Author Topic: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?  (Read 16995 times)

chaos

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2008, 07:52:39 PM »
whos on each side im used to be on the winning team
I don't know, I just joined this thread. Pretty boring really, a bunch of "what ifs".......I'm out.
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SinCitysmallGUY

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2008, 08:04:46 PM »
In 2006 he opened his training to the general public for like 10 bucks a pop I think. If I remember correctly he fought some under publicized fight because he was broke.

http://boxing.about.com/b/2006/10/21/tyson-and-sanders-go-a-boring-four.htm

Yeah it was in Vegas, we lived there and I went and watched. It was Tyson shadow boxing and hitting mitts. It was a fucking joke. We didn't even pay to watch it for the 15 minutes or so that we stayed. He boxed a guy in a exhibition match. The guy was paid to be Tyson's punching bag. It was shit I watched that fight to.

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2008, 08:09:10 PM »
lol i love how people say if he shoots him its over. 

have any of yous ever been in a street fight the second he tries to shoot dont you think he could knee him in the the head or better yet punch him in the head  and that would end it right there.

Don't you think if kneeing someone to end it was that easy that shooting wouldn't work in the ring? I would think if that techniuqe of yours was that effective then double legs and singles wouldn't be trained...

Captain Equipoise

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2008, 11:43:05 PM »
Don't you think if kneeing someone to end it was that easy that shooting wouldn't work in the ring? I would think if that techniuqe of yours was that effective then double legs and singles wouldn't be trained...

It's a calculated risk that anyone shooting takes... it's about timing, if you do it right you'll knock the guys cause his whole head is open, if you're miscalculate you'll be on the ground... but then again with someone as crazy and powerful as Tyson I don't think you'd be able to mount, he'd be feeding serious jabs from the ground..

Pecs

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2008, 01:19:51 AM »
....."IF" prime Tyson were to enter UFC after 1 year of MMA training, he should be able to achieve a decent win-loss record but he will never be a hall of famer...... :-*

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2008, 08:29:16 AM »
Who gives a FUCK! ;D
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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2008, 12:55:24 AM »
Let me break this down for the fighting experts on GB.  A power puncher gets his power by setting his feet.  This is THE WORST thing to do against a good wrestler with a good single, double, high crotch, ankle pick.  Tyson was not exactly known for fast footwork, particularly lateral foot work.  The minute he plants his feet to throw a punch, the wrestler will change levels, enter with a penetrating step and Tyson would be too off balanced to throw a punch of consequence.  You think Iron Mike can sprawl?  You think he knows what the heck a cross face is, or to secure underhooks.  How's his whizzer?  Inside foot trip?  He'd be on his back so fast, then someone would be breaking a limb off of him.

FMSR thinks his kid PBFJr is crazy to think about fighting MMA?  I wonder why?  Rick Roufus, a stand up fighter entered a Strikeforce event after six months of MMA training.  Guess what, he got subbed by Maurice Smith, another striker who EASILY took him to the ground. 

Did Iron Mike KO all of his opponents within a minute?  Watch his fights, was he ever in the clinch with anyone?  Once a boxer gets tied up in the clinch, the ref intervenes and seperates them.  Why?  Because the rules of engagement calls for it.  A good Greco, Muay Thai fighter (Bluto can confirm this) or Judoka would have him eating knees, on his back easily. 

There is a video floating around of Jeremy "Half Man/Half Amazing" Williams throwing Lennox Lewis around in a sparring session.  Lennox is getting mad that his sparring partner, a judo black belt, professional boxer is doing this.  And this is to the guy who DESTROYED Tyson.  Boxers box, they are not made for MMA. 

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2008, 08:40:07 AM »
Let me break this down for the fighting experts on GB.  A power puncher gets his power by setting his feet.  This is THE WORST thing to do against a good wrestler with a good single, double, high crotch, ankle pick.  Tyson was not exactly known for fast footwork, particularly lateral foot work.  The minute he plants his feet to throw a punch, the wrestler will change levels, enter with a penetrating step and Tyson would be too off balanced to throw a punch of consequence.  You think Iron Mike can sprawl?  You think he knows what the heck a cross face is, or to secure underhooks.  How's his whizzer?  Inside foot trip?  He'd be on his back so fast, then someone would be breaking a limb off of him.

FMSR thinks his kid PBFJr is crazy to think about fighting MMA?  I wonder why?  Rick Roufus, a stand up fighter entered a Strikeforce event after six months of MMA training.  Guess what, he got subbed by Maurice Smith, another striker who EASILY took him to the ground. 

Did Iron Mike KO all of his opponents within a minute?  Watch his fights, was he ever in the clinch with anyone?  Once a boxer gets tied up in the clinch, the ref intervenes and seperates them.  Why?  Because the rules of engagement calls for it.  A good Greco, Muay Thai fighter (Bluto can confirm this) or Judoka would have him eating knees, on his back easily. 

There is a video floating around of Jeremy "Half Man/Half Amazing" Williams throwing Lennox Lewis around in a sparring session.  Lennox is getting mad that his sparring partner, a judo black belt, professional boxer is doing this.  And this is to the guy who DESTROYED Tyson.  Boxers box, they are not made for MMA. 

it is quite unbelievable that you think prime tyson didn't have good footwork, especially when compared to anything you've seen in mma comps, which is like comparing fillet mignon to burnt barbecued sausages. ;D

you mention his lack of skill in 'lateral movement'... ;D ;D ;D ;D lmfao...seriously, you must be joking, right?

obviously you have never competed in an mma comp. at least of any great importance, because to underestimate stand-up is suicide. think logically about this abd. if it was so easy to shoot in on a prime striker, why doesn't everyone just do that? why do fighters spend more time standing up than shooting in? how many opponents did you see just shooting in 'easily' on a prime belfort (who wasn't a great sprawler at his peak. his prime weapons were hands, footwork and, to a much lesser extent, bjj)? there are many many ufc fighters that are much better wrestlers and grapplers at lt. heavy than chuck, so why don't they just shoot in??? wouldn't they win easily due to their superior wrestling skills?

now, take chuck and belfort at their respective primes and x 1 million = prime tyson. i still can't get over your comments on tyson's footwork and lateral movement. you really have no idea do you? i once thought you were knowledgeable. seems all you know is bjj. :-\

yes, lennox lewis did get taken down in sparring as anyone would ie couture, fedor, ANYONE that thought they were boxing sparring.

lewis was grabbing on and working inside (a little lazily too...might have been late in session). of course, merely some judo skills would do the trick in that instance. again, you show your ignorance of mma by even mentioning this. btw, prime tyson didn't like sitting inside at all and he wasn't particularly good at it. he needed to create medium distance to allow his crisp uppercuts and left hooks, overhand rights, body rips, etc to take effect. of course NO ONE ever in ufc or pride has ever seen or, more importantly, felt the speed, power, timing and precision that these shots are going to detonate on their person and, with 5 ounce gloves.... :'(

 

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2008, 09:01:04 PM »
americanbulldog = pwned.

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2008, 01:27:52 AM »
it is quite unbelievable that you think prime tyson didn't have good footwork, especially when compared to anything you've seen in mma comps, which is like comparing fillet mignon to burnt barbecued sausages. ;D

you mention his lack of skill in 'lateral movement'... ;D ;D ;D ;D lmfao...seriously, you must be joking, right?

obviously you have never competed in an mma comp. at least of any great importance, because to underestimate stand-up is suicide. think logically about this abd. if it was so easy to shoot in on a prime striker, why doesn't everyone just do that? why do fighters spend more time standing up than shooting in? how many opponents did you see just shooting in 'easily' on a prime belfort (who wasn't a great sprawler at his peak. his prime weapons were hands, footwork and, to a much lesser extent, bjj)? there are many many ufc fighters that are much better wrestlers and grapplers at lt. heavy than chuck, so why don't they just shoot in??? wouldn't they win easily due to their superior wrestling skills?

now, take chuck and belfort at their respective primes and x 1 million = prime tyson. i still can't get over your comments on tyson's footwork and lateral movement. you really have no idea do you? i once thought you were knowledgeable. seems all you know is bjj. :-\

yes, lennox lewis did get taken down in sparring as anyone would ie couture, fedor, ANYONE that thought they were boxing sparring.

lewis was grabbing on and working inside (a little lazily too...might have been late in session). of course, merely some judo skills would do the trick in that instance. again, you show your ignorance of mma by even mentioning this. btw, prime tyson didn't like sitting inside at all and he wasn't particularly good at it. he needed to create medium distance to allow his crisp uppercuts and left hooks, overhand rights, body rips, etc to take effect. of course NO ONE ever in ufc or pride has ever seen or, more importantly, felt the speed, power, timing and precision that these shots are going to detonate on their person and, with 5 ounce gloves.... :'(

 

Tyson used Cus patented peek a boo style, hands up, chin down, elbows in the ribs bobbing and weaving.  He used his jab as a probe, would slip inside or outside and throw BODYSHOTS.  What made his peek a boo defense sooo effective was the size of the gloves (sixteen ouncers are better than five), the strength of his neck and how tight he could keep his elbows glued to his ribs.  Where was Mike's great circular or side to side footwork when he fought Mitch Green?  Exposed, hardly, just didn't match up well with Blood. 

Chuck is hardly what I would consider an elite MMA striker.  I used him simply because someone pontificated how Tyson's sprawl and takedown defense could be as good as him.  Hardly.  Just like Chuck would get killed by Iron Mike in a boxing match.  Apples to oranges.  Who was the great heavyweights Mike beat?  Razor Ruddock?  Trevor Berbick?  Terrell Biggs?  When he finally fought a boxer who could box, keep him at range, we saw him stuffing his mouthpiece into his mouth and loopy.  That fighter was champ for only one year, and was embarassed by a juiced up light heavy. 

Did Tyson have power in both hands, yes.  Could he have transitioned to MMA as easily as you pontificate?  No.  Never fought MMA, did a couple of smokers and have had the opportunity to train with a lot of top guys.  Egan could take Kaheke Alexio down at will, and he was not, nor is not top drawer wrestler.  Kevin Randleman would have no trouble getting Tyson into the clinch, and take him down to GNP him for a TKO.  ANY top wrestling based MMA fighter would love to have a shot at a stand up only fighter like Tyson.  BTW, how well did Melvin Manhoef do when he crossed over?  Peter Aerts?  Stephen Leko?  Mo Smith won the UFC title, but he is a .500 fighter.  If he didn't learn the half guard game from TK he prolly would have a .250 win percentage.  His game was to stall for the stand up.  Name me one top fighter in MMA who relies strictly on his stand up game, and then to top it off, have no takedown defense, or clinch skills.  That would be Iron Mike. 

The reason so much time is spent in the stand up is because all fighters have takedown defense.  You must not have competed at a very high level in MMA, now have you?  We spend 20 minutes EACH practice on wrestling, and I train at a BJJ academy.  So tell me again how Iron Mike would prevent the clinch, then defend the takedown when he has shown no proclivity to do this? 

BTW, was Bas, an elite level striker WITH takedown defense taken down in the cage against TK?  Did Kevin Randleman take Bas down at will?  Was Nog able to get a takedown against an elite level striker like Mirko in the ring, against a fighter with GREAT takedown defense.  You mention that Fedor would be taken down, guess what, Fedor can and will fight off his back.  How many fights has he ended while in guard?  Does Mike Tyson have a good closed guard game?  A half guard game?  An open guard game?  Butterfly you say?  Oh, thats right, he is a one dimensional striker with no kicking game, no clinch game, no wrestling, no ground, just phenomenal punching.  And with that, he'd dominate in MMA?  I THINK NOT. 

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2008, 05:03:37 PM »
Tyson used Cus patented peek a boo style, hands up, chin down, elbows in the ribs bobbing and weaving.  He used his jab as a probe, would slip inside or outside and throw BODYSHOTS.  What made his peek a boo defense sooo effective was the size of the gloves (sixteen ouncers are better than five), the strength of his neck and how tight he could keep his elbows glued to his ribs.  Where was Mike's great circular or side to side footwork when he fought Mitch Green?  Exposed, hardly, just didn't match up well with Blood. 

Chuck is hardly what I would consider an elite MMA striker.  I used him simply because someone pontificated how Tyson's sprawl and takedown defense could be as good as him.  Hardly.  Just like Chuck would get killed by Iron Mike in a boxing match.  Apples to oranges.  Who was the great heavyweights Mike beat?  Razor Ruddock?  Trevor Berbick?  Terrell Biggs?  When he finally fought a boxer who could box, keep him at range, we saw him stuffing his mouthpiece into his mouth and loopy.  That fighter was champ for only one year, and was embarassed by a juiced up light heavy. 

Did Tyson have power in both hands, yes.  Could he have transitioned to MMA as easily as you pontificate?  No.  Never fought MMA, did a couple of smokers and have had the opportunity to train with a lot of top guys.  Egan could take Kaheke Alexio down at will, and he was not, nor is not top drawer wrestler.  Kevin Randleman would have no trouble getting Tyson into the clinch, and take him down to GNP him for a TKO.  ANY top wrestling based MMA fighter would love to have a shot at a stand up only fighter like Tyson.  BTW, how well did Melvin Manhoef do when he crossed over?  Peter Aerts?  Stephen Leko?  Mo Smith won the UFC title, but he is a .500 fighter.  If he didn't learn the half guard game from TK he prolly would have a .250 win percentage.  His game was to stall for the stand up.  Name me one top fighter in MMA who relies strictly on his stand up game, and then to top it off, have no takedown defense, or clinch skills.  That would be Iron Mike. 

The reason so much time is spent in the stand up is because all fighters have takedown defense.  You must not have competed at a very high level in MMA, now have you?  We spend 20 minutes EACH practice on wrestling, and I train at a BJJ academy.  So tell me again how Iron Mike would prevent the clinch, then defend the takedown when he has shown no proclivity to do this? 

BTW, was Bas, an elite level striker WITH takedown defense taken down in the cage against TK?  Did Kevin Randleman take Bas down at will?  Was Nog able to get a takedown against an elite level striker like Mirko in the ring, against a fighter with GREAT takedown defense.  You mention that Fedor would be taken down, guess what, Fedor can and will fight off his back.  How many fights has he ended while in guard?  Does Mike Tyson have a good closed guard game?  A half guard game?  An open guard game?  Butterfly you say?  Oh, thats right, he is a one dimensional striker with no kicking game, no clinch game, no wrestling, no ground, just phenomenal punching.  And with that, he'd dominate in MMA?  I THINK NOT. 

you are a fighting idiot savante.

perhaps i should just point out your direct errors since, with your lack of general fighting knowledge, it is pointless to continue with anything else.

1. pro boxers have NEVER used 16oz gloves at a sanctioned bout...EVER. 10oz gloves are the norm and, as pointed out to you, it is widely known that a 5oz grappling glove is going to = more damage than a 10oz glove that prime tyson typically used.

2. tyrell biggs was a heavyweight olympic gold medalist in boxing. your assertion that he didn't know how to box merely points further to your delusion and ignorance, especially when, in the same post you refer to bas ruten (who wouldn't win a club tournament) as an 'elite striker' ;D

3. i can understand your lack of knowledge on striking arts but your assertion that ma fighters spend the majority of time standing up because they know how to sprawl is illogical and obtuse. if that was the case, why wouldn't the best shoot wrestlers simply shoot in all day until they beat the weaker grappler? oh shit, that's right, because they don't want to get tagged coming in. ::)

4. prime tyson had poor footwork and lateral movement? hmmm, any boxing expert will tell you that tyson's footwork and lateral movement were far far greater than ANYTHING we've ever seen at an mma contest. tyson was widely renowned for his lateral movement. it was exactly why he was so elusive for a short heavyweight and the basis for his angular attacks. he was taught by an expert that makes any trainer in mma look like your high school phys ed teacher and he became the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world because of it....but then, if tyson was so good why would he become a huge box office draw making 100s of millions dollars when he could make chump change playing with dana white and the trailer trash kids... ::)


americanbulldog

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2008, 11:15:42 PM »
you are a fighting idiot savante.

perhaps i should just point out your direct errors since, with your lack of general fighting knowledge, it is pointless to continue with anything else.

1. pro boxers have NEVER used 16oz gloves at a sanctioned bout...EVER. 10oz gloves are the norm and, as pointed out to you, it is widely known that a 5oz grappling glove is going to = more damage than a 10oz glove that prime tyson typically used.

2. tyrell biggs was a heavyweight olympic gold medalist in boxing. your assertion that he didn't know how to box merely points further to your delusion and ignorance, especially when, in the same post you refer to bas ruten (who wouldn't win a club tournament) as an 'elite striker' ;D

3. i can understand your lack of knowledge on striking arts but your assertion that ma fighters spend the majority of time standing up because they know how to sprawl is illogical and obtuse. if that was the case, why wouldn't the best shoot wrestlers simply shoot in all day until they beat the weaker grappler? oh shit, that's right, because they don't want to get tagged coming in. ::)

4. prime tyson had poor footwork and lateral movement? hmmm, any boxing expert will tell you that tyson's footwork and lateral movement were far far greater than ANYTHING we've ever seen at an mma contest. tyson was widely renowned for his lateral movement. it was exactly why he was so elusive for a short heavyweight and the basis for his angular attacks. he was taught by an expert that makes any trainer in mma look like your high school phys ed teacher and he became the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world because of it....but then, if tyson was so good why would he become a huge box office draw making 100s of millions dollars when he could make chump change playing with dana white and the trailer trash kids... ::)



Name me a great fighter Biggs beat.  Yes he won an olympic Gold (Tyson did not), but who did he beat?  Good amateur, so so pro. 

Roberto Duran, when he fought in Pancrase was taken down and submitted quickly.  He was as good, if not a better fighter than Tyson, particularly when he fought at Lightweight.  He dominated the lightweights and even won titles in junior middleweight and welterweight.  When you are a one trick pony, which Tyson would be, you get exposed quickly. 

Tyson won in dramatic fashion during a time there was NO DISCERNABLE fighter near his caliber.  Many a boxing afficianado said what would take to beat Tyson is a boxer who could use length, the jab, tie up Tyson and frustrate him ala Ali.  Guess what, someone did that and it was Buster Douglas, hardly Ali. 

Lightweight Champ:  BJ Penn,  DESTROYED Bang Ludwig, a world class muay thai fighter by taking him down and submitting him. 

Welterweight Champ:  Matt Serra, world class submission fighter with heavy hands.  NOT primarilly a striker

Middleweight Champ:  Anderson Silva, world class striker with BJJ and good takedown defense.  (The switch he pulled on Marquardt was text book wrestling)

Lightheavyweight Champ:  Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, wrestler, with decent striking skills. 

Heavyweight Champ:  Big Nog, good boxer, world class BJJ player.

Where is the striking first champion?  Does not exist.  And a pure striker like Tyson would not be able to win at MMA.  That is why they are two seperate sports.  Could he be good?  Yes.  Would he dominate like he did when he was "Kid Dynamite?"  No. 

danielson

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2008, 04:45:58 AM »
The problem Mike would have is everyone knows the blueprint on how to beat him...
E

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2008, 08:39:05 PM »
A 20 year old Mike Tyson would have fucked some people up!! He had the neck of a bull and the power of one as well not to mention his speed!! If he hit you with the ufc gloves instead of a 16oz glove damn!! He probably would have broken his hands several times!!
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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #89 on: March 01, 2008, 09:06:22 PM »
A 20 year old Mike Tyson would have fucked some people up!! He had the neck of a bull and the power of one as well not to mention his speed!! If he hit you with the ufc gloves instead of a 16oz glove damn!! He probably would have broken his hands several times!!

exactly

this is when tyson was motivated and interested in his craft as opposed to the latter version that spent more time just walking in and banging because he no longer gave a fuck.

i really don't see how people think you are just going to shoot in on one of the best strikers of all time with no fear of getting tagged coming in. ::)

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2008, 09:53:19 PM »
exactly

this is when tyson was motivated and interested in his craft as opposed to the latter version that spent more time just walking in and banging because he no longer gave a fuck.

i really don't see how people think you are just going to shoot in on one of the best strikers of all time with no fear of getting tagged coming in. ::)

True most guys have to take a shot to get their opponet down! It would be hard to take some of his punches especially with those smaller gloves! I'm talking a prime young Mike Tyson!!
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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2008, 07:27:28 AM »
True most guys have to take a shot to get their opponet down! It would be hard to take some of his punches especially with those smaller gloves! I'm talking a prime young Mike Tyson!!

thing is, NOBODY just shoots in any more with the present top flight ma comps.

last guy i saw in an ma comp just using primarily shoot was kerr and don't forget 1. he was extremely quick (probably the most explosive and powerful shooter i've ever seen) 2. he was taking heavy doses of morphine and other pain killers to cope with eating strikes on the way in and 3. (most importantly) he NEVER faced a striker anywhere close to the timing, accuracy, power, balance and speed of foot and hand. no way on god's green earth would kerr shoot in on prime tyson with ease. no chance. no amount of morphine or steroids can stop your brain telling you it's time to go to sleep. tyson had perfectly timed and placed uppercuts, hooks, power in both hands, lateral movement (most striking opponents to kerr were straight ahead and up and down heavy weight kick boxers = lunch meat for kerr where one foot in air just meant easier take down..

i totally agree (as i have previously stated) that tyson is dead on the ground with a good grappler, but the theory that you just walk in and take prime tyson down is typical 5:30pm class bjj propoganda. the only guys i ever here completely dismissing a phenom like tyson are the delusional 3 times a week bjj champs that have never been in a full contact bout in their lives. they get deluded by their own hype.

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Re: How would Mike Tyson do if he was in the UFC in his prime?
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2008, 05:14:06 PM »
thing is, NOBODY just shoots in any more with the present top flight ma comps.

last guy i saw in an ma comp just using primarily shoot was kerr and don't forget 1. he was extremely quick (probably the most explosive and powerful shooter i've ever seen) 2. he was taking heavy doses of morphine and other pain killers to cope with eating strikes on the way in and 3. (most importantly) he NEVER faced a striker anywhere close to the timing, accuracy, power, balance and speed of foot and hand. no way on god's green earth would kerr shoot in on prime tyson with ease. no chance. no amount of morphine or steroids can stop your brain telling you it's time to go to sleep. tyson had perfectly timed and placed uppercuts, hooks, power in both hands, lateral movement (most striking opponents to kerr were straight ahead and up and down heavy weight kick boxers = lunch meat for kerr where one foot in air just meant easier take down..

i totally agree (as i have previously stated) that tyson is dead on the ground with a good grappler, but the theory that you just walk in and take prime tyson down is typical 5:30pm class bjj propoganda. the only guys i ever here completely dismissing a phenom like tyson are the delusional 3 times a week bjj champs that have never been in a full contact bout in their lives. they get deluded by their own hype.

Thank you!!! exactly what I've been trying to say this whole thread...
Prime Tyson had the mindset of a killer... this was warfare to him, he wasn't there to win, he was there to destroy.

Good luck not going down when Tyson hits you with a left or right hook on your way to shoot in... lol, the bout will be over by vicious knockout cause there's no way in hell you'll be getting up again.