Author Topic: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes  (Read 3927 times)

Dos Equis

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Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« on: May 24, 2023, 12:01:19 AM »
Times they are a changing.

Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
Daniel de Visé
Mon, May 22, 2023

Only half of Americans now say they are sure God exists.

That finding, from the closely watched General Social Survey, stands out among several nuggets of new data about religion in America.

Not quite 50 percent of Americans say they have no doubt about the existence of God, according to the 2022 survey, released Wednesday by NORC, the University of Chicago research organization. As recently as 2008, the share of sure-believers topped 60 percent.

Thirty-four percent of Americans never go to church, NORC found, the highest figure recorded in five decades of surveys.

Another new report, from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), said that 27 percent of Americans claimed no religion in 2022, up from 19 percent in 2012 and 16 percent in 2006.

The PRRI report tracks a historic decline in the nation’s Christian population, especially among white people. The share of Americans who identify as white evangelical Protestants has dwindled from 23 percent to 14 percent since 2006. The share of mainline white Protestants has fallen from 18 percent to 14 percent. White Catholics have declined from 16 percent of the population to 13 percent.

That is not to say Americans are not spiritual. Nearly three-quarters of people believe in life after death, NORC data show. That number has remained relatively stable over the decades.

Only 7 percent of people do not believe in God.

“Belief is very stubborn in America today,” said Ryan Burge, a political scientist at Eastern Illinois University who studies faith.

Church membership, church attendance and belief in God all declined in the pandemic years, but the trend away from organized worship goes back generations.

“We have a data point from the 1950s where only 3 percent of people said they had no [religious] affiliation,” said Mark Chaves, Anne Firor Scott Distinguished Professor of Sociology at Duke University. “It got up to 8 or 9 percent in the 1990s, and it’s sort of accelerated since then.”

Religious scholars consider NORC the gold standard of surveys on faith. The General Social Survey found 29 percent of Americans claiming no religion in 2021, up from 23 percent in 2018 and 5 percent in 1972.

During the pandemic 2020, the share of Americans who belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque dipped below half for possibly the first time in American history. Gallup polling had measured church membership since the Depression, when more than 70 percent of Americans belonged to some house of worship.

Mainline Protestantism, the backbone of faith in many American communities, is “collapsing,” Burge wrote in a recent article on the decline of Baptists, Methodists and other denominations.

Since the 1970s, the share of Americans who identify with Protestant denominations has declined from nearly 1 in 3 to around 1 in 10.

Decades ago, nearly every American child was raised in some religion. Today, nearly 15 percent of the population reports no religious upbringing.

“They’re not saying night prayers, morning prayers, taking their kids to church,” said Thomas Groome, a professor in theology and religious education at Boston College. “Whatever religion we have going forward will be by persuasion and choice and not by inherited identity.”

While many religion trend lines are sinking, one key population is rising: nondenominational Protestants, or “nons,” who worship outside the mainline of Protestantism.

The population of nons has risen from next to nothing in the 1970s to nearly 15 percent of Americans. Nondenominational Protestants “are the second-largest religious group in America today, after Catholics,” Burge said.

Many nons attend megachurches, large congregations that have risen up outside the mainline tradition.

“They might be denominational, but you wouldn’t know it,” Burge said. “A lot of these churches are called the Arc, or the Bridge.” They may not advertise their denomination. Worshippers perceive them as independent of the nation’s religious establishment.

“We don’t like institutions, whether it be banks or unions or big business,” Burge said. “And those nondenominational churches are almost always startups. It’s a guy in his basement.”

But the surging megachurch population is not enough to reverse the downward trend in churchgoing. On NORC surveys, nondenominational Protestants are sprinkled across two categories of religious preference, both in decline.

To some extent, declining faith is a generational trend. The share of Americans who claim no religion rises with progressively younger age groups: 9 percent of the Silent Generation, 18 percent of baby boomers, 25 percent of Generation X, 29 percent of millennials and 34 percent of Generation Z, according to data from the Survey Center on American Life.

But the rise in nonreligious Americans is too steep to be fully explained “in terms of generational replacement; that is, religious old people dying and secular young people taking their place,” said David Campbell, the Packey J. Dee Professor of American Democracy at the University of Notre Dame.

Campbell and other scholars suspect many Americans are simply becoming more open about rejecting religion, an admission once clouded in stigma.

“It used to be that the religiously uninvolved people, when you asked them what religion they are, they would still say, ‘Yeah, I’m Catholic, I’m Presbyterian,’ whatever,” Chaves said. Today, the same Americans are “taking the next step of saying, ‘I’m nothing.’”

Changing societal norms may also explain why half of Americans can now say they aren’t sure there is a God.

Stigma remains, however, around the idea of rejecting God altogether.

The vast majority of Americans still report they believe in God without reservation, with some doubts, or at least some of the time. If not God per se, they believe in “some higher power.”

True nonbelievers — atheists — account for only 7 percent of the population. Agnostics, who say the existence of God is unknowable, make up another 7 percent.

Belief in God endures even among Americans who claim not to be religious: Roughly half of them believe in some sort of creator, Burge said.

“Assuming that church attendance is the measure of faith, that notion is becoming obsolete,” Groome said. “We’ve always used church attendance as the hallmark of the faith in our people, and I don’t think they’re synonymous.”

Faith and churchgoing remain particularly strong among Republicans. Forty-four percent of Republicans attend church at least once a week, compared to 29 percent of Democrats, Pew data shows. Most atheists are Democrats.

But religion also remains relatively strong among Black and Hispanic Americans. Both groups are more likely than whites to attend church regularly.

“That’s a complication for the Democrats, actually,” Campbell said, because Black and Hispanic voters remain predominantly Democratic.

Despite the steady decline in religiosity, the United States remains “a very religious country by world standards,” Chaves said.

In one global comparison, Pew Research found 19 percent of Americans claimed no religion. The figure was higher in Germany (26 percent), Britain (31 percent), France (32 percent), China (52 percent) and Japan (60 percent), but lower in Russia (15 percent), Italy (13 percent) and India (less than 1 percent).

https://news.yahoo.com/does-god-exist-only-half-100000510.html

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2023, 01:57:31 AM »
34% never go to church but only 50% are sure God exists? This must mean there are people who go to church who don't believe in God.

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2023, 07:58:30 AM »
Times they are a changing.

Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
Daniel de Visé
Mon, May 22, 2023

Only half of Americans now say they are sure God exists.

That finding, from the closely watched General Social Survey, stands out among several nuggets of new data about religion in America.

Not quite 50 percent of Americans say they have no doubt about the existence of God, according to the 2022 survey, released Wednesday by NORC, the University of Chicago research organization. As recently as 2008, the share of sure-believers topped 60 percent.

Thirty-four percent of Americans never go to church, NORC found, the highest figure recorded in five decades of surveys.

Another new report, from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), said that 27 percent of Americans claimed no religion in 2022, up from 19 percent in 2012 and 16 percent in 2006.

The PRRI report tracks a historic decline in the nation’s Christian population, especially among white people. The share of Americans who identify as white evangelical Protestants has dwindled from 23 percent to 14 percent since 2006. The share of mainline white Protestants has fallen from 18 percent to 14 percent. White Catholics have declined from 16 percent of the population to 13 percent.

That is not to say Americans are not spiritual. Nearly three-quarters of people believe in life after death, NORC data show. That number has remained relatively stable over the decades.

Only 7 percent of people do not believe in God.

“Belief is very stubborn in America today,” said Ryan Burge, a political scientist at Eastern Illinois University who studies faith.

Church membership, church attendance and belief in God all declined in the pandemic years, but the trend away from organized worship goes back generations.

“We have a data point from the 1950s where only 3 percent of people said they had no [religious] affiliation,” said Mark Chaves, Anne Firor Scott Distinguished Professor of Sociology at Duke University. “It got up to 8 or 9 percent in the 1990s, and it’s sort of accelerated since then.”

Religious scholars consider NORC the gold standard of surveys on faith. The General Social Survey found 29 percent of Americans claiming no religion in 2021, up from 23 percent in 2018 and 5 percent in 1972.

During the pandemic 2020, the share of Americans who belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque dipped below half for possibly the first time in American history. Gallup polling had measured church membership since the Depression, when more than 70 percent of Americans belonged to some house of worship.

Mainline Protestantism, the backbone of faith in many American communities, is “collapsing,” Burge wrote in a recent article on the decline of Baptists, Methodists and other denominations.

Since the 1970s, the share of Americans who identify with Protestant denominations has declined from nearly 1 in 3 to around 1 in 10.

Decades ago, nearly every American child was raised in some religion. Today, nearly 15 percent of the population reports no religious upbringing.

“They’re not saying night prayers, morning prayers, taking their kids to church,” said Thomas Groome, a professor in theology and religious education at Boston College. “Whatever religion we have going forward will be by persuasion and choice and not by inherited identity.”

While many religion trend lines are sinking, one key population is rising: nondenominational Protestants, or “nons,” who worship outside the mainline of Protestantism.

The population of nons has risen from next to nothing in the 1970s to nearly 15 percent of Americans. Nondenominational Protestants “are the second-largest religious group in America today, after Catholics,” Burge said.

Many nons attend megachurches, large congregations that have risen up outside the mainline tradition.

“They might be denominational, but you wouldn’t know it,” Burge said. “A lot of these churches are called the Arc, or the Bridge.” They may not advertise their denomination. Worshippers perceive them as independent of the nation’s religious establishment.

“We don’t like institutions, whether it be banks or unions or big business,” Burge said. “And those nondenominational churches are almost always startups. It’s a guy in his basement.”

But the surging megachurch population is not enough to reverse the downward trend in churchgoing. On NORC surveys, nondenominational Protestants are sprinkled across two categories of religious preference, both in decline.

To some extent, declining faith is a generational trend. The share of Americans who claim no religion rises with progressively younger age groups: 9 percent of the Silent Generation, 18 percent of baby boomers, 25 percent of Generation X, 29 percent of millennials and 34 percent of Generation Z, according to data from the Survey Center on American Life.

But the rise in nonreligious Americans is too steep to be fully explained “in terms of generational replacement; that is, religious old people dying and secular young people taking their place,” said David Campbell, the Packey J. Dee Professor of American Democracy at the University of Notre Dame.

Campbell and other scholars suspect many Americans are simply becoming more open about rejecting religion, an admission once clouded in stigma.

“It used to be that the religiously uninvolved people, when you asked them what religion they are, they would still say, ‘Yeah, I’m Catholic, I’m Presbyterian,’ whatever,” Chaves said. Today, the same Americans are “taking the next step of saying, ‘I’m nothing.’”

Changing societal norms may also explain why half of Americans can now say they aren’t sure there is a God.

Stigma remains, however, around the idea of rejecting God altogether.

The vast majority of Americans still report they believe in God without reservation, with some doubts, or at least some of the time. If not God per se, they believe in “some higher power.”

True nonbelievers — atheists — account for only 7 percent of the population. Agnostics, who say the existence of God is unknowable, make up another 7 percent.

Belief in God endures even among Americans who claim not to be religious: Roughly half of them believe in some sort of creator, Burge said.

“Assuming that church attendance is the measure of faith, that notion is becoming obsolete,” Groome said. “We’ve always used church attendance as the hallmark of the faith in our people, and I don’t think they’re synonymous.”

Faith and churchgoing remain particularly strong among Republicans. Forty-four percent of Republicans attend church at least once a week, compared to 29 percent of Democrats, Pew data shows. Most atheists are Democrats.

But religion also remains relatively strong among Black and Hispanic Americans. Both groups are more likely than whites to attend church regularly.

“That’s a complication for the Democrats, actually,” Campbell said, because Black and Hispanic voters remain predominantly Democratic.

Despite the steady decline in religiosity, the United States remains “a very religious country by world standards,” Chaves said.

In one global comparison, Pew Research found 19 percent of Americans claimed no religion. The figure was higher in Germany (26 percent), Britain (31 percent), France (32 percent), China (52 percent) and Japan (60 percent), but lower in Russia (15 percent), Italy (13 percent) and India (less than 1 percent).

https://news.yahoo.com/does-god-exist-only-half-100000510.html

Lack of belief will get exponentially worse.

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2023, 08:23:39 AM »
66% of peeps go to church?

Hard to believe.

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2023, 12:52:35 AM »
66% of peeps go to church?

Hard to believe.
When I was a kid all of my friends went to church. Now, none of them do.

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2023, 11:25:59 PM »
I think there have always been more Atheist than reported in years past. The article does point that out. While it's a whole lot more acceptable now, I still think people shy away from the label for fear of being judged or ostracized. Probably similar for Agnostics. And I know people who attend church who are atheist or agnostics, but they live in communities where Church is a social function, a place to network and not participating can impact your livelihood. Also, some non-believers have believers in their family and so they will join them. My son is a non believer but goes to church with his wife and kids so that they can have a shot at making up their own minds, and since it is a non-denominational church, he says the messages are positive and can be applied to anyone's life. Be kind to others, Be honest, be a good person. Don't dwell on mistakes from the past etc.

I think as we evolve, make strides in science, have less children indoctrinated into religion, the numbers will continue to change. 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2023, 01:02:59 AM »
I think there have always been more Atheist than reported in years past. The article does point that out. While it's a whole lot more acceptable now, I still think people shy away from the label for fear of being judged or ostracized. Probably similar for Agnostics. And I know people who attend church who are atheist or agnostics, but they live in communities where Church is a social function, a place to network and not participating can impact your livelihood. Also, some non-believers have believers in their family and so they will join them. My son is a non believer but goes to church with his wife and kids so that they can have a shot at making up their own minds, and since it is a non-denominational church, he says the messages are positive and can be applied to anyone's life. Be kind to others, Be honest, be a good person. Don't dwell on mistakes from the past etc.

I think as we evolve, make strides in science, have less children indoctrinated into religion, the numbers will continue to change.
All very true.

Dos Equis

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2023, 12:08:32 PM »
When I was a kid all of my friends went to church. Now, none of them do.

I’ve always seen an age gap among religious people.  Growing up, a lot of us went to church because our parents made us go.  When kids become young adults, they often stop going.  Then come back when they get older.  Still true today.  I’m one of the few who never stopped going.  ‘

There are times when I question God’s existence.  But a number of things keep me grounded, including seeing the effects of answered prayer in my life and the magic of everything we see (our bodies, animals, the environment, etc.).  It’s all too perfect to be here by accident.  I’m definitely a believer in intelligent design, which leads to a belief in God. 

But I always respect anyone who doesn’t share my beliefs.  That’s why some of my good friends are atheists, including one of my key employees.  ‘

I do, however, mock atheists who spend their lives obsessing over something they don’t believe exists.  I have no problem slapping those folks around.   ;D

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2023, 08:55:34 PM »
I’ve always seen an age gap among religious people.  Growing up, a lot of us went to church because our parents made us go.  When kids become young adults, they often stop going.  Then come back when they get older.  Still true today.  I’m one of the few who never stopped going.  ‘

There are times when I question God’s existence.  But a number of things keep me grounded, including seeing the effects of answered prayer in my life and the magic of everything we see (our bodies, animals, the environment, etc.).  It’s all too perfect to be here by accident.  I’m definitely a believer in intelligent design, which leads to a belief in God. 

But I always respect anyone who doesn’t share my beliefs.  That’s why some of my good friends are atheists, including one of my key employees.  ‘

I do, however, mock atheists who spend their lives obsessing over something they don’t believe exists.  I have no problem slapping those folks around.   ;D

I respect your right to your belief as well. I also am not a fan of rabid atheists antagonizing believers. I do however understand why some atheists have organized for political purposes. Just a look at history is all one needs to understand it. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2023, 02:31:16 PM »
I respect your right to your belief as well. I also am not a fan of rabid atheists antagonizing believers. I do however understand why some atheists have organized for political purposes. Just a look at history is all one needs to understand it.

History doesn't show atheists as some persecuted minority. 

Atheist activists are crazy.  Protesting and complaining about something they don't believe exists.  Debating the Bible.  Filing lawsuits over having to look at religious symbols.  I could never see myself complaining about (or suffering emotional distress from looking at) Santa Claus. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2023, 08:31:14 PM »

History doesn't show atheists as some persecuted minority. 

Atheist activists are crazy.  Protesting and complaining about something they don't believe exists.  Debating the Bible.  Filing lawsuits over having to look at religious symbols.  I could never see myself complaining about (or suffering emotional distress from looking at) Santa Claus.
[/quote]

 Atheists were burned as witches, it was written into many state constitutions made it a requirement that you must have a belief in a higher power to hold office. If that's not persecuted as a minority, I give up.

"It’s a little strange, admittedly, for the Texas Constitution to still have an obviously unenforceable, unconstitutional bit of language. And while it’s never received a legal challenge from a candidate, it is worth considering if, potentially, the fact that the unconstitutional language remains in place has some sort of chilling effect on otherwise-qualified atheist candidates who opt not to run (or sue) in the first place. "

"During the early modern period, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as those who had committed suicide, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.[11][12][16] Atheistic beliefs were seen as threatening to order and society by philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas. Lawyer and scholar Thomas More said that religious tolerance should be extended to all except those who did not believe in a deity or the immortality of the soul.[14] John Locke, a founder of modern notions of religious liberty, argued that atheists (as well as Catholics and Muslims) should not be granted full citizenship rights.[14]

During the Inquisition, several of those who were accused of atheism or blasphemy, or both, were tortured or executed. These included the priest Giulio Cesare Vanini who was strangled and burned in 1619 and the Polish nobleman Kazimierz Łyszczyński who was executed in Warsaw,[11][17][18] as well as Etienne Dolet, a Frenchman executed in 1546. Though heralded as atheist martyrs during the nineteenth century, recent scholars hold that the beliefs espoused by Dolet and Vanini are not atheistic in modern terms.[13][19][20]

"In the United States, seven state constitutions include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early twentieth century.[The U.S. Constitution permits an affirmation in place of an oath to allow atheists to give testimony in court or to hold public office. However, the Supreme Court case Torcaso v. Watkins (1961) reaffirmed that the U.S. Constitution prohibits states and the federal government from requiring any kind of religious test for public office, in this specific case as a notary public.This decision is generally understood to also apply to witness oaths.

Respondents to a survey were less likely to support a kidney transplant for hypothetical atheists and agnostics needing it, than for Christian patients with similar medical needs.[76] As the Boy Scouts of America does not allow atheists as members, atheist families and the ACLU from the 1990s onwards have launched a series of court cases arguing discrimination against atheists. In response to ACLU lawsuits, the Pentagon in 2004 ended sponsorship of Scouting units,[77][78] and in 2005 the BSA agreed to transfer all Scouting units out of government entities such as public schools.[79][80]

Dos Equis

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2023, 12:08:40 AM »
History doesn't show atheists as some persecuted minority. 

Atheist activists are crazy.  Protesting and complaining about something they don't believe exists.  Debating the Bible.  Filing lawsuits over having to look at religious symbols.  I could never see myself complaining about (or suffering emotional distress from looking at) Santa Claus.


 Atheists were burned as witches, it was written into many state constitutions made it a requirement that you must have a belief in a higher power to hold office. If that's not persecuted as a minority, I give up.

"It’s a little strange, admittedly, for the Texas Constitution to still have an obviously unenforceable, unconstitutional bit of language. And while it’s never received a legal challenge from a candidate, it is worth considering if, potentially, the fact that the unconstitutional language remains in place has some sort of chilling effect on otherwise-qualified atheist candidates who opt not to run (or sue) in the first place. "

"During the early modern period, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as those who had committed suicide, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.[11][12][16] Atheistic beliefs were seen as threatening to order and society by philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas. Lawyer and scholar Thomas More said that religious tolerance should be extended to all except those who did not believe in a deity or the immortality of the soul.[14] John Locke, a founder of modern notions of religious liberty, argued that atheists (as well as Catholics and Muslims) should not be granted full citizenship rights.[14]

During the Inquisition, several of those who were accused of atheism or blasphemy, or both, were tortured or executed. These included the priest Giulio Cesare Vanini who was strangled and burned in 1619 and the Polish nobleman Kazimierz Łyszczyński who was executed in Warsaw,[11][17][18] as well as Etienne Dolet, a Frenchman executed in 1546. Though heralded as atheist martyrs during the nineteenth century, recent scholars hold that the beliefs espoused by Dolet and Vanini are not atheistic in modern terms.[13][19][20]

"In the United States, seven state constitutions include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early twentieth century.[The U.S. Constitution permits an affirmation in place of an oath to allow atheists to give testimony in court or to hold public office. However, the Supreme Court case Torcaso v. Watkins (1961) reaffirmed that the U.S. Constitution prohibits states and the federal government from requiring any kind of religious test for public office, in this specific case as a notary public.This decision is generally understood to also apply to witness oaths.

Respondents to a survey were less likely to support a kidney transplant for hypothetical atheists and agnostics needing it, than for Christian patients with similar medical needs.[76] As the Boy Scouts of America does not allow atheists as members, atheist families and the ACLU from the 1990s onwards have launched a series of court cases arguing discrimination against atheists. In response to ACLU lawsuits, the Pentagon in 2004 ended sponsorship of Scouting units,[77][78] and in 2005 the BSA agreed to transfer all Scouting units out of government entities such as public schools.[79][80]

What is this?  Your comments or excerpts from some article? 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2023, 12:53:04 AM »
History doesn't show atheists as some persecuted minority. 

Atheist activists are crazy.  Protesting and complaining about something they don't believe exists.  Debating the Bible.  Filing lawsuits over having to look at religious symbols.  I could never see myself complaining about (or suffering emotional distress from looking at) Santa Claus.
:D No shit!

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2023, 08:34:28 PM »
What is this?  Your comments or excerpts from some article?

Just demonstrating there was/is in fact a history of persecution. You're welcome

Dos Equis

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2023, 01:33:59 PM »
Just demonstrating there was/is in fact a history of persecution. You're welcome

You didn't demonstrate anything.  You posted some combination of your own comments and a cut-and-paste from an unknown source saying some undetermined number of atheists were burned as witches. 

No, assuming what you posted it is accurate, this does not prove that atheists were a persecuted minority because some unknown number were allegedly burned hundreds of years ago.

In the United States, atheists were not systematically denied civil liberties, unable to work, unable to vote, unable to enjoy public accommodations, etc.  Nor does that happen today. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2023, 10:39:38 PM »
You didn't demonstrate anything.  You posted some combination of your own comments and a cut-and-paste from an unknown source saying some undetermined number of atheists were burned as witches. 

No, assuming what you posted it is accurate, this does not prove that atheists were a persecuted minority because some unknown number were allegedly burned hundreds of years ago.

In the United States, atheists were not systematically denied civil liberties, unable to work, unable to vote, unable to enjoy public accommodations, etc.  Nor does that happen today.

And you say that after being informed several state consititutions still have a requirement that to hold office you have to believe in a higher power. If that doesn't ring a bell in your head that it hasn't been a level playing field for atheists, I don't know what else to say at this point. We can agree to disagree

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2023, 11:28:37 PM »
And you say that after being informed several state consititutions still have a requirement that to hold office you have to believe in a higher power. If that doesn't ring a bell in your head that it hasn't been a level playing field for atheists, I don't know what else to say at this point. We can agree to disagree

I wasn't informed about anything.  You gave me some combination of a cut-and-paste and your own comments.  Cannot tell which is which or where you got your info.  What is the source of your info?  You have a link?  I'd like to read it myself. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Does God exist? Only half of Americans say a definite yes
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2023, 10:01:57 AM »
I wasn't informed about anything.  You gave me some combination of a cut-and-paste and your own comments.  Cannot tell which is which or where you got your info.  What is the source of your info?  You have a link?  I'd like to read it myself.
\
https://source.colostate.edu/why-it-matters-that-7-states-still-have-bans-on-atheists-holding-office/

knock yourself out..