Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[gib]

One person expressing his views about what data is stored in the blocks, or indeed discussing/proposing any other technical feature or concern is not something negative. Indeed Bitcoin has been improved and strengthened over time through such debate, and discussion.

As for the incentive to mine, that has been discussed many times. Its a virtuous cycle, where everyone will continue to act in self interest, which in turn benefits the network.

None of this FUD warrants the support of a "superior shitcoin".

[Flexacon]

One person expressing his views about what data is stored in the blocks, or indeed discussing/proposing any other technical feature or concern is not something negative. Indeed Bitcoin has been improved and strengthened over time through such debate, and discussion.

As for the incentive to mine, that has been discussed many times. Its a virtuous cycle, where everyone will continue to act in self interest, which in turn benefits the network.

None of this FUD warrants the support of a "superior shitcoin".

Returns on bitcoin have been diminishing. That's not FUD, that's fact.

A more secure (future proof) network creates more investor confidence/strong hands and brings in more investors. How would collecting more fees and developing other fee collecting streams that would further help secure the bitcoin network not be in the self interest of BTC holders?

I see the current core developers as the biggest obstacle to doing that. And yes it's a huge negative having close minded core developers. Do you think other developers looking to do something in the space want to work with hostile close minded core team? No, they'd prefer to work in an environment that offers more freedom and collaboration.

[Agnostic007]

wait for march

[OneMoreRep]

wait for march

Oh, I can't wait. There's so much potentially dropping come March.

"1"

[Flexacon]

Oh, I can't wait. There's so much potentially dropping come March.

"1"

Spill da beanz!

Give us some not financial advice financial advice.

[OneMoreRep]

Spill da beanz!

Give us some not financial advice financial advice.

I'm curious to see what movements the Federal Reserve takes towards further unveiling their FedNow service, which could/would then evolve into the Central Bank Digital Currency that the US seems to be very clearly moving towards.

I'm curious to see whether the Ripple VS SEC trial comes to an end. Not because I think $XRP will go to $589 or $10,000 per coin (or some other retarded notion like that), but more because if the SEC does win, it will effect the entire crypto market in a potentially adverse fashion. Their oversight and control could become a big problem for ALL cryptos, maybe with the exception of Bitcoin.

There is talks about Brazil and Argentina spearheading a common currency issuance project and by March we might know more.

There is talks about Russian and Iran developing a gold back stablecoin to facilitate trade, given the recent drone strikes by Israel in Iran, would like to see what happens as these events could lead to escalation.

Lastly, I wonder how far Putin will allow for the USA to continue sending Ukraine everything short of actual boots on the ground to continue this proxy war. You corner a rabid animal into a corner and sooner or later they will unleash their nuclear arsenal to make a stand. I don't want that in the slightest bit, but it almost seems inevitable at the rate we are going and if a WW3 scenario becomes a reality, our economy will completely tank and we will experience a devastating crash.

None of this can be used for financial advice, as it's all very speculative, but it keeps me excited about the prospect of some things, worried about others.

"1"

[Flexacon]

I'm curious to see what movements the Federal Reserve takes towards further unveiling their FedNow service, which could/would then evolve into the Central Bank Digital Currency that the US seems to be very clearly moving towards.


There is talks about Brazil and Argentina spearheading a common currency issuance project and by March we might know more.

There is talks about Russian and Iran developing a gold back stablecoin to facilitate trade, given the recent drone strikes by Israel in Iran, would like to see what happens as these events could lead to escalation.

Lastly, I wonder how far Putin will allow for the USA to continue sending Ukraine everything short of actual boots on the ground to continue this proxy war. You corner a rabid animal into a corner and sooner or later they will unleash their nuclear arsenal to make a stand. I don't want that in the slightest bit, but it almost seems inevitable at the rate we are going and if a WW3 scenario becomes a reality, our economy will completely tank and we will experience a devastating crash.

"1"

Full pivot to CBDC (backed by the US war machine) when the dollar eventually collapses seems to be a popular theory. Would explain a lot of the above.

I'm curious to see whether the Ripple VS SEC trial comes to an end. Not because I think $XRP will go to $589 or $10,000 per coin (or some other retarded notion like that), but more because if the SEC does win, it will effect the entire crypto market in a potentially adverse fashion. Their oversight and control could become a big problem for ALL cryptos, maybe with the exception of Bitcoin.

"1"

I don't think Ripple will win. Ripple own all XRP so anyone buying XRP is buying direct from Ripple. That's seems to be the reasoning the SEC going after them and not all the other ALTS. There is also precedent where an ALT was fined by the SEC and then it continued trading as a security. Most of the major ALTS are now racing towards trying to becoming more decentralized. To me it looks like they'll be hit with a SEC fine for their ICOs, but won't be treated as a security if there's some decentralization.

UK proposed regulatory guidelines today btw. Basically they'll regulate exchanges but leave it up to exchanges to list and offer coins. Exchanges will be responsible for making customers whole if they offer pump and dump coins.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64468617

99% of the alts coins might get wiped out, but that might not be a bad thing.

[OneMoreRep]

Full pivot to CBDC (backed by the US war machine) when the dollar eventually collapses seems to be a popular theory. Would explain a lot of the above.

I feel strongly that this will happen given all the talks at a worldwide level of full transitioning to CBDCs. Moreover, the Federal Reserve will be releasing their FedNow service soon, which is believed to be the precursor to the US CBDC.

I don't think Ripple will win. Ripple own all XRP so anyone buying XRP is buying direct from Ripple. That's seems to be the reasoning the SEC going after them and not all the other ALTS. There is also precedent where an ALT was fined by the SEC and then it continued trading as a security. Most of the major ALTS are now racing towards trying to becoming more decentralized. To me it looks like they'll be hit with a SEC fine for their ICOs, but won't be treated as a security if there's some decentralization.

I honestly have no clue how the lawsuit will end. I do know that the SEC lawyers are pretty pathetic by way of their pedigree and the Ripple lawyers are some of the best I've ever seen. That said, it's a hard battle to fight when going against the SEC, as I feel as if the system is meant to work for the better outcome in the SEC's advantage. All talks from legal "experts" suggest that the judge might provide a decision/verdict some time in March.

UK proposed regulatory guidelines today btw. Basically they'll regulate exchanges but leave it up to exchanges to list and offer coins. Exchanges will be responsible for making customers whole if they offer pump and dump coins.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64468617

99% of the alts coins might get wiped out, but that might not be a bad thing.

I think proposed regulatory guidelines are good for the industry. It's been the wild west for a while and it's just not safe enough (considering all these fly-by-night exchange scams and shitcoins that are merely pump and dump schemes). Short of Bitcoin, I don't know many coins that are safe investments. I have a few that I have added to my portfolio that are promising by way of utility, but it's a hard shot in the dark to try to figure out what might be the best options. I also agree that if 99% of coins get wiped out it might not be a bad thing. Too many of these coins tends to muddy the water in my opinion. We don't need so many similar coins being around.

"1"

[obsidian]

That article mis-describes what a mining pool actually is. You need to be careful not to confuse or obfuscate concepts without thinking it though a little deeper.

A mining pool consists of a large number of individual miners, who mine independently, but combine to share blocks when discovered (giving more consistent and predicable flow of income). This does not mean an entire pool could be coerced into a 51% attack. Indeed it would be virtually impossible given how many miners are in a typical pool of miners, and secondly because there would be no financial incentive to do so (indeed quite contrary to any financial incentive) to do so any individual miner. This is part of the beauty of the proof of work model. Every aspect of the ecosystem is incentivized through self interest, to benefit the strength of the network. So yes, a pool itself is "centralized" to the extent the share block rewards, but they consist of thousands of decentralized miners who act independently and in self interest. So, what you need to do is look at the power of each individual miner, and then bare in mind that new minders as constantly coming along, either to mine alone, or joining a pool. Think of a pool really simply as shared payments.

I'll give you a simple example. Lets say we have 9000 orange growers in the US. 4000 of those decide to join an producers collective - ie they all sell to a single aggregator who in turn gives a guaranteed price and is a consistent buyer. Does that mean that if the aggregator tried to order all 4000 producers to destroy their crops, that each independent grower would do that? Of course not. Why? Well because even though the "pool" is a centralized entity, it consists of many decentralized players. Indeed any smart individual grower would immediately would know that their oranges immediately become more valuable if others were to disappear. Classic economic game theory.

Mining pools actually incentivize more miners to enter the mining business, as they can get a consistent and immediate return on capital, and then grow without large outlay, due to the predicable and immediate shared income. As a result, they are a positive force to the strength on the network.

The second (and 3rd layer) technologies are built on top of Bitcoin, not into Bitcoin itself (but yes, it is correct that Bitcoin can be modified to be optimized for such 2nd layer solutions). This is core to the ethos and tenants of BTC. BTC, as open source code can be modified (and indeed is regularly tweaked). This is indeed because bitcoin is decentralized - it has no centralized leadership (unlike ETH, which can essentially be "selfishly" be changed to the benefit of those with larger stakes - which of course was the whole problem with fiat currencies BTC was designed to defend against, where some small minority in the financial system are advantaged over many others). Proof of stake on the other hand, is a perversion of the fundamental concept of a decentralized currency. All are not equal under ETH, On the other hand, all stakeholders in the BTC ecosystem are incentivized to ensure that any upgrades to the network are backward-compatible and its ultimately up to the community as a whole to approve of any so called "consensus changes" (the taproot upgrade being one such example). And any change to the BTC code inures the benefit of all Bitcoin holders in a proportionate and equal manner.

I mined for years on various mining pools. When you mine to a pool you are using their servers to discover blocks along with everyone else on that pool. A mining pool can be a single point of failure. If the mining pool's servers are taken offline then all the machines that were mining on that pool will be offline. I've seen this happen personally. The rigs will be mining happily and all of a sudden stop due to errors connecting to the pool. The rigs will then idle and temperatures will drop fast. Those rigs are then offline to the mining pool, even though they have a functional internet connection.

So attacking the pool or removing their electrical power could effectively remove 25% of the hash rate from the Bitcoin network. If the mining pool is dishonest then all rigs that are on the pool will be dishonest, even if it was not their intent. Sure, why would they want to do that? The pool will destroy their reputation. And they would be wasting their electrical consumption along with everyone else that unwittingly mined on the pool. But what if a terrorist blows up their warehouses where the servers are located? I know most pools will have servers on multiple continents. But it could be possible for an attack on more than one continent.

Ethereum validators also don't have an incentive to be dishonest. A dishonest ETH validator will actually lose their ETH holdings. Potentially 32 ETH per validator. That's a much more severe penalty compared to just wasting electrical power to attack a network. And there are tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people watching the Ethereum network 24/7. If any dishonest validators exist they will be rooted out fast. The changes could be rolled back if they ever succeeded with an attack. So why would anyone risk attacking the ETH network if there's no real reward for doing that but an expensive penalty?

[Flexacon]

One person expressing his views about what data is stored in the blocks, or indeed discussing/proposing any other technical feature or concern is not something negative. Indeed Bitcoin has been improved and strengthened over time through such debate, and discussion.

As for the incentive to mine, that has been discussed many times. Its a virtuous cycle, where everyone will continue to act in self interest, which in turn benefits the network.

None of this FUD warrants the support of a "superior shitcoin".

Well it seems one of the Bitcoin core developers is going down the censorship route. Looks like you might have been supporting the "superior shitcoin" all along.

[gib]

Flex - you are obviously quite intelligent, and think more about the technical side of Bitcoin than most people, which is a good thing. However, I think you are either prone to mis-interpreting risks, or may just trolling (or maybe a bit of both?). I would write a longer reply, but can I suggest you take a view of this (and actually anyone interested in this topic).

[Mayday]

Oh, I can't wait. There's so much potentially dropping come March.

"1"

Market is broken so an event is a convenient coincidence for timing to dump. It’s not March you need to watch for, it’s April.

December 2021 S&P 4,800
Fed funds rate 0.08
Peak of loose policy cycle

January 2023 S&P 4,180
Fed Funds rate 4.75%
Continuing tightening policy cycle
Money supply starting a decline YoY

Market is YOLOing after a predicted 0.25% rise. March will be 0.25% and April 0%.

Assume the same behaviour continues at each meeting. April becomes the key because it’s the first time the Fed will pause in over a year.

If this is a disbelief rally it stays afloat because the shorts keep getting wiped out which only adds fuel to the fire. I saw so many repeat ‘easy short BTC at 23k down to 20k’  on high leverage they all got stopped and price tapped 24k.

If my thoughts are true then we have run way up to May for a rally of the spastics. It’s inevitable this blows up and no doubt some scapegoat excuse will be given rather than acknowledge it was a last exit liquidity attempt.

[Mayday]

Just to add more reason I say a ‘rally of spastics’ is so many had PUTS on the market because the VIX was looking for rotation. Market might very well stop them all out, no doubt many already have been.

What’s the saying? The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

The market is trying to front run the front run. April will be shit data, no rate hike, markets will go apeshit upwards. QE won’t start from ATH so there is zero chance this front Run of the front run will work. Gunna end in tears.

[Flexacon]

Flex - you are obviously quite intelligent, and think more about the technical side of Bitcoin than most people, which is a goo thing. However, I think you are either prone to mis-interpreting risks, or may just trolling (or maybe a bit of both?). I wouid write a longer reply, but can I suggest you take a view of this (and actually anyone interested in this topic).

I was mostly trolling, but also making a point about the hypocrisy of core developers and some maxis. A few years back the same developers made a big song and dance over Vitalik taking steps to reduce "spam" on Ethereum. Now one of them is trying to do the same on Bitcoin.

I did watch the video and I pretty much came to some of the same conclusions a couple of days ago

Returns on bitcoin have been diminishing. That's not FUD, that's fact.

A more secure (future proof) network creates more investor confidence/strong hands and brings in more investors. How would collecting more fees and developing other fee collecting streams that would further help secure the bitcoin network not be in the self interest of BTC holders?

I see the current core developers as the biggest obstacle to doing that. And yes it's a huge negative having close minded core developers. Do you think other developers looking to do something in the space want to work with hostile close minded core team? No, they'd prefer to work in an environment that offers more freedom and collaboration.

[Flexacon]

Just to add more reason I say a ‘rally is spastics’ is so many had PUTS on the market because the VIX was looking for rotation. Market might very well stop them all out, no doubt many already have been.

What’s the saying? The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

The market is trying to front run the front run. April will be shit data, no rate hike, markets will go apeshit upwards. QE won’t start from ATH so there is zero chance this front Run of the front run will work. Gunna end in tears.

I'm in the same camp. The rally will trap bulls and then those sitting in cash who deploy too early.

Q4 earnings for FAANG will look bullish because they've been cooked and it will continue the pump. (We'll find out soon)

Q1 earnings will be different though and that's when longs will start feeling the pain. Don't think we'll see QE though. No need with that $2trillion sitting in RR.

[OneMoreRep]

Just to add more reason I say a ‘rally is spastics’ is so many had PUTS on the market because the VIX was looking for rotation. Market might very well stop them all out, no doubt many already have been.

What’s the saying? The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

The market is trying to front run the front run. April will be shit data, no rate hike, markets will go apeshit upwards. QE won’t start from ATH so there is zero chance this front Run of the front run will work. Gunna end in tears.

I concur and can see this playing out. Doubt QE will commence once more, but that's me assuming the FED won't be able to justify using gasoline to put out the inflationary fire. We shall see what direction these cowboys take.

Also, still think some Swan event could occur that sets forth a global financial crisis/reset with resultant new global financial system. Possible Swan events include: New pandemic with super virulent strain that is devastating to people in a way that makes COVID-19 pale in comparison VS full out world war 3 due to continued poking of the Russian bear with allies on both sides getting involved.

Again, we shall see. It does suck to be in this holding pattern.

"1"

[loco]

Hi mate, hope all is well crazy times huh!

Gib is a nice guy, well behaved and polite. Have to give guys like that respect.

if we see S&P close to 4,100 then nuke sub 3,500 (maybe 3,200) I’m going gigga long lines of credit just like I did in 2020. my own data tracking is showing we are playing out at twice the speed of history.   I’m assuming we nuke lower but let’s see.

February 2, 2023 4:42 PM EST

"S&P 500 (.SPX) gained 60.55 points, or 1.47%, to 4,179.76"

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/nasdaq-futures-jump-more-than-1-meta-surge-fed-relief-2023-02-02/

[Mayday]

I concur and can see this playing out. Doubt QE will commence once more, but that's me assuming the FED won't be able to justify using gasoline to put out the inflationary fire. We shall see what direction these cowboys take.

Also, still think some Swan event could occur that sets forth a global financial crisis/reset with resultant new global financial system. Possible Swan events include: New pandemic with super virulent strain that is devastating to people in a way that makes COVID-19 pale in comparison VS full out world war 3 due to continued poking of the Russian bear with allies on both sides getting involved.

Again, we shall see. It does suck to be in this holding pattern.

"1"

It’s a major inflationary Cycle reset so it goes harder for longer.

US media house 1940 $2,938
uS median house 1950 $7,354 / 256%

US median house 1970 $17,000
US median house 1980 $47,200 / 278%

US median house pre pandemic $258,000
US media house 2022 $398,000 / 154% —> when in your life have you ever seen this speed before? 

Property is the largest market on the planet, its bailout is the monetisation of debt which is why it goes up. US median property to 697k will utterly wreck people.

[Agnostic007]

I bought Tesla at at $112.. Should I sell or hold

[DooM_]

the '' sky is falling ''  narrative still going strong in this thread . . .

[Mayday]

I bought Tesla at at $112.. Should I sell or hold

My general rule of thumb is:

1) buy the dip
2) hold for too long
3) ride it to new lows
4) take profit

Have we seen a Tesla back at $48 yet? No. Therefore hold and ride the back of the wave.

[blackpele]

Bitcoin core developers encouraging censorship and trying to gatekeep isn't just "technical debate". That kinda thing goes fundamentally against decentralization and bitcoin.

You don't seem to have a problem with this and your go to defence is to attack the ETH community and shitcoins when they have nothing to do with it. It's time to take the maxi blinkers off for a minute and call this kinda thing out.

Long term Bitcoin has a problem, if the price doesn't keep doubling every 4 years then then the security model breaks. It needs development to make sure the network can still remain secure even if the price doesn't double. It needs more than just the lighting network (which in its current state isn't fit purpose) Core developers gatekeeping just pushes away the people who can help achieve that, just like it did back in 2014/15.

Flexacon please explain why the doubling of price is necessary for the security of the bitcoin network and when do you think this fault in the code will hit the network hard ?

[Flexacon]

Flexacon please explain why the doubling of price is necessary for the security of the bitcoin network and when do you think this fault in the code will hit the network hard ?

The halving cuts miner rewards (BTC) in half approximately every 4 years, so for miners to remain profitable and to maintain current network security the price of BTC needs to double as the rewards half. Without this bitcoin could eventually come under a 51% attack

Miners also earn transaction fees. More people using bitcoin (and it's higher price) means more fees are collected. Eventually this will exceed miner rewards and bitcoin will reach a steady state without the need for the price to double. This is looking like being at some point around 2032.

So from now until 2032 bitcoin needs to double in price every 4 years. Then it needs to move to a steady state collecting transaction fees.

The price isn't guaranteed to double every 4 years and the fee model for bitcoin as it stands isn't fit for purpose. All this would leave bitcoin vulnerable to attack.

This of course is just my basic interpretation of where things stand. An even more basic interpretation is that bitcoin needs a consistent supply of new money coming otherwise it dies.

[blackpele]

The halving cuts miner rewards (BTC) in half approximately every 4 years, so for miners to remain profitable and to maintain current network security the price of BTC needs to double as the rewards half. Without this bitcoin could eventually come under a 51% attack

Miners also earn transaction fees. More people using bitcoin (and it's higher price) means more fees are collected. Eventually this will exceed miner rewards and bitcoin will reach a steady state without the need for the price to double. This is looking like being at some point around 2032.

So from now until 2032 bitcoin needs to double in price every 4 years. Then it needs to move to a steady state collecting transaction fees.

The price isn't guaranteed to double every 4 years and the fee model for bitcoin as it stands isn't fit for purpose. All this would leave bitcoin vulnerable to attack.

This of course is just my basic interpretation of where things stand. An even more basic interpretation is that bitcoin needs a consistent supply of new money coming otherwise it dies.

Thanks for the answer Flexacon, in 15 lines you provided more value than all these youtube channels with million of subscribers, telling us that the bitcoin price will eventually reach a million $ per coin in the next decade....lol
By the way what do you think about Ethereum, I am watching the tokenomics (6-7% yield & reduction in issuance) after the merge and they look great, however I am a bit worried about the SEC declaring it as a security and to be honest right now under the Howey test the current form of the network looks a lot closer to a security than a digital commodity.
 I remember an ETH whale named "Tetranode" in the "Up only" youtube channel, saying that ETH price will eventually reach 100k$ by 2030 but it seems to me as ludicrous as the million$ price prediction of BTC, I think both coins have yet to win the battle of going to zero, what do you think.

[gib]

We are looking at a likely range of 180K - 240K end of 2025.

All the massive funds, bankers, HNWs and centillionairs are scooping up sats on the sly in the 23-64K range. Once we start approaching ATHs, they will really turn on the PR machine, Media, annual reports, investor newsletters, CNBC,  Bloomberg, etc, and that's when taps just open and a huge volume of investor money flows into a very tight asset.

So, JP Morgan, Blackrock, Goldman Sachs, etc all stand to make a 10x return on Bitcoin, in USD, in 2ish years.

We at getbig all have a unique opportunity to turn all this BS chat into a very very profitable investment. I hope others will join me on this amazing journey ahead. We have the opportunity to front run this. Use your heads, and set yourselves up for the future.