Author Topic: Civil religious discussion  (Read 60693 times)

IroNat

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2019, 12:43:24 PM »
As the mythology goes, he did create us with a sinless nature (I think), but while Adam and Eve were chilling in the Garden of Eden, he gave them but one rule that he knew beforehand they would break. Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Apparently having knowledge back then was a bad thing. A talking serpent convinced Eve who convinced Adam to eat the fruit and now we all have to burn in hell for an eternity unless we buy into the religion and ask Jesus to save us from the hell he created for us. And Adults believe this stuff... it's truly amazing, you can't make this stuff up!...well, maybe you can...  :)

You can't argue with the facts.

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2019, 12:46:18 PM »
You can't argue with the facts.

nope.. sure cant..

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2019, 12:47:32 PM »
As the mythology goes, he did create us with a sinless nature (I think), but while Adam and Eve were chilling in the Garden of Eden, he gave them but one rule that he knew beforehand they would break. Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Apparently having knowledge back then was a bad thing. A talking serpent convinced Eve who convinced Adam to eat the fruit and now we all have to burn in hell for an eternity unless we buy into the religion and ask Jesus to save us from the hell he created for us. And Adults believe this stuff... it's truly amazing, you can't make this stuff up!...well, maybe you can...  :)


🤣😂🤣
Ha Ha Ha - It Really is Totally Amazing That otherwise fairly intelligent Adults would
Believe Such utter Fairytales - I suppose it goes to Show the Gullibility / Vulnerability
Of Humans.
As When it’s Broken Down into Simple Logical Thought & understanding it’s Totally Ridiculous.
 

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2019, 12:50:17 PM »
nope.. sure cant..

Well - Some Clearly Do & Believe we are Wrong & Damned To Hell for Eternity

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2019, 12:54:38 PM »
Well - Some Clearly Do & Believe we are Wrong & Damned To Hell for Eternity

And they certainly have a right to that belief. But when you actually lay out the stories in the bible, it's amazing to me that adults can actually believe they happened. It seems logic is suspended for this. The same people who believe the Old and New Testament will poo poo the Mormon story as ridiculous and obviously fake with a sincere straight face.  

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2019, 12:57:59 PM »
And they certainly have a right to that belief. But when you actually lay out the stories in the bible, it's amazing to me that adults can actually believe they happened. It seems logic is suspended for this. The same people who believe the Old and New Testament will poo poo the Mormon story as ridiculous and obviously fake with a sincere straight face.  

It’s as if it’s some sort of Mind warping / Brainwashing
Because if the stories / tales we’re related to anything else
Those same people would Laugh at them & think they were stupid
And not Believe any of that Nonsense

IroNat

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2019, 01:23:53 PM »
Thomas Aquinas believed it and he was considered very intelligent.

I have Indian physicians who live near me who believe in the thousands of gods of Hinduism.


Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2019, 11:20:12 AM »
It's truly amazing you can write that, and then still believe it. Kudos!

Well everyone knows God is real.  Most just suppress that truth so they can live however they want and convince themselves they aren't accountable to God's laws.

The difference are those that read his word, do what it says, seek his righteousness through salvation in Christ and repent of sin.  These folks know the Holy Spirit of God in powerful, tangible ways and have no more reservations.

Unless of course they again choose to live sinfully and dismiss God again.  It's all about the Holy Spirit and without that most self deceive themselves into believing they understand the word of God.


Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2019, 11:25:00 AM »
He saved us from eternity in hell due to our sinful nature. Because a God as you know if you studied QM is bound by rules and instead of snapping his fingers and saying "You are all cleansed of sin" he had to go through this process involving a pure sacrifice because thats how Gods rolled back then.  

Makes perfect sense to send your son (who is also you) to be brutally tortured by humans you created so that the same humans can be saved from endless torture in a hell that you created.

Sign me up.

I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments.  You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works.  All there for you to seek out.   Public library has tons of material as well.

Of course you are very welcome.

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2019, 08:55:33 PM »
I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments.  You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works.  All there for you to seek out.   Public library has tons of material as well.

Of course you are very welcome.

Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2019, 01:54:22 PM »
Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.

Says the garden variety Bible-quoting atheist.  lol

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2019, 02:46:52 PM »
I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments.  You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works.  All there for you to seek out.   Public library has tons of material as well.

Of course you are very welcome.

Please explain / Answer some of the questions already asked in this thread
And Explain the Anomalies Agnostic has pointed out.

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2019, 02:55:30 PM »
Says the garden variety Bible-quoting atheist.  lol

love the lol at the end... I can hear it in a kind of nervous chuckle

IroNat

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2019, 05:59:26 PM »
God exists.  Just look around you.

How could all this exist if there was no God?

The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.

It's so obvious there is a God.

And He loves you!

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2019, 07:28:43 PM »
love the lol at the end... I can hear it in a kind of nervous chuckle

Nervous about what??  lol 

You should think more like belly laugh.   :)

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2019, 07:43:32 PM »
God exists.  Just look around you.

How could all this exist if there was no God?

The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.

It's so obvious there is a God.

And He loves you!

Solid presentation Ironnat. Impressive

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2019, 12:50:15 AM »
God exists.  Just look around you.

How could all this exist if there was no God?

The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.

It's so obvious there is a God.

And He loves you!


Ahhh yes God created All the Nice Pleasant Bits
All the Nasty Horrible Things is Down to us Humans
And our Bad Choices..... ::)

Of course
🤣😂🤣

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2019, 08:07:53 PM »
Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.

Yep I've learned things from others....I believe we refer to such people as students.

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2019, 02:43:48 AM »

Ahhh yes God created All the Nice Pleasant Bits
All the Nasty Horrible Things is Down to us Humans
And our Bad Choices..... ::)

Of course
🤣😂🤣

It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2019, 05:35:44 AM »
It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?

Yes it is Think we can all agree on that.

As I’ve stated many times before I’m looking for hard irrefutable Proof
A God Exists as There’s a Multitude of purported Gods
No one has Proven or shown conclusive proof - It’s all you have to Believe
/ Have Faith / God works in mysterious ways / Scriptures by unknown writers /
Hand me down tales / Etc Etc
Not one Shred of Hard Factual provable Evidence out of All The Religions,
I’m waiting.........


I respect your mind set so respect Mine - You want to believe Good for you I wish you well
Then do the same to others that don’t believe/ are not convinced.

If court rooms / trials & Medical Drugs Companies Etc operated on the Same Principles
As Religions What Kind of Mess would we all be in.

( Hmmm probably a bigger mess than we’re in Now )

Look forward to you’re reply - At least you are partaking in this thread ( thanks)
Where are the others to offer Facts & Proof ?

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2019, 06:49:44 AM »
Yes it is Think we can all agree on that.

As I’ve stated many times before I’m looking for hard irrefutable Proof
A God Exists as There’s a Multitude of purported Gods
No one has Proven or shown conclusive proof - It’s all you have to Believe
/ Have Faith / God works in mysterious ways / Scriptures by unknown writers /
Hand me down tales / Etc Etc
Not one Shred of Hard Factual provable Evidence out of All The Religions,
I’m waiting.........


I respect your mind set so respect Mine - You want to believe Good for you I wish you well
Then do the same to others that don’t believe/ are not convinced.

If court rooms / trials & Medical Drugs Companies Etc operated on the Same Principles
As Religions What Kind of Mess would we all be in.

( Hmmm probably a bigger mess than we’re in Now )

Look forward to you’re reply - At least you are partaking in this thread ( thanks)
Where are the others to offer Facts & Proof ?

So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.

The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts.  Everyone knows that God is real.  

What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception.  That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.

You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe.  Only one exception in Christianity.  We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection.  Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.

I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross.  Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.

But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness?  It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life.  And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2019, 09:34:07 PM »
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.

The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts.  Everyone knows that God is real.  

What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception.  That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.

You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe.  Only one exception in Christianity.  We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection.  Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.

I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross.  Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.

But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness?  It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life.  And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.

Definitely someone who is beyond reason when it comes to discussing the god belief. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2019, 09:36:19 PM »
It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?

Like Christians  live with accountability?... If you read your bible you would know Christians aren't held accountable for their sins, they are covered in Jesus' blood and god sees them as sinless. Don't you remember the mantra your folks spew? "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven"  So take that accountability argument elsewhere. The entire Christian theology these days is comprised of Christians NOT being held accountable.

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2019, 06:54:56 AM »
Like Christians  live with accountability?... If you read your bible you would know Christians aren't held accountable for their sins, they are covered in Jesus' blood and god sees them as sinless. Don't you remember the mantra your folks spew? "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven"  So take that accountability argument elsewhere. The entire Christian theology these days is comprised of Christians NOT being held accountable.

Oh the accountability argument is fully in tact depsite your "mic drop" post LOL.

This is a perfect example of a perverted thought process that does not want to acknowledge accountability for sin...you know it's wrong yet still you switch evil for good and good for evil.

You fully grasp God's message of salvation, but simply spin it into something immoral....it's transparent and wrong.  Salvation does not equate to a license to sin.  All HAVE sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but only through Jesus Christ are we made whole again....that we are forgiven.

Now, it's good that you bring attention to God's gracious, redemptive, loving work on the cross that's a gift to all that seek his righteousness for their own.  Yes believers in Christ are forgiven of their sins yet told to go forward and sin no more....that is the command....to sin no more.

Although, remember it says in Hebrews that if a person continues on in willful sin despite having the knowledge of God's redemptive work that there no longer remains an advocate before the Father and that judgement will come upon those people for their sins.

I no longer walk in willful sin, but I do sin from time to time and my soul is grieved when I do and I cry out in prayer for forgiveness and repent of that sin and ask for deliverance from that which troubles me.  

Sanctification is a life long process of transformation and learning through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  We are told to perservere to the end as good and faithful servants in Christ.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2019, 09:08:14 AM »
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.

The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts.  Everyone knows that God is real.  

What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception.  That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.

You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe.  Only one exception in Christianity.  We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection.  Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.

I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross.  Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.

But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness?  It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life.  And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.

Thanks for your reply

I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.

I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life..  ::)

There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.