How Much Of History Is Likely A Lie?

[King Shizzo]

Even as a history buff, I have to remain skeptical on much of what we think we know about history.

Many of today's scholars simply go on what they research from ancient "historians" and artifacts that rarely draw definitive conclusions.

How much of history is shaped by half-truths, lies, and outright fantasies?

[joswift]

History is written by the winers of wars
If Germany had won the war do you think anyone would know about the Holocaust?

[Les Grossman]

History is written by the winers of wars
If Germany had won the war do you think anyone would know about the Holocaust?

If Germany won the war it would not be called the holocaust, it would be called a military strategy

[oldtimer1]

History is revisionist history because of liberals. It's being changed to suit the liberal narrative.  Statues are being taken down. If you had slaves generations ago historic figures are being discredited. Hitler's party was the socialist party. Revisionist history spins this.  Liberal ideology are silencing opposing views using spin calling it fascist views. Fascists used propaganda and silenced opposing views through censorship, intimidation and violence.

[King Shizzo]

History is written by the winers of wars
If Germany had won the war do you think anyone would know about the Holocaust?

That's too recent. Even if Germany won, there were enough people to interview, and enough written accounts to tell a mostly complete story of World War 2.

I'm talking more about ancient history. I'm talking about historians (Roman, Greek, etc...)

That usually commented on things that happened hundreds of years before.

As much as I love it, history is more assumption, conjecture, and embellishment, than actual fact.

[Palumboism]

That's too recent. Even if Germany won, there were enough people to interview, and enough written accounts to tell a mostly complete story of World War 2.

I'm talking more about ancient history. I'm talking about historians (Roman, Greek, etc...)

That usually commented on things that happened hundreds of years before.

As much as I love it, history is more assumption, conjecture, and embellishment, than actual fact.

What about the works of Herodotus, Homer, Plato, and Aristotle? 

What about the Phonetician alphabet which was the forerunner of our modern alphabet?

[DanM]

What about the works of Herodotus, Homer, Plato, and Aristotle? 

What about the Phonetician alphabet which was the forerunner of our modern alphabet?

Just imagine how much gets lost in translation and misinterpretation

[Les Grossman]

Even as a history buff, I have to remain skeptical on much of what we think we know about history.

Many of today's scholars simply go on what they research from ancient "historians" and artifacts that rarely draw definitive conclusions.

How much of history is shaped by half-truths, lies, and outright fantasies?

Half-truths?

Like dying in a fake car accident?

Pound sand Fatzzo.

[King Shizzo]

Just imagine how much gets lost in translation and misinterpretation

Exactly.
Think about it, lots of powerful people likely influenced the narrative. Lots of scroll/book burnings, and lots of monks and scribes with plenty of time on their hands.

How many bible editions are there?

[Tapeworm]

I get what you're driving at. I've heard unpteen references to Herodotus, Pliny, and Vitruvius, but I often hear them made with cautions and caveats by lecturers qualifying the reliability of their sources.

Seeing as my history degree is internet acquired, I'm at the mercy of these guys not to take liberties and make with the requisite academic rigorosity. Then it's up to me to hear the tale from several sources and discern a consensus. Sift the wheat from the shaft.  Same as "google how do I change my car's oil?" You get good and bad.

Been away from the 'casts for awhile but I really enjoyed martyrmade pods. Years ago I discovered The Teaching Company and to this day have never given them a dime but I really, really should. I remember History On Fire as a little theatrical but worthwhile.

What's your favorite stuff? Help a Yeoman out.

[joswift]

Just imagine how much gets lost in translation and misinterpretation

the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima due to a mis translation...
https://pangeanic.com/knowledge/the-worst-translation-mistake-in-history/

[King Shizzo]

Half-truths?

Like dying in a fake car accident?

Pound sand Fatzzo.

There were no half-truths. I relied on historical texts from historian, Hehardforus.

A head-on collision.

[King Shizzo]

I get what you're driving at. I've heard unpteen references to Herodotus, Pliny, and Vitruvius, but I often hear them made with cautions and caveats by lecturers qualifying the reliability of their sources.

Seeing as my history degree is internet acquired, I'm at the mercy of these guys not to take liberties and make with the requisite academic rigorosity. Then it's up to me to hear the tale from several sources and discern a consensus. Sift the wheat from the shaft.  Same as "google how do I change my car's oil?" You get good and bad.

Been away from the 'casts for awhile but I really enjoyed martyrmade pods. Years ago I discovered The Teaching Company and to this day have never given them a dime but I really, really should. I remember History On Fire as a little theatrical but worthwhile.

What's your favorite stuff? Help a Yeoman out.

I'm honestly at an impasse, in regards to what I want to/should believe.

I can supposedly trace my maternal side of my family to multiple English Kings, including King Edward (Longshanks) of William Wallace and Braveheart fame.

I'm assuming almost everyone would be able to trace lineage to a "famous" person in history.

Gives the six degrees of Kevin Bacon some credence  after all.

[Thin Lizzy]

If you use Covid as a measuring stick, all of it.

[Tapeworm]

the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima due to a mis translation...
https://pangeanic.com/knowledge/the-worst-translation-mistake-in-history/

'Twasnt. We had it, the Russians didn't, and we showed them that we did. The Japs were ruthless bastards and we decided turnabout was fair play.

What you got there is some 'declassified' propaganda. White Hats would never intentionally kill vast numbers of civilians and commit the greatest war crime in history when the war was already won and overtures of surrender met deaf ears. Must be the translator's fault.

[King Shizzo]

'Twasnt. We had it, the Russians didn't, and we showed them that we did. The Japs were ruthless bastards and we decided turnabout was fair play.

What you got there is some 'declassified' propaganda. White Hats would never intentionally kill vast numbers of civilians and commit the greatest war crime in history when the war was already won and overtures of surrender met deaf ears. Must be the translator's fault.

You make my point, sir. Now imagine 500, 1000, 2000, and even 3000 years ago.

Do you honestly think that historians know even 1/10 of what actually happened in ancient Egypt?

I wonder if many of these ancient culture's writings were genuinely deciphered.

Cuiniform, Hieroglyphs, Mayan pictographs...

Are we just supposed to accept it?

[Tapeworm]

I'm honestly at an impasse, in regards to what I want to/should believe.

I can supposedly trace my maternal side of my family to multiple English Kings, including King Edward (Longshanks) of William Wallace and Braveheart fame.

I'm assuming almost everyone would be able to trace lineage to a "famous" person in history.

Gives the six degrees of Kevin Bacon some credence  after all.

Yeah well ain't nobody saying they came down from Eddie Shortshank.

Granny said Jefferson Davis was a relation. But, in listening to a CW history I discovered there was a pirate of the same name. I'm really honky but also really of a criminal temperament, so it's a toss up.

There's tons of quality history to be heard online for free, even without engaging in piracy. It's not irresponsible, revisionist nonsense. Good dudes will typically offer their credentials and methods for your consideration.

I could see particular issues being hard to make a decision about but there's no reason to regard Ancient History as a giant hoax or something. Still hope you'll recommend your favorite podcasts or books online etc for us.

[Dave D]

Exactly.
Think about it, lots of powerful people likely influenced the narrative. Lots of scroll/book burnings, and lots of monks and scribes with plenty of time on their hands.

How many bible editions are there?

How many editions of Webster’s dictionary are there?

I’m assuming you meant translations not editions, there’s a significant difference between those two words, but it’s a common mistake for a “history buff”.

Of course history is influenced by who ever is recording it. We see this today with current events. How different are the history books  you used in middle school compared to the books today?

Do you think your life has been shortchanged by the history you were taught? Would you be living a more fulfilling life?

[Van_Bilderass]

That's too recent. Even if Germany won, there were enough people to interview, and enough written accounts to tell a mostly complete story of World War 2.

Maybe but consider how people doubt even what happened with the recent US election. If you can't even prove current events to peoples' satisfaction...

Or take 9/11. Some people don't believe anything but some people believe everything, like the Jesus tale.

[Tapeworm]

If you want a down-the-middle, solid accounting of a topic begging for bias, martyrmade has like 20 hours of content on the establishment of Israel and the Arab opposition. Forgive his first 20 or so dramatic minutes. It's excellent.

One of the best overviews I've heard of Ancient Greece from the Persian to Peloponnesian Wars was also one of the first I heard and I was hooked. It was a lecturer from Yale, recorded by The Teaching Company.

Also from TTC, Great Ideas of Philosophy gives solid bones upon which our Western intellectual tradition hangs.

If you dig Rome, Spotify has the free History of Rome, which is kinda meandering but you get what you pay for. Spotify's The Great Philosophers by Bryan Magee is a wonderful series of interviews. Wish there were more. Gibbon's Decline and Fall is freely available on audio, usually in some painful toffee nosed public school accent, which is a hoot.

[obsidian]

That's too recent. Even if Germany won, there were enough people to interview, and enough written accounts to tell a mostly complete story of World War 2.

I'm talking more about ancient history. I'm talking about historians (Roman, Greek, etc...)

That usually commented on things that happened hundreds of years before.

As much as I love it, history is more assumption, conjecture, and embellishment, than actual fact.

No it's not. Even events from last year are a lie. Trump won the election.

WW1 and WW2 = Banker Wars
911 = Inside Job
JFK = Inside Job
2020 Presidential Election = Stolen via Fraud w/ help of Deep State

Go do some research. History should be taken with a grain of salt since it is written by the victor or those in power.

[King Shizzo]

Yeah well ain't nobody saying they came down from Eddie Shortshank.

Granny said Jefferson Davis was a relation. But, in listening to a CW history I discovered there was a pirate of the same name. I'm really honky but also really of a criminal temperament, so it's a toss up.

There's tons of quality history to be heard online for free, even without engaging in piracy. It's not irresponsible, revisionist nonsense. Good dudes will typically offer their credentials and methods for your consideration.

I could see particular issues being hard to make a decision about but there's no reason to regard Ancient History as a giant hoax or something. Still hope you'll recommend your favorite podcasts or books online etc for us.

I'll make it simple. We all came from Adam and Eve.

But there is no reason to regard history as a giant hoax or something.

What are credentials? A paid degree?

I can hypothesize anything I want as well.

Here is a nugget from the King: Unless you are a completely isolated tribe from an Island or a remote jungle, you are of mixed race.

[Tapeworm]

It's been said that the hallmark of a well developed intellect is the ability to entertain points of view which differ from one's own. Yet here I find myself, struggling to dismiss works, sight unseen, on the basis that their unknown contents are suspect by virtue of being unknown, making them unsuitable for knowing. I flounder.

Maybe things will go more smoothly if you tell us about your genealogy. Edward Longshanks, you say?

[Henda]

I'm honestly at an impasse, in regards to what I want to/should believe.

I can supposedly trace my maternal side of my family to multiple English Kings, including King Edward (Longshanks) of William Wallace and Braveheart fame.

I'm assuming almost everyone would be able to trace lineage to a "famous" person in history.

Gives the six degrees of Kevin Bacon some credence  after all.

Wasnt edwards son a faggot?

[Dave D]

It's been said that the hallmark of a well developed intellect is the ability to entertain points of view which differ from one's own. Yet here I find myself, struggling to dismiss works, sight unseen, on the basis that their unknown contents are suspect by virtue of being unknown, making them unsuitable for knowing. I flounder.

Maybe things will go more smoothly if you tell us about your genealogy. Edward Longshanks, you say?

I like what you're doing here.