Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[obsidian]

Yes, I know, but my question for you (and anyone else who still holds hope for ETH) below remains:

At its peak value to BTC, 1 ETH bought 0.14 BTC. That was back in June of 2017. Since then it has declined to now being just 1 Eth being able to purchase 0.05 BTC. A terrible performance, and a perfect example of how those looking to buy "alts" to gain over ETH, instead end up behind. And as I said earlier, I expect this will continue. Do you agree? (Or do you believe this trend will reverse?). Shall we revisit, say, end of this year?

And in November 2016 the ETH / BTC pairing was 0.008 BTC. 0.05 / 0.008 = 6.25. Since November 2016 ETH has gained over a 6x valuation against BTC.

There are 120 million ETH vs a max supply of 21 million BTC. That's a 6X larger supply. Based on that, and perhaps this is not the right way to look at it, I can see ETH:BTC at 0.166 BTC.

It does not make sense to me that BTC would be worth 19.8X of ETH currently, based on the scarcity. Ethereum has numerous advantages over Bitcoin as far as capabilities go. What BTC has is a rabid Maxi base, a fawning media, and first mover advantage. Bitcoin is also less of a mouthful than Ethereum. It is easier to pronounce. McAfee mentioned that when he was alive. I would say Solana and Cardano also flows easier. It might sound simple but these things matter. Imagine if Ethereum was instead called: Wolfeschlegelsteinhausen bergerdorff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Blaine_Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorff_Sr.

I would bet it would have been a complete failure - lol!

Also perhaps the valuation of 0.05 BTC means that ETH has room to gain against BTC. Could it be that BTC is overvalued relative to ETH? I think so, but that's just me. ETH has around a 6X circulating supply compared to BTC, as far as scarcity goes. It's inflation is currently lower.

See, it all depends on when you are looking at it. Note I am seeing a peak valuation of around 0.118 BTC in May 2017 - per TradingView. But you are correct, BTC vs ETH has fluctuated over the years. It has been up and down numerous times.

You bought most of your BTC when it was $5,000 - correct? It is now at $72,000 on April 8, so that's a gain of 14.4X for you.

I mined ETH for 4 years. At times I was getting 4 ETH per month with an electrical bill of $600 /month. Leaving hardware costs out that comes to $150 per ETH. I know this ignores the cost of the hardware, and the price of ETH at the time. But the hardware can be resold. The power supplies went up in value. The GPUs lost value. I have not sold anything because I am holding out in case the dollar loses a lot of value. Plus I have been lazy. I still have all the original hardware boxes.

I might be able to sell for the original value depending on what happens to the dollar. We have a very low-rate fixed mortgage. I might use the devalued dollars to pay off the mortgage. I am probably better off just selling the hardware and redeploying the cash though.

ETH is at $3,624 at this moment. $3,624 / $150 = 24.16x. If I add $150 per ETH for the depreciated hardware it comes to around a 12x. If ETH goes back to the ATH price of $4,800 it comes to a 16X for me. BTC is already past the previous ATH.

I would have been better off buying ETH at $80 instead of mining. But you don't know how things play out before it happens. I am a computer geek and like to play with hardware. That was my excuse for jumping into the mining craze. I just wanted to build rigs.

You can take a snapshot at various times to make it come out different for each investor.

What I am curious to see is how the upcoming halving affects the decentralization of BTC. Many miners might call it quits as the rewards are reduced. Time will tell. There are lots of unknowns. But I would not say I am that far off from you in terms of investment gains.

[gib]

And in November 2016 the ETH / BTC pairing was 0.008 BTC. 0.05 / 0.008 = 6.25. Since November 2016 ETH has gained over a 6x valuation against BTC.

There are 120 million ETH vs a max supply of 21 million BTC. That's a 6X larger supply. Based on that, and perhaps this is not the right way to look at it, I can see ETH:BTC at 0.166 BTC.

It does not make sense to me that BTC would be worth 19.8X of ETH currently, based on the scarcity. Ethereum has numerous advantages over Bitcoin as far as capabilities go. What BTC has is a rabid Maxi base, a fawning media, and first mover advantage. Bitcoin is also less of a mouthful than Ethereum. It is easier to pronounce. McAfee mentioned that when he was alive. I would say Solana and Cardano also flows easier. It might sound simple but these things matter. Imagine if Ethereum was instead called: Wolfeschlegelsteinhausen bergerdorff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Blaine_Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorff_Sr.

I would bet it would have been a complete failure - lol!

Also perhaps the valuation of 0.05 BTC means that ETH has room to gain against BTC. Could it be that BTC is overvalued relative to ETH? I think so, but that's just me. ETH has around a 6X circulating supply compared to BTC, as far as scarcity goes. It's inflation is currently lower.

See, it all depends on when you are looking at it. Note I am seeing a peak valuation of around 0.118 BTC in May 2017 - per TradingView. But you are correct, BTC vs ETH has fluctuated over the years. It has been up and down numerous times.

You bought most of your BTC when it was $5,000 - correct? It is now at $72,000 on April 8, so that's a gain of 14.4X for you.

I mined ETH for 4 years. At times I was getting 4 ETH per month with an electrical bill of $600 /month. Leaving hardware costs out that comes to $150 per ETH. I know this ignores the cost of the hardware, and the price of ETH at the time. But the hardware can be resold. The power supplies went up in value. The GPUs lost value. I have not sold anything because I am holding out in case the dollar loses a lot of value. Plus I have been lazy. I still have all the original hardware boxes.

I might be able to sell for the original value depending on what happens to the dollar. We have a very low-rate fixed mortgage. I might use the devalued dollars to pay off the mortgage. I am probably better off just selling the hardware and redeploying the cash though.

ETH is at $3,624 at this moment. $3,624 / $150 = 24.16x. If I add $150 per ETH for the depreciated hardware it comes to around a 12x. If ETH goes back to the ATH price of $4,800 it comes to a 16X for me. BTC is already past the previous ATH.

I would have been better off buying ETH at $80 instead of mining. But you don't know how things play out before it happens. I am a computer geek and like to play with hardware. That was my excuse for jumping into the mining craze. I just wanted to build rigs.

You can take a snapshot at various times to make it come out different for each investor.

What I am curious to see is how the upcoming halving affects the decentralization of BTC. Many miners might call it quits as the rewards are reduced. Time will tell. There are lots of unknowns. But I would not say I am that far off from you in terms of investment gains.

Good discussion, but I think you are mixing up a few concepts here..

if you look at your graph, (and as I have explained many times before), almost any alt will outperform BTC for a short period of time after launch. So, if you take a date of 2015or 2016, of course you will see ETH "outperform" for a period of time after its launch. What we as investors need to do is be forward-looking. So, if we take a more reasonable time period,  we can see Eth appears to be on a gradual decline vs BTC. This caught many off-guard, who expected to see another 5x to BTC this cycle. They have learned a lesson here, and indeed, this cycle, so far ETH is not even 1:1, let along 5x to BTC.

The circulating supply is really totally illogical, must like how many people think that doing a stock split (or airdrops) makes a company more valuable. The market-cap remains exactly the same, the price of each share being downward inverse to the amount of dilution. Many in the "crypto community" still need to learn basic economics and mathematical concepts. But again, lessons are learned each cycle, and each cycle eventually brings such people to BTC.

No-one likes to hear they are being scammed when buying alts, but eventually the learn.

As for scarcity, BTC's scarcity is absolute. Eth's is, can, has been, and will be, changed at the whim of Vatlik and the "Ethereum Foundation" this re-creating the entire problem BTC was designed to avoid and solve. Eth is used for other things, but it has long lost the "global digital monetary protocol" narrative to BTC which is rock solid, and that in turn demands a huge predium as a result (which you now see in the comparative market caps, and the gradual decline of ETH to BTC over the last few years).

I don't know my exact BTC buy in price, but yes must be around 5k. In the run up to the 20K peak I bought most at 3K, and eventually sold almost all at around 15K (in a panic, thinking BTC was over). Made a 5x return in less than a year. I then rebought most in the 3-5K range once the dust had settled, but then also recall many top ups all along the way back up. (Indeed, I still nibble away now, but only minor amounts to my stack). So I was kind of lucky doing the 5x sell and rebuy first time around. Now onwards its just long term hodl. I am also not convinced we will see cycles in a similar pattern to prior cycles - conventional wisdom is that we will see a peak mid to late 2025 based on prior cycles - lets see.

Pretty cool to mine. I am thinking of doing some myself, more just to support the network. I have also considered raising funds to do it on a massive scale in a developing country, but that is a whole other discussion for another day...

[obsidian]

Good discussion, but I think you are mixing up a few concepts here..

if you look at your graph, (and as I have explained many times before), almost any alt will outperform BTC for a short period of time after launch. So, if you take a date of 2015or 2016, of course you will see ETH "outperform" for a period of time after its launch. What we as investors need to do is be forward-looking. So, if we take a more reasonable time period,  we can see Eth appears to be on a gradual decline vs BTC. This caught many off-guard, who expected to see another 5x to BTC this cycle. They have learned a lesson here, and indeed, this cycle, so far ETH is not even 1:1, let along 5x to BTC.

The circulating supply is really totally illogical, must like how many people think that doing a stock split (or airdrops) makes a company more valuable. The market-cap remains exactly the same, the price of each share being downward inverse to the amount of dilution. Many in the "crypto community" still need to learn basic economics and mathematical concepts. But again, lessons are learned each cycle, and each cycle eventually brings such people to BTC.

No-one likes to hear they are being scammed when buying alts, but eventually the learn.

As for scarcity, BTC's scarcity is absolute. Eth's is, can, has been, and will be, changed at the whim of Vatlik and the "Ethereum Foundation" this re-creating the entire problem BTC was designed to avoid and solve. Eth is used for other things, but it has long lost the "global digital monetary protocol" narrative to BTC which is rock solid, and that in turn demands a huge predium as a result (which you now see in the comparative market caps, and the gradual decline of ETH to BTC over the last few years).

I don't know my exact BTC buy in price, but yes must be around 5k. In the run up to the 20K peak I bought most at 3K, and eventually sold almost all at around 15K (in a panic, thinking BTC was over). Made a 5x return in less than a year. I then rebought most in the 3-5K range once the dust had settled, but then also recall many top ups all along the way back up. (Indeed, I still nibble away now, but only minor amounts to my stack). So I was kind of lucky doing the 5x sell and rebuy first time around. Now onwards its just long term hodl. I am also not convinced we will see cycles in a similar pattern to prior cycles - conventional wisdom is that we will see a peak mid to late 2025 based on prior cycles - lets see.

Pretty cool to mine. I am thinking of doing some myself, more just to support the network. I have also considered raising funds to do it on a massive scale in a developing country, but that is a whole other discussion for another day...

Well speaking for myself, there is no way I am going to convert 50% (or any amount) of my ETH to BTC and incur a taxable event in the process. The benefits would have to outweigh the taxes. It's no different than Michael Saylor who wants to avoid paying taxes. I live in the USA, have work here, my family is here. I am not going to move to a tax haven anytime soon. If I did not have those constraints then maybe.

If I were to allocate more cash into crypto, then sure, I'd get some BTC. But I don't plan to. At this point, I plan to cash out what I initially invested + a little bonus, when I think the time is right. I'll leave that bonus ready to buy more crypto in case there are big corrections. That way I am sitting on house money and not stressing about it. I did my DCA back in the day and that was enough risk for me. I also paid taxes without cashing out, because of staking and mining profits. Sure, I deducted electrical and equipment expenses. But in the end, I still owed taxes which I had to pay out of pocket.

You mentioned that you don't have to pay taxes on your stuff. So you can go in and out of cryptos at a whim.

I agree, that Ethereum has been on a downward trend since mid-2022. In 2021 it gained against Bitcoin. Then it went sideways and in mid-2022 it started to trend down, per the chart. But I don't think it is clear yet which way this is going to go in the long run. I have my doubts about the Bitcoin POW model as mining rewards keep decreasing. How decentralized will it remain? Time will tell.

[gib]

Well speaking for myself, there is no way I am going to convert 50% (or any amount) of my ETH to BTC and incur a taxable event in the process. The benefits would have to outweigh the taxes. It's no different than Michael Saylor who wants to avoid paying taxes. I live in the USA, have work here, my family is here. I am not going to move to a tax haven anytime soon. If I did not have those constraints then maybe.

If I were to allocate more cash into crypto, then sure, I'd get some BTC. But I don't plan to. At this point, I plan to cash out what I initially invested + a little bonus, when I think the time is right. I'll leave that bonus ready to buy more crypto in case there are big corrections. That way I am sitting on house money and not stressing about it. I did my DCA back in the day and that was enough risk for me. I also paid taxes without cashing out, because of staking and mining profits. Sure, I deducted electrical and equipment expenses. But in the end, I still owed taxes which I had to pay out of pocket.

You mentioned that you don't have to pay taxes on your stuff. So you can go in and out of cryptos at a whim.

I agree, that Ethereum has been on a downward trend since mid-2022. In 2021 it gained against Bitcoin. Then it went sideways and in mid-2022 it started to trend down, per the chart. But I don't think it is clear yet which way this is going to go in the long run. I have my doubts about the Bitcoin POW model as mining rewards keep decreasing. How decentralized will it remain? Time will tell.

Man - that tax stuff really is another world for me. Almost all my buddies are in the same position as me (based in tax free jurisdictions) and so the concept of a "capital gain" tax seems totally foreign to me. Some are Americans who have long given up US citizenship, but even then it still comes back to haunt them sometimes, with banks doing KYC asking if they were ever "a former US citizen". We all shake our heads at how so many people with options still want to become Americans, even with all the downside burden of mandatory taxes (even if you live outside of the US!) that comes with this "privilege".

Sounds like you have done well. At some point, those with big unrealized gains, will need to decide how to handle, if they just pack up and leave for a tax friendlier country. Many countries will happily role out the carpet any Bitcoiner. Easy to do if your Sats are in cold storage. Harder if they are locked in ETF's. I am not a tax expert, but maybe it would be possible to borrow against the BTC as a security for money loaned in fiat, but never selling the asset itself, and therefore not creating a taxable event? There would have to be a way around this. Also, of course, if you acquired you Sats peer to peer, away from a KYC compliant exchange or bank, you might also be safe.

[Flexacon]

Yes, I know, but my question for you (and anyone else who still holds hope for ETH) below remains:

At its peak value to BTC, 1 ETH bought 0.14 BTC. That was back in June of 2017. Since then it has declined to now being 1 Eth being able to purchase just 0.05 BTC. A terrible performance, and a perfect example of how those looking to buy "alts" to gain over BTC, instead end up behind over time. And as I said earlier, I expect this will continue. Do you agree? (Or do you believe this trend will reverse?). Shall we revisit, say, end of this year?

I haven't held ETH for a long time, at least not in the expectation of seeing profit from it, but I have used it to provide liquidity and stake for airdrops and points. With hindsight I wish I had done more of this as it was the easiest and lowest risk money to be made in the space.

I don't really care what BTC, ETH, or any other ALT were doing in 2017, because every cycle different. The trends in every cycle is different. I prefer to adjust to each cycle and even front run the trends if I can, so lets say this.

Even with my pessimistic/bearish bias on ETH price on it's own I still expect it to match if not better bitcoin price action from their 2022 cycles low to their next cycle highs. Are you willing to revisit this?

[Flexacon]

US citizens who do not want to give it up just need to move to Puerto Rico for 6 months and 1 day and are then entitled to tax free crypto. At least this was the case when I last looked a couple of years back.

I set up a "business" in Dubai to do the same.

[gib]

I don't really care what BTC, ETH, or any other ALT were doing in 2017, because every cycle different. The trends in every cycle is different. I prefer to adjust to each cycle and even front run the trends if I can, so lets say this.

Even with my pessimistic/bearish bias on ETH price on it's own I still expect it to match if not better bitcoin price action from their 2022 cycles low to their next cycle highs. Are you willing to revisit this?

I expect BTC to outperform. Yes, lets revisit (although I am not even sure we will see "cycles" like we have seen in the part - at least not cycles do much influenced by the halving, but more likely global economic macro-cycles).

[Amerian Muscle]

I ended up selling the gold and when I sold it started pumping. I have been depressed since, truly brutal. I just a few minutes ago bought 1 bitcoin after weeks of mental gymnastics and end of the world feelings.  hopefully all will end well

[Amerian Muscle]

I kept the other half of the gold money in cash just in case bitcoin will now.go to zero or take a huge hit.

[SouJerz]

I would hold gold right now could gold could be entering a bull market just topped 2100 I think. Maybe we see 2500 GLD?

In hind sight this was pretty good advice if you had taken it.

[gib]

I ended up selling the gold and when I sold it started pumping. I have been depressed since, truly brutal. I just a few minutes ago bought 1 bitcoin after weeks of mental gymnastics and end of the world feelings.  hopefully all will end well

You did the right thing. Over the next decade, I believe BTC will 10x outperform gold. Yes, BTC will be more volatile along the way, but long term / zoomed out you did it right. Second, quite apart from the expected outperformance, there are also some really other good reasons to be holding BTC vs gold. If/when the shit really hits the fan, you will understand why.

Any time you make an investment, there is basically a 50/50 chance it will be "down" the next day. Ignore the noise - invest for the long term trend.

I hold a little gold myself for a range of reasons. Love the feeling of holding it. And loved the pure ability to buy something which took so much effort to extract and bring it to the point where I as a customer could become its owner. I have not calculated exactly, but I think my gold is around 2.5% the value of the BTC I have.

[Amerian Muscle]

In hind sight this was pretty good advice if you had taken it.

Yes. My shit is fucked up. Too late to cry now so lets see where this takes me.

[Amerian Muscle]

You did the right thing. Over the next decade, I believe BTC will 10x outperform gold. Yes, BTC will be more volatile along the way, but long term / zoomed out you did it right. Second, quite apart from the expected outperformance, there are also some really other good reasons to be holding BTC vs gold. If/when the shit really hits the fan, you will understand why.

Any time you make an investment, there is basically a 50/50 chance it will be "down" the next day. Ignore the noise - invest for the long term trend.

I hold a little gold myself for a range of reasons. Love the feeling of holding it. And loved the pure ability to buy something which took so much effort to extract and bring it to the point where I as a customer could become its owner. I have not calculated exactly, but I think my gold is around 2.5% the value of the BTC I have.

You are most likely right. I regret selling gold too early, but I regret a thousand times more buying bitcoin so late. I see my cancelled orders for 3 bitcoin last year at around 25k. Cancelled them because I got scared thinking it would go to zero after buying it. I look at those cancelled orders to remind me that my instincts are always completely wrong. Or maybe they are right and then overpowered by doubt and fear

All this stuff is psychologically complex to deal with but I figure I cannot keep dwelling on missed opportunities

[Amerian Muscle]

I put a sell order for 1 million

[gib]

Nice little short seller shakeout last few days, with BTC going from 72.5K down to around 67.5K (and now on the way back up again).

This was thread was started as BTC was poised to hit 5K. Now we see 5K movements  in price (the entire value of a BTC back then) in a single day, which gives you a sense of scale and how much BTC's market cap has grown.

We can expect to see some vol in the lead up and aftermath, of the halving (due around 18 April). But its all good - buy on any dip if you can.

Some speculators make money on these movements, some lose. But is just so easy if you hodl, knowing that despite all the short term vol, its just up and up and up over time...

[gib]

Halving #4 is upon us...

A little article from Kraken.

We’re about two weeks out from the next Bitcoin halving, and you might be wondering, "How will it affect crypto and the bitcoins I hold?" It's a great question. Our answer: Relax — the halving won't directly impact any of your existing bitcoin holdings.

The halving simply reduces the reward that miners receive for mining blocks by 50%.

How the 2024 ‘Halving’ Could Impact Bitcoin

We did a little digging around in the numbers, and the data suggests it has taken around 406* days for prices to peak after a halving.

Mega Important Disclaimer: Past performance does not guarantee future results. While many believe halvings drive these rallies, other factors are at play and future outcomes remain uncertain.

Bitcoin halvings
Halving #1 - November 2012
While scientists were busy finding the Higgs-Boson particle at CERN, by November 2012 Bitcoin was beginning to find its feet in the financial jungle. With 11 million bitcoins in circulation, the first halving cut the block reward for miners from 50 BTC to 25 BTC.

Exactly one year later (November 28, 2013), bitcoin was up 7,431%.

Halving #2 - July 2016
As the Pokémon GO craze began sweeping the world, by July 2016 Bitcoin was gaining broader traction as a mainstream financial tool. The second halving of block rewards from 25 BTC to 12.5 BTC was met with increased anticipation.

After the event, prices surged again. By July 9, 2017, exactly one year after this halving, prices had increased by 279%.

Halving #3 - May 2020
Bitcoin’s third halving coincided with the global pandemic, making it a unique test for the leading cryptocurrency. With block rewards cut to 6.25 BTC, many were wondering if prices would continue the historic post-halving trend.

By May 11, 2021—exactly one year after this halving—bitcoin’s price had increased by 539%, showcasing its resilience even during turbulent economic times.

So there you have it, Bitcoin halvings in a nutshell.

[Amerian Muscle]

I feel so much regret for not buying bitcoin years ago. At least now I have one  "whole coin"
How do people sleep at night with all this regret? I cant sleep at all thinking about how I ruined my life by not buying bitcoin earlier. Its all over 

[loco]

I feel so much regret for not buying bitcoin years ago. At least now I have one  "whole coin"
How do people sleep at night with all this regret? I cant sleep at all thinking about how I ruined my life by not buying bitcoin earlier. Its all over 

How do you feel about not investing in an S&P 500 Index fund years ago?  How about Apple stock?  How about not buying real estate cheap in 2010?

It's easy to look back and have regrets, but nobody knew what was going to happen.  You could have just as easily lost all your money to bitcoin.  Just forget the past and move forward.

[obsidian]

I feel so much regret for not buying bitcoin years ago. At least now I have one  "whole coin"
How do people sleep at night with all this regret? I cant sleep at all thinking about how I ruined my life by not buying bitcoin earlier. Its all over 

You're just going to drive yourself nuts. In a perfect world we all make fantastic investments and become millionaires / billionaires.

Besides mining Ethereum, I spent around $12,500 on cryptos in 2017/2018. I looked at the charts. Instead all my dumb purchases, if I had just taken that money and bought BNB at $2 in 2017, I would have had 6,250 BNB. BNB is right now at $614, not far from its ATH price. 6,250 x $614 = $3,837,500

BNB would have been the best purchase of all in December 2017. Not BTC, ETH, Doge, or any other.

[obsidian]

How do you feel about not investing in an S&P 500 Index fund years ago?  How about Apple stock?  How about not buying real estate cheap in 2010?

It's easy to look back and have regrets, but nobody knew what was going to happen.  You could have just as easily lost all your money to bitcoin.  Just forget the past and move forward.

One poor bastard mined around 7000 BTC. He or his wife accidentally recycled the hard drive that contained his wallet / keys. All down the drain. Now that guy must feel like absolute shit. The higher BTC's price goes the worse he will feel.

EDIT: IT was 8000 BTC. That's worth over $500 million now!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/02/man-hopes-ai-and-robot-dogs-will-help-recover-150m-in-bitcoin-from-landfill

[Mayday]

One poor bastard mined around 7000 BTC. He or his wife accidentally recycled the hard drive that contained his wallet / keys. All down the drain. Now that guy must feel like absolute shit. The higher BTC's price goes the worse he will feel.

EDIT: IT was 8000 BTC. That's worth over $500 million now!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/02/man-hopes-ai-and-robot-dogs-will-help-recover-150m-in-bitcoin-from-landfill

Don’t buy paper gold because it’s not real
Don’t buy real gold because it’s counterfeit
Buy Bitcoin but don’t keep it on an exchange because they’ll steal it
Buy Bitcoin but don’t deposit it for yield because not your keys

Buy Bitcoin and keep it on cold storage where it’s nice and safe……

The highest odds of losing something is when it is in your own possession. Maxis know this and push it to plebs in the hope they lose their coins. Back in 2021 maxis were tweeting about deaths of holders and how their coins were forever lost in supply. Those maxis are still around today.

[obsidian]

Don’t buy paper gold because it’s not real
Don’t buy real gold because it’s counterfeit
Buy Bitcoin but don’t keep it on an exchange because they’ll steal it
Buy Bitcoin but don’t deposit it for yield because not your keys

Buy Bitcoin and keep it on cold storage where it’s nice and safe……

The highest odds of losing something is when it is in your own possession. Maxis know this and push it to plebs in the hope they lose their coins. Back in 2021 maxis were tweeting about deaths of holders and how their coins were forever lost in supply. Those maxis are still around today.

Lol, yes. Moral of the story is you're gonna lose it either way. So far I have been very lucky with Coinbase and Binance. I was tempted to go with Celsius  because of their higher rates but ended up never following through. Glad I did not.

[SouJerz]

You're just going to drive yourself nuts. In a perfect world we all make fantastic investments and become millionaires / billionaires.

Besides mining Ethereum, I spent around $12,500 on cryptos in 2017/2018. I looked at the charts. Instead all my dumb purchases, if I had just taken that money and bought BNB at $2 in 2017, I would have had 6,250 BNB. BNB is right now at $614, not far from its ATH price. 6,250 x $614 = $3,837,500

BNB would have been the best purchase of all in December 2017. Not BTC, ETH, Doge, or any other.

My friend had 1000 ethereum at a price of 16 dollars each and sold them all at a price of 80. Talk about bummer.

[gib]

Don’t buy paper gold because it’s not real
Don’t buy real gold because it’s counterfeit
Buy Bitcoin but don’t keep it on an exchange because they’ll steal it
Buy Bitcoin but don’t deposit it for yield because not your keys

Buy Bitcoin and keep it on cold storage where it’s nice and safe……

The highest odds of losing something is when it is in your own possession. Maxis know this and push it to plebs in the hope they lose their coins. Back in 2021 maxis were tweeting about deaths of holders and how their coins were forever lost in supply. Those maxis are still around today.

Wow - what a great post MarDay!

I must say, all my gold is real, physical gold. (I did have gold previously in a gold ETF which was delisted and liquidated below NAV - so, lesson learned).

I am hoping my gold is real gold, but agree, counterfeiting is a risk. I bought from a very reputable dealer.

I have only small amounts on BTC on various regulated exchanges, and also a little in ETFs and with MSTR. Vast amount of my sats are in cold storage.

[gib]

I feel so much regret for not buying bitcoin years ago. At least now I have one  "whole coin"
How do people sleep at night with all this regret? I cant sleep at all thinking about how I ruined my life by not buying bitcoin earlier. Its all over 

Dude, if you are wholecoiner now, well done to you. You are set for life, so long as you keep that coin.

I was encouraging this when the price was 3K. Its hard to imagine what is ahead, but there will be a huge societal difference between wholecoiners and everyone else. BTC will be at 1m before you know it, and all those who still have the chance now will really regret it if they don't act soon to get those increasingly precious sats...