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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Lugar on July 06, 2006, 06:22:40 AM
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Just thought we could get some insight on what people do to finagle their training, rest and most importantly, dietarty habits to GROW...clean, with as much new mass as possible. So many cutting threads, I thought this might shed some light on how the "pros" do it....thoughts?
I am 6'2, 165lb and about 8%....very anal about eating 100% clean, so I almost feel like I am burning the candle at both ends........
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I think and increase of complex carbs is the most important thing a person can do to get growing again.
Focus on: Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Potatos, and Yams.
I think the best protein sources are: Salmon, Ckicken, and Eggs. I do eat beef once a week though.
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Just thought we could get some insight on what people do to finagle their training, rest and most importantly, dietarty habits to GROW...clean, with as much new mass as possible. So many cutting threads, I thought this might shed some light on how the "pros" do it....thoughts?
I am 6'2, 165lb and about 8%....very anal about eating 100% clean, so I almost feel like I am burning the candle at both ends........
Perhaps it's time for you to eat "dirty". When I weighed 165 lbs, I felt like a twig and I'm only 5'9". Here is what I posted from what I posted in a thread from the Natural Bodybuilding Forum, entitled "I assume that most are HARD-GAINERS":
For all the so-called Hardgainers out there, I suggest you go back to the archives of MuscleMag International and look up some of Greg Zulak's articles on gaining size. My personal favorite is issue 145, his article on "Alternates".
It has a section on training and diet. Both will be of HUGE help to "hardgainers", no need for "Heavy Duty" or "H.I.T." In fact, Alternates involves training antagonistic body parts, with a rest period of 1-2 minutes between sets (i.e. chest and back, biceps and triceps, quads and hamstrings). I don't go to failure; to me, it's not necessary.
When it comes to calories, the basis is simple: it's all about gradually ingesting more calories in order to gain size. Remember John Parillo, the guy who had his clients consuming up to 10,000 calories per day.
Many critics, including Masters National champion, Jeff Everson and Ms. International, Tonya Knight, blasted Parillo for his dietary recommendations. But, it got many a "hardgainer" to pack on the pounds and achieve size and mass they never thought possible.
Go for six meals a day: Eat three of them; drink three of them. And, gradually bump up the calories. If 4000 calories don't get it done, go up to 4500; if that fails; go to 5000.....
The good thing about being an ectomorph, especially if you're young, is that you can ingest the calorie-dense foods needed for mass (whole eggs, beef, whole milk, etc.). Add three servings of a quality weight-gainer to the equation and you're in business. When I was doing the 6500-calories-per-day thing, half of those calories came from weight gainer (Mega Mass 2000, at that time)......
Above all, you have to be patient. As Zulak says, if you put on 30 lbs. in six months to a year, half of that might be fat. But, you'll be bigger and stronger, overall, and more filled out. Nobody puts on pure muscle all of the time. That doesn't mean turn yourself into a suckling pig, but don't be afraid of a little bodyfat....
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I think and increase of complex carbs is the most important thing a person can do to get growing again.
Focus on: Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Potatos, and Yams.
I think the best protein sources are: Salmon, Ckicken, and Eggs. I do eat beef once a week though.
Very nice suggestion.......and very true. I have seen no real benefit of consuming 200-250g of protein versus 350-400, but when you crank up the carbs, the bodyweight and size seem to come pretty fast. My only dilema is that I sit in an office all day, so I feel like a fat sack of shit when I just consume a boat load of meals and carbs for doing nothing....now, If I worked construction, that may be a different story........
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Perhaps it's time for you to eat "dirty". When I weighed 165 lbs, I felt like a twig and I'm only 5'9". Here is what I posted from what I posted in a thread from the Natural Bodybuilding Forum, entitled "I assume that most are HARD-GAINERS":
For all the so-called Hardgainers out there, I suggest you go back to the archives of MuscleMag International and look up some of Greg Zulak's articles on gaining size. My personal favorite is issue 145, his article on "Alternates".
It has a section on training and diet. Both will be of HUGE help to "hardgainers", no need for "Heavy Duty" or "H.I.T." In fact, Alternates involves training antagonistic body parts, with a rest period of 1-2 minutes between sets (i.e. chest and back, biceps and triceps, quads and hamstrings). I don't go to failure; to me, it's not necessary.
When it comes to calories, the basis is simple: it's all about gradually ingesting more calories in order to gain size. Remember John Parillo, the guy who had his clients consuming up to 10,000 calories per day.
Many critics, including Masters National champion, Jeff Everson and Ms. International, Tonya Knight, blasted Parillo for his dietary recommendations. But, it got many a "hardgainer" to pack on the pounds and achieve size and mass they never thought possible.
Go for six meals a day: Eat three of them; drink three of them. And, gradually bump up the calories. If 4000 calories don't get it done, go up to 4500; if that fails; go to 5000.....
The good thing about being an ectomorph, especially if you're young, is that you can ingest the calorie-dense foods needed for mass (whole eggs, beef, whole milk, etc.). Add three servings of a quality weight-gainer to the equation and you're in business. When I was doing the 6500-calories-per-day thing, half of those calories came from weight gainer (Mega Mass 2000, at that time)......
Above all, you have to be patient. As Zulak says, if you put on 30 lbs. in six months to a year, half of that might be fat. But, you'll be bigger and stronger, overall, and more filled out. Nobody puts on pure muscle all of the time. That doesn't mean turn yourself into a suckling pig, but don't be afraid of a little bodyfat....
Interesting, would you post up your diet and stats, theories? My problem is that I am NOT a hardgainer......I actually have fat kid syndrome. BUT, I am a hard eater. Meaning I am 100% clean, weigh all my foods, check out my abs every chance I get to make sure they arent fading, etc. So much so that's it's killed my progress, made my weight sink, turned me to an anerexic, and now I come to you guys for help and guidance ELSE I'll prob. need to seek therapy.
I just got so friggn pissed when my abs fade that it's disgusting. I think it's because I am so anal about my diet and so strict in training 6x a week, cardio 7x a week, that I have this mindset that goes "Shit, if my abs are fading now, and I train my ass off with weights and cardio, PLUS I eat 100% clean, what the hell is going to happen if I try and cut down the road?"...........I need some help......It would be a different animal if I ate shitty and trained here or there, but I am dedicated as hell. Catch my drift?
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Interesting, would you post up your diet and stats, theories? My problem is that I am NOT a hardgainer......I actually have fat kid syndrome. BUT, I am a hard eater. Meaning I am 100% clean, weigh all my foods, check out my abs every chance I get to make sure they arent fading, etc. So much so that's it's killed my progress, made my weight sink, turned me to an anerexic, and now I come to you guys for help and guidance ELSE I'll prob. need to seek therapy.
I just got so friggn pissed when my abs fade that it's disgusting. I think it's because I am so anal about my diet and so strict in training 6x a week, cardio 7x a week, that I have this mindset that goes "Shit, if my abs are fading now, and I train my ass off with weights and cardio, PLUS I eat 100% clean, what the hell is going to happen if I try and cut down the road?"...........I need some help......It would be a different animal if I ate shitty and trained here or there, but I am dedicated as hell. Catch my drift?
It appears as though you're going a bit bananas with the cardio. You must decide which is your top priority: gaining mass or being ripped. As mentioned earlier, there is definitely no need to become porcine in quest of size. But, adding quality will take some work, and a little bodyfat will likely accompany it.
You may be best served to consume a thermogenic/fat-burner-type supplement with your increased calories (i.e. Rev XP, ThermoGain, or ThermoDynamX). I've done that in the past and obtained good results. I've taken a break from the fat-burners, but I'll be using them again fairly soon.
As for my diet, right now, I consume 7 meals per day (3 solid, 4 liquid), which goes something like this:
Meal #1: Breakfast - Turkey sausage, eggs, milk, oatmeal
Meal #2: MRP (MET-Rx, MyoPlex, or what I'm currently using, MESO-TECH).
Meal# 3: Lunch - Fish, chicken or beef, salad, rice
Meal #4: MRP
Meal #5: Fish, chicken or beef, salad, cooked vegetables
Meal #6: Whey protein shake (or RTD)
Workout
Meal #7: CELL-TECH*, Whey protein shake (or RTD)
*: When loading, a serving of CELL-TECH is taken before breakfast.
That's been doing the trick for me, along with some other supplements: Tribulus Terrestris, ALC, Vitamin C, and (as of a week ago), Leukic.
As for my stats, I'm 5'9", 237 lbs, currently with 18" arms (which I'm hoping to get to 181/2 or 19" by the end of the year). This would be my "off-season" bodyweight, if you will.
Dedication is great. But, there's a time to be dedicated to mass and another time to be dedicated to getting ripped. If you put on bodyweight as easily as you say, I'd definitely recommend you keep (but drastically reduce) your cardio and take a fat-burner. Definitely use some creatine; I recommend CELL-TECH myself.
If you're concerned about the dextrose and calories in CELL-TECH, don't be. I used it, while trimming down last year, and lost 25 lbs. in three months, regaining my lost strength and maintaining it, thereafter. Simply balance your calories, as I did, removing carbs from regular meals to allow for the dextrose in MuscleTech's creatine cocktail.
The post I pasted here earlier is primarily for self-proclaimed hardgainers, who often lament about their struggles to gain size. This advice from the article I cited is near and dear to me, because it put me on the inside track to getting bigger.
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u gotta have a meal post workout, no?????/
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You can do a clean diet but how long will it last?
You shouldtry to cut out sugars other than PO,and then have a clean meals, and then every other a higher calorie meal, it depends on your weight though, when wanting to gain you have to eat plenty of the right food and know when to eat the not so good foodfor best results. Not so good food can be a variety of healthy things that are clean just not loaded with trans fat and sugar, almonds and cottatge cheese with natural jelly, stuff like that to keep full.MCWAY's diet is very clean and a good base for a healthy diet adding protein shakes that you sip through the day will help, as well as adding more milk also at night and then mix honey in the milk to gain more weight.
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1/2 cup egg whites
1/2 cup oats - sometimes I nix the oats for 1.5tsp of flax
1/2 cup skim
1 SCOOP PRO COMPLEX---
JAM/JELLY SF
10AM
3/4 CUP OATS
1/2 cup egg whites
1/2 cup skim
1 scoop pro
1pm
2OZ FLANK STEAK
4 OZ CHICKEN BREAST
4OZ COOKED WW PASTA
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES---
TRAIN 5:30,6PM - 7:15-730 (5 DAYS, 6 CARDIO)---
6:30
1/2 cup oats
2 SCOOPS WHEY
20G OF DEXTROSE
9:
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE
20 almonds and peanuts
1 SCOOP CASEIN
1 CUP SKIM---
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Why so strict though?
The servings are smallbut it looks good bit more protein higher amounts in the meals
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what do I need? 1,000 more cals? two meals or more of quatntity in meals? you r the first to tell me my diet doesnt look like a woman's cutting diet...cmon....be honsest with me....esp. on 300mg of test/week....
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Interesting, would you post up your diet and stats, theories? My problem is that I am NOT a hardgainer......I actually have fat kid syndrome. BUT, I am a hard eater. Meaning I am 100% clean, weigh all my foods, check out my abs every chance I get to make sure they arent fading, etc. So much so that's it's killed my progress, made my weight sink, turned me to an anerexic, and now I come to you guys for help and guidance ELSE I'll prob. need to seek therapy.
I just got so friggn pissed when my abs fade that it's disgusting. I think it's because I am so anal about my diet and so strict in training 6x a week, cardio 7x a week, that I have this mindset that goes "Shit, if my abs are fading now, and I train my ass off with weights and cardio, PLUS I eat 100% clean, what the hell is going to happen if I try and cut down the road?"...........I need some help......It would be a different animal if I ate shitty and trained here or there, but I am dedicated as hell. Catch my drift?
You sound like you may have ocd. Just say the fuck with your abs for a month or so and eat what you want(alot of it) and see what happens.
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My problem is that I am NOT a hardgainer......I actually have fat kid syndrome.
There’s the final piece of the explanation I’ve been waiting for.
turned me to an anerexic, and now I come to you guys for help and guidance ELSE I'll prob. need to seek therapy.
IMO this is what you need, not diet advice ~ you’ve got enough of that.
I just got so friggn pissed when my abs fade that it's disgusting. I think it's because I am so anal about my diet and so strict in training 6x a week, cardio 7x a week, that I have this mindset that goes "Shit, if my abs are fading now, and I train my ass off with weights and cardio, PLUS I eat 100% clean, what the hell is going to happen if I try and cut down the road?"...........I need some help......
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diet and training is all about each individual. A smaller guy cannot handle the training volume that a much bigger more developed guy can. much less a natural guy compared to a guy on juice. that's the mistake many make. it's like a beginner trying to train in chess or something the way a master would. as far as how you feel psychologically, forget about that, look at how you look. everyone NEEDS (by the way they feel) a different amount of carbs. consume enough to not feel depleted throughout the day and protein maybe 1.5g/lb of bodyweight. every two weeks look at how fat you get. if you gained more fat than you think you should have cut the total calories a little bit. I know you wanna grow so stop that cardio. you're 170 and 8% bodyfat (according to what you said) for Christ sake. don't eat girly food, eat whole eggs and beef and stuff like that.
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what do I need? 1,000 more cals? two meals or more of quatntity in meals? you r the first to tell me my diet doesnt look like a woman's cutting diet...cmon....be honsest with me....esp. on 300mg of test/week....
Again, REDUCE THE CARDIO and, yes, consume more calories. At 6'2" and 165 lbs, you can gain at least 35 lbs and still have abs. Start with an extra 500 calories and see if that works. If it doesn't then bump it up to 1000 calories. Look for a fat-burner to use as well.
Personally, I don't see the need for anabolics. There's plenty of mass that you can gain without them, on a frame like yours.
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u gotta have a meal post workout, no?????/
That's what the CELL-TECH and whey protein shake are designed to be (Meal #7). You can, of course, eat after that. But, research and my personal experience have shown that the best time to consume post-workout calories is within 45 minutes after you hit the iron.
And, of course, drinking calories is a lot faster and easier than eating them, especially in that particular scenario.
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I am 6'2, 165lb and about 8%....very anal about eating 100% clean....
brutal mass. keep on eating clean and you will never grow....
if your goal is to gain pounds, eat beyond your satiation point, one-two mouthfulls more after you have reached the "i'm full and can't take no more" state....
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OMG i thought this dude was 6'2" 170. now i see he's 165?? i'll say it again. he's WAY overtraining. does anyone else find it insane he's talking about taking test?
for a guy his size to grow some muscle he won't need more than like 2900 calories really. i think 250g of protein would be perfect. also i think key would be that muscle groups NOT be trained twice a week and 6 days a week training is INSANE. when are people gonna realize that random skinny guys who work out CANNOT work out like the pros in the magazines and MUCH LESS do an hour of cardio a day. i'd say this guy should do like 9 sets per bodypart (12 TOPS) go heavy one week and lighter the other. for example One week is 4 sets of squats, 3 sets of lunges, 2 sets of extensions and then maybe 3 supersets of SL Deads with legcurl superset and the next week high rep stuff with more focus on hams. For back one week pullups and rows and the next week deadlifts with rows. also training to failure on only one or two sets but no more. training almost every set to failure is the best way to overtrain.
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tell me I'm not taking in a miniumum of 3K in cals and I havent gained more than 2lbs.....It's the loss of abs that truly will kill me....nothing else....it's a fixation....a mental block....once they fade and Iam ok with it, I'll be 225...u watch.
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225 eh? you've been training a while i can percieve and are only 165. i dont see 225 (non-fat) in your future without drugs and about 6 more years training. You will lose the RIPPED abs but they don't have to be completely lost. you'll see them when you flex. 3K calories isn't overdoing it. it's probably the right amount for you. since you're naturally a lean guy to get your abs back you will only have to bring your calories back down to 2400 or so. maybe you could also give yourself a limit to how high you'll let your bodyfat go. if you are so afraid of getting fat then whenever your bodyfat reaches 12 drop your calories by 600 until you get back down to 8%.
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12%, lol...I dont know if Ive even been over 10%!
Adding a jar a peanut butter each day....my goal is to knock it out thriughout the day, whether it's 1/2 jar in one sitting, or 200 spoonfulls...........
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why would you want peanut butter calories? just eat the right stuff but more of it. a whole jar of peanut butter has over 6000 calories. you won't have room for any real food. i think if you did the peanut butter thing you'd get fat a lot faster (i know cause it happened to me but it wasn't just peanut butter it was chinese food too :-[ ). It's really not that hard to eat 2900 calories. if you eat 5 times a day that's less than 600 each meal and if you eat 6 times it's like 480. if you are so terrified of getting fat then your diet has to be clean. if you're worried about getting too fat just measure your bodyfat every 2 weeks. if it's getting higher too fast drop the calories a little. if it's not changing but your weight goes up then great, that's exactly what you want. most important than the scale though will be tape measurements. who cares what the scale says if you tape measure your waist and it's not growing too much and then you see your arms growing and everything else.
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I bulked up with excessive calories and I've had to lose 92 pounds so far, and I'm still not done cutting.
The next time I bulk, I'll do it more slowly and with cleaner foods. I have a few bottles of Superdrol left over too, so that should help. McWay's advice to use fat-burners alongside your bulking cycle is valid too; I'll probably use Sesathin.
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looking at my diet, u think Im around 3,200?
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no clue. when you made those measurements of food did you just do it random? they say to get big you should eat an amount of calories 18X your weight. For you 18X165=2970
That diet you got did you put it together recently for the purpose of getting bigger? i'd measure all bodyparts, weigh myself and take my bodyfat; keep the diet like it is and in 2 weeks measure everything again and start changing it then.
WTF is right when I tried "bulking" I ended up with a 36 inch waist and no more muscle than I would have had if I ate less and cleaner. muscle doesn't grow overnight so eating insane amounts of food won't have it all go into the muscles. I'm still trying to lose 3 inches on my waist. when i got up to 192 i thought i was big but i was just fat. had i been 180 my muscles would have been the exact same size. before i started working out or eating more my waist was 28. I'm trying to get it back to 30.
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eating clean will NOT produce the results many want to see. I've done it and it wasn't until college where all I cared about was 300g of protein and everything else was fair game, did I make any gains......I rarely did cardio then and I trained 5x a week....I was up to 240, lean (maybe 12%) but also 20-23 years old so my metabolism was rampid......
Now, my test levels are very low, so my main concern is if I dont supplement an HRT dose, wont most of the excess cals just be stored as fat? I was put on androderm, did nothing, so I dont think 200mg every 10 days is a crazy idea. It's not a full blow, resort to roids, idea....it's to help me muster through the low test/lethargic feeling. PLUS, having the feeling of gear running through my body and not wanting to blow my hard earned money, will hopefully give me the mindset to EAT EAT EAT...2,900 cals is too damn low......look at this, this is what I've been doing for exctly 6 weeks......:
MEAL FOOD AMOUNT CALORIES PROTEIN CARBS FAT
630-700 OATS 1 CUP 180 5 54 6
MUSCLE MILK 1 SCOOP 175 16 3 9
WGG WHITES 1 CUP 121 26 3 1
476 47 - 60 - 16
10-1030 WHOLE WHEAT BREAD 4 PIECES 220 6 40 3
TUNA 2 CANS 200 42 - 4
420 48 40 7
1230-130 CHIKEN 4 OZ 175 32 1 4
BEEF 4 OZ 175 21 - 8
BROWN RICE 1 CUP(COOKED) 220 5 45 3
GREENS LARGE 125 2 20 2
695 60 66 17
300-330 CHICK 40Z 175 32 1 4
WHOLE WHEAT PASTA 2OZ COOKED 210 9 40 2
BEEF 40Z 45 10 2 1
60 7 5 -
490 58 48 7
5:30 TRAIN
7:30:00 NOT SURE 400 40 50 4
400 40 50 4
800-8:30 NOT SURE
400 30 40 13
400 30 40 13
930
MUSCLE MILK 1 SCOOP 175 16 3 9
PEANUTS 1/4 CUP (20) 120 4 5 10
MILK 1 CUP 100 10 6 3
COTTAGE CHEESE 1 SERVING 100 20 4 2
495 50 18 24
TOTALS 3,376 333 - 322 - 88
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you were up to 240 pounds lean?
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no clue. when you made those measurements of food did you just do it random? they say to get big you should eat an amount of calories 18X your weight. For you 18X165=2970
That diet you got did you put it together recently for the purpose of getting bigger? i'd measure all bodyparts, weigh myself and take my bodyfat; keep the diet like it is and in 2 weeks measure everything again and start changing it then.
WTF is right when I tried "bulking" I ended up with a 36 inch waist and no more muscle than I would have had if I ate less and cleaner. muscle doesn't grow overnight so eating insane amounts of food won't have it all go into the muscles. I'm still trying to lose 3 inches on my waist. when i got up to 192 i thought i was big but i was just fat. had i been 180 my muscles would have been the exact same size. before i started working out or eating more my waist was 28. I'm trying to get it back to 30.
You, Mr. President (Purge), and Lugar, are all correct in your assessments. As I've aged, I've found I need fewer calories to gain size. That's why I had to make the difficult decision to eliminate one of my favorite type of supplements, weight gainers, from my arsenal.
But, as I've said on several occasions, I lived off those gainers back 10 years ago. That's how I gained 21 lbs. and three months, going from 189 to 210 in 1996. That's how I first broke the 240-lb. mark in 1997 and nearly hit 250.
I have to watch my waist now, as the days inhaling 5000-6500 calories, as I did in college, are over for me (thank the Lord). Getting back to 240 doesn't take as many calories as it did the first time I reached the mark.
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right but Im only 30, and supplement with 200mg of test, I should be able to still get away with 4,000 cals esp. at 6'2, no??? I just got to learn to live without abs, a belly Im not concerned with, no abs blows...
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right but Im only 30, and supplement with 200mg of test, I should be able to still get away with 4,000 cals esp. at 6'2, no??? I just got to learn to live without abs, a belly Im not concerned with, no abs blows...
You don't have to live without abs. They won't be razor-sharp, but with the right diet and an ample amount of (I have to say that, because you tend to go nuts with the) cardio, you should be in good shape.
I may not be able to help you with the first part of your post, because I don't use anabolics. I do believe you can hit 200 lbs. and have good abs, without drugs. How many calories that will take? You'll just have to do it via trial and error.
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this changes everything if you've been 240 at 12% bf why do you need any sort of advice here? especially from me. did you juice a lot back then? and how in the world did you lose like 65 pounds of muscle? MCWAY he said he weighed 240 at 12% bodyfat. does that sound right to you?
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Screw u! Dont ask him if it sounds right......I said it's where I was in college and thats where I was. I played football, was extremely active, and then 10 years later, found myself in an office, sitting all day, wihich halted my progress immidiately. I was look =ing for support to get over the fat feeling, and Mac has been perfect with that. Thanks buddy! As for you Gib, I dont care if you believe me or not, but it['s extremely rude and immateure to ask someone else if it sounds right....why the hell would I lie? I'm gonna get throught this, just need some support......no need to respond if you are just going to beat me into the wall.....
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i was surprised to see you do so much cardio.... if you are trying to gain mass, wouldn't it make sense to put it on the shelf so to speak? focus on lifting and eating
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i'm not into tearing people down. if you've seen me i don't look like much myself. the way you've sounded for a while here is like someone who needs to learn basics. that MAY NOT BE THE CASE but if you were 240 in college you don't need help... just do what you did back then. what i don't understand is how did you lose 65 pounds of muscle? how long did you go without training? how much did you weigh before you ever picked up a weight? how did you get so big back then?
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Screw u! Dont ask him if it sounds right......I said it's where I was in college and thats where I was. I played football, was extremely active, and then 10 years later, found myself in an office, sitting all day, wihich halted my progress immidiately. I was look =ing for support to get over the fat feeling, and Mac has been perfect with that. Thanks buddy! As for you Gib, I dont care if you believe me or not, but it['s extremely rude and immateure to ask someone else if it sounds right....why the hell would I lie? I'm gonna get throught this, just need some support......no need to respond if you are just going to beat me into the wall.....
You're welcome. I'm not trying to encourage any static between you and Gibber. I'm simply addressing your current situation, not your former one.
Again, you must prioritize your goals. You can bulk up, without leaving your abs at the door. I'm learning this as I go as well. This is a learning process for me too, as for the past year, I've had to wean myself off weight gainers after coming to the realization that I don't need the amount of calories I once did to get bigger.
You might want to go "old-school" and use a type of dieting strategy made famous by the "Iron Guru", Vince Gironda. He would have his clients eat high-protein, high calories foods and train intensely for three weeks, followed by a one-week period of light training and low-calorie, low-protein (mainly vegetables) diet to cleanse out the system.
That's just a basic overview. I'd get one of his book or check out an old issue of MuscleMag International to get more details.
And, there's the use of a fat-burner, while you're doing this.
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i'm doing gironda stuff right now mcway. i've had to learn a lot too. i haven't gained any muscle in the last 6-8 months because i've gotten to a certain weight and tried to cut and lost a ton of muscle. i've made 3 unsucessfull attempts this time around I'm doing pretty low carb, lotta steak, egg, and salad. protein powder with a little bit of half and half. my training is just normal lifting. nothing different and i haven't lost any muscle yet but the waist is going down and i'm getting more defined.
Lugar I think you don't need a lot of help as far as methods on HOW to do it. just encouragement to get back in and stay consistant. a lot of times people blame the diet or training but they are not being consistant.
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thnx bros...if i get fat, I get fat....f it.....how old are you guys?
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im 24. sorry if i disrespected before. you worry too much. you won't get fat if you keep track of all your numbers every couple weeks.
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thnx bros...if i get fat, I get fat....f it.....how old are you guys?
I turned 33 just over a month ago.
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gibber, you can easily lose a shitload of muscle when you quit working out. i had an 8-year break from weightlifting and went from 200 lbs down to 170 lbs. i was active all the time, just switched to running and swimming. when you stop training, your muscles are crying for food and if you keep on eating as if you were still training, you will turn into a fat bastard (happened to some of my friends). i had chosen a different way: cut on food and became a skinny bastard. still, losing 65 lbs is a lot, lugar. you must have done nothing but sitting at the computer all day. or over-doing cardio.
do not obsess over your abs, lugar. they still will be super strong, just hidden under a layer of fat. treat abs just as you do other muscle groups: do WEIGHTED knee/hip raises, sit-ups, crunches, etc., whatever makes you happy. when it is time to cut, you will be surprised....
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LOL...sit in front of the computer all day....I friggn wish I could do that........to be honest, I competed my ass off and trainned like no tomorrow....HOWEVER, it was for a triatholon for Luekemia....then it was two tris, then three...then before I knew it, I had done 4 tris, training 2x a day, lifting and doing crazy cardio, trying to eat as much as possble, but it wasnt easy. To say the least...so I dwindled away. Now I want to kill peopl thqat say (arent you a runner???), but it's not their fault, that's how I look...like an anerexic runner. I'm not concerned with losing ab strength, I am concerned with the loss of the defenition. Ever heard of skinny fat??????? Something I don not want to have happen!!!
Do you know what it's like to go from bench 350 and the end of your chest session to struggling with 135???? It's a shot through the heart. I know it would help if I ate and took some time off, but thats not in my vocab.........every every every single morning, it's 30 minutes of walk on 10.5 incline at 3.0 - 3.5 speed............not crazy, but enough to make me dtired. That or 3.7mph and 7.5 ramp.....every moning....then, every single day...5pm...it's weights, delts, back,legs,arms,chest repeat......
I just want to knowck it down. I also want to understand three philospohies. Post workout, prebed and separating carbs/fats in meals. If I could get my prebed meal down, without feeling like it's gonna make me fat, I'd be in heaven. Problem is, I eat this meal as I lay down and read, so I could possibly crash within minutes of finishing....is this a bad thing?? Anyone else do it?
It's
1/2 tub cottage cheese slightly frozen
1 24oz casein/milk/egg white shake
and 15-20 peanuts or almonds....thoguhts?
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Mr. Lugar, please don't listen to Gibberish. He doesn't workout. He comes on here to mess with people. He may have the worst build I have ever seen. I believe he is 190 pounds at 30% bodyfat. You seem like a good guy, Lugar, I have read a few of your posts, you just want honest advice, I just thought you should know that Giibberish is built exactly like the fat kid everyone picked on when we were young. Shame on you Gibberish. :P
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Mr. Lugar, please don't listen to Gibberish. He doesn't workout. He comes on here to mess with people. He may have the worst build I have ever seen. I believe he is 190 pounds at 30% bodyfat. You seem like a good guy, Lugar, I have read a few of your posts, you just want honest advice, I just thought you should know that Giibberish is built exactly like the fat kid everyone picked on when we were young. Shame on you Gibberish. :P
hahaha! brutal acne!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69922.0;attach=87731;image)
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hahaha! brutal acne!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69922.0;attach=87731;image)
yes, that is the kid who has been giving you advice. Shame on you Gibberish. Mr. Lugar want good advice, not advice on how to look like a piece of shit. Lugar, I assure you not everyone on here are pranksters, like this fat little kid.
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so you lost all that muscle by becoming a tri-athlete? you don't necessarily have a big problem then. just stop what made you lose all your muscle before and start doing what you did before to get big. if your testosterone is REALLY low it should come up by eating real good and lifting weights just don't over do it and stay away from the "cardio". you won't get fat if you keep track every 2 or 3 weeks of how fat you get that way you can keep it in check. Danielson we've seen superstar. he's an old fat juicer who can lift a lot of weight. where's your picture? mine are here and I've got pictures from 120lbs though i was even smaller when i started to 185 or something. the one this jackass posted is 180. I'm 178.5 now and the waist is coming down more.
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so you lost all that muscle by becoming a tri-athlete? you don't necessarily have a big problem then. just stop what made you lose all your muscle before and start doing what you did before to get big. if your testosterone is REALLY low it should come up by eating real good and lifting weights just don't over do it and stay away from the "cardio". you won't get fat if you keep track every 2 or 3 weeks of how fat you get that way you can keep it in check. Danielson we've seen superstar. he's an old fat juicer who can lift a lot of weight. where's your picture? mine are here and I've got pictures from 120lbs though i was even smaller when i started to 185 or something. the one this jackass posted is 180. I'm 178.5 now and the waist is coming down more.
Gibberish, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you are still trying to play this one off?
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i've heard about you being some kinda drug addict. while i dont pay attention to that kinda stuff you were either born stupid or made stupid by drugs. "play this one off" ?? ususally when people "play something off" is when they pretend something didn't happen or whatever. i am in no way doing that. any picture of me that are here were put by me so why would i care if they are here? you still haven't posted a picture. in my gym there is a karate class and not only can none of them fight they are all out of shape. are you one like that? i'm addressing everything head on so what is this "playing this one off" stuff? clearly you being a guy who's new here with 34 posts per day you don't even know what you're saying any more.
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i've heard about you being some kinda drug addict. while i dont pay attention to that kinda stuff you were either born stupid or made stupid by drugs. "play this one off" ?? ususally when people "play something off" is when they pretend something didn't happen or whatever. i am in no way doing that. any picture of me that are here were put by me so why would i care if they are here? you still haven't posted a picture. in my gym there is a karate class and not only can none of them fight they are all out of shape. are you one like that? i'm addressing everything head on so what is this "playing this one off" stuff? clearly you being a guy who's new here with 34 posts per day you don't even know what you're saying any more.
I tried reading it, but it was all "gibberish".
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OK now i know what category you're in here.
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Danielson we've seen superstar. he's an old fat juicer who can lift a lot of weight.
I resent that >:(
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OK now i know what category you're in here.
you will see my pics for the contest, hold tight my chubby little friend.
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.... i was even smaller when i started to 185 or something. the one this jackass posted is 180. I'm 178.5 now and the waist is coming down more.
a 1.5 lbs loss, brutal diet
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.... That or 3.7mph and 7.5 ramp.....every moning....then, every single day...5pm...it's weights, delts, back,legs,arms,chest repeat......
if you do circular training, do not expect to gain much muscle mass, if any. if you plan on continuing triathlons than you've been doing exactly what you need to be doing so there's no reason to worry about.
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"the contest" ? what 34/posts per day contest?
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hey if you guys want to bash each other, that's fine....just pick a different thread, show a little respect, eh?
New Week today, new diet....you guys tell me exactly where I dropped the ball and I will be able to change it imiidiately
WAKE 5AM
30 MINUTES 10.5 INCLINE WALK AT 3.0-3.5 SPEED
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what's the cardio for?
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to help speed up my metabolism, make me hungrier, keep bf in check, etc. Bad idea? I sit all damn day in an office, so I like to do something before I get in:
530
30 minutes walk, abs, shower, get ready for work, etc
700am MEAL #1
1 TEASPOON OF FLAX (90 CALS, 6G OF FAT)
1 CUP EGG BEATERS (120CALS, 20G PRO)
1/2 CUP SKIM (60 CALS, 6G PRO)
1 SCOOP CASEIN (140CALS, 20G PRO)
LARGE COFFEE
TOTAL 410 CALS/46G PRO/5-8 CARBS/6G OF FAT
NEXT MEAL AT 10AM WILL BE PROTEIN/CARB MEAL
1 CUP ROLLED OATS
4 EGG WHITES
1/2 CUP EGG BEATERS
1 SCOOP CASEIN
NEXT MEAL AT 1:15PM - PROTEIN/CARBS AGAIN....3 HRS PRIOR TO TRAINING.
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i usually have
6am a bowl of cereal
7am-8:30am workout (have a power drink during it)
9am post-workout shake (glutamine + protein)
10:30am 1 pound of chicken, coke
2pm another protein shake + bagel or two
5:30pm meal (e.g. rice, pasta, some meat, veggies, whatever)
8pm meal (e.g. cottage cheese, eggs)
10pm protein shake (with glutamine and flax oil), go to sleep
i also drink a shitload of coffee between meals....
again, depending on your goals, if you want to gain muscle, you must eat a lot, neither dirty nor super clean, somewhere in between.
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Nice of you to post your diet, but if you wouldnt mind starting your own thread to do so, it would be appreciated. I can help you out if you do as will many other bros....looks like your diet needs some serious work, as mine is more of a final tuneup- DITCH THE COKE, CEREAL AND BAGELS #1
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Nice of you to post your diet, but if you wouldnt mind starting your own thread to do so, it would be appreciated. I can help you out if you do as will many other bros....looks like your diet needs some serious work, as mine is more of a final tuneup- DITCH THE COKE, CEREAL AND BAGELS #1
DIET UPDATED ABOVE
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hey if you guys want to bash each other, that's fine....just pick a different thread, show a little respect, eh?
New Week today, new diet....you guys tell me exactly where I dropped the ball and I will be able to change it imiidiately
WAKE 5AM
30 MINUTES 10.5 INCLINE WALK AT 3.0-3.5 SPEED
sorry bro, consider it done.
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don't do the cardio you wanna get big. that goes against you. to speed up metabolism? lifting speeds it up more. people say lifting weights isn't cardio... i guess they don't think people breathe or increase their heart-rates while lifting.
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any other bros have any insight??? Much appreciated.
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any other bros have any insight??? Much appreciated.
Do you vary your cardio?
I'm a fan of interval cardio training, something along the lines of a sprint/walk workout, I've seen some evidence that this is best for VO2 max, fat burning, and overall endurance, kind of a best of all things. The reasoning is general cardio (walking for x minutes even at an incline) is something your body gets used to quickly. You're essentially training yourself to be efficient at that workload for that period of time. Yes you burn calories, but in my opinion starting with an amino acid/scoop of protein powder immediately before interval cardio in the morning usually does the best.
As far as diet, some may laugh at this, but I actually liked the old ABCD "Anabolic Burst Cycling Diet", that Bill Philips used to push 6-7 years ago. I seem to adjust to workout and diet changes very quickly, but I always seem to be able to initiate gains by force feeding for a few days but then backing off slowly. I think the biggest trick to that diet was that you gained/lost water weight which helped with strength (the diet phases were not long enough to loose significant strength) and kept your metabolism guessing for the most part.
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any other bros have any insight??? Much appreciated.
You can do the cardio, especially if you have "fat kid" syndrome. You simply can't continue going buck wild with it. I recommend you get this month's MuscleMag International (# 291). There's a good article on page 144, entitled "Endomorphic Bodybuilding". This is one of the few articles I've seen about this subject. As, the beginning of it states, most articles about training and nutrition are geared towards people who have trouble putting on weight.
I agree. When I first posted here, I assumed you were yet another of those self-proclaimed hardgainers (ectomorphs).
Plus, there's an article in FLEX (a couple of issues back) regarding Gunter Schlierkamp's diet. He says he gets better results when he eats 6000 calories and does cardio than he would if he ditched the cardio and simply ate fewer (4500) calories. You may be in a similar boat.
But, PLEASE, there's no need for doing cardio 7 days per week. If you get any smaller, Michael Jackson is going to have to cut a charity album for you, "USA for Lugar".
;D
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This is very true! However, after being an athlete all my life and now finding myself in an office for 10 hours every day before I train is very difficult. SOme may love that idea, as it allows them to bulk, rest and put on mass, but I have the need to do something first thing in the morning. I've tried to cut back, so I switched to 10.5 ramp and 3.0-3.5 speed, but this is pretty taxing. Not sure if it's because I am exremely overtrained and burned out, but I am zonked for a few hours post......I just would like to have a concrete diet in place, one that will allow me to put on lean mass and not worry about at gain chubbyness!
My am shake this morning was
1 fish oil tab
1/2 tsp of flax
1 scoop casein
1 cup egg whites
large coffee (all fats and protein)
next meal will be 1 cup of oats, 6 egg whites and a scoop of casein (all carbs and protein)
I would so much LOVE to just go to QUiznos and get a couple footlongs for lunch, then go train, then eat all night, but my body and mind say no way!
Here in lies the biggest problem I have mentally aside from losing the abs (shit, anyone can have abs at 160, I look anerexic but cant beat it) I eat my final meal of the day as I lay down and watch tv and zonk out for the night. So, this tyhpically is 5 minutes before I actually turn the lights out. Thats why I do am cardio, because my mind says since I ate so late, I need to go burn it off. I used t have a huge bowl of cottage cheese, a slew of veggies and ff dip, about 20-25 peanuts in the shell, and a huge casein shake. Prob. way too many calories huh, but I been starving myself all day cause I love this meal and want to be able to consume it. It's def. my favorite meal of the day and one I look forward to. it's post workout, it's while I relax, and it's just "fun" to eat.........is this bad? Too many cals? Are the peanuts and veggies a bad idea? WIll this result in fat gain?
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To build mass you gotta have carbs. Carbs/ Protein mixture is highly anabolic. How much fat you gain during clean bulk is based on ur genetics given that you eat very clean. To diet you gotta use carbs wisely and sparingly. Once during morning and once after workout. Veggie thruout night...