Test Boosters? Pro-Hormones? or TRT?

[oldtimer1]

No one was on TRT in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even early 80's. It's a new thing to sell you drugs. I'm sure someone will spin this with some google information. No there wasn't anything called hormone replacement for decades for the masses only in specific circumstances. It's a recent thing. Guys will do it until they have prostate enlargement, heart attack or stroke. Then they will look like absoulute crap when a doc cuts them off because their own test will be shut down permanently from doing it for decades.

One of the treatments for an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer is drug castration where they give you a pill to cut off testosterone in your body. The reason why anabolic steroids were invented was because the Soviet lifters in the 50's had serious prostate issues from using a lot of testosterone. Drugs like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anadrol 50 and Anavar were invented to give a higher anabolic property of testosterone with mitigated androgen properties. The popular injectable back in the day was Deca.  When the feds started cracking down veterianarian drugs like Equipose and Winstrol V became wildly popular. On a side note these drugs are being counterfeited and not like the original drugs that came from a legit pharmaceutical lab in the US and sold through a pharmacy.  Packaging and inserts are the easiest to counterfiet.  I have no clue what the pros are taking today but they look soft, sick vascular and have a bloat look to them. Seriously looks unhealthy.

An endrocrinologist told me this.  If you want to increase your natural testosterone then get lean.  Being chubby decreases test and raises estrogen. It also causes test to aromatize to estrogen.

[Primemuscle]

No one was on TRT in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even early 80's. It's a new thing to sell you drugs. I'm sure someone will spin this with some google information. No there wasn't anything called hormone replacement for decades for the masses only in specific circumstances. It's a recent thing. Guys will do it until they have prostate enlargement, heart attack or stroke. Then they will look like absoulute crap when a doc cuts them off because their own test will be shut down permanently from doing it for decades.

One of the treatments for an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer is drug castration where they give you a pill to cut off testosterone in your body. The reason why anabolic steroids were invented was because the Soviet lifters in the 50's had serious prostate issues from using a lot of testosterone. Drugs like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anadrol 50 and Anavar were invented to give a higher anabolic property of testosterone with mitigated androgen properties. The popular injectable back in the day was Deca.  When the feds started cracking down veterianarian drugs like Equipose and Winstrol V became wildly popular. On a side note these drugs are being counterfeited and not like the original drugs that came from a legit pharmaceutical lab in the US and sold through a pharmacy.  Packaging and inserts are the easiest to counterfiet.  I have no clue what the pros are taking today but they look soft, sick vascular and have a bloat look to them. Seriously looks unhealthy.

An endrocrinologist told me this.  If you want to increase your natural testosterone then get lean.  Being chubby decreases test and raises estrogen. It also causes test to aromatize to estrogen.

No one? In 1961, I was on TRT and D-Bol all under a doctor's care. You did allow for special circumstances but you can't do that and still say it was no one.

[Dave D]

No one was on TRT in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even early 80's. It's a new thing to sell you drugs. I'm sure someone will spin this with some google information. No there wasn't anything called hormone replacement for decades for the masses only in specific circumstances. It's a recent thing. Guys will do it until they have prostate enlargement, heart attack or stroke. Then they will look like absoulute crap when a doc cuts them off because their own test will be shut down permanently from doing it for decades.

One of the treatments for an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer is drug castration where they give you a pill to cut off testosterone in your body. The reason why anabolic steroids were invented was because the Soviet lifters in the 50's had serious prostate issues from using a lot of testosterone. Drugs like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anadrol 50 and Anavar were invented to give a higher anabolic property of testosterone with mitigated androgen properties. The popular injectable back in the day was Deca.  When the feds started cracking down veterianarian drugs like Equipose and Winstrol V became wildly popular. On a side note these drugs are being counterfeited and not like the original drugs that came from a legit pharmaceutical lab in the US and sold through a pharmacy.  Packaging and inserts are the easiest to counterfiet.  I have no clue what the pros are taking today but they look soft, sick vascular and have a bloat look to them. Seriously looks unhealthy.

An endrocrinologist told me this.  If you want to increase your natural testosterone then get lean.  Being chubby decreases test and raises estrogen. It also causes test to aromatize to estrogen.

Of course it a new “trend” does that mean it’s worthless? Are there no benefits to legitimate  TRT? Does it improve your quality of life or only harm it?

[Notomorrow]

It really depends on WHY you would want to take testosterone. If it is for quality of life, at the expense of probably a bit shorter life, then do it. For example if you want a healthy sex drive and mild exercise/recovery benefits for an active lifestyle,  100mg-200mg per week will give you that and if monitored by a doctor your health should be fine. Yet testosterone works by activating the mTOR pathways for growth not just in muscle, but there are androgen receptors all over the body, including the heart, kidneys, prostate and some areas we haven't even researched yet. It makes a lot of things grow, not just muscle. It can grow something bad that is lurking in you that may not have revealed itself until your 70s. Or it may not. That's genetic. It really comes down to quality of life vs life extension. The "anti-aging" myth is pretty much over. Testosterone therapy does NOT increase lifespan with the rare exception of severe hypogonadism which can have bad heart effects. But few healthy men have this and if you haven't noticed it by late 50's, you probably don't have severe hypogonadism. So again, it's what you want out of life.

You want to play the high end slots and win or lose big, or the penny slots and play all night but never win or lose shit?

[IroNat]

It's all about dosage and risk.

If you actually have low test and stay within normal limits of TRT (100mg/week?) then negative side effects are probably minimal.

But if you are really a perfectly healthy 20-60 year old with normal test levels and use TRT as a legal way to GET HUGE then you are taking on excess risk.

I would say the majority of under 70 TRT users are in the GET HUGE category.

[Tom]

IronNat: good information, although I guess the confusing issue is what is the "normal" range anyway... i mean 300 to 1000 is a pretty large leeway?...

I, at 57, will be getting my TEST levels checked very soon, and I'm guessing at my age, OF COURSE, my TEST levels have gone down, but gone down from what? So those with truly low TEST levels at any age are those under 300? ANYONE and ANYTHING above 300 at any age is normal and okay? No need to supplement with TRT therapy?...

[IroNat]

IronNat: good information, although I guess the confusing issue is what is the "normal" range anyway... i mean 300 to 1000 is a pretty large leeway?...

I, at 57, will be getting my TEST levels checked very soon, and I'm guessing at my age, OF COURSE, my TEST levels have gone down, but gone down from what? So those with truly low TEST levels at any age are those under 300? ANYONE and ANYTHING above 300 at any age is normal and okay? No need to supplement with TRT therapy?...

You don't sound like you are having problems.  You sound like you want a shortcut to muscles.

If that is what you want consult your local gym pusher for anabolic steroids.  Ask the 'roiders at your gym to hook you up.

[Thin Lizzy]

This of course begs the question of why you’re still concerned with your arm being an inch bigger at your age. It’s not gonna get you 25 year old pussy.

[Van_Bilderass]

No one was on TRT in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even early 80's. It's a new thing to sell you drugs. I'm sure someone will spin this with some google information. No there wasn't anything called hormone replacement for decades for the masses only in specific circumstances. It's a recent thing. Guys will do it until they have prostate enlargement, heart attack or stroke. Then they will look like absoulute crap when a doc cuts them off because their own test will be shut down permanently from doing it for decades.

One of the treatments for an enlarged prostate or prostate cancer is drug castration where they give you a pill to cut off testosterone in your body. The reason why anabolic steroids were invented was because the Soviet lifters in the 50's had serious prostate issues from using a lot of testosterone. Drugs like Dianabol, Winstrol, Anadrol 50 and Anavar were invented to give a higher anabolic property of testosterone with mitigated androgen properties. The popular injectable back in the day was Deca.  When the feds started cracking down veterianarian drugs like Equipose and Winstrol V became wildly popular. On a side note these drugs are being counterfeited and not like the original drugs that came from a legit pharmaceutical lab in the US and sold through a pharmacy.  Packaging and inserts are the easiest to counterfiet.  I have no clue what the pros are taking today but they look soft, sick vascular and have a bloat look to them. Seriously looks unhealthy.

An endrocrinologist told me this.  If you want to increase your natural testosterone then get lean.  Being chubby decreases test and raises estrogen. It also causes test to aromatize to estrogen.

Most of what you say is false. You are still on about drugs being fake today. WTF do you think happens when bodybuilders go from doing 500mg of steroids to 5,000 all the way up to 10,000mg? You get what you see today. It's not fake drugs, it's more drugs. Modern bodybuilding physiques is what you get. Do you have eyes to see? Do you think Nick Walker looks like he does due to fake drugs? Really?
There has never been as many real steroids on the market as today. I could buy a million dollars worth of steroids within 48 hours if I wanted to. You think it was as easy in the 80s? It wasn't. Dealers had very small selections, today you can get anything you want in any quantity.

Knowledge of prostate enlargement has advanced from what you've heard. A low T level is enough to saturate all the receptors in the prostate and a higher level doesn't necessarily grow your prostate more. Furthermore, it's been found that other hormones like estrogen contribute to BPH. It's multifactorial.

You are right that anabolics were developed to make them more anabolic vs androgenic, essentially making them SARMs. But they were never able to dissociate those effects. I don't buy those stories of Russians not being able to piss without catheters or whatever the stories said. They weren't taking that much anyway.

[Van_Bilderass]

IronNat: good information, although I guess the confusing issue is what is the "normal" range anyway... i mean 300 to 1000 is a pretty large leeway?...

I, at 57, will be getting my TEST levels checked very soon, and I'm guessing at my age, OF COURSE, my TEST levels have gone down, but gone down from what? So those with truly low TEST levels at any age are those under 300? ANYONE and ANYTHING above 300 at any age is normal and okay? No need to supplement with TRT therapy?...

TRT is somewhat experimental. TRT blew up the last few years and long term effect data isn't in yet. The idea with TRT isn't necessarily to correct a pathology, most of the time it isn't. It's an attempt at creating increased quality of life, a supraphysiological man.

With testosterone, even with an oldschool endo, he will take into acccount how you feel at any given dose, he doesn't just treat numbers. Yes, 300 would be normal for a guy your age. And maybe you feel perfectly fine so what is he to treat? But modern TRT is for those who want more.

I still say you're never getting on TRT. You've heard enough answers but you are not satisfied. You want perfectly safe and you're never getting that.

[AbrahamG]

TRT is somewhat experimental. TRT blew up the last few years and long term effect data isn't in yet. The idea with TRT isn't necessarily to correct a pathology, most of the time it isn't. It's an attempt at creating increased quality of life, a supraphysiological man.

With testosterone, even with an oldschool endo, he will take into acccount how you feel at any given dose, he doesn't just treat numbers. Yes, 300 would be normal for a guy your age. And maybe you feel perfectly fine so what is he to treat? But modern TRT is for those who want more.

I still say you're never getting on TRT. You've heard enough answers but you are not satisfied. You want perfectly safe and you're never getting that.

@Tom - don't overthink this. Van, in a polite way is calling you a pussy. He's not wrong. Shit or get off the pot.

[oldtimer1]

No one? In 1961, I was on TRT and D-Bol all under a doctor's care. You did allow for special circumstances but you can't do that and still say it was no one.

Talking about the masses like today. How can you be on testerone replacement when you are taking dianabol? It doesn't make sense.  What makes sense is your were taking testosterone and dianabol for bodybuilding purposes. Did you actually test low for testosterone in in 1961?  Bet the average doctor didn't even have a lab that would test test levels in 1961.

[oldtimer1]

It's all about dosage and risk.

If you actually have low test and stay within normal limits of TRT (100mg/week?) then negative side effects are probably minimal.

But if you are really a perfectly healthy 20-60 year old with normal test levels and use TRT as a legal way to GET HUGE then you are taking on excess risk.

I would say the majority of under 70 TRT users are in the GET HUGE category.

Voice of reason. On a separate but related topic how many steroid users claim to use TRT when they get their vials of test and syringes from their steroid dealer? Then they take more test than any doctor would perscribe for low T.  The function of taking TRT is replacement therapy for those with hypogonaism. Not to jack your test over what it was when you were 30 years old.

[Kwon]

[Primemuscle]

It really depends on WHY you would want to take testosterone. If it is for quality of life, at the expense of probably a bit shorter life, then do it. For example if you want a healthy sex drive and mild exercise/recovery benefits for an active lifestyle,  100mg-200mg per week will give you that and if monitored by a doctor your health should be fine. Yet testosterone works by activating the mTOR pathways for growth not just in muscle, but there are androgen receptors all over the body, including the heart, kidneys, prostate and some areas we haven't even researched yet. It makes a lot of things grow, not just muscle. It can grow something bad that is lurking in you that may not have revealed itself until your 70s. Or it may not. That's genetic. It really comes down to quality of life vs life extension. The "anti-aging" myth is pretty much over. Testosterone therapy does NOT increase lifespan with the rare exception of severe hypogonadism which can have bad heart effects. But few healthy men have this and if you haven't noticed it by late 50's, you probably don't have severe hypogonadism. So again, it's what you want out of life.

You want to play the high end slots and win or lose big, or the penny slots and play all night but never win or lose shit?

TRT can improve a person's mood. Happy people tend you live longer.

[Thin Lizzy]

TRT can improve a person's mood. Happy people tend you live longer.

Yeah but as Van said, if he’s always worried about the side effects, from a mental standpoint that’s a decrease in quality of life.

[Primemuscle]

Talking about the masses like today. How can you be on testerone replacement when you are taking dianabol? It doesn't make sense.  What makes sense is your were taking testosterone and dianabol for bodybuilding purposes. Did you actually test low for testosterone in in 1961?  Bet the average doctor didn't even have a lab that would test test levels in 1961.

You are right, it was for bodybuilding purposes if you consider doctor prescribed weight-gain bodybuilding. BTW, I was not lifting weights at that time. My right testicle atrophied as a result of mumps orchitis, which sometimes causes hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. Blood testing lab work has been around since the 1940's. I honestly don't remember if the doctor ordered labs. He prescribed Dianabol @ 5 mg a day and a weekly injection of testosterone because I was quite a bit underweight for my age, despite having a very healthy appetite. I weighed 126 lbs. at 5' 11" tall. After a couple of months of this routine and a lot of food my weight increased to 144 lbs. I did another 6 week cycle when I was 18 and working out regularly. My weight increased to 180 lbs. Throughout my adult life my weight has mostly been between 165 - 180 lbs.

Anabolic steroids are legally prescribed for certain medical conditions, including a need to gain weight.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/anabolic-steroid-oral-route-parenteral-route/description/drg-20069323

[IroNat]

You are right, it was for bodybuilding purposes if you consider doctor prescribed weight-gain bodybuilding. BTW, I was not lifting weights at that time. My right testicle atrophied as a result of mumps orchitis, which sometimes causes hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. Blood testing lab work has been around since the 1940's. I honestly don't remember if the doctor ordered labs. He prescribed Dianabol @ 5 mg a day and a weekly injection of testosterone because I was quite a bit underweight for my age, despite having a very healthy appetite. I weighed 126 lbs. at 5' 11" tall. After a couple of months of this routine and a lot of food my weight increased to 144 lbs. I did another 6 week cycle when I was 18 and working out regularly. My weight increased to 180 lbs. Throughout my adult life my weight has mostly been between 165 - 180 lbs.

Anabolic steroids are legally prescribed for certain medical conditions, including a need to gain weight.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/anabolic-steroid-oral-route-parenteral-route/description/drg-20069323

Is this a doctor still in practice?

Can we get his name, phone number and address?

[Van_Bilderass]

There are a lot of unserious HRT clinics now too. Repackaged Chinese underground gear, sometimes seriously diluted, wrong dosage on label etc.

[Tom]

well i do plan on going to a actual doctor at a actual hospital to get my TEST levels checked.. This is the same doctor who has prescribed TRT to a acquaintance at my gym, whose 42 and been on it for a few years. Of course there are a few male vitality clinics nearby, the closest one charges 100 dollars for the whole TEST mark-up...Without knowing, I get the sense that these clinics are basically salespeople with needles?

a doctor at a hospital more legit?

speaking of getting your TEST levels checked, without knowing, do you need to have it done more than once to confirm the levels?

[joswift]

TRT can improve a person's mood. Happy people tend you live longer.

But time goes quicker when you are having fun

Best to be miserable, time lasts fucking ages.

[GymnJuice]

well i do plan on going to a actual doctor at a actual hospital to get my TEST levels checked.. This is the same doctor who has prescribed TRT to a acquaintance at my gym, whose 42 and been on it for a few years. Of course there are a few male vitality clinics nearby, the closest one charges 100 dollars for the whole TEST mark-up...Without knowing, I get the sense that these clinics are basically salespeople with needles?

a doctor at a hospital more legit?

speaking of getting your TEST levels checked, without knowing, do you need to have it done more than once to confirm the levels?

If it is a general practitioner who also manages your diabetes, hypertension etc and also is willing to give you testosterone then it's legit.  If it's an anti-aging clinic that's how they make money is by giving you what you want, so they'll screen for big red flags with scheduled bloodwork but they won't go digging deep into anything.

[Van_Bilderass]

a doctor at a hospital more legit?

speaking of getting your TEST levels checked, without knowing, do you need to have it done more than once to confirm the levels?

Do you want legit or do you want testosterone? A legit doc will not give you test if you are in range and don't have tons of complaints that could be related to testosterone. A legit doctor is also supposed to order a brain scan to make sure you don't have a brain tumor causing low test.

Modern TRT isn't about being normal and correcting a pathology. It's about going beyond normal and accepting the risks that come with it.

I recently wrote about a professor endocrinologist here in Sweden who said TRT is almost always negative and not needed. Almost no one has pathologically low testosterone. You can't go by numbers, even if low you might have excellent response to that low test. He said most TRT patients may feel good initially, for a few weeks, but then feel like shit on testosterone therapy. They get no energy, no increase in sex drive, only side effects. Then when TRT fails they end up as his patients and he has to correct the mess the clinics caused. I feel like this is the type of Dr you are looking for, who will assure you test is not a solution for whatever it is you're looking for.

In any case TRT isn't very physiological even if in normal range. It won't be higher in the morning vs at night. Your test doesn't tank if you experience disappointment, stress, lose a tennis match or smell women's tears. Yes, the smell of women's tears tanks a normal man's test 

Voice of reason. On a separate but related topic how many steroid users claim to use TRT when they get their vials of test and syringes from their steroid dealer? Then they take more test than any doctor would perscribe for low T.  The function of taking TRT is replacement therapy for those with hypogonaism. Not to jack your test over what it was when you were 30 years old.

Many bodybuilders have a legit TRT script even if they cycle black market gear. The reason should be obvious. The script can come handy, for example if you need some gear with you when you travel, if you get sent to jail, you need to explain high test levels for whatever reason. I believe ESFitness said he was given his test shots even while in prison.

[ThisisOverload]

 

I've watched both of these at least 20 times already.

[OlympiaGym]

Have been on “enhanced TRT” with Deca for going on almost a decade now. Every single one of my health markers is within normal limits except for my BP which I treat with a water pill. I have blood work, EKGs, calcium score tests, etc. regularly. My primary care MD, who is at least 10 years younger, tells me he wishes he had my test scores. I am far from huge but it’s evident I lift and I feel amazing. Maybe I’ll drop dead tomorrow but I’m well insured and I wouldn’t do anything differently. The scare mongers on here all speak from zero personal experience and usually very little actual knowledge.