Author Topic: Why the respect for religion?  (Read 2583 times)

Nordic Superman

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Why the respect for religion?
« on: February 18, 2008, 09:52:19 AM »
It seems bizarre to me that religion gets a special card kinda like the racism card, in regards to respect.

For example, why must I "respect" someone's choice to believe in an invisible man, who is in charge of every minute particle on Earth?

Why does society dictate that I must respect a persons choice to believe in this invisible man more so than say another persons belief in the tooth fairy?

Crazy no?
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columbusdude82

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 11:07:12 AM »
You've been reading Richard Dawkins' book, haven't you? ;)

Like I read somewhere on the Internet, people who don't want their beliefs ridiculed shouldn't go on about their crazy beliefs :)

Nordic Superman

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 11:11:23 AM »
You've been reading Richard Dawkins' book, haven't you? ;)

Like I read somewhere on the Internet, people who don't want their beliefs ridiculed shouldn't go on about their crazy beliefs :)

Yes, just finished it.

I was an atheist prior, but he picks up on many points I hadn't looked into deeply and expanded on other things.
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columbusdude82

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 11:15:05 AM »
"The God Delusion" has got to be one of the most eye-opening, brain-challenging books of the decade. Once I picked it up I was not able to put it down. I'm now re-reading it for the second time, it's that good!

OzmO

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 11:18:42 AM »
It seems bizarre to me that religion gets a special card kinda like the racism card, in regards to respect.

For example, why must I "respect" someone's choice to believe in an invisible man, who is in charge of every minute particle on Earth?

Why does society dictate that I must respect a persons choice to believe in this invisible man more so than say another persons belief in the tooth fairy?

Crazy no?

It seems that way.  But maybe this "required respect" is rooted in the long history of religious persecution.

wavelength

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 11:27:54 AM »
It seems bizarre to me that religion gets a special card kinda like the racism card, in regards to respect.

For example, why must I "respect" someone's choice to believe in an invisible man, who is in charge of every minute particle on Earth?

Why does society dictate that I must respect a persons choice to believe in this invisible man more so than say another persons belief in the tooth fairy?

Crazy no?

I agree completely. If someone thinks his 'religious feelings' can be hurt, he simply has no idea what religion is about. That, or his 'religion' isn't worth a penny to begin with.

Butterbean

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 11:33:14 AM »
Isn't it more about respecting people in general?
R

Nordic Superman

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 11:45:13 AM »
"The God Delusion" has got to be one of the most eye-opening, brain-challenging books of the decade. Once I picked it up I was not able to put it down. I'm now re-reading it for the second time, it's that good!

Yes, normally scientific and such books - even the best ones - can be a chore to read, but Dawkins makes "The God Delusion" gripping from the first page to the last.

Isn't it more about respecting people in general?

I'm not saying insult anyone. My point is, and I'm sure you must agree that religion and religious scripture gets an unwarranted amount of respect.
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columbusdude82

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 11:47:57 AM »
Isn't it more about respecting people in general?

I respect people. I think critically about IDEAS and dismiss the stupid ones!

Deicide

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 04:35:18 PM »
Respect for religion is an entirely psychological phenomenon and it is easy to deduce why we 'have to respect' religious beliefs. Generally speaking religious beliefs touch the heart and core of the most cherished ideas mankind has ever invented, 'purpose', 'immortality through the soul', 'meaning', etc. Fear of death and annihilation is one of the key elements, since by telling someone his beliefs are nonsense you are in effect telling him that the immortality (one of the common reasons people adhere to religion) his religion promises is not going to happen and that death is final.

Meaning and purpose is yet another one. Objectively seen the universe lacks any specific purpose and certainly none for our species; most religions claim that the universe not only has purpose but that WE are the central object of that purpose, usually in conjunction with some father deity figure who invigilates above us in the 'heavens'.

A third factor is authority. In Western Europe where Christianity is weak, few people take umbrage at religious criticism, whereas the USA where religious nuts abound left and right and in the more extreme cases of the Gulf states, criticism can earn you the wrath of society at the very least and in some extreme cases the death penalty.

I contend that on a personal level points 1 and 2 are the most relevant. By telling someone his beliefs are bunk you are stripping him of his identity, his reason for living, without which he cannot live and upon death shall no longer live anyway.

Point 3 generally applies to the masses. In places like the USA religious leaders still have far too much authority and garner too much respect.

The important thing to remember is that how all of this goes hand in hand.

Whilst some of us would ostensibly 'respect' an indignant man blaming Hurricane Katrina on a lack of piety towards Yahweh the fertility deity that some believe is the creator of the universe, another man (rightly so) attributing the maritime disaster to ignoring Poseidon, Greek god of the sea and earthquakes (and thus a much more likely suspect) would be laughed off the pulpit or any other public places of speaking. Therein comes into play the authority factor. Authority and tradition. Generally speaking we don't respect stupidity in society unless it is of religious nature and even then only if it conforms to established religious patterns, hence my example of Poseidon.

I miss Western Europe, no one cares about religion and they just go about their lives; much better.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 11:12:20 PM »
Isn't it more about respecting people in general?

Yep.  Respecting the right to believe or not believe.  It's as much a part of our history as anything else. 

Nordic Superman

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 12:18:09 AM »
A third factor is authority. In Western Europe where Christianity is weak, few people take umbrage at religious criticism, whereas the USA where religious nuts abound left and right and in the more extreme cases of the Gulf states, criticism can earn you the wrath of society at the very least and in some extreme cases the death penalty.

...

I miss Western Europe, no one cares about religion and they just go about their lives; much better.

Why don't you come to Europe and draw a cartoon of muhammad fucking a sheep? :-*
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Arthurshall

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 01:58:08 AM »
I would gladly do so.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 04:46:59 AM »
I would gladly do so.

lol, the website yours? Nice :D
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wavelength

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 11:28:32 AM »
Respect for religion is an entirely psychological phenomenon and it is easy to deduce why we 'have to respect' religious beliefs. Generally speaking religious beliefs touch the heart and core of the most cherished ideas mankind has ever invented, 'purpose', 'immortality through the soul', 'meaning', etc. Fear of death and annihilation is one of the key elements, since by telling someone his beliefs are nonsense you are in effect telling him that the immortality (one of the common reasons people adhere to religion) his religion promises is not going to happen and that death is final.

Meaning and purpose is yet another one. Objectively seen the universe lacks any specific purpose and certainly none for our species; most religions claim that the universe not only has purpose but that WE are the central object of that purpose, usually in conjunction with some father deity figure who invigilates above us in the 'heavens'.

A third factor is authority. In Western Europe where Christianity is weak, few people take umbrage at religious criticism, whereas the USA where religious nuts abound left and right and in the more extreme cases of the Gulf states, criticism can earn you the wrath of society at the very least and in some extreme cases the death penalty.

I contend that on a personal level points 1 and 2 are the most relevant. By telling someone his beliefs are bunk you are stripping him of his identity, his reason for living, without which he cannot live and upon death shall no longer live anyway.

Point 3 generally applies to the masses. In places like the USA religious leaders still have far too much authority and garner too much respect.

The important thing to remember is that how all of this goes hand in hand.

Whilst some of us would ostensibly 'respect' an indignant man blaming Hurricane Katrina on a lack of piety towards Yahweh the fertility deity that some believe is the creator of the universe, another man (rightly so) attributing the maritime disaster to ignoring Poseidon, Greek god of the sea and earthquakes (and thus a much more likely suspect) would be laughed off the pulpit or any other public places of speaking. Therein comes into play the authority factor. Authority and tradition. Generally speaking we don't respect stupidity in society unless it is of religious nature and even then only if it conforms to established religious patterns, hence my example of Poseidon.

I miss Western Europe, no one cares about religion and they just go about their lives; much better.

Very good post. The main point I disagree with is that you define a religion as strong, if it is dominated by fundamentalist nut cases, while it should be weak, if dominated by people who generally keep their beliefs to themselves and are not bothered by 'disrespect'. I think it's the other way round. Unfortunally, it's always the crazy bigots who scream the loudest, but strength IMO has nothing to do with loudness.

Deicide

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 04:00:43 PM »
Very good post. The main point I disagree with is that you define a religion as strong, if it is dominated by fundamentalist nut cases, while it should be weak, if dominated by people who generally keep their beliefs to themselves and are not bothered by 'disrespect'. I think it's the other way round. Unfortunally, it's always the crazy bigots who scream the loudest, but strength IMO has nothing to do with loudness.


Ja. Im angelsaechsischen Raum ist Religion und deren Glaubensinhalt systematisch gegen Kritik geschuetzt. Ich weiss, dass dies weitgehend NICHT der Fall in Westeuropa ist, aber es ist halt so in Amiland und ansatzweise in England. Deswegen sieht man gerade hier bei Getbig massenhaft Fundamentalisten, die sich gerne auf Streitereien mit Atheisten einlassen.
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beatmaster

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 10:37:11 PM »

 :-\.


are you delusional?

beatmaster

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 10:47:58 PM »
"The God Delusion" has got to be one of the most eye-opening, brain-challenging books of the decade. Once I picked it up I was not able to put it down. I'm now re-reading it for the second time, it's that good!

i wanna read the book, couldn't get my hands on it, i'll try this week!


are you delusional?

Nordic Superman

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Re: Why the respect for religion?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2008, 03:07:02 AM »
Ja. Im angelsaechsischen Raum ist Religion und deren Glaubensinhalt systematisch gegen Kritik geschuetzt. Ich weiss, dass dies weitgehend NICHT der Fall in Westeuropa ist, aber es ist halt so in Amiland und ansatzweise in England. Deswegen sieht man gerade hier bei Getbig massenhaft Fundamentalisten, die sich gerne auf Streitereien mit Atheisten einlassen.

Maybe in America, but by mentioning England are you referring to the islamic zealots?
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