Author Topic: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?  (Read 17090 times)

WOOO

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2006, 02:46:05 AM »
-Who mentioned 1/2 reps other than you? Congrats on yet another misinterpretation!  ;)

-Partials can help development big time; never heard of box squats? Blanket statements like yours make you look like a beginner.

i think his point was that they will do more for the shoulders and triceps than the chest....

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2006, 04:10:05 AM »
Quote
i think his point was that they will do more for the shoulders and triceps than the chest....
The guy who started the thread said the full reps are doing that.

Do what works, in this case not full ROM.

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2006, 05:07:08 AM »
The guy who started the thread said the full reps are doing that.

Do what works, in this case not full ROM.

i agree in principle....

however, would you agree that then you would be doing an exercise called "partial bench presses" as opposed to "bench presses" which would assume a full ROM?

kinda like my take on "bench pressing" in a smith machine... i call it "Smith machine chest press"

bench pressing is defined by it's competitive mechanics like the clean or the deadlift... variations should use a variation on the name

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2006, 05:13:51 AM »
Quote
however, would you agree that then you would be doing an exercise called "partial bench presses" as opposed to "bench presses" which would assume a full ROM?

kinda like my take on "bench pressing" in a smith machine... i call it "Smith machine chest press"

bench pressing is defined by it's competitive mechanics like the clean or the deadlift... variations should use a variation on the name

No, for the following reasons:

1/ Partials are generally shorter portions of ROMS, which is not the same as removing a couple of inches of movement from the top or bottom of the ROM, which can increase effectiveness and reduce injury potential (as in avoinding the very bottom part of a preacher curl both to avoid tendon stress and to avoid the sticking point at the bottom that will prevent the weight from being lifted through the rest of the ROM). Removing a few inches of ROM is more similar to cheats done with reasonable form.

2/ I used to follow the book which calls for full ROMs & specific exercises ie benches. Nice waste of time if it's not as effective and/or injurious - find out what is felt in the muscle through trial & error.. Not what the book says..experiment with different ROMs, different angles, variations on an exercise involving cables, DBs or machines.

3/ Smith machine's a good example: for some exercises it might be more effective, for others it's not as good. Case by case, as in Yates using it instead of free weights for front squats.

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2006, 05:19:13 AM »
No, for the following reasons:

1/ Partials are generally shorter portions of ROMS, which is not the same as removing a couple of inches of movement from the top or bottom of the ROM, which can increase effectiveness and reduce injury potential (as in avoinding the very bottom part of a preacher curl both to avoid tendon stress and to avoid the sticking point that will prevent the weight from being lifted through the rest of the ROM).

what i was saying is that real bench presses use a full ROM... i don't care if you like a different ROM... fine... you are just doing partial bench presses... not bench presses

2/ I used to follow the book which calls for full ROMs & specific exercises ie benches. Nice waste of time - experiment, find out what is felt in the muscle.. Not what the book says..experiment with different ROMs, different angles, variations on an exercise involving cables, DBs or machines.

what book are you talking about?.... i have been lifting for over 15 years and have tried many things... that's not what i am talking about....
all i said was by definition a bench press entails a full ROM...
any other variation MIGHT BE BETTER/MORE COMFORTABLE/EASIER/HARDER... but it cannot be called bench pressing

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2006, 05:21:05 AM »
Quote
you are just doing partial bench presses... not bench presses

You're bogged down with doing the "real" version when in fact a lot of BBs wouldn't qualify. No one cares. They're not really partials though. Besides which, powerlifters find that improvement in shorter partials training increases their "official" full range ROMs.


Quote
all i said was by definition a bench press entails a full ROM...
any other variation MIGHT BE BETTER/MORE COMFORTABLE/EASIER/HARDER... but it cannot be called bench pressing

Again, fine. Are you BBing or powerlifting? Why so concerned with doing the "official" version? And if you are, it's still a variation of "bench press" if this matters.. ::)

Worrying about doing the "exact" version's more of a macho thing to grow out of. "I bench pressed 400 today"...

http://www.musclenet.com/partialreptraining.htm

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/68

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2006, 05:29:38 AM »
i am so right...


Wikipedia agrees with me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bench_press#Execution


Using a closed grip, (palms away from the face) the hands should be equally spaced and balanced shoulder-width on the bar. The forearms should be vertical (90°) to the ground with the elbows directly under the wrists. While keeping one's feet planted on the ground and gripping the barbell, inhale deeply, and slowly lift the bar off the rack and lower until it almost touches the sternum. After a one second pause, slowly but powerfully exhale while puposefully raising the weight back up away from the chest until the arms are once again fully extended. Never completely lock out your arms at the top of the exercise as this exerts undue pressure on the elbow joints and takes the focus away from developing the Pectoral Muscles. Concentrate on a slow and purposeful controlled up and down movement of the bar and avoid allowing the bar to drift towards your head or feet. Contrary to popular belief you do not need to lift a large amount of weight to develop a nice powerful-looking chest. It is far better to use a lighter, more controllable weight to execute 8-10 slow repititions with correct form than it is to perform 3-5 poorly executed repititions with too heavy a weightload. Generally, if you are having difficulty performing over 6-8 repetitions, or if you are having difficulty controlling the bar from wavering, then you are trying to lift too much weight. Conversely, if you can perform more than 12 repetitions with a given weight during a single set, then the weight is too light and it is time to add weight to the bar. It is strongly advised that you implement a spotter when starting out, or if lifting very heavy weight.


pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2006, 05:40:43 AM »
1/ Wikipedia's useful but not the last word.

2/ WTF are you proving with "i'm so right"? hahahaahahahaahah Who cares what the strict defintion of benches is, that's not the gist of this thread!

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2006, 05:42:56 AM »
1/ Wikipedia's useful but not the last word.

2/ WTF are you proving with "i'm so right"? hahahaahahahaahah Who cares what the strict defintion of benches is, that's not the gist of this thread!

but it WAS the gist of my point...


c'mon grampa... admit that i was right about what i was pointing out.... then we can move on!!   ;D

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2006, 05:48:53 AM »
And your point is that there's only one "official" version? No one cares, least of all the pros who don't follow your definition.

This thread, his experience & what others have said only confirms that you're the old guy here in your approach gramps.  ;D

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2006, 06:59:40 AM »
This thread, his experience & what others have said only confirms that you're the old guy here in your approach gramps.  ;D

hahahaha... kiss my wrinkly old ass!

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2006, 07:04:49 AM »
Quote
hahahaha... kiss my wrinkly old ass!

Sounds kinda gay.

With your expertise, consider..

WOOO

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2006, 07:10:23 AM »
Another excellent point.  ::)

With your expertise you should stick to this..

i thought we we're going to stick to the original topic pumpmeister?

when you veer off onto derivative subjects like that you really make your self look like a beginner  ;D

so back to the topic... you were saying i was right and you were wrong...















oh by the way... i bear a message from the X... everyone is fascinated with the idea of vaporizing weed...

come tell us more

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2006, 07:13:43 AM »
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i bear a message from the X... everyone is fascinated with the idea of vaporizing weed...

come tell us more

I think everything's been covered; what's left except to put one to use?

Around 2 weeks from now for anyone with cheap air fare and a long-weekend available:
http://www.cannabiscup.com/ht/cancup/

pobrecito

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2006, 09:32:09 AM »
If you want to destroy both of your shoulders....take pumpster's advice ;)

This guy has ruined both of his shoulders with the very advice he preaches....stay away :-X

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2006, 10:07:37 AM »
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If you want to destroy both of your shoulders....take pumpster's advice

This guy has ruined both of his shoulders with the very advice he preaches....stay away

Ass-backwards; trying to spare others problems, idiot.

This guy's MO is to have nothing to actually contribute AKA a troll.

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2006, 10:51:27 AM »
Let's make it a little clearer for all of you out there...

If you want to destroy both of your shoulders....take pumpster's advice ;)

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2006, 10:51:57 AM »
hahhaahahahahahah

My stalker doesn't get that they'll decide for themselves based on common sense.

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2006, 10:55:49 AM »
Yes, common sense says to use a full range of motion in a slow, controlled manner. Not some half ass reps that you and your messed up shoulders (and god knows whatelse you have messed up) advise. You are probably the loser you see in gym doing quarter squats because you don't want to mess up your knees :-\

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2006, 11:05:39 AM »
One-dimensional & predictable point of view. Fortunately, 2-3 times the size of this dweeb  aren't quite so ignorant. Powerlifters using these techniques for years laugh at this ignorance. Most BBs, some dating back to 60s training, also believe in this.

What i've suggested is a way to prevent injuries caused by full movements, dumbass.

What else to expect from someone with a funny name? hahahaahahahahahh

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2006, 11:14:09 AM »
One-dimensional & predictable point of view. Fortunately, 2-3 times the size of this dweeb  aren't quite so ignorant. Powerlifters using these techniques for years laugh at this ignorance. Most BBs, some dating back to 60s training, also believe in this.

What else to expect from someone with a funny name? hahahaahahahahahh

Last time I checked this is BODYBUILDING...not powerlifting...chalk upon another point for me.

Most BBs agree with you?? Like who? Please back up that statment.

Last time I checked...Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Jay Cutler...they ALL bench(ed) to the chest.

Pumpster OWNED again :-*

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2006, 11:47:29 AM »
Quote
Last time I checked this is BODYBUILDING...not powerlifting...chalk upon another point for me.

Keeping score-kidlike.

Anyone who thinks BB and powerlifting principles don't have some overlap is truly dense.

Lots of BBs use partials. Gunter's just one. Too many others.

He must be living in Afghanistan not to know this. Glad i could help. ;)

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2006, 12:23:11 PM »
i am so right...

Wikipedia agrees with me


Not getting in the middle of this one, BUT, ANYONE can post anything on Wikipedia which may or may not be accurate information. ;)

Ok.  Carry on.  :-*


:

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2006, 07:31:35 PM »
Keeping score-kidlike.

Anyone who thinks BB and powerlifting principles don't have some overlap is truly dense.

Lots of BBs use partials. Gunter's just one. Too many others.

He must be living in Afghanistan not to know this. Glad i could help. ;)

This is basically confirmation that Pumpster knows I owned him.

Thanks for playing old man. Why don't you take this time to go ice your shoulders ;)

pumpster

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Re: Flat Bench Press - is full depth really necessary?
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2006, 07:58:55 PM »
Sounds like you want to do it for me by the way you're following me around. hahahahahaahahhahahahaah

I'm in my 40s BTW kid; if you think that's old you're more of a juvenile than you sound. Had a good chest/back workout today. Have never used/needed ice but if i did i would say so.  ;D