Author Topic: Belichyk  (Read 15442 times)

RUDE BUOY

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2007, 09:43:05 PM »
I agree, he did play poorly. but even when he played like shit, and was not on his game, when it mattered most, when it was all on the line, He got it done. he set it on his shoulders and shredded the ball downfield, then scored.
that td pass in the fourth proved how valuable he was not to many other qbs could make that pass under the same situation

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2007, 09:48:12 PM »
I respect Manning, he is a phenomenal qb. When he does finally get his ring, ( which might be this year) he will have the one thing that he is missing. But, lets not let being tired of seeing the same old guy winning, diminish what he has done in the last six years. The statistics Brady has mirror those of Joe Montana. Hell, he has the best playoff winning percentage off all time. The guy deserves his credit, that is all I am saying.

People who say things like "it is the system" are often jealous, or ignorant to what they are saying. You always hear guys like Dan Marino/Ron Jaworski/Boomer/Salsberry/Montana/Steve Young and co giving Brady his due.Calling him the most clutch qb next to Montana, some say the most clutch qb ever. Which he has earned the right to be compared to/called. Then you hear some random scrub, hollering some junk they know nothing about ,refering to Brady. Bellicheck is a defensive genious. He had spent ALL his previous years as a defensive coordinator or coach, coaching defensive players. All one has to do is look at a the pats when they had Bledsoe as qb, or refer to the 3 losing years Bellichick had in Clevelend with Vin Testa and co to get the proof the system angle is an excuse, and a cop out. Not to mention, the mountains of brilliant performances Brady has had during the "dynasty" era he helped create. You do not get multiple superbowl mvp's and wins without some serious talent. Hell , he led the NFL is passing last year with a handful of recievers that never even make the top 30 in the leauge. The guy had over 4100 yards and a 90 plus rating with no one even resembaling a top guy. That team suffered massive injurys last year. Same story this year. The man is a leader, he battled his team to where they are right now. At one point in the season the injury report looked like a frekin laundry list.

The best proof is in the pudding. What Brady has done in the last six years is all there on tape. The guy has nothing to prove, and the haters will always find a way to cut him down. If you cannot explain how a person does something amazing, you need any excuse. Hell even if you can prove with historical evidence the system claim is a load of shit, they would never admit it anyway.

They always need a reason why another can win time after time when there qb with all the best of everything ( including pedigree) could not with countless chances.


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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2007, 12:11:53 AM »
Brady has the intangibles, he knows how to get the job done.  Though I think he has better talent around him than people realize.  Troy Brown while not great always has been able to maKE the play!!!!      Defense is always good with exception of last yr with injuries.  The coach can only put the system in, it is up to the players to make the plays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2007, 12:26:43 AM »
Brady has the intangibles, he knows how to get the job done.  Though I think he has better talent around him than people realize.  Troy Brown while not great always has been able to maKE the play!!!!      Defense is always good with exception of last yr with injuries.  The coach can only put the system in, it is up to the players to make the plays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D


Yes, he does have a host of great players around him. My point was, as great as they are they are/where not anything close to the weapons Manning has in Wayne, Harrison and Clark. The offensive power he had all those years he got pwned by Brady and the pats. Lets not forget, The pats had no running game at all for a big chunk of those huge wins.The colts had the edge on top off those big time recievers and play makers.

The 2003 colts offense was a fucking juggernaut. They got held to three by a ridiculous defensive performance, but that offense was as high powered as ever.

Not taking anything away from manning here. The guy has my respect and is one of the greatest ever. Just making some legit points.

If anyone has some reliance on a system it is him. he is surrounded by the best players and weapons year after year, but when it gets shifted on to his sole shoulders he has to this point folded like a lawn chair. That may change this year, but it will not change the last 6.

americanbulldog

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2007, 12:52:55 AM »
I hate to admit it, but the metrosexual from Michigan is clutch.  I haven't seen a player like him since that guy from Notre Dame that had a huge Cotton Bowl and went on to win 4 Superbowls.  Bill would not have won without Tom and vice versa. 

Fury

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2007, 05:42:14 AM »
Put Peyton in Brady's position and I bet he wins just as many SB's. Same with the rest of the elite QB's in the league. Not some mediocre scrub like Bledsoe.  ::)

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2007, 07:09:49 AM »
Slightly off-topic, but IMO the standard of QB seems to be higher than ever.

In the mid-90's, another great era, Aikman, Kelly, Young, Favre(!), Marino, Elway, et al.

But still, a guy like Aikman was overrated IMO, and I think Marino was too, although he was good, but not THAT good, had good longetivity though.

Elway, Young and Favre walked the line though IMO. Still, today seems like almost half the teams have an outstanding QB.



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body88

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2007, 08:13:31 AM »
Put Peyton in Brady's position and I bet he wins just as many SB's. Same with the rest of the elite QB's in the league. Not some mediocre scrub like Bledsoe.  ::)

First off, in his prime Bledsoe was not a scrub.He also led the pats to the superbowl in 97, but we will get to tall that later in this post.

I bet Ne does not win a superbowl with Manning as the qb. Manning could not win one with better talent around him. What makes you think he can win one with less? What makes you think the pats players would respect a guy notorious for throwing his players under the bus when things do not work out? Throwing his arms up in disgust when a teamate botches a play. Do not start either, all those years Brady and Manning squared off Manning had a massive advantage on the offensive side of the ball. In 2003 the pats where pegged to have absolutely no shot against that beast of an offense. Not a sole gave them a chance, then Manning choked and the savage pats d held them to three points. Brady went to work and the rest is history It was the same story time after time. You act like Bellichiks "System" is some big secret that every other coach in the league does not know about,studied or used in some way. All the nfl coaches learned the game of football with the same information.The NFL is a copy cat league. Everyone emulates or uses variations of things that win. Bill's system is variations of things everyone knows about. There is no big secret to it. Again, Bellicheck is a defensive genius, yes. Even then, it is all variations of things all coaches and coordinates know about. Bill just happens to be the best at what he does. It has been six years now. Dungy is a great coach, with a great system, Just watch the 2001 - 2006 seasons. The problem was never the system or talent, it was  getting outplayed. Or manning folding under pressure. At the time Bledsoe played for NE , he was far from a scrub. He had just inked a huge deal over an extended period of time. He was the first overall pick in the draft. At the time when he started for NE he was thought of in a different light then he is now. He was in his prime. Lets talk about manning in 6 years,if he is still playing. Then equate his skills to when he is playing over the hill and past his prime. Drew has pretty good career numbers, look them up. You claimed to stick any "decent" QB in his spot and you get the same result. Bledsoe was better then "decent", at the time he was in NE. He led them to a superbpwl in 97, but you didnt know that. He had over 4000 yards passing in 96. But you said "decent" so we will stick with that. Further more, back in Clevelend Billichick had "decent" nfl qb's and his system tanked there for three years. He is a genius, but players need the ability to make it happen. You are better then decent if you are still starting in the NFL 300 years after your prime, like Bledsoe is/was.

Stop ignoring the facts, Manning has choked every single time all the pressure was layed square on him. If anyone is reliant on a system it is him. When it comes down to do or die, and all the marbles rest on him, he has failed for years on end. With all his weapons and all his big time receivers. When it is up to him, and the system cannot help him, he chokes.Time after time after time. While Brady has not. Brady has all the mvps and rings to prove it. All the huge playoff performances and wins when it was all rested on his shoulders. All the stats/videos of games where it happened are there mang.  Everything I said occured. You are speculating, even then all the proof points against what you are saying.

If you would like to debate something, stop ignoring what you said, or the facts. Stop making claims without facts to back them up.  There is mountains of evidence against your claim. Yet, none to support it. Just look at Brady's resume and stats. Hell, pull the games up on youtube. Lets see some proof.There is no one more clutch, well besides Montana. Keep the huge stats and white uniforms, well take the clutch guy who gets the job done and wins superbowls. I think you are  jelous, like you admited  in another post I have saved. So, you say anything to discredit or cut Brady down. We all see that by now. Holds true to most anything you do not agree with. You make statments, but ignore the pile of evidence that refute's every word you type. Ignore all Brady has accomplished and make wild claims! You are one sided with arguments.

BTW, I think Manning is one of the greatest qb's ever, who could get his ring this year. So save me the manning basher accusations. Stating facts and stats that actually happened is not hating. I made the comment for pure skill, manning is second to none.


Some of Drew's numbers in NE



1996 New England 16   83.7 373 623 59.9 4086 255.4 6.6 27 15   24 27 1.7 1.1 0   30 190   9   
 
1997 New England 16   87.7 314 522 60.2 3706 231.6 7.1 28 15   28 55 3.4 2.0 0   30 258   4
 
1998 New England 14   80.9 263 481 54.7 3633 259.5 7.6 20 14   28 44 3.1 1.6 0   36 295   9
 
1999 New England 16   75.6 305 539 56.6 3985 249.1 7.4 19 21   42 101 6.3 2.4 0   55 342     

 2000 New England 16   77.3 312 531 58.8 3291 205.7 6.2 17 13   47 158 9.9 3.4 2   45 264   9 
 
2001 New England 2   75.3 40 66 60.6 400 200.0 6.1 2 2   5 18 9.0 3.6 0   5 21   1 0   
 
2002 Buffalo 16   86.0 375 610 61.5 4359 272.4 7.1 24 15   27 67 4.2 2.5 2   54 369   10 4


body88

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2007, 08:27:06 AM »
I hate to admit it, but the metrosexual from Michigan is clutch.  I haven't seen a player like him since that guy from Notre Dame that had a huge Cotton Bowl and went on to win 4 Superbowls.  Bill would not have won without Tom and vice versa. 


I agree.

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2007, 09:41:17 AM »
Exactly. Stick any decent QB in that system and I guarantee they win.

There's four possibilities for someone having this point of view.

1. You're so jealous of Brady and the Patriots success that it has blinded them from the truth.


2. You just hate all things Brady and or Patriots. Haters hate for numerous reasons, most likely that Brady and the Patriots consistently beat their team. The         
    reason doesn't really matter, it's still pure unadulterated hate.


3. You're too stupid to actually know anything about the NFL and what it takes to win.


4. You're a troll just looking for reactions.


It doesn't matter which one fits you, the point is you're wrong, dead wrong. The only team in the entire NFL that wouldn't sell their soles to the devil to have Brady leading their team is the Colts and I'm still not convinced they wouldn't trade up to Brady from Manning. Given the chance to trade Manning for Brady I'd say it's 50/50 they trade up to the proven winner. That's a fact.

body88

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2007, 09:44:43 AM »
There's four possibilities for someone having this point of view.

1. You're so jealous of Brady and the Patriots success that it has blinded them from the truth.


2. You just hate all things Brady and or Patriots. Haters hate for numerous reasons, most likely that Brady and the Patriots consistently beat their team. The         
    reason doesn't really matter, it's still pure unadulterated hate.


3. You're too stupid to actually know anything about the NFL and what it takes to win.


4. You're a troll just looking for reactions.


It doesn't matter which one fits you, the point is you're wrong, dead wrong. The only team in the entire NFL that wouldn't sell their soles to the devil to have Brady leading their team is the Colts and I'm still not convinced they wouldn't trade up to Brady from Manning. Given the chance to trade Manning for Brady I'd say it's 50/50 they trade up to the proven winner. That's a fact.


Haha same people are still calling the world flat. There could not be more evidence to destroy a claim, then there is in this situation. It is all there on tape, lol. Best postseason record in history, 3 rings, 2 time sb mvp, lead the leauge in passing and has stats that mirror those of Montana, but he stinks!


Fury

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2007, 09:47:21 AM »
hahahahaha, option #4 seems to fit the bill pretty well "ieffinthatecardio".

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2007, 09:56:36 AM »

Haha same people are still calling the world flat. There could not be more evidence to destroy a claim, then there is in this situation. It is all there on tape, lol. Best postseason record in history, 3 rings, 2 time sb mvp, lead the leauge in passing and has stats that mirror those of Montana, but he stinks!



When all is said and done Brady might go down in history as the best and most clutch QB to ever play the game. Hell, as far as winning goes only Montana and Bradshaw are better.

You know the beauty of it all, he was chosen in the sixth round, that means every team passed him over at least 5 times and some 6 times before he was drafted.

buffbodz

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2007, 11:52:03 AM »

Yep, solid proof. Well that and Brady leading them to 3 superbowls , being 12 and 1 postseason, and winning the superbowl mvp award, twice.

Remember when they signed Belichnyk?  All those questions and his record in Cleavland.  No one thought the Sullivan's were thinking clearly.  Now he's a genius.  Billy Sullivan saw something that no one else saw.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2007, 12:20:35 PM »
Remember when they signed Belichnyk?  All those questions and his record in Cleavland.  No one thought the Sullivan's were thinking clearly.  Now he's a genius.  Billy Sullivan saw something that no one else saw.

Kraft signed Bellichick. Are you talking about when Parcells was coaching here and Bellichick was his coordinator? Didn't Kiam bring in Parcells?

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2007, 01:39:10 PM »
Kraft signed Bellichick. Are you talking about when Parcells was coaching here and Bellichick was his coordinator? Didn't Kiam bring in Parcells?

Kraft and Parcells hated one another. Billichick was the buffer who kept the peace. Kraft loved Bellichick, he was the one who coaxed him into coaching the pats.

Smart move since Billichick is the reason Parcells has ever won anything. I never liked Parcells style of coaching. He has won nothing without Bill by his side. While Billicheck has won three rings on his own... Hmmmmmmm.

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2007, 01:42:02 PM »
I bet if you go look back at Bledsoe's career, he has been one of the most sacked quarterbacks wherever he's gone. Sure he made it to the 97 Super Bowl, but he floundered the entire game.

Fury

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2007, 01:47:40 PM »
Kraft and Parcells hated one another. Billichick was the buffer who kept the peace. Kraft loved Bellichick, he was the one who coaxed him into coaching the pats.

Smart move since Billichick is the reason Parcells has ever won anything. I never liked Parcells style of coaching. He has won nothing without Bill by his side. While Billicheck has won three rings on his own... Hmmmmmmm.

hahahaha, could you be any more of a fanboy? Unreal. So now Parcells is a terrible coach, eh?  ::)

body88

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2007, 01:50:23 PM »
hahahaha, could you be any more of a fanboy? Unreal. So now Parcells is a terrible coach, eh?  ::)

No not at all, I am actually quoting a book. Parcells is an abusive coach. I was never a fan of that.

Bill won his rings with Billichick running his defense in NY. When they seperated Bill did nothing and Billicheck set new standerds. Just a true statement. If you do not like my posts do not respond to them.




body88

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2007, 01:52:44 PM »
I bet if you go look back at Bledsoe's career, he has been one of the most sacked quarterbacks wherever he's gone. Sure he made it to the 97 Super Bowl, but he floundered the entire game.

Here are the numbers Kieth, check them out.






1996 New England 16   83.7 373 623 59.9 4086 255.4 6.6 27 15   24 27 1.7 1.1 0   30 190   9   

1997 New England 16   87.7 314 522 60.2 3706 231.6 7.1 28 15   28 55 3.4 2.0 0   30 258   4

 
1998 New England 14   80.9 263 481 54.7 3633 259.5 7.6 20 14   28 44 3.1 1.6 0   36 295   9
 
1999 New England 16   75.6 305 539 56.6 3985 249.1 7.4 19 21   42 101 6.3 2.4 0   55 342     

 2000 New England 16   77.3 312 531 58.8 3291 205.7 6.2 17 13   47 158 9.9 3.4 2   45 264   9 
 
2001 New England 2   75.3 40 66 60.6 400 200.0 6.1 2 2   5 18 9.0 3.6 0   5 21   1 0   
 
2002 Buffalo 16   86.0 375 610 61.5 4359 272.4 7.1 24 15   27 67 4.2 2.5 2   54 369   10 4

Fury

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2007, 01:55:25 PM »
No not at all, I am actually quoting a book. Parcells is an abusive coach. I was never a fan of that.

Bill won his rings with Billichick running his defense in NY. When they seperated Bill did nothing and Billicheck set new standerds. Just a true statement. If you do not like my posts do not respond to them.





And where do you think Bellichick learned all his shit from? It just came to him in a dream I suppose.  ::)

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2007, 02:02:35 PM »
And where do you think Bellichick learned all his shit from? It just came to him in a dream I suppose.  ::)

Billichick's father was one of the greatest scouts to ever live. He was also one of the greatest assistant coaches ever to be in the game of football. Billicheck has been involved with coaching/football since he was about 5 years old.

Billicheck was Bills defensive coordinator. Bill sought him out and brought him in. If anything Parcells learned from Billichick. Billichick obviously had guidance from great coaches over the years. Long before he ever met Bill Parcells.He had many jobs breaking down film and coaching (with other teams college and pro) before He ever went to the Giants. You think Bill's first gig was in NY with the giants?

Do some research.

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2007, 02:08:53 PM »
Billichick's father was one of the greatest scouts to ever live. He was also one of the greatest assistant coaches ever to be in the game. Billicheck has been involved with coaching/football since he was about 5 years old.

Billicheck was Bills defensive coordinator. Bill sought him out and brought him in. If anything Parcells learned from Billichick. Billichick obviously had guidance from great coaches over the years. Long before he ever met Bill Parcells. You think he first gig was in NY with the giants?

Do some research.

Good point, Belichick's father wrote a very detailed book on scouting that is well respected. Belichick was learning about football when he was a toddler, football is literally in his blood. He's had many influential football people in his life and clearly Parcells is one of them.

The thing is Belichick surpassed Parcells. The pupil outgrew the teacher. When it's all said and done Belichick will probably be considered the greatest modern day football coach to have ever coached and NFL team.

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2007, 02:09:32 PM »
Payton wouldn't win in NE.  The great thing about Greg Brady is his ability to make the right reads, and either eat the ball or take the sack.  He doesn't commit drive killing mistakes.  He has a weak arm, is marginally athletic, but has a freaking computer brain, and can assimilate information at an incredible rate, and make good decisions.  

Payton, on the other hand, can't do ANYTHING against the 3-4 defense.  As much credit as he gets for being so smart, and able to play call on the spot, he still can't see where the pressure comes from.  Look back at the last six years and see the teams that take Indy apart, they all run the 3-4.  Payton can blame protection problems, but Brady seemed to deal with Pittsburghs 3-4 quiet well in 2001, 2004.  Paton was killed by them in the divisional round, and was taken out of the unbeaten ranks by a San Diego team that runs the same defense.  In 03, Payton, again couldn't handle the Pats 3-4 D and Indy went home once again.

I want Indy to win, (Tony Dungy deserves one), but I don't think Payton will clutch up.  Mannings are great at stats, but they haven't won anything, yet.  

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Re: Belichyk
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2007, 02:14:59 PM »
Good point, Belichick's father wrote a very detailed book on scouting that is well respected. Belichick was learning about football when he was a toddler, football is literally in his blood. He's had many influential football people in his life and clearly Parcells is one of them.

The thing is Belichick surpassed Parcells. The pupil outgrew the teacher. When it's all said and done Belichick will probably be considered the greatest modern day football coach to have ever coached and NFL team.


I believe parcells contacted Billichick while Parcels was still at navy, but it never panned out. I am sure Billichick learned a lot from Parcels in his time with him ( when he was not taking his insults)  Billichick genius was already developed long before he went to the Giants. Hell , when Billichick was in his early 20's  he was the most sought after guy to break down film in the NFL.

Maybe my point of Billichick learning little from Bill was a little extreme ;)