Author Topic: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.  (Read 11824 times)

oldtimer1

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2020, 07:52:55 PM »
I understand your point and value your opinion.  I've trained natural and enhanced, so i would think i have a pretty good idea of reality and the ability to compare the two; i've spent almost the same time as a natural as i have on gear.  If you think jumping on TRT would make a big difference for you physically, you would be mistaken.  You need to get into the 300+mg per week range to see real changes.  TRT is much lower than that.  There are very few real legit doctors that will give you more than 200mg every 14-21 days, at least not for real medical use.

I think me being honest about using gear is important, if you think about it, all the training protocols you have read since the 80's were most likely written by current or former gear users.  That's why i believe following the training protocols of certain famous bodybuilders is rather strange.

At the end of the day gear does make a difference in how you respond to training and how fast you recover, but i don't believe there is a particular style of "natural" bodybuilding.  I think a natural just needs to be more consistent, take longer to recover and eat better.
My point in pointing out therapeutic hormone replacement is there are  a boat load of users that claim they are on therapeutic hormone replacement that are buying vials of test out of the trunk of a guy's car trunk being delusional claiming THR but are taking way more than any doctor would prescribe.  I see the 50 year olds in the gym saying they are off the juice claiming THR but are clearly taking a ton of test. Not the same as a regular 50 year old using a prescription. Even taking a prescription can make a difference in training. Not drastic but a difference.

I told this story before. I tested border line in natural testosterone production in my 60's and a doctor said he would give me test. I asked about the some studies indicating an increased heart and stroke risk. He said he would prescribe clomid instead.  It is a drug sometimes used to increase fertility in males. It acts like LH hormone increasing test. I used it for about six weeks if my memory serves me. It increased my natural test  more than two times what it was. I went from 300 to 700.  I also believe it helped my physique.  I went for a follow up appointment learning my doctor left the urology group. The next doctor said it was insanity he put me on it. He said while it was used off label to increase fertility in males it was never studied for long time usage.  He said  it's use in a very small numbers of males study showed an increase in brain tumors. He told me to stop using it and I have.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2020, 03:52:38 AM »
My point in pointing out therapeutic hormone replacement is there are  a boat load of users that claim they are on therapeutic hormone replacement that are buying vials of test out of the trunk of a guy's car trunk being delusional claiming THR but are taking way more than any doctor would prescribe.  I see the 50 year olds in the gym saying they are off the juice claiming THR but are clearly taking a ton of test. Not the same as a regular 50 year old using a prescription. Even taking a prescription can make a difference in training. Not drastic but a difference.

I told this story before. I tested border line in natural testosterone production in my 60's and a doctor said he would give me test. I asked about the some studies indicating an increased heart and stroke risk. He said he would prescribe clomid instead.  It is a drug sometimes used to increase fertility in males. It acts like LH hormone increasing test. I used it for about six weeks if my memory serves me. It increased my natural test  more than two times what it was. I went from 300 to 700.  I also believe it helped my physique.  I went for a follow up appointment learning my doctor left the urology group. The next doctor said it was insanity he put me on it. He said while it was used off label to increase fertility in males it was never studied for long time usage.  He said  it's use in a very small numbers of males study showed an increase in brain tumors. He told me to stop using it and I have.
This is a great example why people should get 2nd opinions from doctors as they vary widely in their ability.

IroNat

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2020, 05:22:54 AM »
Q:What do you call someone who finished last in his med school class?

A:Doctor

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2020, 09:58:45 AM »
Q:What do you call someone who finished last in his med school class? A:Doctor.
Who finished 1st?

ThisisOverload

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2020, 11:08:56 AM »
My point in pointing out therapeutic hormone replacement is there are  a boat load of users that claim they are on therapeutic hormone replacement that are buying vials of test out of the trunk of a guy's car trunk being delusional claiming THR but are taking way more than any doctor would prescribe.  I see the 50 year olds in the gym saying they are off the juice claiming THR but are clearly taking a ton of test. Not the same as a regular 50 year old using a prescription. Even taking a prescription can make a difference in training. Not drastic but a difference.

I told this story before. I tested border line in natural testosterone production in my 60's and a doctor said he would give me test. I asked about the some studies indicating an increased heart and stroke risk. He said he would prescribe clomid instead.  It is a drug sometimes used to increase fertility in males. It acts like LH hormone increasing test. I used it for about six weeks if my memory serves me. It increased my natural test  more than two times what it was. I went from 300 to 700.  I also believe it helped my physique.  I went for a follow up appointment learning my doctor left the urology group. The next doctor said it was insanity he put me on it. He said while it was used off label to increase fertility in males it was never studied for long time usage.  He said  it's use in a very small numbers of males study showed an increase in brain tumors. He told me to stop using it and I have.

That's very true, a lot of guys use the TRT excuse to mask their use of large amounts of AAS.  I know a bunch of guys who do this as well.  When i first started using AAS i never talked about it to anyone, but these days i'd rather be up front with people.  I think the bodybuilding industry in general is a bunch of BS, from the supplements to drug usage, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.

Clomid shouldn't be used like that, i'm surprised the doctor put you on it.  Lots of general doctors don't understand AAS.  Lucky for me i have a close friend who is an Endocrinologist who has specialized in male hormone replacement for many years.  It's amazing how different his advice is compared to what i read about or talk to friends about.  Many doctors do not keep up with current TRT methods and stick to what they learned in school, which might have been 20 years ago.  Or as IroNat pointed out, they might not be the best and brightest doctor.  My GP knows i'm on TRT and doesn't disagree with what my Endo has me on, but he's more open minded to TRT than most others.  I see him every 60 days to get labs done and he monitors everything.

My brother used to work for an insurance company that supported malpractice medical claims for doctors.  It was insane how many doctors have very serious claims against them for doing very stupid things to patients.  There used to be a way to look up claims on doctors, but i haven't tried in a long time.

IroNat

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2020, 12:23:59 PM »

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2020, 01:13:46 PM »
Fauci.
If he finished 1st, we are all screwed.

IroNat

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2020, 04:05:50 PM »
If he finished 1st, we are all screwed.
He was first in his class at Cornell Med School.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2020, 03:53:59 AM »
He was first in his class at Cornell Med School.
He couldn't get into Harvard?

The Scott

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2020, 06:26:46 AM »
He couldn't get into Harvard?

Height requirement.  You must be at least 4 feet to enter the campus...I'll be in hell for that. ;D

Rmj11

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2022, 11:48:41 AM »
High volume with reasonable intensity. Hit type routines end up over stressing the cns leading to longer periods of recovery which isn't necessary.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2022, 12:55:13 AM »
High volume with reasonable intensity. Hit type routines end up over stressing the cns leading to longer periods of recovery which isn't necessary.
I agree.

Wiggs

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2023, 07:02:27 AM »
HIT ALL. DAY. LONG . 
7

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2023, 01:41:34 AM »
HIT ALL. DAY. LONG .
All day long is the opposite of HIT.

IroNat

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2023, 05:19:50 AM »

beakdoctor

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2023, 09:39:09 PM »
Do whichever you enjoy the most.

Your body will respond to stimulus.

The problem with HIT is it's mostly bro-science. Sure it sounds great in theory. But that's where it ends.

It's actually demonstratably true for Cardiovascular exercise.  HIIT works for cardiovascular. Lungs and heart. VO2 max . But the same is not true for hypertrophy OR strength. Muscle growth and muscular strength don't follow the same pathophysiology as cardiovascular improvements.

You certainly can respond to HIT for muscular development but, ironically,  it's not necessarily optimal.

Also if you're drug free and not planning on becoming a bodybuilder, it doesn't matter. Your potential will be reached within a few months.

If you're older work smarter, lighter weight, full range of motion, controlled movement, little rest between sets.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2023, 01:13:58 AM »
Do whichever you enjoy the most.

Your body will respond to stimulus.

The problem with HIT is it's mostly bro-science. Sure it sounds great in theory. But that's where it ends.

It's actually demonstratably true for Cardiovascular exercise.  HIIT works for cardiovascular. Lungs and heart. VO2 max . But the same is not true for hypertrophy OR strength. Muscle growth and muscular strength don't follow the same pathophysiology as cardiovascular improvements.

You certainly can respond to HIT for muscular development but, ironically,  it's not necessarily optimal.

Also if you're drug free and not planning on becoming a bodybuilder, it doesn't matter. Your potential will be reached within a few months.

If you're older work smarter, lighter weight, full range of motion, controlled movement, little rest between sets.
People don't want to accept the natural training potential fact you stated. They want to believe in endless growth.

Rmj11

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2023, 06:24:51 AM »
One set eh?  Sure, if you already put in years of training and taking roids so you can generate the intensity needed, and if you want to end up with injuries like Yates and methzer did.

Sorry, Arnold's methods evolved from earlier proven methods such as the 3x10 and 5x5's used by natural trainers. Arnold evolved it to 6 x10 and 6x6 to give a moderate weight routine with short rests between sets and a heavier off season routine with 2 minute rests between sets.

Now today, science has proven that chasing the pump forces the muscles to their size limit and then cause recruitment of satellite cells which results in more muscle fibers to pump up.

NO one is going to get 20" biceps doing one set of barbell curls.....so get real.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2023, 01:13:47 AM »
One set eh?  Sure, if you already put in years of training and taking roids so you can generate the intensity needed, and if you want to end up with injuries like Yates and Mentzer did.

Sorry, Arnold's methods evolved from earlier proven methods such as the 3x10 and 5x5's used by natural trainers. Arnold evolved it to 6 x10 and 6x6 to give a moderate weight routine with short rests between sets and a heavier off season routine with 2 minute rests between sets.

Now today, science has proven that chasing the pump forces the muscles to their size limit and then cause recruitment of satellite cells which results in more muscle fibers to pump up.

NO one is going to get 20" biceps doing one set of barbell curls.....so get real.
All the bodybuilders from 1890 to 1975 trained with volume not because they used trial and error and proved their program's effectiveness but because they weren't geniuses like Mentzer and Jones. ::)

Rmj11

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Re: Volume or HIT? Yes, I bought it up.
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2023, 01:52:17 AM »
All the bodybuilders from 1890 to 1975 trained with volume not because they used trial and error and proved their program's effectiveness but because they weren't geniuses like Mentzer and Jones. ::)

😂😂😂😂

Exactly. Hit sucks.