Author Topic: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory (aka The Big Lie)  (Read 225156 times)

polychronopolous

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #350 on: February 16, 2018, 03:38:00 PM »
No doubt a well known Trump subversive. 

 :)

Straw Man

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #351 on: February 16, 2018, 03:38:13 PM »
As far as I can tell there hasn’t been any arrests.

13 Russians indicted to a conspiracy to engage in political speech without disclosing themselves as foreign agents.

One American has plead guilty for aiding them.

of course there haven't been any arrests

do you think they hung around to get arrested

They're not dumb like the Trumptards they duped into helping them

Quote
Though the Russians are unlikely to be immediately arrested, they are now wanted by the United States government, which will make it hard for them to travel or do business internationally.

Their plans included “evacuation scenarios” — presumably in case they were discovered


Yamcha

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #352 on: February 18, 2018, 08:03:43 AM »
bout damn time; still no hope of shit getting accomplished though
a

Yamcha

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #353 on: February 18, 2018, 08:32:28 AM »


They're not dumb like the Trumptards they duped into helping them


a

Yamcha

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #354 on: February 19, 2018, 04:16:15 AM »
When Twitter Bots become Pearl Harbor 2.0  :o
a

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #355 on: February 19, 2018, 02:03:07 PM »
So all 13 of these Russians are in Russia?  We are spending millions of taxpayer dollars to prosecute people who will never see the inside of an American prison even if convicted?  That is nuts. 

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #356 on: February 19, 2018, 02:41:32 PM »
Mueller indictments still miss the mark on Trump-Russia collusion
BY JONATHAN TURLEY, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 02/17/18

Lewis Carroll once wrote in praise of adjectives, saying that “adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs.” That is certainly true with the latest indictments by special counsel Robert Mueller of 13 Russians for interfering with the 2016 presidential election. For the White House, the entire report comes down to a single adjective. Let’s see if you can spot it: The Russian defendants “communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign.”

Despite a 37-page indictment with a long narrative on a coordinated Russian campaign of interference, the most newsworthy fact comes from the carefully placed adjective “unwitting.” It confirms that the special counsel has found no knowing coordination or collusion between these hackers and Trump officials. The indictment names 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities in alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election. It describes a coordinated effort by Russians, including the shadowy Internet Research Agency, to wage “information warfare” against the United States.

The charges themselves are not particularly novel or exotic. They involve identity fraud, wire fraud and other conventional charges. However, the context is anything but conventional. This is the largest indictment of a foreign effort to interfere with our elections, and the clear import is that the hand of the Russian government was behind this effort. Moreover, it is clear that the Russians were acting to help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton.

While the indictment is historic, it is hardly a surprise. Few people were questioning the Russian interference with and hacking of the election. Both Democratic and Republican leaders were in agreement on this fact, as were all of the administration’s top intelligence figures. The one hold-out seemed to be the president himself. He routinely referred to the “fake news” of the Russian investigation.

While Trump seemed to be focusing on the specific allegations of collusion by his campaign, he will now have a chance to make that distinction more clearly and concretely. This indictment is incredibly detailed and damning as to the effort of the Russians to interfere in the election and then hide their tracks once the FBI went into the field looking for the hackers.

That brings us back to “unwitting.” Not only did the indictment clearly say that no one in the Trump campaign was wittingly or knowingly involved with the Russians, it explains how the Russians used fake names and groups to hide their real identities. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein gave a press conference and drove home that point, stating that there was no evidence of any knowing involvement by the Trump campaign, as well as no evidence that this effort impacted the election. Indeed, Rosenstein stated that there is “no allegation in this indictment that any American had any knowledge” of the Russian effort.

For over a year, some of us have been questioning the weekly “bombshells” announced on cable programs of criminal Russian collusion. Indeed, for months I asked for someone to point to a crime of collusion in the criminal code or the criminal evidence to support a criminal indictment if such a related charge is made. With each week, experts have given breathless accounts of the circle of collusion tightening on the Trump campaign.

Now, the special counsel and the deputy attorney general are saying that there is no evidence of knowing interaction of campaign staff with Russians interfering with the election. The paucity of such evidence follows a year of intensive investigation and the much heralded plea bargains with former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and campaign adviser George Papadopoulos and the expected plea with former campaign official Rick Gates. There is still no evidence of anyone “wittingly” or knowingly colluding with these Russians. Moreover, the indictment says that the Russian efforts began in 2014, long before the candidacy of Trump.

None of that has stopped the spin. CNN political director David Chalian insisted that nothing in the indictment actually says that the Trump campaign did nothing wrong. But prosecutors generally do not use indictments to affirmatively exonerate organizations. They focus on the matter under investigation. On the same panel, CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero speculated that the Mueller team added this language “to give it political cover” to protect his investigation and allow it to continue without interference from the White House. There is also the slight possibility that this is an indictment which stated the facts required to be truthful to the court and that there is no evidence of collusion.

Of course, the absence of collusion would not end the Mueller investigation, and reports indicate the collusion probe is ongoing. Mueller has already charged various figures with collateral crimes. Moreover, even if there is no case for collusion, there could still be a case of obstruction. The irony would be hard to miss. For months, many of us have been baffled by the president’s obsession and personal actions in relation to the Russian investigation. The evidence against Trump or his campaign has remained entirely speculative and thin. Yet, he has repeatedly acted in ways that have fueled allegations of obstruction, even though the underlying case is manifestly weak.

If Mueller ultimately finds no collusion, it could not only clear Trump but could even lead him to consider the use of his pardon power for individuals like Flynn. It is doubtful that Flynn’s indictment would have been handed down but for the appointment of the special counsel. Again, the irony is crushing. Before Trump fired James Comey as FBI director, his investigators reportedly decided that Flynn did not intentionally lie to them about his meeting with the Russians. Once Trump fired Comey, Flynn was a target of opportunity for the special prosecutors.

This all brings us back to “unwitting.” When this history is written, that adjective could well stand out as the turning point in the Russian investigation. The remaining question could be whether Trump wittingly obstructed an investigation into unwitting contacts with the Russians.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can follow him on Twitter @JonathanTurley.

http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/374312-mueller-indictments-still-miss-the-mark-on-trump-russia-collusion

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #357 on: February 19, 2018, 05:38:24 PM »
Older story, but relevant today to the impact (or lack thereof) of Russia on the outcome of the 2016 election.

Facebook: Clinton, Trump campaigns spent a combined $81M on ads
BY HARPER NEIDIG - 11/01/17

Facebook revealed on Wednesday that the campaigns of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump spent a combined $81 million on election ads during last year's presidential race.

The news came during a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing focused on Russia's use of social media platforms to try to sway the outcome of the election.

Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) asked Facebook's general counsel, Colin Stretch, about the campaigns' spending figures to contrast them with the amount spent on political ads by a Russian "troll farm."

Stretch said that the fake Russian accounts had spent about $46,000 on ads in the run-up to the election.

The campaigns' expenditures on Facebook have not been available in public filings because the ad purchases are often made through intermediaries.

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358206-facebook-clinton-trump-campaigns-spent-a-combined-81m-on-ads

chaos

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #358 on: February 19, 2018, 05:51:15 PM »
13 Russians impacted the US Presidential election from Russia, but millions of illegal aliens actually casting votes had no impact?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Skeletor

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #359 on: February 20, 2018, 03:50:42 AM »
Michael Moore participated in anti-Trump rally allegedly organized by Russians

Michael Moore, the polemical filmmaker who has long accused President Trump of colluding with Russians, posted videos and pictures of himself participating in a protest in Manhattan that was allegedly organized by Russians in November 2016.

Prosecutors said Friday that the Russians indicted for meddling in the presidential campaign were also behind anti-Trump rallies that occured after the election.

The government alleged in an indictment signed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller that the defendants organized a Nov. 12 “Trump is NOT my President” rally in New York. Their “strategic goal” was to “sow discord in the U.S. political system,” the indictment said.

On Nov. 12, Moore tweeted: "At today's Trump Tower protest. He wouldn't come down."

He attached a picture of himself posing with a large number of protesters.

Moore also posted a lengthy video on Facebook Nov. 12, in which he joined the protest and debated voters at Trump Tower.

Moore has repeatedly claimed that President Trump inappropriately colluded with Russians.

Last year, Moore wrote on Facebook: "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on: TRUMP COLLUDING WITH THE RUSSIANS TO THROW THE ELECTION TO HIM."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/michael-moore-participated-in-anti-trump-rally-allegedly-organized-by-russians.html

Kazan

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #360 on: February 20, 2018, 07:08:59 AM »
13 Russians impacted the US Presidential election from Russia, but millions of illegal aliens actually casting votes had no impact?

Well if the illegals voted for Trump then we would have something  :D
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #361 on: February 20, 2018, 01:00:43 PM »
Michael Moore participated in anti-Trump rally allegedly organized by Russians

Michael Moore, the polemical filmmaker who has long accused President Trump of colluding with Russians, posted videos and pictures of himself participating in a protest in Manhattan that was allegedly organized by Russians in November 2016.

Prosecutors said Friday that the Russians indicted for meddling in the presidential campaign were also behind anti-Trump rallies that occured after the election.

The government alleged in an indictment signed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller that the defendants organized a Nov. 12 “Trump is NOT my President” rally in New York. Their “strategic goal” was to “sow discord in the U.S. political system,” the indictment said.

On Nov. 12, Moore tweeted: "At today's Trump Tower protest. He wouldn't come down."

He attached a picture of himself posing with a large number of protesters.

Moore also posted a lengthy video on Facebook Nov. 12, in which he joined the protest and debated voters at Trump Tower.

Moore has repeatedly claimed that President Trump inappropriately colluded with Russians.

Last year, Moore wrote on Facebook: "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on: TRUMP COLLUDING WITH THE RUSSIANS TO THROW THE ELECTION TO HIM."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/michael-moore-participated-in-anti-trump-rally-allegedly-organized-by-russians.html

Funny.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #362 on: February 20, 2018, 01:19:52 PM »
Another process crime having nothing to with the Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory. 

Mueller’s Move on Ex-Skadden Lawyer Puts Heat on Manafort, Gates
By David Voreacos  and Stephanie Baker
February 20, 2018

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-20/skadden-arps-lawyer-is-charged-with-role-in-u-s-russia-probe

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #363 on: February 20, 2018, 01:31:07 PM »
So all 13 of these Russians are in Russia?  We are spending millions of taxpayer dollars to prosecute people who will never see the inside of an American prison even if convicted?  That is nuts. 

The thirteen Russians most likely will not be prosecuted in the U.S.. They've been indicted, in order to prosecute them they must first be arrested and deported to the U.S. to stand trial. The only chance of this happening is if anyone of them should travel to a country that has an extradition treaty/agreement with the U.S. This being the case, taxpayer dollars would not be spent to prosecute them, although our tax dollars fund the FBI and the Mueller investigation which has cost somewhere between $5 and $7 million dollars thus far. The Whitewater investigation cost $70-80 mil. and went on for four and a half years. Watergate took two years and cost $6.3 million in 1974.

  

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #364 on: February 20, 2018, 01:42:58 PM »
The thirteen Russians most likely will not be prosecuted in the U.S.. They've been indicted, in order to prosecute them they must first be arrested and deported to the U.S. to stand trial. The only chance of this happening is if anyone of them should travel to a country that has an extradition treaty/agreement with the U.S. This being the case, taxpayer dollars would not be spent to prosecute them, although our tax dollars fund the FBI and the Mueller investigation which has cost somewhere between $5 and $7 million dollars thus far. The Whitewater investigation cost $70-80 mil. and went on for four and a half years. Watergate took two years and cost $6.3 million in 1974.

  

Wait.  They were indicted but will not be prosecuted? 

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #365 on: February 20, 2018, 01:59:25 PM »
13 Russians impacted the US Presidential election from Russia, but millions of illegal aliens actually casting votes had no impact?

Although it has been stated by several conservative articles that 3 million illegal aliens voted in the 2016 general election, there is no sure way to know this. The articles point back to tweets from Gregg Phillips, who has worked for the Republican Party and has a voter fraud reporting app. But Phillips will not provide any evidence to support his claim, which happens to be undermined by publicly available information. The end result is this claim is unproven and will probably never be proven.

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #366 on: February 20, 2018, 02:01:23 PM »
Wait.  They were indicted but will not be prosecuted? 

Yup. Most likely they will not.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #367 on: February 20, 2018, 02:04:16 PM »
Yup. Most likely they will not.

What's the point of indicting them if they will not be prosecuted? 

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #368 on: February 20, 2018, 02:52:42 PM »
What's the point of indicting them if they will not be prosecuted? 

It supposedly sends a message to foreign powers looking to interfere in our election process by committing acts of conspiracy. It makes me think of registering your phone number on the government 'do not call' list and expecting spammers who routinely break the law to stop calling you. I suspect it also helps to prove a conspiracy which requires two entities. In order to conspire you usually have to have someone to conspire with.

How Trump imagines this exonerates him, is difficult to comprehend.     

mazrim

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #369 on: February 20, 2018, 03:12:12 PM »
How Trump imagines this exonerates him, is difficult to comprehend.     
lol, I bet it is.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #370 on: February 20, 2018, 03:18:58 PM »
It supposedly sends a message to foreign powers looking to interfere in our election process by committing acts of conspiracy. It makes me think of registering your phone number on the government 'do not call' list and expecting spammers who routinely break the law to stop calling you. I suspect it also helps to prove a conspiracy which requires two entities. In order to conspire you usually have to have someone to conspire with.

How Trump imagines this exonerates him, is difficult to comprehend.     

Or perhaps it's to justify the millions of taxpayer dollars being spent running down rabbit holes; an investigation in search of a crime. 

Of course Trump thinks this exonerates him.  It does.  They indicted a bunch of people who will never be prosecuted, who made contact with unwitting Americans, while spending $46k on fake facebook ads, organizing rallies for and against Trump, supporting Bernie, supporting Jill Stein, and opposing Hillary Clinton.   

This conspiracy theory gets dumber by the day. 

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #371 on: February 20, 2018, 03:53:26 PM »
Or perhaps it's to justify the millions of taxpayer dollars being spent running down rabbit holes; an investigation in search of a crime. 

Of course Trump thinks this exonerates him.  It does.  They indicted a bunch of people who will never be prosecuted, who made contact with unwitting Americans, while spending $46k on fake facebook ads, organizing rallies for and against Trump, supporting Bernie, supporting Jill Stein, and opposing Hillary Clinton.   

This conspiracy theory gets dumber by the day. 


You make some valid points. Whether or not Trump is exonerated or not, time will tell. My guess is if there was collusion with the Russians, Trump managed to keep his hands off it. However his cohorts including family members could be complicit. Whether or not this is the case remains to be seen as those cronies indicted win or lose in court. Keep in mind, there have already been guilty pleas.   

Dos Equis

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #372 on: February 20, 2018, 03:58:36 PM »
You make some valid points. Whether or not Trump is exonerated or not, time will tell. My guess is if there was collusion with the Russians, Trump managed to keep his hands off it. However his cohorts including family members could be complicit. Whether or not this is the case remains to be seen as those cronies indicted win or lose in court. Keep in mind, there have already been guilty pleas.   

Guilty pleas having nothing to do with this conspiracy theory, involving process crimes and alleged crimes that occurred years before the election having nothing to do with Trump.  This entire ordeal is going to leave an enormous black eye on the people pushing this theory.

I'm not a big fan of Trump's twitter use, but one of his tweets was spot on:  Russia intended to create chaos in our election, and they did. 

Did you know Russia is behind the equally loony faked moon landing conspiracy?  I learned that recently.  How embarrassing that so many people get suckered by these things. 

Primemuscle

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #373 on: February 20, 2018, 04:28:10 PM »
Guilty pleas having nothing to do with this conspiracy theory, involving process crimes and alleged crimes that occurred years before the election having nothing to do with Trump.  This entire ordeal is going to leave an enormous black eye on the people pushing this theory.

I'm not a big fan of Trump's twitter use, but one of his tweets was spot on:  Russia intended to create chaos in our election, and they did.  

Did you know Russia is behind the equally loony faked moon landing conspiracy?  I learned that recently.  How embarrassing that so many people get suckered by these things.  

Perhaps the pleas have nothing to do with possible conspiracy or collusion. This Washington Post Article suggests to me that all this is much more complicated than it might seem on the surface, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/manafort-and-former-business-partner-asked-to-surrender-in-connection-with-special-counsel-probe/2017/10/30/6fe051f0-bd67-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.aa94db4c4bf5.

What has happened and what will happen in the months or years ahead, we can only speculate about. My guess is that even the so called 'insiders' don't know the answers. Sometimes I believe we get caught up in our human nature desire to be right, which fuels our discussions. It is good that we have opinions and it is also good to be flexible about them because in the end opinions change very little.

You are right that the Trump twitter you cited is right on. It would be good if he could tweet more twitters that don't appear to be a rant. Russia not only created election chaos, they are still in the mix, IMO
 

Yamcha

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Re: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #374 on: February 20, 2018, 04:43:34 PM »
Perhaps the pleas have nothing to do with possible conspiracy or collusion. This Washington Post Article suggests to me that all this is much more complicated than it might seem on the surface, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/manafort-and-former-business-partner-asked-to-surrender-in-connection-with-special-counsel-probe/2017/10/30/6fe051f0-bd67-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.aa94db4c4bf5.

What has happened and what will happen in the months or years ahead, we can only speculate about. My guess is that even the so called 'insiders' don't know the answers. Sometimes I believe we get caught up in our human nature desire to be right, which fuels our discussions. It is good that we have opinions and it is also good to be flexible about them because in the end opinions change very little.

You are right that the Trump twitter you cited is right on. It would be good if he could tweet more twitters that don't appear to be a rant. Russia not only created election chaos, they are still in the mix, IMO
 

how do you feel about the media using blatant propaganda to sell a political narrative?

a