Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 764862 times)

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7550 on: June 25, 2021, 03:37:21 AM »
There are talks that ECB might ban cryptos in Europe. If that happens, compared with the situation in China, then I think cryptos are done.

. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!

a_pupil

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7551 on: June 25, 2021, 04:04:21 AM »
. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!

El Salvador and Nigeria will become the new super powers. Bitcoin to Nigeria will be like vibranium to Wakanda. Nothing to worry about.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7552 on: June 25, 2021, 04:38:40 AM »
ETH

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7553 on: June 25, 2021, 11:27:01 AM »
. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!
No one will admit to losing money.  The ego won't allow it.

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7554 on: June 25, 2021, 03:09:55 PM »


27K BTC incoming

It will take several months, perhaps backend of the year for hash rate to return to pre miner ban levels. I can see btc breaching sub 30k again. GBCT is soon to unlocok164k BTC which could easily bring BTC into 27k territory.

Im suprised its holding aswell as it is considering.....I think  more pain to come  and still in a mini bear phase.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7555 on: June 25, 2021, 06:18:56 PM »
It will take several months, perhaps backend of the year for hash rate to return to pre miner ban levels. I can see btc breaching sub 30k again. GBCT is soon to unlocok164k BTC which could easily bring BTC into 27k territory.

Im suprised its holding aswell as it is considering.....I think  more pain to come  and still in a mini bear phase.

What is the significance of your mentioning of hash-rate? Do you believe it has some bearing on price?

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7556 on: June 25, 2021, 06:26:22 PM »
. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!

False and nonsense information you have posted here. Please think before posting nonsense. You can't "ban" a mathematical algorithm, anymore than you can "ban" the fact that 1+1 = 2 (or people making use of such a calculation).

What you can do, is state that BTC is not legal tender. In this regard, almost all countries in the world have existing laws that only the Government can issue legal tender, China being no exception. What that then means is that BTC becomes an asset (as opposed to a currency), and just like any asset, be it a painting, a car, a house, gold, wine etc, people are permitted to trade it among themselves for a price that they are free to negotiate. The unique quality of BTC of course being its an asset that is infinitely divisible and instantly transferrable etc.

Anytime there is nonsense FUD, (which some idiots will believe, indeed often many idiots), this reflects itself in price. Smart investors will use any kind of idiot misunderstanding to accumulate an asset, knowing that when the incorrect information (eventually) dissipates, this is reflected in the price of the asset moving upwards.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7557 on: June 25, 2021, 06:47:42 PM »
The other point of irony is that some idiots here used Bitcoin FUD by saying "China controls Bitcoin". Now that that FUD is gone (due to miners moving out of China the same idiots are making a new FUD saying "China bans Bitcoin". They should lat least try to keep their FUD consistent! :P

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7558 on: June 25, 2021, 06:58:56 PM »
What is the significance of your mentioning of hash-rate? Do you believe it has some bearing on price?

Hash rate and price have a relationship because BTC is energy. Even Saylor says this.

Maxis blamed the April price crash on the blackout in China which crashed the hash rate. Correct.

Maxis are now saying China switching off mining and the resulting has rate crash is no longer correlated with price and is actually bullish. Incorrect.


Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7559 on: June 25, 2021, 07:24:35 PM »
False and nonsense information you have posted here. Please think before posting nonsense. You can't "ban" a mathematical algorithm, anymore than you can "ban" the fact that 1+1 = 2 (or people making use of such a calculation).

What you can do, is state that BTC is not legal tender. In this regard, almost all countries in the world have existing laws that only the Government can issue legal tender, China being no exception. What that then means is that BTC becomes an asset (as opposed to a currency), and just like any asset, be it a painting, a car, a house, gold, wine etc, people are permitted to trade it among themselves for a price that they are free to negotiate. The unique quality of BTC of course being its an asset that is infinitely divisible and instantly transferrable etc.

Anytime there is nonsense FUD, (which some idiots will believe, indeed often many idiots), this reflects itself in price. Smart investors will use any kind of idiot misunderstanding to accumulate an asset, knowing that when the incorrect information (eventually) dissipates, this is reflected in the price of the asset moving upwards.


You took my.comment literally? Obviously havent been  paying.much attention  to my posts. It was a play on words of allnthe FUD thats been spread this year.

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7560 on: June 25, 2021, 07:31:36 PM »
Hash rate and price have a relationship because BTC is energy. Even Saylor says this.

Maxis blamed the April price crash on the blackout in China which crashed the hash rate. Correct.

Maxis are now saying China switching off mining and the resulting has rate crash is no longer correlated with price and is actually bullish. Incorrect.

Correct.  Hash rate follows bitcoin price. China forced a shutdown of 60%+ of the Bitcoin network infrastructure. Forced to relocate to countries with more freedoms and renewable energy. This is a + for long sustained btc growth.  Short term, will see llengthier block times, but once difficulty readjusts it will be rock n roll.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7561 on: June 25, 2021, 07:34:13 PM »

You took my.comment literally? Obviously havent been  paying.much attention  to my posts. It was a play on words of allnthe FUD thats been spread this year.

Oops - sorry,. Was not following too closely. There are some people who make these FUD comments really believing them. I didn't realize you were taking the piss. :)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7562 on: June 25, 2021, 07:43:41 PM »
Hash rate and price have a relationship because BTC is energy. Even Saylor says this.

Maxis blamed the April price crash on the blackout in China which crashed the hash rate. Correct.

Maxis are now saying China switching off mining and the resulting has rate crash is no longer correlated with price and is actually bullish. Incorrect.

You are confusing cause and effect. The same number of BTCs are produced regardless of hashrate. The algo adjusts every 2 weeks, to ensure that the supply of BTC remains constant. So, for example, if we suddenly had half the hash rate, the mining difficulty would make it twice as lucrative for the remaining miners to mine. Currently around 900 coins are created a day (and that will drop to around 450 at next halvening). That 900 until then continues, regardless of hashrate.

So, a decline in hash-rate itself has zero impact on price. However, if you ban miners (like what happened in China), and those miners then move offshore, and then whilst they do that and move their rigs, hash-rate falls until they get back on line. And if those miners were then further long term hodlers, but suddenly then needed to sell their sats all at once in order to get the funds to finance the move their operations, yes that than can impact price. The important point being, its not the hash rate that impacted price. Rather the price fell due to miners selling to meet short term liquidity needs, and then whilst they were moving their operations their rigs went off line which in turn impacted hash rate,

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7563 on: June 25, 2021, 08:02:40 PM »
You are confusing cause and effect. The same number of BTCs are produced regardless of hashrate. The algo adjusts every 2 weeks, to ensure that the supply of BTC remains constant. So, for example, if we suddenly had half the hash rate, the mining difficulty would make it twice as lucrative for the remaining miners to mine. Currently around 900 coins are created a day (and that will drop to around 450 at next halvening). That 900 until then continues, regardless of hashrate.

So, a decline in hash-rate itself has zero impact on price. However, if you ban miners (like what happened in China), and those miners then move offshore, and then whilst they do that and move their rigs, hash-rate falls until they get back on line. And if those miners were then further long term hodlers, but suddenly then needed to sell their sats all at once in order to get the funds to finance the move their operations, yes that than can impact price. The important point being, its not the hash rate that impacted price. Rather the price fell due to miners selling to meet short term liquidity needs, and then whilst they were moving their operations their rigs went off line which in turn impacted hash rate,

Price rarely follows hashrate per se, it does follow FUD. Where there is an opportunity  to suppress  or drop the price by FUDsters then its  guaranteed. Like I said, lengthier  block times for the near term. Long term, more decentralisation  and a stronger network  and china FUD becoming irrelevant.  T

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7564 on: June 25, 2021, 08:04:03 PM »
Hash rate and price have a relationship because BTC is energy. Even Saylor says this.

Maxis blamed the April price crash on the blackout in China which crashed the hash rate. Correct.

Maxis are now saying China switching off mining and the resulting has rate crash is no longer correlated with price and is actually bullish. Incorrect.

Welcome back, when you entering back into the market?  Your cash on the sidelines in stable  coins  or fiat?

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7565 on: June 25, 2021, 09:26:19 PM »
You are confusing cause and effect. The same number of BTCs are produced regardless of hashrate. The algo adjusts every 2 weeks, to ensure that the supply of BTC remains constant. So, for example, if we suddenly had half the hash rate, the mining difficulty would make it twice as lucrative for the remaining miners to mine. Currently around 900 coins are created a day (and that will drop to around 450 at next halvening). That 900 until then continues, regardless of hashrate.

So, a decline in hash-rate itself has zero impact on price. However, if you ban miners (like what happened in China), and those miners then move offshore, and then whilst they do that and move their rigs, hash-rate falls until they get back on line. And if those miners were then further long term hodlers, but suddenly then needed to sell their sats all at once in order to get the funds to finance the move their operations, yes that than can impact price. The important point being, its not the hash rate that impacted price. Rather the price fell due to miners selling to meet short term liquidity needs, and then whilst they were moving their operations their rigs went off line which in turn impacted hash rate,

And this is where I begin to have a real problem with Bitcoin overall.

Either the network matters or it doesn’t. Either speed matters or it doesn’t.

If El Salvadore starts using volcanos to mine Bitcoin it’s apparently bullish according to maxis and the main influencers.

Yet When China shutdown 50% of BTC mining apparently it doesn’t matter at all.

Ok then, shutdown 99% of the network because clearly it doesn’t matter OR The reality is unless you are pumping increasingly mammoth amounts of energy into the bitcoin ecosystem it can’t grow. It’s as simple as Bitcoin is energy.

Here is the hash rate chart. Drop the hash rate back to 2015 level and guess what happens to price?

This isn’t a dig at you btw gib, you are a nice guy but The fact is with the hashrate crashed price will trend towards that level. It will take time to restore the hash rate and we won’t see any new high prices until that happens.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7566 on: June 25, 2021, 10:20:36 PM »
Welcome back, when you entering back into the market?  Your cash on the sidelines in stable  coins  or fiat?

Not back yet.

July or August

I’m in fiat.

Will be heavy Doge.



polychronopolous

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7567 on: June 25, 2021, 10:25:26 PM »
Correct.  Hash rate follows bitcoin price. China forced a shutdown of 60%+ of the Bitcoin network infrastructure. Forced to relocate to countries with more freedoms and renewable energy. This is a + for long sustained btc growth.  Short term, will see llengthier block times, but once difficulty readjusts it will be rock n roll.

You cut the head of the hydra off in one place(China) and it simply grows several more by packing up and moving operations, Kazakhstan and Texas being prime examples.

The network becomes FURTHER decentralized and the China FUD narrative takes a MAJOR hit in the process.

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7568 on: June 26, 2021, 01:20:52 AM »
Internet Computer ICP is down around 95 % from its high.

Ethereum is down around 60 % from its high.

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7569 on: June 26, 2021, 01:22:02 AM »
You cut the head of the hydra off in one place(China) and it simply grows several more by packing up and moving operations, Kazakhstan and Texas being prime examples.

The network becomes FURTHER decentralized and the China FUD narrative takes a MAJOR hit in the process.

Will people want to make big mining operations in El Salvador and elsewhere if the prices of cryptos keep falling?

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7570 on: June 26, 2021, 01:33:46 AM »
Will people want to make big mining operations in El Salvador and elsewhere if the prices of cryptos keep falling?

Obviously no, not if it really kept falling. But its not falling. Indeed its rising. Its up over the last 10 years, 5 years, 2 years, 1 year, 6 months... etc and has been an outstanding performing asset class over these time periods.

Most successful investors take a long term view on a trend, as opposed to a short term view on a price.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7571 on: June 26, 2021, 01:56:53 AM »
And this is where I begin to have a real problem with Bitcoin overall.

Either the network matters or it doesn’t. Either speed matters or it doesn’t.

If El Salvadore starts using volcanos to mine Bitcoin it’s apparently bullish according to maxis and the main influencers.

Yet When China shutdown 50% of BTC mining apparently it doesn’t matter at all.

Ok then, shutdown 99% of the network because clearly it doesn’t matter OR The reality is unless you are pumping increasingly mammoth amounts of energy into the bitcoin ecosystem it can’t grow. It’s as simple as Bitcoin is energy.

Here is the hash rate chart. Drop the hash rate back to 2015 level and guess what happens to price?

This isn’t a dig at you btw gib, you are a nice guy but The fact is with the hashrate crashed price will trend towards that level. It will take time to restore the hash rate and we won’t see any new high prices until that happens.

Its price that drives mining (and not the other way around). The reason for that is that the supply is fixed, regardless of how much energy is expended on mining.

So, if you take gold as an example, more mining WILL increase supply. However, if you take BTC, no matter how much mining energy used, the new supply created will remain the same.

If I could theoretically add 50% of new mining overnight, this would double hashrate, but would create zero upside in the price of BTC. (Indeed it might arguably even suppress the price, as existing miners might need to shut their now far less profitable operations, and/or sell off their accumulated BTC to help cover costs).

Its the price of BTC that determines how much energy is deployed to mine BTC (not the other way around).

If BTC goes UP in price, the profit existing miners can make also GOES UP. Hence that leads to more miners being incentivised to mine and this continues until an equilibrium is reached and until total mining cost divided by value of BTC created becomes cost neutral.

Similarly, if the price of BTC goes down, those miners who cannot mine profitably close up shop, and hash rate then falls.

You are making the error in logic equivalent of saying that its puddles of water on the ground that cause it to rain, because when you see puddles its raining. There is a difference between CORRELATION, and CAUSE and EFFECT. So, yes, puddles on the ground do correlate with it having rained, but its the rain that caused the puddles (and not the other way around).

Read Satoshi's whitepaper where he talks about mining incentives where he writes that its the value of BTC created as a reward from mining that:

"adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them. The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended."

To me the seems entirely obvious but it seems its actually quite common misunderstanding.

Below is a well researched paper on the topic by economists Dean Fantazzini and Nikita Kolodin titled "Does the Hashrate Affect the Bitcoin Price?"

They state:

"There is a long-lived perception that the bitcoin price and the hashrate (i.e., the number of computations done by bitcoin miners) are connected. Some works in the financial literature went further and theorized that the movements of the hashrate are useful in predicting the bitcoin price.

And conclude:

"The causality is always unidirectional going from the bitcoin price to the hashrate (or its proxies), with lags ranging from one week up to six weeks later.

See a longer explanation here:

https://medium.com/coinshares/an-honest-explanation-of-price-hashrate-bitcoin-mining-network-dynamics-f820d6218bdf


FitnessFrenzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7572 on: June 26, 2021, 03:07:10 AM »
I am curious to hear what you guys think about the bitcoin trading possibilities.

I support that it is possible to trade bitcoin 34/7, 365 days per year, but is it really healthy?

What if people could trade the stock market on saturdays and sundays?

I think it is good for managing volatility that trading is restricted to certain times, like we do in the stock market.

Jakobslander

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7573 on: June 26, 2021, 03:07:41 AM »
. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!

How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7574 on: June 26, 2021, 03:10:31 AM »
How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.

The issue is complex and I don't understand it fully, but Europe can ban people from owning bitcoin, like it is illegal to own drugs. Then if you can own it or not, technically speaking, is another issue.