prevent the winner of the election from being confirmed.  That is a short and concise and factual statement.

The violence that occurred after the George Floyd MURDER is the kind of violence we've seen many many times in this country in response to police violence against mostly unarmed and mostly black men