Author Topic: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq  (Read 17437 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2007, 06:05:35 PM »
same ol same ol...  all backed up in the frontline doc...

CIA Intelligence Refutes Bush's War Rhetoric 
by David Corn
 
The Washington Post front-page headline read, "Analysts Discount Attack by Iraq." The New York Times said, "CIA Warns That a US Attack May Ignite Terror." But these newspapers could have reasonably announced, "CIA Information Indicates Bush Misleads Public on Threat from Iraq."

In the past week, President Bush has been on a tear; in speech after speech (many of them on the campaign trail), he has been excoriating Saddam Hussein as a direct threat to Americans. At a political fundraiser in New Hampshire on October 5, he called Hussein "a man who hates so much he's willing to kill his own people, much less Americans." And Bush noted, "We must do everything we can to disarm this man before he hurts a single American." During a primetime speech in Cincinnati two days later, Bush characterized Saddam as a "threat...that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America." He pronounced the Iraqi dictator a "significant" danger to America and said, "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." He remarked, "we're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using" unmanned aerial vehicles "for missions targeting the United States." And he proclaimed, "America must not ignore the threat gathering against us." At an October 8 campaign rally in Tennessee, Bush remarked, "I've got a problem, obviously, with Mr. Saddam Hussein, and so do you, and that is he poses a threat. He poses a threat to America."

The message is, Saddam is coming, Saddam is coming, and the United States better take the sucker out before he strikes America--meaning, you. But Bush has a problem: the CIA doesn't back him up on this. In fact, it says the opposite.

At a hearing held by the House and Senate intelligence committees on October 8, Senator Bob Graham, the chairman of the Senate panel, read from a letter sent to him by CIA chief George Tenet. In that note, Tenet reported the CIA had concluded that "Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or CBW [chemical and biological weapons] against the United States." The CIA, according to Tenet, also had determined, "Should Saddam conclude that a US-led attack could no longer be deterred, he probably would become much less constrained in adopting terrorist actions." And the Agency found, "Saddam might decide that the extreme step of assisting Islamist terrorists in conducting a WMD [weapons of mass destruction] attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him."

The bottom-line: Saddam is not likely in the near future to hit the United States or share his weapons with al Qaeda or other anti-American terrorists, unless the United States assaults Iraq. This is hardly the picture the President is sharing with the American public.

Tenet's letter also referred to an exchange at an October 2 secret hearing in which Senator Carl Levin, a Democrat, asked a senior intelligence official, "If [Saddam] didn't feel threatened...is it likely that he would initiate an attack using a weapon of mass destruction?" The intelligence official replied, "My judgment would be that the probability of him initiating an attack--let me put a time frame on it--in the foreseeable future, given the conditions we understand now, the likelihood I think would be low."

In all of Bush's dash-to-war rhetoric, where does he refer to this "low" likelihood? Well, he doesn't. And it was telling that this information had to be squeezed out of the CIA. On October 6, the Agency released a white paper on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, which maintained that Saddam possessed certain chemical and biological weapons but "probably would not be able to make a [nuclear] weapon until the last half of the decade," unless he could acquire sufficient weapons-grade fissile material from abroad. But this unclassified version of a classified CIA National Intelligence Estimate left out the original's findings on Saddam's views on the use of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The CIA, it seems, was trying to keep from the public crucial information: its judgment of what Saddam might do with his arsenal. But members of the intelligence committee had been able to peruse the full NIE, and Graham subsequently leaned on Tenet to declassify this material.

Tenet, good soldier that he is, tried to downplay the significance of the disclosure. In a statement, he said, "there is no inconsistency between our view of Saddam's growing threat and the view as expressed by the President in his [Cincinnati] speech. Although we think the chances of Saddam initiating a WMD attack at this moment are low--in part because it would constitute an admission that he possesses WMD--there is no question that the likelihood of Saddam using WMD against the United States or our allies in the region for blackmail, deterrence, or otherwise grows as his arsenal continues to build."

Nice try. While Bush has raised the specter of a WMD-wielding Saddam bullying his neighbors and Israel, that threat is indeed different from the threat of an Iraqi strike against the United States. Bush is not arguing the nation must prepare for war now--that is, Congress must immediately grant him the power to launch a unilateral and preemptive attack as he sees fit--because sometime in the future Saddam can intimidate Jordan by threatening the use of chemical weapons. Review those quotes above. He is asserting Saddam must be prevented from striking at the United States--an action the CIA deems not probable "in the foreseeable future."

This information from the CIA ought to prompt members of Congress--who are placing aside other matters to debate (so to speak) legislation that would authorize Bush to invade Iraq--to shout, "Time out!" But it's unlikely this piece of awkward news will derail the rush to approve a use-of-force resolution. Besides, the Bush administration, in case it is inconvenienced by this disclosure, is beefing up another of its reasons for war: the al Qaeda-Iraq connection.

In that same letter, Tenet declassified "points for unclassified discussions" on the possible al Qaeda-Saddam link. One point is, "We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade." Another is, "Credible information indicates that Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression." A third is, "We have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad." And a fourth point is, "We have credible reporting that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs."

A link between al Qaeda and Saddam's regime would indeed be troubling--even frightening--and require a response. But the nature of the response should depend on the nature of the connection. Tenet's "points" do not present enough information on which to render a judgment. When did these "senior level contacts" occur and what did they concern? When were the discussions regarding safe havens and reciprocal nonaggression? If all this happened ten years ago and led to no agreements or actions, that would not be reason for attacking Iraq. And what does it mean that al Qaeda members are in Iraq? Al Qaeda has a presence in 60 countries, including the United States. If the CIA knows al Qaeda leaders "sought contacts in Iraq" in order to obtain weapons of mass destruction--and can share that tidbit with the public--can it say whether it knows when this transpired and whether the al Qaeda members succeeded in establishing these contacts? If so, who were their Iraqi contacts? Officials in Saddam's government? As for the training Iraq provided to al Qaeda members, it would be important to understand when that occurred, who supplied the training, and how extensive it was. Given the track record of his CIA, it is difficult not to suspect Tenet was being selective in his release of these "points."

Recently, Representative Jim McDermott, a Seattle Democrat, was lambasted when he commented, while in Baghdad, that it was conceivable Bush would "mislead" the public in his pursuit of Saddam. Pundits and Republicans howled, and some Democrats complained McDermott had tainted their party. Any campaign consultant could have told McDermott it was politically unwise to utter such an inflammatory statement while in Iraq, the land of the enemy. But McDermott's point--that Bush is willing to stretch the truth to obtain authority to launch a war--has been confirmed. By the CIA.
 

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2007, 06:05:55 PM »
Ah those Pentagon liars.  I guess they fooled all the following Democrats and Republicans before Bush took office:

"Dear Mr. President: ... We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraq sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."  
 
Sincerely,  
 
Carl Levin, Joe Lieberman, Frank R. Lautenberg, Dick Lugar, Kit Bond, Jon Kyl, Chris Dodd, John McCain, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Alfonse D'Amato, Bob Kerrey, Pete V. Domenici, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Mikulski, Thomas Daschle, John Breaux, Tim Johnson, Daniel K. Inouye, Arlen Specter, James Inhofe, Strom Thurmond, Mary L. Landrieu, Wendell Ford, John Kerry, Chuck Grassley, Jesse Helms, Rick Santorum.  
 
Letter to President Clinton
Signed by Senators Tom Daschle, John Kerry and others
October 9, 1998
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Letters,%20reports%20and%20statements/levin-10-9-98.html  

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2007, 06:10:21 PM »
again and again and again and again... But BEACH would have me listen to politicians justifying their votes over facts and testimony from inside sources.


ANOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ex-CIA official: WMD evidence ignored

'60 Minutes' report: White House disregarded good intelligence

Sunday, April 23, 2006; Posted: 10:04 p.m. EDT (02:04 GMT)


Manage Alerts | What Is This? (CNN) -- A retired CIA official has accused the Bush administration of ignoring intelligence indicating that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and no active nuclear program before the United States-led coalition invaded it, CBS News said Sunday.

Tyler Drumheller, the former highest-ranking CIA officer in Europe, told "60 Minutes" that the administration "chose to ignore" good intelligence, the network said in a posting on its Web site.

Drumheller said that, before the U.S.-led attack on Iraq in 2003, the White House "ignored crucial information" from Iraq's foreign minister, Naji Sabri, that indicated Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.

Drumheller said that, when then-CIA Director George Tenet told President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and other high-ranking officials that Sabri was providing information, his comments were met with excitement that proved short-lived.

"[The source] told us that there were no active weapons of mass destruction programs," Drumheller is quoted as saying. "The [White House] group that was dealing with preparation for the Iraq war came back and said they were no longer interested. And we said 'Well, what about the intel?' And they said 'Well, this isn't about intel anymore. This is about regime change.' "

Drumheller said the administration officials wanted no more information from Sabri because: "The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy."

CBS said the White House declined to respond to the charge and that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said Sabri was just one source and therefore not reliable.

But Drumheller said it was not unusual for the administration to rely on single-source stories when those stories confirmed what the White House wanted to hear.

He cited a report the CIA received in late 2001 that alleged Iraq had bought 500 tons of uranium-containing compounds from Africa.

"They certainly took information that came from single sources on the yellowcake story and on several other stories with no corroboration at all," he said.

Bush included the reference, which was attributed to the British and turned out to be false, in his 2003 State of the Union Address.

The CIA in 2002 had sent former ambassador Joseph Wilson to guy to investigate the claims, and he went public in July 2003 criticizing the Bush administration's case for going to war in Iraq. The subsequent publication of his wife's identity as a CIA employee spawned an investigation that resulted in the indictment of Cheney's chief of staff and is still ongoing. (Full story)

"It just sticks in my craw every time I hear them say it's an intelligence failure," Drumheller told CBS' Ed Bradley. "This was a policy failure. I think, over time, people will look back on this and see this is going to be one of the great, I think, policy mistakes of all time."

The White House earlier this month reacted angrily to a report that Bush had cited trailers suspected as biological weapons labs as proof of the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after intelligence officials knew that the trailers were not part of a WMD program. (Full story)

"I cannot count how many times the president has said the intelligence was wrong," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.

He added that the administration has implemented reforms to make sure that "the executive branch and the Congress have the best possible intelligence as they move forward to deal with the threats that face this country and face this world."

Another retired CIA official in February said the Bush administration disregarded the expertise of the intelligence community, politicized the intelligence process and used unrepresentative data in making the case for war.

In an article published in the journal Foreign Affairs, Paul R. Pillar, the CIA's national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, called the relationship between U.S. intelligence and policymaking "broken." (Full story)

In November 2005, CNN obtained a 2003 CIA report that raised doubts about a claim that al Qaeda sent operatives to Iraq to acquire chemical and biological weapons -- assertions that were repeated later by then-Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations in making the case for the invasion of Iraq. (Full story)

A day after that report surfaced, Bush gave a speech on Veteran's Day in which he accused critics of the Iraq war of distorting the events that led to the U.S. invasion.

Bush said that "intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein" and that a Senate Intelligence Committee report issued in July 2004 "found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments." (Full story)

The Silberman-Robb commission, which was appointed by Bush, also found no evidence that political pressure skewed the intelligence. But neither that commission nor the Senate panel addressed how the administration made its case for war.

Senate Democrats have pressured the Intelligence Committee to complete a second phase of its report that would focus on how the prewar intelligence was used by the administration, rather than how it was produced.


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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2007, 06:11:04 PM »
gentlemen...

the warhawks penetrate both parties.  HTH.  To defend or attack either party is pointless.

Dos Equis

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2007, 06:12:22 PM »
"Dear Mr. President: 
 
The events of September 11 have highlighted the vulnerability of the United States to determined terrorists. As we work to clean up Afghanistan and destroy al Qaeda, it is imperative that we plan to eliminate the threat from Iraq. 
 
This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. 
 
The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently contained. For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. We have no doubt that these deadly weapons are intended for use against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather than later. 
 
Mr. President, all indications are that in the interest of our own national security, Saddam Hussein must be removed from power." 
 
Sincerely, 
 
      Congressman Harold Ford (Democrat, Tennessee)
      Senator Bob Graham (Democrat, Florida)
      Congressman Tom Lantos (Democrat, California)
      Senator Joseph Lieberman (Democrat, Connecticut)
 
      Senator Sam Brownback (Republican, Kansas)
      Senator Jesse Helms (Republican, North Carolina)
      Congressman Henry Hyde (Republican, Illinois)
      Senator Trent Lott (Republican, Mississippi)
      Senator John McCain (Republican, Arizona)
      Senator Richard Shelby (Republican, Alabama)
 
Letter to President Bush
December 5, 2001
http://www.house.gov/ford/12_06_01a.htm

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2007, 06:17:31 PM »
gentlemen...

the warhawks penetrate both parties.  HTH.  To defend or attack either party is pointless.
I'm not that much... I have long long long long been very critical of dems for their pro-war blank check they gave bush... Long time... This just happens to be the only point Beach feels he has to use against me...  BUT, I will say that the Republicans quite obviously took it to a higher level than dems.  One thing for sure, the neocons are 100% to blame... There is no arguing that.  Find me a neocon that is a dem.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2007, 06:26:40 PM »
Beach, what in the heck is that last post of yours supposed to prove?  I mean really... What?

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #82 on: January 04, 2007, 06:34:01 PM »
Beach, what in the heck is that last post of yours supposed to prove?  I mean really... What?

Why are you asking me that question Berserker?  I mean, you're just going to frustrated by my response.   :)  But since you asked . . . It proves members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, believed Saddam was a threat and had to be removed from power before the war.  Or to put it in their words, "The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently contained. For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. We have no doubt that these deadly weapons are intended for use against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather than later."   

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2007, 06:37:01 PM »
neocons are some greedy, deceptive fvckers.

can anyone, even you beach, deny that?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2007, 06:44:40 PM »
Why are you asking me that question Berserker?  I mean, you're just going to frustrated by my response.   :)  But since you asked . . . It proves members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, believed Saddam was a threat and had to be removed from power before the war.  Or to put it in their words, "The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently contained. For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. We have no doubt that these deadly weapons are intended for use against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather than later."   
Hilarious that it doesn't register with you that some of these members of congress you're quoting for proof ::) that saddam was a threat got the notion from the false report built with false intell.  Absolutely hilarious... Even more funny that you're going to politicians to make your case and I'm going to the CIA, weapons inspectors and revealed official documents and serious investigative reports like Frontline to make my case... Politicians given false intell vs. Facts... hmmm... I'm not upset beach, I'm laughing...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2007, 06:46:28 PM »
neocons are some greedy, deceptive fvckers.

can anyone, even you beach, deny that?
If I remember right, Beach didn't know what a neocon was until about a month ago.  He thought it was a derogatory liberal term for conservatives.

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2007, 06:48:35 PM »
If I remember right, Beach didn't know what a neocon was until about a month ago.  He thought it was a derogatory liberal term for conservatives.

Correct.  I asked Ozmo what his definition was and he said extreme conservative views.  I suspect many others use "necon" in this fashion.   

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2007, 06:57:22 PM »
Correct.  I asked Ozmo what his definition was and he said extreme conservative views.  I suspect many others use "necon" in this fashion.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

Essentially, Neocons believe in US imperialism.  As much as the world we can control, the better.  Utilitarian use of human, monetary, and earth resources is their way to go. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Democrats Said About The War In Iraq
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2007, 07:10:50 PM »
Correct.  I asked Ozmo what his definition was and he said extreme conservative views.  I suspect many others use "necon" in this fashion.   
no... Beach... no... Infact many on far right of conservatism oppose the neoconservatives...  example: Pat Buccannan. http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/History_of_Neoconservativism 

Now the term has become somewhat misused at times and missapplied but that is actually partly do to the neocons themselves... With huge failures looming, they didn't much like the label identifying them with these failures.  So you have guys like Kristol running from a once embraced term.  At one point they tried, Kristol and others, to associate the term with anti-semitism...  Kristol said it was codeword by liberals for Jew ::) That was an attempt to destroy the term and save some credibility.

Quote
[edit] Distinctions from other conservatives
Most people currently described as "neoconservatives" are members of the Republican Party, but while neoconservatives have generally been in electoral alignment with other conservatives, have served in the same Presidential Administrations, and have often ignored intra-conservative ideological differences in alliance against those to their left, there are notable differences between neoconservative and traditional or "paleoconservative" views. In particular, neoconservatives disagree with the nativist, protectionist, and isolationist strain of American conservatism once exemplified by the ex-Republican "paleoconservative" Pat Buchanan, and the traditional "pragmatic" approach to foreign policy often associated with Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, which emphasized pragmatic accommodation with dictators; peace through negotiations, diplomacy, and arms control; détente and containment — rather than rollback — of the Soviet Union; and the initiation of the process that led to ties between the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the United States.

Donald and Frederick Kagan's book While America Sleeps argues, at book length, an analogy between the post-cold war United States and Britain's post-World War I reduction in its military and avoidance of confrontation with other major powers.

As compared with traditional conservatism and libertarianism, which sometimes exhibit an isolationist strain, neoconservatism is characterized by an increased emphasis on defense capability, a willingness to challenge regimes deemed hostile to the values and interests of the United States, pressing for free-market policies abroad, and promoting democracy and freedom. Neoconservatives are strong believers in democratic peace theory.