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MKULTRA

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muscleman-2013:
Senator KENNEDY.
I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If
we could start with Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the
safe houses in either San Francisco or New York?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I know of no safe house in San Francisco.

Senator KENNEDY.
How about in New York?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I knew of one facility that was established there, but I
didn't know anything of its operation.

Senator KENNEDY.
Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on
unwitting persons in San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
No.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, we have a classified document here that was
provided by the Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program
and I would appreciate it if you would look--

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I think the misunderstanding arises because I was
project officer.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, would you take a look at that?

[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]

Mr. GOLDMAN.
This document as it states is correct. However, my--

Senator KENNEDY.
That document is correct?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my--

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan
Hall.

Senator KENNEDY.
To whom was that?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
To the individual whose name was listed at the top of
that document.

Senator KENNEDY.
And you knew that he was running the project in
San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.

Senator KENNEDY.
All right.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of
actually what he was doing, because there would be other things involved.

I did receive--

Senator KENNEDY.
What were you doing?

-52-

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts
that ever were turned in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to
see that everything was run all right. There was no illegal use of funds as
far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.

Senator KENNEDY.
So even though the Agency document indicates that
you were a monitor for the program, one of the few monitors of that
particular program which you mentioned for San Francisco and Mill
Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that
the moneys were handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know
what's done or what he did do in conjunction with other people.

Senator KENNEDY.
Were you responsible for the disbursement of all
the funds?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was responsible for turning over the check to him.

Senator KENNEDY.
And what did you know of the program itself?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
The only thing I knew of the program was what he
furnished us in terms of receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or
concern myself in that.

Senator KENNEDY.
You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a
classified document -- but you wrote a rather substantive review of the
program in May of 1963, talking about the experiments, the factual data
that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the necessity
of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various
programs, the efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound
to me like someone who is only--

Mr. GOLDMAN.
Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read
this I would certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.

Senator KENNEDY.
I am trying to gather what your role was. You've
indicated first of all that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe
house in New York; now we find out that you're the carrier for the
resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now that the
CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier,
and here we have just one document, and there are many others that talk
about the substance of that program with your name on it and I am just
trying to find out exactly what role you were playing.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
The only thing I can tell you about this and I am
drawing completely on my memory is that this individual who was in
charge out there conducted these things and reported them back to the
Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work
that they had done.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, that document covers more than receipts.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out
there.

Senator KENNEDY.
It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
"A number of covert"--

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document,
and I don't know why, quite frankly, but it relates to the substance
of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I
am not interested in you trying to review for us now what is in the
document, but I think it would be unfortunate if we were left with the
opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of
the program. And what we're interested in is the substance of the program.
We have the recent documents that were provided by the Agency, which
do indicate that you were at least involved in the substance, and I'm just
trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can
remember.

Senator KENNEDY.
But you can't remember anything.

The_Iron_Disciple:
This shit is old news.

muscleman-2013:

--- Quote from: The_Iron_Disciple on October 23, 2014, 03:09:07 AM ---This shit is old news.



--- End quote ---

Yeah I'm sure most getbiggers are well versed in the Church Hearings.

The_Iron_Disciple:

--- Quote from: muscleman-2013 on October 23, 2014, 03:23:52 AM ---Yeah I'm sure most getbiggers are well versed in the Church Hearings.

--- End quote ---

I doubt they are. And I highly doubt they care, anyways.

Papper:
I had MK Ultra

It was one of the coolest Mortal Kombat installations

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