Author Topic: A coupla years and STILL no pictures  (Read 1892 times)

24KT

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A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« on: April 05, 2007, 09:35:12 PM »
This article is a few years old

NEW YORK A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America’s image.

Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of “RAPE and MURDER” and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were “blatantly SADISTIC.”

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ordered the release of certain pictures in a 50-page decision that said terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven they “do not need pretexts for their barbarism.”

The ACLU has sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of an October 2003 lawsuit demanding information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture.

Gen. John Abizaid, commander of U.S. Central Command, said Thursday that releasing the photos would hinder his work against terrorism.

“When we continue to pick at the wound and show the pictures over and over again it just creates the image — a false image — like this is the sort of stuff that is happening anew, and it’s not,” Abizaid said.

[NOTE FROM hapi22@earthlink.net: Who are you going to believe …. General Abizaid or your lying eyes?]

The judge said, however, that “the freedoms that we champion are as important to our success in Iraq and Afghanistan as the guns and missiles with which our troops are armed.”

An ACLU release this afternoon said it was getting 70 photos and three video tapes.

It also said that the government is being given 20 days to appeal.

What is shown on the photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon has blocked from release?

One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images, “I mean, I looked at them last night, and they’re hard to believe.”

They show acts “that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane,” he added.

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of “rape and murder.”

Rumsfeld then commented, “If these are released to the public, obviously it’s going to make matters worse.”

The photos were among thousands turned over by the key “whistleblower” in the scandal, Specialist Joseph M. Darby.

Just a few that were released to the press sparked the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal last year,
and the video images are said to be even more shocking.

“Today’s historic ruling is a step toward ensuring that our government’s leaders are held accountable for the abuse and torture that happened on their watch,” said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero.

“The American public has a right to know what happened in American detention centers, and how our leaders let it occur.”

One Pentagon lawyer has argued that they should not be released because they would only add to the humiliation of the prisoners.

But the ACLU has said the faces of the victims can easily be “redacted.”

To get a sense of what may be shown in these images, one has to go back to press reports from when the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal was still front page news.

This is how CNN reported it on May 8, 2004, in a typical account that day:

“U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed Friday that videos and ‘a lot more pictures’ exist of the abuse of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

“‘If these are released to the public, obviously it’s going to make matters worse,’ Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

‘I mean, I looked at them last night, and they’re hard to believe.’

“The embattled defense secretary fielded sharp and skeptical questions from lawmakers as he testified about the growing prisoner abuse scandal.

A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, sodomized with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses.

“Charges have been brought against seven service members, and investigations into events at the prison continue.

“Military investigators have looked into — or are continuing to investigate — 35 cases of alleged abuse or deaths of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to Army Secretary Les Brownlee.

Two of those cases were deemed homicides, he said.

“‘The American public needs to understand we’re talking about rape and murder here.

“‘We’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,’ Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

‘We’re talking about rape and murder — and some very serious charges.’

“A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse at the prison outside Baghdad says videotapes and photographs show naked detainees, and that groups of men were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped.


Taguba also found evidence of a ‘male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.’

“Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts ‘that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.’”

The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: “Some of the worse that happened that you don’t know about, ok?

Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters,
communications out to their men … .

The women were passing messages saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what’s happened.’

“Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded.

The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling.

The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has.

They are in total terror it’s going to come out.”

Judge Hellerstein said today that publication of the photographs will help to answer questions not only about the unlawful conduct of American soldiers, but about “the command structure that failed to exercise discipline over the troops, and the persons in that command structure whose failures in exercising supervision may make them culpable along with the soldiers who were court-martialed for perpetrating the wrongs.”

w

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2007, 11:20:06 AM »
I can only imagine the terrible things shown on those tapes.


And I imagine that many people here would shrug it off and say it was A-okay.


It's sad how far we've slid in the last 6 years, in terms of moral standing and standards/expectations, thanks to a threat which was never even there.  increible.

Camel Jockey

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 12:17:57 PM »
You hate America! You are a liberal apologist!

Dos Equis

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 12:22:29 PM »
The Mother of all America haters.  At it again.   ::)

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 12:23:55 PM »
All politics aside, what is really perturbing is that people from a supposedly "civilised" place would have the stomach to actually do things like that to another human being. I mean sodomising people, forcing women to strip, forcing people to have sex? I couldn't actually bring myself to ever do that to someone, the same way I couldn't just walk up and kick a baby or something. Anyone who could, or who condones it, has serious mental issues imho.

Camel Jockey

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 12:28:12 PM »
All politics aside, what is really perturbing is that people from a supposedly "civilised" place would have the stomach to actually do things like that to another human being. I mean sodomising people, forcing women to strip, forcing people to have sex? I couldn't actually bring myself to ever do that to someone, the same way I couldn't just walk up and kick a baby or something. Anyone who could, or who condones it, has serious mental issues imho.

But just think how they would treat our soliders! You are a liberal apologist! We know for sure that everyone of them are terrorists!

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2007, 12:36:26 PM »
But just think how they would treat our soliders! You are a liberal apologist! We know for sure that everyone of them are terrorists!

Our?

The US forces who invaded Iraq did not do it *my* name.


Camel Jockey

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 12:37:36 PM »
Our?

The US forces who invaded Iraq did not do it *my* name.



You hate AMERICA, foreigner! Why do you and jag hate America?!  ;D

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 12:39:15 PM »
You hate AMERICA, foreigner! Why do you and jag hate America?!  ;D

Sorry, your post was too daft to enable me to draft a decent response.

Please try again ;D

Camel Jockey

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 12:42:27 PM »
Sorry, your post was too daft to enable me to draft a decent response.

Please try again ;D

People that hate America don't deserve complex posts!!1

ps why do you hate America?

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 12:44:55 PM »
All politics aside, what is really perturbing is that people from a supposedly "civilised" place would have the stomach to actually do things like that to another human being. I mean sodomising people, forcing women to strip, forcing people to have sex? I couldn't actually bring myself to ever do that to someone, the same way I couldn't just walk up and kick a baby or something. Anyone who could, or who condones it, has serious mental issues imho.

Peoples' morals, standards, and expectations have fallen greatly in the last 6 years.

Somehow they believe some 18-year old taleban rifleman (who spent his life fighting the northern alliance) needs torture to talk - even when it was never used to make the most hardcore nazi general or japanese kamikaze fighter talk.

They have blood lust because they have small penises, or because they are confused by world events and consider Bush to be the daddy they can turn over all critical thinking to, and trust his findings.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 12:46:50 PM »
The Mother of all America haters.  At it again.   ::)

In my opinion the people who hate America are the ones who don't mind lowering us to the same level as the Khmer Rouge.
S

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 12:48:05 PM »
People that hate America don't deserve complex posts!!1

ps why do you hate America?

I don't hate anyone or anything.

I do *dislike* rape, sexual deprivation, torture, mean behaviour by anyone of any race, color or creed.


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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 01:07:41 PM »
I don't hate anyone or anything.

I do *dislike* rape, sexual deprivation, torture, mean behaviour by anyone of any race, color or creed.



I was joking.

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2007, 01:10:59 PM »

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2007, 01:53:19 PM »

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2007, 07:07:44 PM »
That American soldier chick must be a kinky beatch.
young hov

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2007, 07:46:57 PM »
In my opinion the people who hate America are the ones who don't mind lowering us to the same level as the Khmer Rouge.

I think it's the ones who do nothing but talk about any and everything we've ever done wrong, without acknowledging all of the tremendous things we do.  This is the greatest country in the history of the world. 

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2007, 08:59:59 PM »
I think it's the ones who do nothing but talk about any and everything we've ever done wrong, without acknowledging all of the tremendous things we do.  This is the greatest country in the history of the world. 


Well I do agree with you about the people who only talk negatively about the United States. 
S

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Re: A coupla years and STILL no pictures
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2007, 09:49:43 PM »
All politics aside, what is really perturbing is that people from a supposedly "civilised" place would have the stomach to actually do things like that to another human being. I mean sodomising people, forcing women to strip, forcing people to have sex? I couldn't actually bring myself to ever do that to someone, the same way I couldn't just walk up and kick a baby or something. Anyone who could, or who condones it, has serious mental issues imho.

Not just sodomizing people, ...but sodomizing little children. When some filth does that to a child in Kansas,
...people want to rip him limb from limb, ...but it's somehow OK to do that to an innocent little boy in Iraq?

That's a sure-fire way to turn him into someone who would gladly make an IED, or grow up hating Americans and wanting to join any group devoted to killing Americans, ...or wanting to strab a device to himself and take out as many Americans as he can in the process.

The little Japanese girl from that famous WWII photo, running naked through the streets of Hiroshima with radiation burns, now calls Canada her home. For the longest time she HATED Americans, ...and I mean HATED. It literally took her decades to rid herself of the hatred she felt for Americans, ...and only did it because she came to the realization that continuing to harbour such hatred was detrimental to herself. I don't know if an innocent little boy subjected to such unecessary, sadistic, brutality at the hands of American military will ever be able to forgive it. And as a youngster, if he survives the war, he'll have many, many years ahead of him to cultivate that hatred, and possibly act on it. Certainly more years ahead of him than the very soldiers who committed those crimes against him. It will be the American children of today & tomorrow who will pay the price for the USA military having conceived such hatred in those children.

Yep, ...there are serious mental issues among military personnel. Much of it induced in order for them to do their job

It's going to turn into a nightmare stateside when many of these guys get back too, because, their benefits have been gutted. Without the proper counselling to come to grips with what they've witnessed / participated in / turned a blind eye to, or a support structure to deal with the inevitable PTSD, many will remain in that psychotic state. How would you love thousands upon thousands of men ill-equipped to function in a civilian environment flooding into every small town, and city across America? I'm sure life would be just cozy living next door to an absolutely psychotic individual, trained to respond with aggression, no stranger to murder, without any moral compass whatsoever? One who is most dangerous both to himself & others at a time when he's finally actually finding his way back to humanity.

There are no winners in war, ...only spoils to be divvied up.
w