Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?

[Deicide]

Everyone is different, but what is your take?

[webcake]

I don't see why not. Theres a lot of people out there who swear by programs such as 5x5.

As you said though, everyone is different. It may work for some, whilst for others, they may be better suited to more "traditional" hypertrophy style training.

[JasonH]

I suppose it depends on how your muscle fibres are genetically predisposed to that type of training - more white/fast twitch muscle fibres and you will probably be able to get away with using the 5 x 5 training routine and get good results. Guys with a more even proportion of white/red muscle fibres would have to train with higher reps to get results.

[pumpster]

For a lot of people that's too low for optimal development. Lower reps are better suited for strength training plus you have to factor in the heightened risk of injury; alot will find it too harsh on the joints and ligaments then you have some who never get injured on any scheme in which case this is more viable as an alternative tho i don't think it's the best one for development.

5x5 works better IMO if you use a GVT approach with rests shortened to a minute or less, which  will further emphasize the pump/keep the area warm in the face of higher lbs./stress and increase the intensity.

[MisterMagoo]

5x5 would work better IMO if the rests are shortened to under a minute, that will further emphasize the pump/keep the area warm in the face of higher lbs./stress and increase the intensity.

my answer in a nutshell. you can definitely grow on a low rep scheme (i know i have), but if everything's that low and paired with long rest periods, i can't see it working too well for hypertrophy.

[pumpster]

my answer in a nutshell. you can definitely grow on a low rep scheme (i know i have), but if everything's that low and paired with long rest periods, i can't see it working too well for hypertrophy.

Exactly my point about shorter rests helping to counter the extra stress of higher weights.

Also, ask yourself whether 5 reps works as well as reps somewhere in the 6-12 range, stricly in terms of development. It's hard to know after the fact but it's likely the same development or more would happen with moderate reps, without the added joint/ligament stress. As long as the weights are increased over time the development will be at least the same or more with moderate reps, IMO. Lower reps create development but the skew is towards strength over development.

Some just prefer a certain lower or higher rep range, so do what works but keep in mind the heightened risk of injury with lower reps and the increased potential for development in the 6-12 range.

[PANDAEMONIUM]

By and large, I've usually stuck with lower rep schemes (5-6 reps per set) for the compound movements, though on squats I have gone and still do go as high as 10 reps.  When I've done direct arm "isolation" movements, I've tended to go to 12 reps.  If you opt for lower (i.e., no less than 5) rep schemes, I think the key is to go all-out on each set, and as heavy as possible.  This has worked well for me.  BUT, that being said, not everybody gets the same benefits from the same training protocols.  It's best, I think, to experiment with different protocols, keeping in mind that you need to stick with a given protocol for a decent amount of time to see the optimal gains you'd get from it.  This takes time and patience, but it's worth it.

[candidizzle]

yes, but your compromising maximum hypertrophy for more strength ..

[MisterMagoo]

Exactly my point about shorter rests helping to counter the extra stress of higher weights.

Also, ask yourself whether 5 reps works as well as reps somewhere in the 6-12 range, stricly in terms of development. It's hard to know after the fact but it's likely the same development or more would happen with moderate reps, without the added joint/ligament stress. As long as the weights are increased over time the development will be at least the same or more with moderate reps, IMO. Lower reps create development but the skew is towards strength over development.

Some just prefer a certain lower or higher rep range, so do what works but keep in mind the heightened risk of injury with lower reps and the increased potential for development in the 6-12 range.

i want to say that i read somewhere that a combination works best. to the tune of doing a heavy 4-6 rep set and then following up with a 20 rep set.

whether going for strength or hypertrophy, limiting your rep range to one end of the spectrum is a bad idea.

[candidizzle]

i want to say that i read somewhere that a combination works best. to the tune of doing a heavy 4-6 rep set and then following up with a 20 rep set.

whether going for strength or hypertrophy, limiting your rep range to one end of the spectrum is a bad idea.

thats how phil heath trained off season this past year and thats what his trainer contributes his huge gain in size too.

[MisterMagoo]

thats how phil heath trained off season this past year and thats what his trainer contributes his huge gain in size too.

funny thing is, i swear the 225 rep-out training has made a heck of a difference in my appearance. not sure how well my strength did, but i know my chest is at its best! 

[Bluto]

low reps is fine for hypertrophy as long as you up the no of sets. more volume is needed which means more sets! 5x10 rather than 5x5!

rest 60-90 seconds between sets.

[candidizzle]

funny thing is, i swear the 225 rep-out training has made a heck of a difference in my appearance. not sure how well my strength did, but i know my chest is at its best! 

yeah i try variations and high volume seems to work well as long as you also have high intensity/heavy weight in there as well

[Emmortal]

funny thing is, i swear the 225 rep-out training has made a heck of a difference in my appearance. not sure how well my strength did, but i know my chest is at its best! 

That's what I always do with squats.  I usually do a 5x5 scheme with them, unload some weight and rep out 20 reps to finish.  Has worked really well for me personally.

[Cap]

You most certainly can.  Don't do 5x5 forever but I have been using 8-4 reps in my training as of late (with intermittent breaks of higher reps) and my muscles are def denser.  Let us know what results you get in 2-3 months.  If you start to feel achy then throw in a week at higher reps 10-15. 

[thewickedtruth]

I suppose it depends on how your muscle fibres are genetically predisposed to that type of training - more white/fast twitch muscle fibres and you will probably be able to get away with using the 5 x 5 training routine and get good results. Guys with a more even proportion of white/red muscle fibres would have to train with higher reps to get results.

he hit it.. big j is right on the money. Depends on what your dominate muscle fiber makeup is in that area.

[candidizzle]

thats not the way ive learned it...   all muscle fibers are pretty much the same... less weight=less muscle fiber recruitment.. more weight=more muscle fiber recruitment..    not two different sets of muscle fibers altogether... although i could be wrong...

[haider]

thats not the way ive learned it...   all muscle fibers are pretty much the same... less weight=less muscle fiber recruitment.. more weight=more muscle fiber recruitment..    not two different sets of muscle fibers altogether... although i could be wrong...

are you sure you've been reading poliquin's writings? 

[candidizzle]

are you sure you've been reading poliquin's writings? 

that wasnt poliquin that was some soviet dude from the 40's..

[Deicide]

You most certainly can.  Don't do 5x5 forever but I have been using 8-4 reps in my training as of late (with intermittent breaks of higher reps) and my muscles are def denser.  Let us know what results you get in 2-3 months.  If you start to feel achy then throw in a week at higher reps 10-15. 

Whole reason I asked was because of a shoulder injury I got on a low rep scheme (5)...

[jpm101]

With out a doubt 5X5's have put slabs of muscle on many men throughout the years (just caught an article at T-nation.com about it being used by Reg Park and other BB'ers back in the very old day's). Some trainee's have used set's of 2's & 3's on lifting program. PL'ers and Olympic lifters come to mind. Very thick muscled men. Though at times they have used slightly higher reps on assistance exercises, but low, heavy reps are their main protocol. Of course we must remember that low reps do not always mean handling super heavy weight.

You will find that lower reps can actually build up the strength of the joints/ligaments when approached with a logical understanding of working out. Another reason why so many heavy lifters apply a form of periodization when planning out a long range training scheme. 6-8 weeks of heavy 6-8 weeks of light & 6-8 weeks of moderate. Of course this is just a general loose outline, many versions of periodization. Or similar styles of yearly training. And than again, a few lifter ignore it all together. Each one of us has to pick are own poison

It would come down to the amount of rep's done, and rest between, in a total specific workout. With 5X5's there is a total of 25 reps with a rest range of 120 to 180 seconds seconds, nothing more. Compound exercise (usually 3 at the most each workout) are, and should be, the only exercises feature  in a course like this. To the extreme, doing GVT (during lighter phrase) will involve 100 reps with a rest period of 90 to 120 seconds. In each case you want to set a good pace for any workout protocol. good Luck.

[burn2live]

I have grown off sets of 5, though as you say, it's dependent on the person and a few other things

[MisterMagoo]

you know the problem here is the assumption that it's the ONLY rep scheme you do. as though you'd be doing 5x5 on everything from squats to shrugs to calf raises.

low reps are good, high reps are good. mix 'em all up.

[jpm101]

The assumption is correct if 5X5's are the only protocol, when including Squats, DL's, BP, curls and even ab and calf raises. That's 5 reps of 5 sets on every exercise( you want 25 reps the full workout). If the assumption is being that anyone mixes up the rep scheme, with higher reps, on different exercises, on a basic 5X5 protocol, than they are totally wrong. That would be tweaking a very sound and proven workout principle.

Trouble being that too many excellent programs are rearranged to suit those who use them. Misguided Tweaking again. 8X8's and 10X10's given as a good example. And it may be surprising that few people really know how to put into practice a simple SS, Tri set or pre-exhaust  BB'ing workout plan. Not really taking full advantage of what they can offer in way of muscle size. Any system, including 5X5's are meant to be used for a shorter period of 6 to 8 weeks (12 at the very most for some people with special requirements) and than change to something else. Good Luck.

[slaveboy1980]

Everyone is different, but what is your take?

everyone is more alike than different.

and yes hypertrophy can be achieved using 5s. why do you even need to ask?

5s will give you the best of two worlds. heavy tension and lots of metabolic work. if i could only do one number of repetitions it would be 5s.

another aspect is motor unit recruitment which reaches its maximum at 80-85% of 1RM which is about 5-8 reps. so if you use heavier loads than 85% it wont increase motor unit recruitment instead you will train neural processes.

= a repetition range of 5-8 is magic for a bodybuilder. combined with some higher (8-12+) rep work and occasionally some lower rep work (1-4reps)

and finally, there is no need to limit yourself to one repetition range. a bodybuilder should do most work in the 5-8 rep range tho. (can you grow using 3s?..for sure..but you need to increase sets to some extent if you choose to do that. and i wouldnt recommend doing 3s on isolation exercises. and even tho 3s can increase muscle size, i dont see it as 'optimal' for a bodybuilder).