Why do people still worship a 'higher power'

[Butterbean]

You may or may not find "end of everything" frightening. Maybe you do and are just arguing it to support your initial claim. Really doesn't matter.

Plenty of people do indeed find the end of consciousness frightening.

No, I would not find it frightening in the least.  If I did, I would say I did. 

If we don't exist after death, wouldn't it be much like it was for us before we were ever born?  I can't think of anything frightening about that.

[Johnny Apollo]

No, I would not find it frightening in the least.  If I did, I would say I did. 

If we don't exist after death, wouldn't it be much like it was for us before we were ever born?  I can't think of anything frightening about that.

Before we were born we had no conception of anything and didn't even exist. Now that we are alive we have conception of reality and don't want to loose it. If we die that's the end of everything in life we enjoy.

[Butterbean]

Before we were born we had no conception of anything and didn't even exist. Now that we are alive we have conception of reality and don't want to loose it. If we die that's the end of everything in life we enjoy.

But don't you see that if someone truly believed that it "would all end" when these bodies die that there would be no regret, no conciousness to realize anything when "it was all over?"

It just wouldn't matter.

 

[Johnny Apollo]

But don't you see that if someone truly believed that it "would all end" when these bodies die that there would be no regret, no conciousness to realize anything when "it was all over?"

It just wouldn't matter.

It wouldn't matter when we're dead, But it matters when we're alive because we do have a conception of the end of everything when we die.

[FREAKgeek]

Its 2006...all this praying and going to church and bumper stickers isnt working dudes

The world is still screwed

Its time to try something else

I agree. It's time to take matter onto your own hands and stop depending on a tooth fairy.

[OzmO]

People have been having a "relationship with chirst" for 2,000 years and it hasn't made the world a better place. HUMANS and their discoveries and science has made the world a better place.

Sorry Johnny, But you really are an idiot who lives in a protective box called science.  And this is aside from all the nazi-bot stuff.  Aren't you supposed to be smart?  Or maybe you are just book smart with the common sense of discarded soap dish.   

Whether GOD or Christ is "Valid" or "Invalid", their (or his and other religion's) influence has greatly affected our world for the better.  It's through their techings of forgiveness, proper moral behavior, and love, that  barely keeps our society from unraveling into chaos and the destruction of our infrastructure.   Look at what can happen when people don't think there are consquences to their behavior like the days after Iraq fell to U.S. forces.   You see in most this world, i don't have to worry about some band of warriors coming into my village and killing every male including children and selling the women into slavery.  I know becuase of the belief in "god" moral codes of government where created outlawing such behavior.

You want to know what keeps the average BLACK man from killing your racist hateful lilly white ass?  Because he believes he'll go to hell.  And if anything you should thankful for that.

[FREAKgeek]

Sorry Johnny, But you really are an idiot who lives in a protective box called science.    
Whether GOD or Christ is "Valid" or "Invalid", their (or his and other religion's) influence has greatly affected our world for the better.  It's through their techings of forgiveness, proper moral behavior, and love, that  barely keeps our society from unraveling into chaos and the destruction of our infrastructure. 

I disagree. I think what is morally correct is self evident. I know it's wrong to murder, steal, assult, fuck your wife, etc.. because I wouldn't want it done to myself. If you need a god to tell you this, what does that really say about yourself? That's one thing an atheist gets stereotyped as - one with no morals, which is incorrect.

[OzmO]

I disagree. I think what is morally correct is self evident. I know it's wrong to murder, steal, assult, f**k your wife, etc.. because I wouldn't want it done to myself. If you need a god to tell you this, what does that really say about yourself? That's one thing an atheist gets stereotyped as - one with no morals, which is incorrect.

That is absolutely NOT what i'm talking about.  Perhaps athiests get steroetyped that way.  For the most part, of the atheist i'v known, they have tended to follow the general concept of living you just talked about.   However, people in masses or as a whole, NEED to believe in  a higher power who will punish them if they screw up to keep them in line so to speak.  It's people as a group I'm talking about.  Our society has not evolved to the point where we (people in general) won't kill or steal etc... from each other for the sole reason it's not productive and they wouildn't want to have it done to them.   And i'm not insinuating their isn't any killing and stealing going on now, but that there would be lots more of it without religion.  Religion prevents this escalation not science as the above mentioned flag waving science finatic might want you to believe.  I for one, don't need GOD to keep me from doing bad things, I follow your view on it and still believe in GOD.

[Mr. Intenseone]

I disagree. I think what is morally correct is self evident. I know it's wrong to murder, steal, assult, f**k your wife, etc.. because I wouldn't want it done to myself. If you need a god to tell you this, what does that really say about yourself? That's one thing an atheist gets stereotyped as - one with no morals, which is incorrect.

I think everyone inherantly knows it's wrong to do the things you mentioned and the difference is when a person does those things does he or she feel a conviction for what they have done? I know as a Christian when I do things that would not please God I feel a deep conviction for my actions. I don't think people who don't have that relationship with Christ has that conviction or if the do they quickly blow it off and it's forgotton. We all have to pay a consequense for our immoral actions.

[Johnny Apollo]

Whether GOD or Christ is "Valid" or "Invalid", their (or his and other religion's) influence has greatly affected our world for the better.  It's through their techings of forgiveness, proper moral behavior, and love, that  barely keeps our society from unraveling into chaos and the destruction of our infrastructure.   Look at what can happen when people don't think there are consquences to their behavior like the days after Iraq fell to U.S. forces.   You see in most this world, i don't have to worry about some band of warriors coming into my village and killing every male including children and selling the women into slavery.  I know becuase of the belief in "god" moral codes of government where created outlawing such behavior.

This is ABSOLUTELY false. Moral knowledge is bred into humans(and other animals) via evolution. Evolutionary forces produce something called "empathy". In a population where the individuals don't care for one another, The population won't last very long. Empathy is a benefit to life on earth and helps it survive.

Religion has absolutely no benefit to morality. People don't refraim from doing bad things because they fear punishment! That's the stupidest thing i've ever heard!

If Religion is the reason why it's believers refraim from commiting evil then I FEAR what would happen when their religious beleifs are proven to be false!

Your claims are completly absurd. Belief in God doesn't make people Moral. I am an atheist and i'm probaly more moral than most religious people in the world! I'd never kill my family because some "God" tells me to. If a "God" told me to kill my family i'd commit myself to a mental institution!

People's moral conduct is based on their genetics as well as their upbringing in society.

In reality Religious belief correlate to higher crime rates in civilizations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html

You want to know what keeps the average BLACK man from killing your racist hateful lilly white ass?  Because he believes he'll go to hell.  And if anything you should thankful for that.

What keeps the average sane person from killing ANYONE is the fact they have empathy for human life and would not be able to kill someone else unless they absolutely had no other choice. This has nothing to do with belief in a "God".

With your logic..Me..Being an Atheist who doesn't believe in any Gods should be going out on killing sprees!

In reality I spend alot of time helping charities and doing construction work for the homeless.


 

[clever_username]

You see in most this world, i don't have to worry about some band of warriors coming into my village and killing every male including children and selling the women into slavery.  I know becuase of the belief in "god" moral codes of government where created outlawing such behavior.

Because of religious divides, exactly what you describe is going on in Darfur.

[Johnny Apollo]

That is absolutely NOT what i'm talking about.  Perhaps athiests get steroetyped that way.  For the most part, of the atheist i'v known, they have tended to follow the general concept of living you just talked about.   However, people in masses or as a whole, NEED to believe in  a higher power who will punish them if they screw up to keep them in line so to speak.  It's people as a group I'm talking about.  Our society has not evolved to the point where we (people in general) won't kill or steal etc... from each other for the sole reason it's not productive and they wouildn't want to have it done to them.   And i'm not insinuating their isn't any killing and stealing going on now, but that there would be lots more of it without religion.  Religion prevents this escalation not science as the above mentioned flag waving science finatic might want you to believe.  I for one, don't need GOD to keep me from doing bad things, I follow your view on it and still believe in GOD.

Your reasoning is completly flawed.


If your reasoning is correct then religious people should have a lower crime rate than non-religious people---This isn't the case!

If your reasoning is correct then countries which are mostly non-religious should have much higher crime rates----This isn't the case!


Non-Religious people on average commit less crimes than religious people. On average non-religious people are more intelligent. On average religious people(being less intelligent) will commit more immoral acts due to their lack of intelligence.


According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons Catholics make up 31.432% Protestant make up 28.097% (that's over 59% who are christian) and those who have no religious preference or aren't sure of their religious preference only make up 19.908% of the inmate population in America!

59% Christians..

19% unknown/no religion


Seems like you haven't done your research.

[Johnny Apollo]

I think everyone inherantly knows it's wrong to do the things you mentioned and the difference is when a person does those things does he or she feel a conviction for what they have done? I know as a Christian when I do things that would not please God I feel a deep conviction for my actions. I don't think people who don't have that relationship with Christ has that conviction or if the do they quickly blow it off and it's forgotton. We all have to pay a consequense for our immoral actions.

I feel bad for doing bad things and i'm an atheist.

I feel bad because I have "empathy" not because of any imaginary being in the sky.

[OzmO]

If Religion is the reason why it's believers refraim from commiting evil then I FEAR what would happen when their religious beleifs are proven to be false!

So do I.  Why do you think you there is so much resistance to the advance of science by the religious right?

Your claims are completly absurd. Belief in God doesn't make people Moral. I am an atheist and i'm probaly more moral than most religious people in the world! I'd never kill my family because some "God" tells me to

Again, you got it mixed up like freakgeek.  I'm talking about people in general, not people individually. You're are mixing up the behavior of groups of people withy your behavior which isn't suprising coming from a nazi-bot.   And you calling yourself moral is a fuckning joke, Mr. Final Solution.  Why don't you save that BS for your skin head mutants.

In reality I spend alot of time helping charities and doing construction work for the homeless.

Really?  for Black, Latinos, and JEWS also?

Johnny what you are speaks so loudly i can't hear what you are saying.

With your logic..Me..Being an Atheist who doesn't believe in any Gods should be going out on killing sprees!

 
Supports the above mentioned point about people compared to the individual.

What keeps the average sane person from killing ANYONE is the fact they have empathy for human life and would not be able to kill someone else unless they absolutely had no other choice. This has nothing to do with belief in a "God"

A percantage of average people based on the proffessed racist activities of others would have no problem ridding the world of that kind of scum if they thought they got a "get out of hell free card."  Beleive it.  This society, especially in America is spun so tight they are ready to break at any moment.

If your reasoning is correct then religious people should have a lower crime rate than non-religious people---This isn't the case!

If your reasoning is correct then countries which are mostly non-religious should have much higher crime rates----This isn't the case!

I'm not talking about now compared to zero crime rates.  I'm talking about now compared to 2000 years ago. 

So we're you:

People have been having a "relationship with chirst" for 2,000 years and it hasn't made the world a better place. HUMANS and their discoveries and science has made the world a better place.

Me original assertion was:

Whether GOD or Christ is "Valid" or "Invalid", their (or his and other religion's) influence has greatly affected our world for the better.

 


You are not at all impressive intellectually.

Johnny are you really smart? Or are you just good at spitting out numbers and facts and using them as a foundation for your arrogance?

[Mr. Intenseone]

I feel bad for doing bad things and i'm an atheist.

I feel bad because I have "empathy" not because of any imaginary being in the sky.

Like I said.....if atheists do feel conviction (or feel bad ) they blow it off quickly. Do you feel conviction (or feel bad ) because you are racist??

[Bigger Business]

"a·the·ist
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

Why is there a religious term for someone that thinks religion is bogus?



 

[w8tlftr]

Like I said.....if atheists do feel conviction (or feel bad ) they blow it off quickly. Do you feel conviction (or feel bad ) because you are racist??

Answer the question, Nazi-Bot. 

[Johnny Apollo]

So do I.  Why do you think you there is so much resistance to the advance of science by the religious right?

Because they want to hold onto their beliefs. They are afraid of progress.

Again, you got it mixed up like freakgeek.  I'm talking about people in general, not people individually. You're are mixing up the behavior of groups of people withy your behavior which isn't suprising coming from a nazi-bot.   And you calling yourself moral is a fuckning joke, Mr. Final Solution.  Why don't you save that BS for your skin head mutants.
Really?  for Black, Latinos, and JEWS also?

Resorting to personal insults...Grasping at straws.

I've shown in my prior post that populations who are more religious are generally more violent. So yes..Populations apply.


Yes I help Blacks and jews too. I'm not a Nazi.

A percantage of average people based on the proffessed racist activities of others would have no problem ridding the world of that kind of scum if they thought they got a "get out of hell free card."  Beleive it.  This society, especially in America is spun so tight they are ready to break at any moment.

I'm not talking about now compared to zero crime rates.  I'm talking about now compared to 2000 years ago. 

So we're you:

Me original assertion was: 


You are not at all impressive intellectually.

Johnny are you really smart? Or are you just good at spitting out numbers and facts and using them as a foundation for your arrogance?

You're making no sense.


I said that people have been worshiping jesus for 2,000 years and that hasn't made the world a better place but science HAS.

Your claims was that

Whether GOD or Christ is "Valid" or "Invalid", their (or his and other religion's) influence has greatly affected our world for the better.

You're saying it doesn't matter if a God exists but belief in God influenced society for the better.


I've proven this false already and you didn't address it.

Societies who are more religious are on average more violent.

59% of the prison population in America are Christian.

You've failed to provide any evidence supporting your bogus claim.

[Johnny Apollo]

Like I said.....if atheists do feel conviction (or feel bad ) they blow it off quickly. Do you feel conviction (or feel bad ) because you are racist??

1.Blow it off quickly? That makes no sense.


2.I'm not a Racist.


Religious nuts aren't more moral...Atheists are.

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons Catholics make up 31.432% Protestant make up 28.097% (that's over 59% who are christian) and those who have no religious preference or aren't sure of their religious preference only make up 19.908% of the inmate population in America!

59% Christians..

19% unknown/no religion

[Johnny Apollo]

"a·the·ist
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

Why is there a religious term for someone that thinks religion is bogus?

Not sure what you mean. There has to be a term for someone who doesn't believe in a God or else what would we call them? "Atheist" is alot simpler than "Those who do not believe in any gods".

[clever_username]

Johnny

I agree with the general bases of some of your religion arguments, but your prison data doesn't make sense to me. 80% of the US adult population classify themselves as Christians. If only 59% of the prison population do the same, wouldn't that mean the Christians are less prone to prison?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

[FREAKgeek]

 However, people in masses or as a whole, NEED to believe in  a higher power who will punish them if they screw up to keep them in line so to speak.  It's people as a group I'm talking about.  Our society has not evolved to the point where we (people in general) won't kill or steal etc... from each other for the sole reason it's not productive and they wouildn't want to have it done to them. 

This may be true in some cultures, but I still disagree regarding ours (US). I think for the most part, people are generally good and won't commit egregious crimes by their own conscience (regradless of what religion they practice or don't).  And after this, I believe it's laws that keep people in line. It's the thought of doing time, paying fines, or the result of public scorn that's more significant to the average person than some god. I mean, try running a country without law enforcement and you'll quickly realize this.

[Johnny Apollo]

Johnny

I agree with the general bases of some of your religion arguments, but your prison data doesn't make sense to me. 80% of the US adult population classify themselves as Christians. If only 59% of the prison population do the same, wouldn't that mean the Christians are less prone to prison?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

No. If 80% of Americans classify themselves as Christians and 59% of prison inmates are religious that doesn't mean religious people are less likely to go to prison. You have to look at the inmate population as a whole. If 59% of the inmate population is Christian that means that a MAJORITY of criminals are christians, Thus refuting the idea that christianity has any positive effect on morality. Below 10% of the American population is in Prison so that's why we see the difference of 80% Americans being christian and only 59% in Prison being christian. You don't compair the population on the outside to that on the inside. You take the population on the inside as a whole and compaire it to itself to see what percent of Criminals are christians.

[Johnny Apollo]

This may be true in some cultures, but I still disagree regarding ours (US). I think for the most part, people are generally good and won't commit egregious crimes by their own conscience (regradless of what religion they practice or don't).  And after this, I believe it's laws that keep people in line. It's the thought of doing time, paying fines, or the result of public scorn that's more significant to the average person than some god. I mean, try running a country without law enforcement and you'll quickly realize this.

It depends on the crime. Murder for instance. People don't refraim from killing people because it's illegal. They don't do it because they don't want to. If they WANTED to do it they would(and do). I wouldn't kill anyone even if it was legal to kill. I don't follow the law I follow my own moral beliefs. If the law says that marijuana is illegal..I don't care about it. If the law says slavery is legal..I don't care about it.(Of course i'll do what I can to avoid being caught,not that I smoke marijuana to begin with..But if I wanted to I would!)

The law has a track record for being imperfect which is why it's always changing and improving.

[OzmO]

This may be true in some cultures, but I still disagree regarding ours (US). I think for the most part, people are generally good and won't commit egregious crimes by their own conscience (regradless of what religion they practice or don't).  And after this, I believe it's laws that keep people in line. It's the thought of doing time, paying fines, or the result of public scorn that's more significant to the average person than some god. I mean, try running a country without law enforcement and you'll quickly realize this.

I agree with you for the most part, It's when no one is looking, which is most of the time, and the idea that one's conscience is influenced by religion, is when regious upbringing plays a role in their decision.

Because they want to hold onto their beliefs. They are afraid of progress.

Agreed, however there is more to it than that as beliefs and progress aren't the real reasons.

Resorting to personal insults...Grasping at straws.

Identifying not grasping.

I said that people have been worshiping jesus for 2,000 years and that hasn't made the world a better place but science HAS

I've proven this false already and you didn't address it.

Societies who are more religious are on average more violent.

59% of the prison population in America are Christian.

You've failed to provide any evidence supporting your bogus claim

Again we are back to the same thing.  Jesus's message of tolerence(which is something that you might not understand), forgiveness and love has influnced society for the better.  (when compared to pre-Jesus times)

In a minute i might have to draw a picture for you.

And yes science has helped make the world a better place BUT it hasn't exactly helped make people better people.  It hasn't help make them more forgiving, more tolerent and more loving